Despite the blown leads....

[nickagneta]

Question: if LeBron had driven to the hole and tied the game with 3 seconds left instead of trying to win the game on a questionable three point attempt and the Cavs won in overtime would this thread even be here?

LeBron's "Tony Allen" brain freeze decision to stop playing smart, intelligent basketball at that point lost the Cavs the game. The C's were lucky to come away with that win after yet another epic collapse.

  Did anyone think that LeBron was going to pass up the three in that situation? It's not a brain freeze, it's how he plays. And the only reason they had a chance at that point was that nonsensical goaltending call.

I thought he'd take it to the hole.

I thought that the intelligent play.

Fast break opportunity, the C's on their heals, LeBron had been awful from outside in the game and phenomenal taking it to the basket, the refs were giving him all sorts of leeway after calling a technical on him, they were only down by two and had all the momentum.

Smart basketball dictates you go rim. I thought that a stupid play and no amount of counter debate is going to convince me otherwise.

Not to mention, Tony Allen (I am pretty sure thats who it was) was backpeddling, getting ready to foul him, making the 3-point play opportunity innevitable if he took it to the rim.

I thought taking that 3 was one of the most boneheaded, non-Tony Allen plays I have ever seen.

TP4U

Me 2

[FallGuy]

TP nick.

Average teams get up by a lot then let the game be decided essentially by a 50/50 coin flip at the end.

Great teams don't let other teams close the gap.

Any team can get up by a large margin at some point.

And any team can win if the game comes down to the buzzer.

Only great teams can consistently win in comfort.

There's no evidence "clutch" exists. Run the numbers on someone like Kobe, allegedly the great fourth quarter clutch player of our generation. He comes up decidedly average.

This is why margin of victory is one of the best predictors of success. The 07-08 Celtics mauled teams all season. And won the title. This year's team squeaks out wins against everyone. Not championship calibre, unfortunately.

I agree, that's what i was trying to say. Look at what i said: it's the average teams that lets the game come down to the wire. It's the great teams that get up by double digits AND WIN BY DOUBLE DIGITS.

If there were a team that was always within 1 point (up or down) with one minute to go, they'd probably finish 41-41 on the season. And if they were "clutch" and finished 46-36, they'd be just as likely to finish 36-46 the next season (if they kept the same players) as duplicate the success.


So that's what I said:
-If the game comes down to the wire, anyone can beat anyone...doesn't have anything to do with "clutch."

-Any team can get up by double digits on any other team in any given game. The GREAT teams do it frequently...and WIN by those amounts.

We agree here. Wasn't trying to contradict you.

I think most others would disagree with us though.

[Fan from VT]

TP nick.

Average teams get up by a lot then let the game be decided essentially by a 50/50 coin flip at the end.

Great teams don't let other teams close the gap.

Any team can get up by a large margin at some point.

And any team can win if the game comes down to the buzzer.

Only great teams can consistently win in comfort.

There's no evidence "clutch" exists. Run the numbers on someone like Kobe, allegedly the great fourth quarter clutch player of our generation. He comes up decidedly average.

This is why margin of victory is one of the best predictors of success. The 07-08 Celtics mauled teams all season. And won the title. This year's team squeaks out wins against everyone. Not championship calibre, unfortunately.

I agree, that's what i was trying to say. Look at what i said: it's the average teams that lets the game come down to the wire. It's the great teams that get up by double digits AND WIN BY DOUBLE DIGITS.

If there were a team that was always within 1 point (up or down) with one minute to go, they'd probably finish 41-41 on the season. And if they were "clutch" and finished 46-36, they'd be just as likely to finish 36-46 the next season (if they kept the same players) as duplicate the success.


So that's what I said:
-If the game comes down to the wire, anyone can beat anyone...doesn't have anything to do with "clutch."

-Any team can get up by double digits on any other team in any given game. The GREAT teams do it frequently...and WIN by those amounts.

We agree here. Wasn't trying to contradict you.

I think most others would disagree with us though.

gotcha.

[youcanthandlethetruth113]

Am I the only one who feels good about the fact that this team has the ability to go up BIG even on the best team in the league? We've gone up big on just about every team we've played this season. The talent to win it all is still there. If Doc can make some adjustments at the end of games to finish these teams off, i really like our chances.

I"m optimistic.

I think the blown leads are simply a result in a change of pace.

When we go up big Rondo starts walking the ball up the floor as opposed to running full-speed for the potential of easier buckets.

I think the playoffs and actually having your season on the line will be the only motivation this team requires in order to play a full 48.

It also comforts me a great deal knowing how good we are on the road - especially this season.

Couple the talent with the swagger and the big stage and I think we're going to see a team that's gelling, shooting well, rebounding the way we're used to in years past, and challenging everything come playoff time.

At least that's what I keep telling myself.

[Fred Roberts]

We just beat the best team in basketball. We've also beaten the second best team (Lakers) and Orlando and Dallas and Denver and so on. I don't care that much if it was home, away, when players were hurt, sick or whatever. There are many good wins, including yesterday's.

We are not rock solid. That's why this season has been a bummer to many C's fans. But we still beat many if not all of the best teams, to prove to ourselves that we have a shot to beat the best in the playoffs. It may not happen, but it is not impossible.

I am happy about yesterday's win. No lead is ever safe, especially against the top teams and top players.

[vinnie]

We just beat the best team in basketball. We've also beaten the second best team (Lakers) and Orlando and Dallas and Denver and so on. I don't care that much if it was home, away, when players were hurt, sick or whatever. There are many good wins, including yesterday's.

We are not rock solid. That's why this season has been a bummer to many C's fans. But we still beat many if not all of the best teams, to prove to ourselves that we have a shot to beat the best in the playoffs. It may not happen, but it is not impossible.

I am happy about yesterday's win. No lead is ever safe, especially against the top teams and top players.

They finished the season 3-9 against the Cavs, Magic and Hawks, proving they can also lose many times against the best teams.

[BballTim]

We just beat the best team in basketball. We've also beaten the second best team (Lakers) and Orlando and Dallas and Denver and so on. I don't care that much if it was home, away, when players were hurt, sick or whatever. There are many good wins, including yesterday's.

We are not rock solid. That's why this season has been a bummer to many C's fans. But we still beat many if not all of the best teams, to prove to ourselves that we have a shot to beat the best in the playoffs. It may not happen, but it is not impossible.

I am happy about yesterday's win. No lead is ever safe, especially against the top teams and top players.

They finished the season 3-9 against the Cavs, Magic and Hawks, proving they can also lose many times against the best teams.

  So they can beat the best teams or lose to them. I'd say that pretty much sums it up.

[jdpapa3]

I think he pulled up because he was scared to take free throws. I thank him for that.

I mentioned this in the game thread, but would it be a good idea for Perk to fake an injury next time he had to go to the line during a critical moment?

Shelden's a career 73% ft shooter.
Tony Allen 73%
Daniels 72%
Baby 69%
Perkins 60%

I had very little faith with him at the line.

[BballTim]

I think he pulled up because he was scared to take free throws. I thank him for that.

I mentioned this in the game thread, but would it be a good idea for Perk to fake an injury next time he had to go to the line during a critical moment?

Shelden's a career 73% ft shooter.
Tony Allen 73%
Daniels 72%
Baby 69%
Perkins 60%

I had very little faith with him at the line.

  Doesn't that mean he can't return to the game?

[jdpapa3]

I think he pulled up because he was scared to take free throws. I thank him for that.

I mentioned this in the game thread, but would it be a good idea for Perk to fake an injury next time he had to go to the line during a critical moment?

Shelden's a career 73% ft shooter.
Tony Allen 73%
Daniels 72%
Baby 69%
Perkins 60%

I had very little faith with him at the line.

  Doesn't that mean he can't return to the game?

Yea, it does. But up 2 with 10 seconds left in the game, you would hope anyone else would be able to hit 1/2 and force the other team to hit a 3 or continue the fouling game. Perk not really needed in that situation.

[BballTim]

I think he pulled up because he was scared to take free throws. I thank him for that.

I mentioned this in the game thread, but would it be a good idea for Perk to fake an injury next time he had to go to the line during a critical moment?

Shelden's a career 73% ft shooter.
Tony Allen 73%
Daniels 72%
Baby 69%
Perkins 60%

I had very little faith with him at the line.

  Doesn't that mean he can't return to the game?

Yea, it does. But up 2 with 10 seconds left in the game, you would hope anyone else would be able to hit 1/2 and force the other team to hit a 3 or continue the fouling game. Perk not really needed in that situation.

  I'd rather just have him out of the game. I don't have a lot more faith in bringing in one of those guys cold off the bench to take free throws in the last few seconds of a close playoff game.

[guava_wrench]

I am not consoled by those leads because our inability to show up for the intense parts of games seems to me far more relevant to the playoffs.

What seems like it should be a better predictor of performance in the intensity of the playoffs: our 1st half play, or out play at the end of games when every goes all out?

If we can't "turn it on" at the end of games, how can we turn it on for a seven game series?

If you are ineffective when you have your greatest sense of urgency, where can you go from there? It makes it seem like we can only get leads when other teams are taking it easy.

This is a team of veterans who have been to the "Big Show". I truly believe that this team can and will know what they can and can't do when it comes to the playoffs. I really believe that they are "saving" themselves for the playoffs. I think they look back to the last two years and realize that possibly, it isn't worth it to go "all out" during the regular season. Two years ago, they went all out to the get best record and had some speed bumps through the playoffs which may be a result of being somewhat exhausted. They went 7 game series in the first two rounds but willed their way to the championship. Last year, they were going all out and ended up having the injury bug which derailed their title hopes.

I hope I am right, but who knows. I really think they see what happened last year and realize that being healthy and fresh for the playoffs is far more important than any of the rest given their age. They get these big leads and just almost quit playing, which I don't necessarily agree with, but to each his own. I guess I would rather have the collapses and losses happen now than in the coming month and a half. This veteran team knows (or should know) they have to play a full 48 min basketball game come playoffs. Hopefully they have been saving up for just that.

I find it hard to believe that they can increase their intensity more than what they give in the last few minutes of close games in the regular season, particularly against quality teams.