The reason players are straying from Ubuntu this season.

[shookones99]

Does the silence in this thread translate to people agreeing that contracts might have something to do with the teams morale?

Just because someone doesn't state "I disagree with statement A" doesn't mean that they necessarily concur that "statement A" is true.

I think it has a lot more to do with KG's injury and decline. It was his team in 2007-2008. Last year it wasn't anyones because the C's were waiting for him to come back. This year it's still KGs team, but he's no longer the best player every night. So the situation is in a lot of flux as far as leadership goes.

Besides each team is different, 2007-2008's team was special. You don't have chemistry like that all that often, just not how the NBA works. Could the impending break up of this team have a part in it? Sure it could, I think its a minor factor though.

TP Agree 100%

People no longer fear the word of KG.  Teammates or opponents.  And that was one of the biggest things we had going for us during the championship run.....We would just intimidate the hell out of everyone.  Now when he tries to talk trash/intimidate, the opposing player just gets pumped up, because they know that, despite all the trash he is talking, they will probably still grab the rebound over him.  

He just doesn't have the respect, around the league or in his locker room, that he did two years ago.

What is this about intimidation? : \ I thought we were just flat out better in 07-08, and for the former part of 08-09.

No doubt we were better.

But there is no way Rondo or Perk (or anyone else) would be speaking up the way they are now, back in 07-08 or the first part of last season.  If they had an issue back then, they likely would have gone right to KG about it, or Doc, or someone, rather than going to the media.  The reason being, they were terrified of the consequences from teammates had they done that.

This season, however, and the end of last season, KG has been revealed as a mortal.  His word doesn't hold the same weight.  He knows this, I think his teammates know this, and player around the league know this.

[Birdbrain]

Does the silence in this thread translate to people agreeing that contracts might have something to do with the teams morale?

Just because someone doesn't state "I disagree with statement A" doesn't mean that they necessarily concur that "statement A" is true.

I think it has a lot more to do with KG's injury and decline. It was his team in 2007-2008. Last year it wasn't anyones because the C's were waiting for him to come back. This year it's still KGs team, but he's no longer the best player every night. So the situation is in a lot of flux as far as leadership goes.

Besides each team is different, 2007-2008's team was special. You don't have chemistry like that all that often, just not how the NBA works. Could the impending break up of this team have a part in it? Sure it could, I think its a minor factor though.

TP Agree 100%

People no longer fear the word of KG.  Teammates or opponents.  And that was one of the biggest things we had going for us during the championship run.....We would just intimidate the hell out of everyone.  Now when he tries to talk trash/intimidate, the opposing player just gets pumped up, because they know that, despite all the trash he is talking, they will probably still grab the rebound over him.  

He just doesn't have the respect, around the league or in his locker room, that he did two years ago.

What is this about intimidation? : \ I thought we were just flat out better in 07-08, and for the former part of 08-09.

No doubt we were better.

But there is no way Rondo or Perk (or anyone else) would be speaking up the way they are now, back in 07-08 or the first part of last season.  If they had an issue back then, they likely would have gone right to KG about it, or Doc, or someone, rather than going to the media.  The reason being, they were terrified of the consequences from teammates had they done that.

This season, however, and the end of last season, KG has been revealed as a mortal.  His word doesn't hold the same weight.  He knows this, I think his teammates know this, and player around the league know this.

I think you posted about KGs word not meaning anything previously as well.  Care to elaborate what this means and how it has anything to do with the team in general? 

By the way hopefully after KG set Rondo straight him and Perkins won't be offering up theirs opinions very often.

[shookones99]

Does the silence in this thread translate to people agreeing that contracts might have something to do with the teams morale?

Just because someone doesn't state "I disagree with statement A" doesn't mean that they necessarily concur that "statement A" is true.

I think it has a lot more to do with KG's injury and decline. It was his team in 2007-2008. Last year it wasn't anyones because the C's were waiting for him to come back. This year it's still KGs team, but he's no longer the best player every night. So the situation is in a lot of flux as far as leadership goes.

Besides each team is different, 2007-2008's team was special. You don't have chemistry like that all that often, just not how the NBA works. Could the impending break up of this team have a part in it? Sure it could, I think its a minor factor though.

TP Agree 100%

People no longer fear the word of KG.  Teammates or opponents.  And that was one of the biggest things we had going for us during the championship run.....We would just intimidate the hell out of everyone.  Now when he tries to talk trash/intimidate, the opposing player just gets pumped up, because they know that, despite all the trash he is talking, they will probably still grab the rebound over him.  

He just doesn't have the respect, around the league or in his locker room, that he did two years ago.

What is this about intimidation? : \ I thought we were just flat out better in 07-08, and for the former part of 08-09.

No doubt we were better.

But there is no way Rondo or Perk (or anyone else) would be speaking up the way they are now, back in 07-08 or the first part of last season.  If they had an issue back then, they likely would have gone right to KG about it, or Doc, or someone, rather than going to the media.  The reason being, they were terrified of the consequences from teammates had they done that.

This season, however, and the end of last season, KG has been revealed as a mortal.  His word doesn't hold the same weight.  He knows this, I think his teammates know this, and player around the league know this.

I think you posted about KGs word not meaning anything previously as well.  Care to elaborate what this means and how it has anything to do with the team in general? 

By the way hopefully after KG set Rondo straight him and Perkins won't be offering up theirs opinions very often.

Basically, I think a big reason as to why we were successful during that first season is that people blindly listened to, and followed, KG.  And when KG is preaching teamwork, sacrifice, defense, and ubunutu nonstop then people will blindly follow that.

I don't think that's the case anymore.  He may still be preaching the same message, but his teammates don't follow his lead the way they used to.

I just get the feeling that his teammates are no longer afraid to cross him, whereas two years ago they were absolutely terrified of doing so

[BballTim]

Does the silence in this thread translate to people agreeing that contracts might have something to do with the teams morale?

Just because someone doesn't state "I disagree with statement A" doesn't mean that they necessarily concur that "statement A" is true.

I think it has a lot more to do with KG's injury and decline. It was his team in 2007-2008. Last year it wasn't anyones because the C's were waiting for him to come back. This year it's still KGs team, but he's no longer the best player every night. So the situation is in a lot of flux as far as leadership goes.

Besides each team is different, 2007-2008's team was special. You don't have chemistry like that all that often, just not how the NBA works. Could the impending break up of this team have a part in it? Sure it could, I think its a minor factor though.

TP Agree 100%

People no longer fear the word of KG.  Teammates or opponents.  And that was one of the biggest things we had going for us during the championship run.....We would just intimidate the hell out of everyone.  Now when he tries to talk trash/intimidate, the opposing player just gets pumped up, because they know that, despite all the trash he is talking, they will probably still grab the rebound over him.  

He just doesn't have the respect, around the league or in his locker room, that he did two years ago.

What is this about intimidation? : \ I thought we were just flat out better in 07-08, and for the former part of 08-09.

No doubt we were better.

But there is no way Rondo or Perk (or anyone else) would be speaking up the way they are now, back in 07-08 or the first part of last season.  If they had an issue back then, they likely would have gone right to KG about it, or Doc, or someone, rather than going to the media.  The reason being, they were terrified of the consequences from teammates had they done that.

This season, however, and the end of last season, KG has been revealed as a mortal.  His word doesn't hold the same weight.  He knows this, I think his teammates know this, and player around the league know this.

I think you posted about KGs word not meaning anything previously as well.  Care to elaborate what this means and how it has anything to do with the team in general? 

By the way hopefully after KG set Rondo straight him and Perkins won't be offering up theirs opinions very often.

  I don't think anyone on the Celts have an problem with Rondo offering up his opinion, just with how he says it and who he says it to. I think the big three think of him more as one of the vets than one of the kids. In fact they're probably hoping he'll take a bigger role because the team will go farther if he does.

[Birdbrain]

Does the silence in this thread translate to people agreeing that contracts might have something to do with the teams morale?

Just because someone doesn't state "I disagree with statement A" doesn't mean that they necessarily concur that "statement A" is true.

I think it has a lot more to do with KG's injury and decline. It was his team in 2007-2008. Last year it wasn't anyones because the C's were waiting for him to come back. This year it's still KGs team, but he's no longer the best player every night. So the situation is in a lot of flux as far as leadership goes.

Besides each team is different, 2007-2008's team was special. You don't have chemistry like that all that often, just not how the NBA works. Could the impending break up of this team have a part in it? Sure it could, I think its a minor factor though.

TP Agree 100%

People no longer fear the word of KG.  Teammates or opponents.  And that was one of the biggest things we had going for us during the championship run.....We would just intimidate the hell out of everyone.  Now when he tries to talk trash/intimidate, the opposing player just gets pumped up, because they know that, despite all the trash he is talking, they will probably still grab the rebound over him.  

He just doesn't have the respect, around the league or in his locker room, that he did two years ago.

What is this about intimidation? : \ I thought we were just flat out better in 07-08, and for the former part of 08-09.

No doubt we were better.

But there is no way Rondo or Perk (or anyone else) would be speaking up the way they are now, back in 07-08 or the first part of last season.  If they had an issue back then, they likely would have gone right to KG about it, or Doc, or someone, rather than going to the media.  The reason being, they were terrified of the consequences from teammates had they done that.

This season, however, and the end of last season, KG has been revealed as a mortal.  His word doesn't hold the same weight.  He knows this, I think his teammates know this, and player around the league know this.

I think you posted about KGs word not meaning anything previously as well.  Care to elaborate what this means and how it has anything to do with the team in general? 

By the way hopefully after KG set Rondo straight him and Perkins won't be offering up theirs opinions very often.

Basically, I think a big reason as to why we were successful during that first season is that people blindly listened to, and followed, KG.  And when KG is preaching teamwork, sacrifice, defense, and ubunutu nonstop then people will blindly follow that.

I don't think that's the case anymore.  He may still be preaching the same message, but his teammates don't follow his lead the way they used to.

I just get the feeling that his teammates are no longer afraid to cross him, whereas two years ago they were absolutely terrified of doing so

Cool thanks for the reply and TP since I agree somewhat with your take.

[incoherent]

I think the OP makes some good points, but I would add that the declining ability and productivity of Ray, KG, House and Sheed are probably causing issues too. Lets compare PER from the championship season to this season:

R. Allen PER 16.60 vs 13.86
E. House PER 13.17 vs 12.39
T. Allen PER 10.81 vs 14.32

R. Wallace PER 17.13 vs 14.36
G. Davis PER 11.40 vs 11.08

K. Garnett PER 25.42 vs 19.77
R. Rondo PER 15.75 vs 19.93

In the championship season, Ray was clearly the best shooting guard, Sheed wasn't here / Baby was the backup four, and Rondo was just above average.

Looking at this year, Tony could make an argument that he should be starting. Davis thinks he is better than Wallace, and their PER's are close - plus he was the starting power forward of a second round playoff team last year. Finally, Rondo has replaced KG as the best player on this team - and over the last few games it is not even close.

When roles change and power shifts, conflict follows.

I agree with this the most. TP for articulating it.

[BballTim]

I think the OP makes some good points, but I would add that the declining ability and productivity of Ray, KG, House and Sheed are probably causing issues too. Lets compare PER from the championship season to this season:

R. Allen PER 16.60 vs 13.86
E. House PER 13.17 vs 12.39
T. Allen PER 10.81 vs 14.32

R. Wallace PER 17.13 vs 14.36
G. Davis PER 11.40 vs 11.08

K. Garnett PER 25.42 vs 19.77
R. Rondo PER 15.75 vs 19.93

In the championship season, Ray was clearly the best shooting guard, Sheed wasn't here / Baby was the backup four, and Rondo was just above average.

Looking at this year, Tony could make an argument that he should be starting. Davis thinks he is better than Wallace, and their PER's are close - plus he was the starting power forward of a second round playoff team last year. Finally, Rondo has replaced KG as the best player on this team - and over the last few games it is not even close.

When roles change and power shifts, conflict follows.

I agree with this the most. TP for articulating it.

  Kind of funny, a poster named incoherent giving out Tommy Points for articulate posts...

[sk7326]

I think the OP makes some good points, but I would add that the declining ability and productivity of Ray, KG, House and Sheed are probably causing issues too. Lets compare PER from the championship season to this season:

R. Allen PER 16.60 vs 13.86
E. House PER 13.17 vs 12.39
T. Allen PER 10.81 vs 14.32

R. Wallace PER 17.13 vs 14.36
G. Davis PER 11.40 vs 11.08

K. Garnett PER 25.42 vs 19.77
R. Rondo PER 15.75 vs 19.93

In the championship season, Ray was clearly the best shooting guard, Sheed wasn't here / Baby was the backup four, and Rondo was just above average.

Looking at this year, Tony could make an argument that he should be starting. Davis thinks he is better than Wallace, and their PER's are close - plus he was the starting power forward of a second round playoff team last year. Finally, Rondo has replaced KG as the best player on this team - and over the last few games it is not even close.

When roles change and power shifts, conflict follows.

I agree with this the most. TP for articulating it.

TA is the guy he can be when he is healthy - he is still a turnover machine who can't shoot ... but his value is true now.  Rondo is the team's best player - though KG still give them their defensive identity.  Look at how ghastly their numbers defensively were in the games KG didn't play.  If you want to point to the one reason they have slipped this year, it's their 3 point shooting, and Allen's lousy three point shooting in particular.  Sheed has been terrible of course, but Allen's 40% norm would offet much of that.  Their FT% is also down because of Rondo and Perk having larger scoring roles.

The rest of their offense has been fairly solid - good shooting pct, lots of assists, lots of turnovers - same as always.