Red Sox trade for Bonser and the off season on the cheap continues!

[yall hate]

si.com's Jon Heyman tweeting that Minaya and the Mets offered Jason Bay 4 years and $65 million and that Bay wants a fifth year. Here's the link:

http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/6542811674

If it is going to take 5 years and $80+ million, there's no way Theo signs Bay and if Bay signs for something in that territory there's no way Boras has Holliday sign for less. I'm thinking a LF of Hermide/Reddick/Crisp is looking more and more like a reality.  Yuk!!

your assuming that there is a team willing to give him that. 

who? 

not the mets.  not the angels.  not the mariners.  who?  Since the Sox have already basically offered the same, I dont see this derailing anything.

And if (IF) they didnt resign him, they would still sign a better platoon for the OF to go with Hermida...(Reddick isnt ready, and Crisp is at best a 4th of).

your point would hold more credibility if it didnt stink of fear mongering (that comes across harsher then I intend, I am not attacking you or anything, obviously your opinion is shared by others, I simply think you are taking the 'bridge' year and blowing it way out of proportion)

[nickagneta]

si.com's Jon Heyman tweeting that Minaya and the Mets offered Jason Bay 4 years and $65 million and that Bay wants a fifth year. Here's the link:

http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/6542811674

If it is going to take 5 years and $80+ million, there's no way Theo signs Bay and if Bay signs for something in that territory there's no way Boras has Holliday sign for less. I'm thinking a LF of Hermide/Reddick/Crisp is looking more and more like a reality.  Yuk!!

your assuming that there is a team willing to give him that. 

who? 

not the mets.  not the angels.  not the mariners.  who?  Since the Sox have already basically offered the same, I dont see this derailing anything.

And if (IF) they didnt resign him, they would still sign a better platoon for the OF to go with Hermida...(Reddick isnt ready, and Crisp is at best a 4th of).

your point would hold more credibility if it didnt stink of fear mongering (that comes across harsher then I intend, I am not attacking you or anything, obviously your opinion is shared by others, I simply think you are taking the 'bridge' year and blowing it way out of proportion)

I really don't think I'm blowing it out of proportion. I really think this team is going very.....cost effective....in terms of money and years they give on contracts this year.

Also, the Sox offer was four years and in the $55-$58 million area. The Mets offer could be as much as $2-$2.5 million a year more than the Sox offer and let's not forget that the Yankees might still want to add a corner outfielder with power to also use as a DH every once in a while. I would not doubt a late run by the Yankees for Bay and as they may wait for the market to set and pounce, much like last year with Texiera.

We will just have to wait and see.

[Fan from VT]

I understand both sides here. Management of Red Sox whining about money is ridiculous. That said, every team has an operating budget, and the worst thing to do in any sport is over pay because you feel like you have to. If it doesn't make sense and would hurt you a year or two later, don't do it. That's one reason I loathe Shaughnessy. Here he is telling management to pony up and go all in, but he's the same guy who, 6 months from now if one of those signings HE'S TELLING THEM TO MAKE doesn't work out, he'll slam management for that. He's the ultimate two-face, which is why I don't read anything he writes unless it's specifically linked.

The GM's job is to take care of the team and make the hard choices for the long-term and short-term health of the franchise. Then the marketing department's job is to maximize attendance and profits based on the product and what people are willing to pay. If they're intelligently waiting, we'll know that very soon because the product will be great in a year or two. If they're being cheap but keep raising prices, well, if enough people think it's unfair, they won't be able to sell all the tickets and it will correct.

But I have to say, if there's seriously a chance they could grab Derek Lee/Pujols at first, Mauer behind the plate, and Crawford in the outfield, but signing anyone long term this offseason would hurt that, wouldn't you have to wait?

[Donoghus]

Well, I mentioned a few months ago that I wasn't too keen on paying Bay 4/$60 million and its looking like it'll take more now.  If that's the case, I say let him walk rather than overpay.  Don't get me wrong, he's a great talent but if he's gonna cost $16-17 million/year, let him get it elsewhere. 

[Brickowski]

I'm guessing that the Yankees have zero interest in Bay.  If they pay big bucks for a corner outfielder, it will be Holliday.  Or, I could see them resigning one of their own FA outfielders: Damon, Matsui or Nady.

[jasail]

Ya you're right the Sox's should not make any organizational depth signings while ALL the big name free agents are still available and no one on the block besides Granderson has been traded.

I hate when organizations can multi-task.

[PosImpos]

It's gonna take a while to build a better team than the Yankees, guys...one offseason isn't going to do it.  I imagine Theo realizes that. 

The Yankees are stacked now and they're only getting better.

[freshinthehouse]

The MLB is ridiculous.  Red Sox fans gripe when the only move they make in the off-season is sign Scuturo.  As a Twins fan, an off-season is a massive success if you can manage to resign most of your players, let alone dabble in the free agent market. 

I can't think of the Twins ever signing a FA to contract bigger than the one the Sox signed Scutaro to.  Think of that.  A sub-par off-season for the Sox would be the biggest free agency move in Twins history.

But I'll put my Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ing aside and talk about Boof.  Dude's got a very good curve, an all right fast ball, and nothing else.  Looked to be a mid rotation guy 3-4 years ago, but those days have come and gone.  He could make a decent mid-relief option, where his lack of pitch variety would be minimized. 

[Cman]

I see a whole lot of 3-2 or 4-3, 4-hour losses in the schedule.

Talk about brightening my day...

 

[yall hate]

while I still think it is best to wait on judgment re the amount of money they will spend this year, this article is interesting in providing some comments about the fact that the sox arent likely to be cheap.

http://espn.go.com/boston/columns/redsox/blog/_/post/4734602/name/edes

Larry Lucchino, in a radio interview on Boston sports radio station WEEI's Dennis and Callahan program, scoffed at the notion that the Red Sox might step back competitively in 2010, saying that there was a "gross overreaction" to general manager Theo Epstein's statement earlier this week that this might be a "bridge" season.

"We don't think we should have to crow about our commitment to winning. It's there. Our goal is to play baseball every October.''

009: $121,745,999 2008: $133,390,035 2007: $143,026,214 2006: $120,099,824 2005: $123,505,125 2004: $127,298,500 2003: $ 99,946,500 2002: $108,366,060 2001: $110,035,883 2000: $ 81,200,000

If you look at final payroll numbers (2009 not included; the Red Sox added salary in Victor Martinez, Casey Kotchman and Alex Gonzalez), you can see the Red Sox made significant midseason bumps, but the trend the last two years has been downward.

However, one can hardly conclude that the Sox are turning cheap, especially when you consider that the $51.1 million posting fee they paid for Daisuke Matsuzaka is not included in any of these calculations.

finally:

The Red Sox already have close to $100 million in contract obligations for 2010. That doesn't include the $9 million-plus they'll be paying former player Julio Lugo, but does include Mike Lowell's $12 million deal ($9 million of which they'll eat if his trade goes through). Jonathan Papelbon, who was paid $6.25 million in 2009, will get a good jump in arbitration. Jeremy Hermida, Hideki Okajima, Manny Delcarmen and Ramon Ramirez are also arbitration-eligible.

Plus, the Red Sox are in the bidding for Jason Bay and Adrian Beltre, who between them would add another $25 million to $30 million to the payroll. When Lucchino says the Sox payroll is headed upward in 2010, he ain't lyin'. By the way, Lucchino also confirmed that the Lowell deal isn't done yet.

[PosImpos]

The MLB is ridiculous.  Red Sox fans gripe when the only move they make in the off-season is sign Scuturo.  As a Twins fan, an off-season is a massive success if you can manage to resign most of your players, let alone dabble in the free agent market. 

I can't think of the Twins ever signing a FA to contract bigger than the one the Sox signed Scutaro to.  Think of that.  A sub-par off-season for the Sox would be the biggest free agency move in Twins history.

But I'll put my ****ing aside and talk about Boof.  Dude's got a very good curve, an all right fast ball, and nothing else.  Looked to be a mid rotation guy 3-4 years ago, but those days have come and gone.  He could make a decent mid-relief option, where his lack of pitch variety would be minimized. 

While that's a sad story, it's not our fault that your favorite team doesn't have much money. 

It's legitimate to be annoyed, or at least critical, when a team that purports to be out to win a championship - a team with a rabid fanbase that gives them mountains of revenue in ticket sales and merchandise no less - doesn't make any really competitive moves in the off-season to keep up with its main division rival.

[nickagneta]

while I still think it is best to wait on judgment re the amount of money they will spend this year, this article is interesting in providing some comments about the fact that the sox arent likely to be cheap.

http://espn.go.com/boston/columns/redsox/blog/_/post/4734602/name/edes

Larry Lucchino, in a radio interview on Boston sports radio station WEEI's Dennis and Callahan program, scoffed at the notion that the Red Sox might step back competitively in 2010, saying that there was a "gross overreaction" to general manager Theo Epstein's statement earlier this week that this might be a "bridge" season.

"We don't think we should have to crow about our commitment to winning. It's there. Our goal is to play baseball every October.''

009: $121,745,999 2008: $133,390,035 2007: $143,026,214 2006: $120,099,824 2005: $123,505,125 2004: $127,298,500 2003: $ 99,946,500 2002: $108,366,060 2001: $110,035,883 2000: $ 81,200,000

If you look at final payroll numbers (2009 not included; the Red Sox added salary in Victor Martinez, Casey Kotchman and Alex Gonzalez), you can see the Red Sox made significant midseason bumps, but the trend the last two years has been downward.

However, one can hardly conclude that the Sox are turning cheap, especially when you consider that the $51.1 million posting fee they paid for Daisuke Matsuzaka is not included in any of these calculations.

finally:

The Red Sox already have close to $100 million in contract obligations for 2010. That doesn't include the $9 million-plus they'll be paying former player Julio Lugo, but does include Mike Lowell's $12 million deal ($9 million of which they'll eat if his trade goes through). Jonathan Papelbon, who was paid $6.25 million in 2009, will get a good jump in arbitration. Jeremy Hermida, Hideki Okajima, Manny Delcarmen and Ramon Ramirez are also arbitration-eligible.

Plus, the Red Sox are in the bidding for Jason Bay and Adrian Beltre, who between them would add another $25 million to $30 million to the payroll. When Lucchino says the Sox payroll is headed upward in 2010, he ain't lyin'. By the way, Lucchino also confirmed that the Lowell deal isn't done yet.

Lots of what ifs and promises of spending but in reality, we really are in a wait and see regarding this. Does anyone really think that the president of the Boston Red Sox, the team that charges more for their average ticket than any other team in the league, is going to stand by and not put a positive public relations spin on the team as they obviously look to save cash by not making big off season noise.

It's easy to throw numbers around saying the Sox are talking to these guys and IF they sign them that's x amount of dollars being added to the payroll. But if they don't do it then they are probably looking at a $10-$20 million drop in payroll this season as they "bridge" to 2010.

To me, I think it's smart business. To people spending upwards of tens of thousands of dollars a year on tickets and parking and concessions a year for season tickets and such and for a lot of unrealistic fans, they are going to be looked at as cheap if they don't make splashes this off season.

[nickagneta]

A man is a man only if he can look others in the face and admit just how wrong he was.

I was wrong.

The Sox have been brilliant in their approach to this off season and cheap or frugal are not words to describe what they have done. They set themselves up long term in their pitching so they can deal young arms for a big infield bat while simultaneously leaving open spots for a run next year for Crawford and Mauer.

And they spent a ton of cash doing it.

[Casperian]

A man is a man only if he can look others in the face and admit just how wrong he was.

I was wrong.

You know what they say, nick:

"No guts, no glory".

Just ask Gary Tanguay...

[yall hate]

A man is a man only if he can look others in the face and admit just how wrong he was.

I was wrong.

The Sox have been brilliant in their approach to this off season and cheap or frugal are not words to describe what they have done. They set themselves up long term in their pitching so they can deal young arms for a big infield bat while simultaneously leaving open spots for a run next year for Crawford and Mauer.

And they spent a ton of cash doing it.

Nice Nick. Glad it was you that was wrong and not me 

TP for the post