Explain 2006 draft (7th Overall) pick traded

[libermaniac]

If you forget for a second the Ratliff part of the deal (which is huge, but bear with me), I still look at the draft as this:

Would you do:

Roy for Rondo
and
take Telfair at 22 (where Rondo went).

That's not nearly as bad as just looking at Telfair for Roy.  Not bad at all.

[Roy Hobbs]

If you forget for a second the Ratliff part of the deal (which is huge, but bear with me), I still look at the draft as this:

Would you do:

Roy for Rondo
and
take Telfair at 22 (where Rondo went).

That's not nearly as bad as just looking at Telfair for Roy.  Not bad at all.

I don't think you can look at it like that.  Wouldn't people say, which would you prefer, Roy and Rondo, or Rondo and Telfair?  I mean, that's the choice Danny had, presumably.  Or, if he was hell bent on taking Rondo at #7, the choice would have been Rondo + 2007 draft pick (Rudy Fernandez), vs. Telfair + Rondo.

If this trade is just evaluated in terms of talent, it was a loss for Boston, no matter how it's looked at.  If it's considered as a move for financial and trading flexibility, though, it's probably even.

[jambr380]

I get that things have a way of working out and I wouldn't trade our championship for anything now, but this just goes to show what a miserable deal the Raef LaFrentz trade was. I have been saying this way too many times in the forums lately- it just brings up really horrible memories. He was the beginning of the end for the Celtics at that time. It wasn't until we got Allen and KG that I finally started to 'trust' Danny- because before that, he made a bunch of bonehead moves.

[Roy Hobbs]

I get that things have a way of working out and I wouldn't trade our championship for anything now, but this just goes to show what a miserable deal the Raef LaFrentz trade was. I have been saying this way too many times in the forums lately- it just brings up really horrible memories. He was the beginning of the end for the Celtics at that time. It wasn't until we got Allen and KG that I finally started to 'trust' Danny- because before that, he made a bunch of bonehead moves.

Yeah, I'm with you on that.  The Raef-for-Antoine deal might have been defensible at the time, but it didn't really work out as anticipated. 

[MidwestGreen]

The thing that I don't understand, we had (7th overall) pick but it was magically traded for scrubs. Why was it done? Was the trade done before or after the draft? and Why Randy Foye instead of Rudy Gay?

Looking back we had a chance to get Rudy Gay & Rajon Rondo in one draft. What a combo that would've been!

We won a championship, could have won it last year, and are in contention to win it again this year.

Yea I would have done the same thing over.

[footey]

We had a pre-arranged deal with Portland to trade our pick and Raef for Telfair and Ratliff.

Ainge liked Telfair's potential, but picking up Ratliff was a huge, huge part of the deal.  He had a contract that expired one year sooner than Raef's.  This was important for one of two reasons:  1) we could package that expiring contract in trades, or 2) we could have let the deal expire to create room under the luxury tax necessary to re-sign our young guys. 

I think it's fair to say that Danny probably misjudged the relative value of Telfair (who was worse than Ainge anticipated) and Roy (who was better).  However, the Ratliff piece was a big one, and it in fact turned out to be a huge asset, as we landed KG the following season.

Had we not made that trade, it's hard to say what would have happened.  We possibly still could have made the KG trade, but would have had to give up Big Al and Roy (but maybe could have kept somebody like Gomes out of the deal).  We might have passed on Roy altogether, and just selected Rondo at #7, as was rumored.  We might have committed to a full youth movement, and decided to trade Paul Pierce. 

It's impossible to tell how things would have turned up, but I'd rather have our current team than a roster like Portland's, full of youth and potential that may never go anywhere.

We may not have needed to get Ray Allen either, as KG might have felt comfortable enough to go to Boston if Pierce and Roy were there. So we would have had Wally and D West as additional chips, not to mention the number 5 pick from the next year, assuming that was still the one we got.

I think Danny grossly undervalued Roy and overvalued Telfair. He also undervalued Rudy Gay, who was available. Most GMs did, which is why he slipped to 8th pick.  

[Roy Hobbs]

We had a pre-arranged deal with Portland to trade our pick and Raef for Telfair and Ratliff.

Ainge liked Telfair's potential, but picking up Ratliff was a huge, huge part of the deal.  He had a contract that expired one year sooner than Raef's.  This was important for one of two reasons:  1) we could package that expiring contract in trades, or 2) we could have let the deal expire to create room under the luxury tax necessary to re-sign our young guys. 

I think it's fair to say that Danny probably misjudged the relative value of Telfair (who was worse than Ainge anticipated) and Roy (who was better).  However, the Ratliff piece was a big one, and it in fact turned out to be a huge asset, as we landed KG the following season.

Had we not made that trade, it's hard to say what would have happened.  We possibly still could have made the KG trade, but would have had to give up Big Al and Roy (but maybe could have kept somebody like Gomes out of the deal).  We might have passed on Roy altogether, and just selected Rondo at #7, as was rumored.  We might have committed to a full youth movement, and decided to trade Paul Pierce. 

It's impossible to tell how things would have turned up, but I'd rather have our current team than a roster like Portland's, full of youth and potential that may never go anywhere.

We may not have needed to get Ray Allen either, as KG might have felt comfortable enough to go to Boston if Pierce and Roy were there. So we would have had Wally and D West as additional chips, not to mention the number 5 pick from the next year, assuming that was still the one we got.

I think Danny grossly undervalued Roy and overvalued Telfair. He also undervalued Rudy Gay, who was available. Most GMs did, which is why he slipped to 8th pick.  

I think it's very, very unlikely that Minnesota would have done a deal for Wally or Raef, plus Big Al, Gomes, Green, and picks.  Basically, the net result of that deal costs the Twolves $12 million extra (and in reality, more, as much of Ratliff's deal was paid by insurance, I believe).  No, if we weren't giving an expiring contract, I'm sure we would have had to send Roy, as well.

[BballTim]

We had a pre-arranged deal with Portland to trade our pick and Raef for Telfair and Ratliff.

Ainge liked Telfair's potential, but picking up Ratliff was a huge, huge part of the deal.  He had a contract that expired one year sooner than Raef's.  This was important for one of two reasons:  1) we could package that expiring contract in trades, or 2) we could have let the deal expire to create room under the luxury tax necessary to re-sign our young guys. 

I think it's fair to say that Danny probably misjudged the relative value of Telfair (who was worse than Ainge anticipated) and Roy (who was better).  However, the Ratliff piece was a big one, and it in fact turned out to be a huge asset, as we landed KG the following season.

Had we not made that trade, it's hard to say what would have happened.  We possibly still could have made the KG trade, but would have had to give up Big Al and Roy (but maybe could have kept somebody like Gomes out of the deal).  We might have passed on Roy altogether, and just selected Rondo at #7, as was rumored.  We might have committed to a full youth movement, and decided to trade Paul Pierce. 

It's impossible to tell how things would have turned up, but I'd rather have our current team than a roster like Portland's, full of youth and potential that may never go anywhere.

We may not have needed to get Ray Allen either, as KG might have felt comfortable enough to go to Boston if Pierce and Roy were there. So we would have had Wally and D West as additional chips, not to mention the number 5 pick from the next year, assuming that was still the one we got.

I think Danny grossly undervalued Roy and overvalued Telfair. He also undervalued Rudy Gay, who was available. Most GMs did, which is why he slipped to 8th pick.  

  We weren't trading with KG, we were trading with Minnesota. KG may have been comfortable with the deal if we had Roy but Minny wouldn't have wanted to trade KG for Raef's contract.

[libermaniac]

If you forget for a second the Ratliff part of the deal (which is huge, but bear with me), I still look at the draft as this:

Would you do:

Roy for Rondo
and
take Telfair at 22 (where Rondo went).

That's not nearly as bad as just looking at Telfair for Roy.  Not bad at all.

I don't think you can look at it like that.  Wouldn't people say, which would you prefer, Roy and Rondo, or Rondo and Telfair?  I mean, that's the choice Danny had, presumably.  Or, if he was hell bent on taking Rondo at #7, the choice would have been Rondo + 2007 draft pick (Rudy Fernandez), vs. Telfair + Rondo.

If this trade is just evaluated in terms of talent, it was a loss for Boston, no matter how it's looked at.  If it's considered as a move for financial and trading flexibility, though, it's probably even.

I'm just saying, in that year, the absolute steal of Rondo at the 22nd pick helps to offset, in my mind, the horrible trade of Telfair for Roy.  If the trade had been Roy for Rondo and then Telfair taken at the 22nd pick, we wouldn't look back at the dealings on that day and think they were horribly lopsided.

Clearly it's not the decision Ainge had at the time, but, hopefully you get my point.

[hwangjini_1]

one of the key points in this thread is that the celtics could have taken roy with their first pick in the draft. not sure of that though.

wasnt there a prolonged discussion about how roy would NOT have been there. it was convoluted, but didnt minnesota let it be known that they would trade up and take roy before boston?

ok, ok... i am senile and i dont remember the details. but i do remember people making the point that one of the motivations for the trade was that ainge knew roy would not be there.

can anyone dig up the old, ancient, dusty thread on this?

[Roy Hobbs]

one of the key points in this thread is that the celtics could have taken roy with their first pick in the draft. not sure of that though.

wasnt there a prolonged discussion about how roy would NOT have been there. it was convoluted, but didnt minnesota let it be known that they would trade up and take roy before boston?

ok, ok... i am senile and i dont remember the details. but i do remember people making the point that one of the motivations for the trade was that ainge knew roy would not be there.

can anyone dig up the old, ancient, dusty thread on this?

No, Roy would have been there, Foye wouldn't have.  As I recall, Minnesota took Roy at #6 and we took Foye at #7 on behalf of Portland, which then swapped Foye for Roy plus cash.  We could have made the same swap with Minnesota.

If we'd wanted Foye, we would have been out of luck, because Minnesota simply would have drafted and kept him, rather than letting him slip to #7.  The only reason they took Roy was because they knew the Blazers coveted him, and would thus give them something for him.

[hwangjini_1]

thanks roy. i am delighted you have not yet turned senile...like i have. 

[Surferdad]

I'm not sure we would have seen a Roy/Pierce/Big Al combo for long.  Pretty clear that Pierce was getting very frustrated with all of the rebuilding, had we not made the deals for Ray Allen and KG I'd be shocked if he wouldn't have asked for a trade.  He might not have gotten traded, but the dynamic would be wholly different.  He'd clearly had just about enough with playing with the young kids. 

That may have come to pass but PP may have been willing to see it out as well.  Assuming the players we had would have stayed with us (no trades for Ray or KG nor speculation on other deals -- just to make my life simpler here) and Danny made the other moves that weren't related to the Ray/KG deals, the team would have looked something like this:

Starting Line-up
Rondo (Danny still purchases the pick), Roy, PP, Al, Perk.
-->that starting line-up still has 3 prime-time scorers with Rondo and Perk.

Bench
Delonte (hopefully with his act together), TA (hopefully pre-injury-->if the trade with Portland doesn't happen, the moment in the game where he injures himself possibly doesn't come to pass --> go with me on this one on a whole time continuum sort of thing), Gomes, Powe (Danny still acquires this pick), Green/YI-->Danny keeps this pick and either takes the player that was picked or the one he mentioned he wanted--hopefully he takes Green, Giddens, Hudson, Walker (Danny still gets the Walker pick from Washington.  Danny would have also had last year's first rounder to add.  I would also speculate that Telfair, Gerald and Pruitt would not be with the team.

*one speculation that's feasible, if Danny doesn't have 2 2nd round picks when Pruitt and BBD are available and based on the roster mentioned above, Danny may take BBD with C's pick instead of Pruitt.  Not exactly a stretch and would strengthen the "alternative universe" roster.

Add a free agent big man for each of the last two years  with the MLE to back up Al and Perk and that's a team that can get to the ECF if not the finals.  Definitely a lot of depth and a quality starting line-up.

Pure speculation obviously but not necessarily a gloom-and-doom situation.

Have to agree with the Bird here.  Pierce pretty much has intimated during interviews that he would not have stuck around unless the vets were brought in.  Without PP would have left a core of Rondo, Roy, Perk, Big Al, plus "glue guy" Gomes, not bad.  On the other hand, I have to attribute Rondo's and Perk's maturation as at least in part due to the presence of 3 HOFers to play with every night.

[slamtheking]

I'm not sure we would have seen a Roy/Pierce/Big Al combo for long.  Pretty clear that Pierce was getting very frustrated with all of the rebuilding, had we not made the deals for Ray Allen and KG I'd be shocked if he wouldn't have asked for a trade.  He might not have gotten traded, but the dynamic would be wholly different.  He'd clearly had just about enough with playing with the young kids. 

That may have come to pass but PP may have been willing to see it out as well.  Assuming the players we had would have stayed with us (no trades for Ray or KG nor speculation on other deals -- just to make my life simpler here) and Danny made the other moves that weren't related to the Ray/KG deals, the team would have looked something like this:

Starting Line-up
Rondo (Danny still purchases the pick), Roy, PP, Al, Perk.
-->that starting line-up still has 3 prime-time scorers with Rondo and Perk.

Bench
Delonte (hopefully with his act together), TA (hopefully pre-injury-->if the trade with Portland doesn't happen, the moment in the game where he injures himself possibly doesn't come to pass --> go with me on this one on a whole time continuum sort of thing), Gomes, Powe (Danny still acquires this pick), Green/YI-->Danny keeps this pick and either takes the player that was picked or the one he mentioned he wanted--hopefully he takes Green, Giddens, Hudson, Walker (Danny still gets the Walker pick from Washington.  Danny would have also had last year's first rounder to add.  I would also speculate that Telfair, Gerald and Pruitt would not be with the team.

*one speculation that's feasible, if Danny doesn't have 2 2nd round picks when Pruitt and BBD are available and based on the roster mentioned above, Danny may take BBD with C's pick instead of Pruitt.  Not exactly a stretch and would strengthen the "alternative universe" roster.

Add a free agent big man for each of the last two years  with the MLE to back up Al and Perk and that's a team that can get to the ECF if not the finals.  Definitely a lot of depth and a quality starting line-up.

Pure speculation obviously but not necessarily a gloom-and-doom situation.

Have to agree with the Bird here.  Pierce pretty much has intimated during interviews that he would not have stuck around unless the vets were brought in.  Without PP would have left a core of Rondo, Roy, Perk, Big Al, plus "glue guy" Gomes, not bad.  On the other hand, I have to attribute Rondo's and Perk's maturation as at least in part due to the presence of 3 HOFers to play with every night.

I agree that the big 3 have helped Perk and Rondo mature and even go a step further in saying that if Big Al were still here, Perk's offense may not have developed to where it is now. 

I do think there's a possibility that Pierce may have stuck it out with solid talent at his side in the person's of Roy, Rondo and Al.