Author Topic: Peter May article about Ray  (Read 4999 times)

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Re: Peter May article about Ray
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2009, 11:43:27 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Ray has the best net +/- on the team so far this year, by a significant margin:

http://www.82games.com/0910/0910BOS.HTM

82games calls this the on-court/off-court net. Ray's is over 16 - the Celts are around 8 points better on offense when he's on the court, and (perhaps more surprisingly) around 8 points better on D.

Re: Peter May article about Ray
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2009, 11:00:10 AM »

Offline Drucci

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I whole-heartedly agree that you just can't trade Ray when the Celts are still a contender.  I'm all for giving him an extension.  Ray is just one of those guys who is crucial to how the team functions, and no matter how poorly he's shooting, I always expect him to make the next shot.

Yep. Ray is my favorite player on this team and in the league and his skills and character are often overlooked. Glad to see an article right on point.

Hopefully Ray will retire as a Celtic and add one or two championships to his résumé. :)

Re: Peter May article about Ray
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2009, 11:06:14 AM »

Kiorrik

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Hopefully Ray will retire as a Celtic and add one or two championships to his résumé. :)
Three/four.

Re: Peter May article about Ray
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2009, 11:19:47 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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if ray continues to shoot 3 pts at this rate (32.2%, his previous career low was 35.1%, his career average is 39.7%) then come the playoffs, a good team with a good coach may decide to stop respecting ray's shots and make him prove he can still do it.

Heh...any coach that decides to stop respecting Ray's shot isn't a good one, or at least won't be thought of that way for long.  Shooting is the last skill to leave a player as they age; I don't think anybody thinks Ray shooting a few % lower with guys respecting the shot is a good reason to dare him to beat us there.  They've all seen the 08 Finals. 

I really, really hope we can hang on to Ray.  He's a class act and tremendously well-conditioned.  Not only will he contribute to us going ahead but he'll be an excellent role model and mentor for the young guys we continue to bring in.  I want him to retire a C and get his jersey in the rafters with the rest of the Big 3.  And I want to see him break the 3 pt record in a Celtics uniform, and in all likelihood he won't get there this year.

Re: Peter May article about Ray
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2009, 11:33:24 AM »

Offline ManUp

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if ray continues to shoot 3 pts at this rate (32.2%, his previous career low was 35.1%, his career average is 39.7%) then come the playoffs, a good team with a good coach may decide to stop respecting ray's shots and make him prove he can still do it.

Heh...any coach that decides to stop respecting Ray's shot isn't a good one, or at least won't be thought of that way for long.  Shooting is the last skill to leave a player as they age; I don't think anybody thinks Ray shooting a few % lower with guys respecting the shot is a good reason to dare him to beat us there.  They've all seen the 08 Finals. 

I really, really hope we can hang on to Ray.  He's a class act and tremendously well-conditioned.  Not only will he contribute to us going ahead but he'll be an excellent role model and mentor for the young guys we continue to bring in.  I want him to retire a C and get his jersey in the rafters with the rest of the Big 3.  And I want to see him break the 3 pt record in a Celtics uniform, and in all likelihood he won't get there this year.

You can only live off your reputation for so long. Someone who shoots 32% from 3 point land is generally a bad 3-point shooter. If Ray keeps shooting at a 32 percent clip it's not that bad of an idea to leave him open every once and a while.

Re: Peter May article about Ray
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2009, 12:39:01 PM »

Offline Jon

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A few things:

1) The way Doc leans on Ray at times clearly shows the respect he has for him.  There's been a number of key games this year when Ray's played over 40 minutes when no one else has topped 35.  That clearly shows you how much Doc values not only the spacing his shooting supplies, but also his ability to handle the ball (which helps with House in the game).

2) You really can't emphasize what his spacing does enough.  People like to complain about all the threes Ray, Paul, and Rasheed take, and all the 20 footers KG takes, but if this was a team of slashers (like Rondo) this many scorers on one team wouldn't work.  Not only is Ray so valuable for how he can open up the floor for others, he's also valuable because he can go off for 20+ points without having a play called for him by just hanging out on the perimeter waiting for a kickout.  (Of course, he can also get his own shot.)  And that goes a long way for getting everyone their touches.

3) I wouldn't worry about his shooting.  Despite his age, he might be in the best physical shape of anyone on the team.  Furthermore, even when his body starts to fail him, it won't be his shooting that goes, it'll be his quickness, etc.  Expect him to be in the upper 30% by the end of the season at worst. 

And as people have already said, even if that doesn't happen, the fact that he's Ray Allen will keep teams from cheating off im for a very, very long time.  He'll have to have several 32% seasons before teams start to leave him alone. 


4) Baby.  Aside from the fact that playing him at the 3 is probably a bad idea (especially for long periods of time, as he would as a starter), the value of Ray coming off the bench would be dramatically diminished come playoff time.  I mean think about it, do you see Doc playing the starters less than 36-38 mpg come playoff time?  Isn't it likely they're playing closer to 40?  What that means is that there's pretty much always going to be 2-3 starters on the floor at all times.  It also means we'll probably only use 3 bench players.  So having Ray come off the bench for  "instant offense" isn't going to matter if Pierce, Rondo, and KG are still on the floor.  Finally, I'm not convinced that Baby can even crack our playoff rotation.  Yes, he probably will beat out Williams by the end of the year; however, if KG and Perk are both playing north of 36 mpg come playoff time, do we have minutes for more than Wallace?  I'm not so sure. 
« Last Edit: December 06, 2009, 12:50:42 PM by Jon »

Re: Peter May article about Ray
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2009, 01:43:52 PM »

Offline TheRev72

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I think Ray's lower shooting percentage might be attributable to the degree of difficulty of his 3's.  A lot of guys camp out behind the line, wait for the ball to swing, and shoot open 3's with their feet set.  Watch Ray, though; Doc has his coming off screens and shooting 3's on the move.  That's an incredibly difficult shot to make.  There aren't a lot guys who can do that, and he can.  I think his % will come back up as the season rolls on.

Also, I'd like to see him come off screens for a few more 18 footers mixed in with those 3's. 

Re: Peter May article about Ray
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2009, 02:23:20 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Nice thread on Ray Allen.

I'd love to see him, KG and Paul Pierce ride off into the sunset..with another title this year (maybe next?).

With Ray, KG and P2 the Celtics are currently built to combat the Laker's hopes of catching us in the championship count.

Not to overlook other teams, but to me it's always been Celtics-Lakers.

Re: Peter May article about Ray
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2009, 04:25:23 PM »

Offline Cman

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Interesting article by May. 

I wonder how much Ray could realistically expect to get on the open market -- and how much of a hometown discount he would give (which I don't believe for a second).  Clearly some team would be willing to throw the full MLE at him, so we are talking about something above that number.  Maybe  $8M/year for 3 years?  That's more or less what Lamar Odom got, so that's probably in the right ballpark.  Although Lamar probably got less than one might expect because many teams with cap room last year were holding off on using it in the hope of landing Wade/James/Bosh. 

Next offseason, there will be a lot of teams that miss out on those three guys, who will have cap room to spare.  So I expect Allen could get more on the open market than $8M/year.  But I doubt it approaches $10M a year. 

Factor in a home town discount and I think Cs are looking at $8-9M/year.
Celtics fan for life.

Re: Peter May article about Ray
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2009, 03:21:24 PM »

Offline ssspence

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Glad to see Mr. Rivers agreeing with me pretty exactly in today's globe:

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2009/12/08/allen_gets_defensive/
Mike

(My name is not Mike)