One of the things that still bothers me about Doc

[Drucci]

We got this quote from Doc this morning:

Celtics' captain Paul Pierce (left knee sprain) practiced briefly Monday and will be held out of Tuesday's training session, according to coach Doc Rivers. Pierce's status for the Celtics-Golden State Warriors contest Wednesday has not been determined. . . .

"I shouldn't have played him," Rivers said of Pierce's appearance against the Pacers. "But he talked me into it."

Link.

Numerous times since he's been coach, Doc has said the exact same thing.  With Pierce in the past, Wally, Big Al, Ray, KG, etc., etc., we've heard "I shouldn't have played him, but I did".  The justification is either, "he talked me into it" or "we needed to win the game".

I think by and large, Doc has been a good coach for this group of veterans.  However, these excuses get old after awhile.

the thing that aggravates me is that the Pierce injury was pretty clearly a sprain, but word out of the team is a bruise...he banged it...

i think it's pretty clear that the biggest potential hit to our Title hopes is an injury to Paul or KG (a little lesser for Ray and Rondo). So this medical staff needs to be hyper-vigilant.

Decisions before being in Doc and Paul's hands needs to have a pretty strict medical component.

I mean, if Paul really shouldn't have played in the IND game, where is the medical report saying to stay off it for a game or two?

Exactly where are you getting your info that this is a sprain?

So much for Doctor (Rivers’) orders. Though the Celtics coach said yesterday that Paul Pierce would miss the two days of practice leading up to tomorrow night’s game against Golden State, the Celtics captain walked onto the floor today anyway.

“I got a good response from my last couple of days of rest,” Pierce said after running through the full session. “I felt good about it. It went smooth. A slight sprain in the knee, but I’m a fast healer. I felt good.”

“Pretty tough,” he said of what it takes to keep him off the floor, and his ability to talk himself into Saturday’s game in Indiana after suffering the injury a night earlier. “I’m a little bit older, so I’m smart about things. I felt really good today. My body responded really well to the treatment.”

Source

[winsomme]

We got this quote from Doc this morning:

Celtics' captain Paul Pierce (left knee sprain) practiced briefly Monday and will be held out of Tuesday's training session, according to coach Doc Rivers. Pierce's status for the Celtics-Golden State Warriors contest Wednesday has not been determined. . . .

"I shouldn't have played him," Rivers said of Pierce's appearance against the Pacers. "But he talked me into it."

Link.

Numerous times since he's been coach, Doc has said the exact same thing.  With Pierce in the past, Wally, Big Al, Ray, KG, etc., etc., we've heard "I shouldn't have played him, but I did".  The justification is either, "he talked me into it" or "we needed to win the game".

I think by and large, Doc has been a good coach for this group of veterans.  However, these excuses get old after awhile.

the thing that aggravates me is that the Pierce injury was pretty clearly a sprain, but word out of the team is a bruise...he banged it...

i think it's pretty clear that the biggest potential hit to our Title hopes is an injury to Paul or KG (a little lesser for Ray and Rondo). So this medical staff needs to be hyper-vigilant.

Decisions before being in Doc and Paul's hands needs to have a pretty strict medical component.

I mean, if Paul really shouldn't have played in the IND game, where is the medical report saying to stay off it for a game or two?

Exactly where are you getting your info that this is a sprain?

it's in the link that Roy posted.

[Ian]

that's one of the things that makes doc a players coach, though, he's so willing to listen to his players

[nickagneta]

When did this go from the medical staff calling it a bruise to pierce calling it a sprain? Didn't really read much on this this weekend but I seem to remember after the game the reports being a bruise and that the papers reported the same thing on Saturday morning.

Now is the sprain what Pierce is saying or is that the medical staff's diagnosis and which is right?

[Chris]

We got this quote from Doc this morning:

Celtics' captain Paul Pierce (left knee sprain) practiced briefly Monday and will be held out of Tuesday's training session, according to coach Doc Rivers. Pierce's status for the Celtics-Golden State Warriors contest Wednesday has not been determined. . . .

"I shouldn't have played him," Rivers said of Pierce's appearance against the Pacers. "But he talked me into it."

Link.

Numerous times since he's been coach, Doc has said the exact same thing.  With Pierce in the past, Wally, Big Al, Ray, KG, etc., etc., we've heard "I shouldn't have played him, but I did".  The justification is either, "he talked me into it" or "we needed to win the game".

I think by and large, Doc has been a good coach for this group of veterans.  However, these excuses get old after awhile.

Just like when we were having this conversation a few years ago, this annoys me as well...but not because of Doc, but because of the trainer.  It is the trainers job to decide whether players are healthy enough to play without making anything worse.  That decision should be out of Doc's hands.  If Pierce is not healthy enough to play, the trainer should say that, and it should be the end of it.  

To force a coach, whose goal is to win games, make a medical decision on a player is reckless IMO.  If the trainer gives a player a green light, and the player says they feel well enough to play, then I think the coach needs to play them.  

[Roy Hobbs]

Yea but if we would have gotten blown out by the Pacers and you read reports that Pierce said he could have played but Doc said he couldn't then you would be blasting Doc right now.

Pierce said he could play hurt and he did....he was still our most productive player and was a defensive liability at times not really because of his injury but because the match was just poor...he shouldn't be guarding Jones anyways.

Please, show me *one* example since I've been posting here where I said that Doc should have played an injured player to win a game.  If you can't, don't make insinuations you can't back up.

Most people are perfectly comfortable with Doc resting injured players.

[nickagneta]

Yea but if we would have gotten blown out by the Pacers and you read reports that Pierce said he could have played but Doc said he couldn't then you would be blasting Doc right now.

Pierce said he could play hurt and he did....he was still our most productive player and was a defensive liability at times not really because of his injury but because the match was just poor...he shouldn't be guarding Jones anyways.

Please, show me *one* example since I've been posting here where I said that Doc should have played an injured player to win a game.  If you can't, don't make insinuations you can't back up.

Most people are perfectly comfortable with Doc resting injured players.

Given how many times I've read your stuff Roy, and that's a lot, I can confirm that you haven't even hinted at that. Actually, you have consistently held the complete opposite of that opinion.

[nickagneta]

Now can someone who knows and wants to save me some time and earn a TP tell me if the C's medical staff ever said Pierce's knee was a sprain? I would be less concerned about a bruise.

Sprains, if while playing with them, someone overcompensates too much, can get worse and lead to other problems, ligaments, etc. All you can do with a bruise is hit it and aggravate it although, again, overcompensation can lead to other injuries.

[CelticG1]

We got this quote from Doc this morning:

Celtics' captain Paul Pierce (left knee sprain) practiced briefly Monday and will be held out of Tuesday's training session, according to coach Doc Rivers. Pierce's status for the Celtics-Golden State Warriors contest Wednesday has not been determined. . . .

"I shouldn't have played him," Rivers said of Pierce's appearance against the Pacers. "But he talked me into it."

Link.

Numerous times since he's been coach, Doc has said the exact same thing.  With Pierce in the past, Wally, Big Al, Ray, KG, etc., etc., we've heard "I shouldn't have played him, but I did".  The justification is either, "he talked me into it" or "we needed to win the game".

I think by and large, Doc has been a good coach for this group of veterans.  However, these excuses get old after awhile.

Just like when we were having this conversation a few years ago, this annoys me as well...but not because of Doc, but because of the trainer.  It is the trainers job to decide whether players are healthy enough to play without making anything worse.  That decision should be out of Doc's hands.  If Pierce is not healthy enough to play, the trainer should say that, and it should be the end of it.  

To force a coach, whose goal is to win games, make a medical decision on a player is reckless IMO.  If the trainer gives a player a green light, and the player says they feel well enough to play, then I think the coach needs to play them.  

I would be absolutely shocked if Pierce did not get the "OK" from the medical staff to play in this game. I would be very disappointed in Doc, the medical staff, and the whole Celtics organisation if Doc was the person that gives the green light on something like this. I'm sure that it went through the medical staff and after they cleared him it was up to Doc to let him play or not. As my college coach always said there is a difference between being hurt and being injured. If you are hurt you can play and if you are injured you can't. I'm sure Pierce was hurting a little but as far as I could tell he was not injured. He sat out one practice and has been playing since. I guess you could blame Doc if you don't think he should be playing someone that is hurting a little but if medical staff clears it, if you think Pierce looks ok, and Pierce is adamant that he is fine, what else can you ask of him? I'm sure maybe Doc wanted to be overly cautious and was thinking of keeping Pierce out but Pierce convinced him not to. I'm assuming that the injury was not anything major at all and that is why Pierce convinced Doc to let him play and why Doc was such a pushover. But now it's easy for Doc, in HINDSIGHT, because we lost the game, and Pierce played like crap, for him to say "oh i shouldn't have played him". If we won the game even if Pierce played like crap non of this would have been brought up at all.

[ManUp]

Rivers is a smooth talker. 

[Roy Hobbs]

Now can someone who knows and wants to save me some time and earn a TP tell me if the C's medical staff ever said Pierce's knee was a sprain? I would be less concerned about a bruise.

Sprains, if while playing with them, someone overcompensates too much, can get worse and lead to other problems, ligaments, etc. All you can do with a bruise is hit it and aggravate it although, again, overcompensation can lead to other injuries.

The November 15 Herald says:

Paul Pierce, playing through a sprained left MCL (not a bruise, as reported by the team), took the hit for that, but this was a team-wide issue.

I'm not sure if the medical staff ever publicly reported it as a sprain, though.  However, Celtics.com did:

On a night where Paul Pierce was recovering from a knee sprain suffered against the Hawks less than 24 hours earlier, someone needed to step up to help the Celtics hang around tonight in Indianapolis.

[nickagneta]

Now can someone who knows and wants to save me some time and earn a TP tell me if the C's medical staff ever said Pierce's knee was a sprain? I would be less concerned about a bruise.

Sprains, if while playing with them, someone overcompensates too much, can get worse and lead to other problems, ligaments, etc. All you can do with a bruise is hit it and aggravate it although, again, overcompensation can lead to other injuries.

The November 15 Herald says:

Paul Pierce, playing through a sprained left MCL (not a bruise, as reported by the team), took the hit for that, but this was a team-wide issue.

I'm not sure if the medical staff ever publicly reported it as a sprain, though.

TP. Like you need another.

Why can't this team get things right medically. I'm really starting to worry about their ability, medically speaking.

Big Al's misdiagnosed foot, the clearance to play Wally, Tony's extra length of rehabs on virtually every injury he has sustained, KG's knee, now they don't know the difference between a bruise and a sprained MCL?

There's been some questionable stuff going on medically with this team for years and really the C's have not gotten called onto the carpet for it, for the most part that is.