RIP Len & Red

[dark_lord]

All good.  Just to be clear though, comparing Len to Christian Laettner is completely ridiculous.  Again, FANTASTIC college player, but never a shining light to the NBA.

i never compared bias to laetner....u had said:

Point is, if you ever watched him, the kid knew how to lead, how to play, and how to win. 

i just said that people said the same exact thing about laetner. while at duke, he was a great leader, knew how to play, and was a winner. 

[DivingCowens]

All good.  Just to be clear though, comparing Len to Christian Laettner is completely ridiculous.  Again, FANTASTIC college player, but never a shining light to the NBA.

i never compared bias to laetner....u had said:

Point is, if you ever watched him, the kid knew how to lead, how to play, and how to win. 

i just said that people said the same exact thing about laetner. while at duke, he was a great leader, knew how to play, and was a winner. 

It seemed as if you were making your Laettner comment regarding what I said about "sure thing" since that was the line immediately preceding your Laettner comment. "Of course nobody knows, but he was as much a "sure thing" as this league has ever seen."  Confusion solved and yes, people said those other things about him as well, but nobody thought was a good NBA fit was all I meant.  So, we all agree, THAT comparison would be laughable.

[Silas]

I watched every college game that Bias played.  He was nothing like Jordan.  Bias came to Maryland as a 6'8" shooter...nothing else.  His vertical leap was incredible and he basically could shoot over anyone.  Each year he learned how to be a complete player and dominate.  Jordan was a jumper in college with a suspect shot but could finish better than anyone else.  Bias had the shot and learned to finish.  No question he would have dominated in the pros.

                 MIN   FG%   3P%   FT%  RPG  APG  TPG  BPG  SPG   PPG
82-83 Maryland   22.0  47.8  27.3  63.6  4.2  0.7  1.1  0.5  0.3   7.2
83-84 Maryland   34.5  56.7        76.7  4.5  1.5  1.5  0.8  0.4  15.3
84-85 Maryland   36.5  52.8        77.7  6.8  1.8  3.1  0.9  0.9  18.9
85-86 Maryland   37.0  54.4        86.4  7.0  1.0  2.8  0.4  0.8  23.2
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS           32.8  53.6  27.3  79.5  5.7  1.3  2.2  0.7  0.6  16.4

[dark_lord]

I watched every college game that Bias played.  He was nothing like Jordan.  Bias came to Maryland as a 6'8" shooter...nothing else.  His vertical leap was incredible and he basically could shoot over anyone.  Each year he learned how to be a complete player and dominate.  Jordan was a jumper in college with a suspect shot but could finish better than anyone else.  Bias had the shot and learned to finish.  No question he would have dominated in the pros.

                 MIN   FG%   3P%   FT%  RPG  APG  TPG  BPG  SPG   PPG
82-83 Maryland   22.0  47.8  27.3  63.6  4.2  0.7  1.1  0.5  0.3   7.2
83-84 Maryland   34.5  56.7        76.7  4.5  1.5  1.5  0.8  0.4  15.3
84-85 Maryland   36.5  52.8        77.7  6.8  1.8  3.1  0.9  0.9  18.9
85-86 Maryland   37.0  54.4        86.4  7.0  1.0  2.8  0.4  0.8  23.2
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS           32.8  53.6  27.3  79.5  5.7  1.3  2.2  0.7  0.6  16.4

their scouting reports had very similar reports regarding their skill set, not necessarily their style of game.  thats what i had said. i made no mention that they had identical styles of game.

again, claiming bias would be dominate are both unfounded and an assumption at this stage.

truth is, many of the scouting reports were very identical to michael jordans scouting reports, with regards to skill set.

[EJPLAYA]

Putting Len Bias in the same breath as Red is about as disrespectful to his memory as about anything one could do. Bias was a druggie punk who cut his life short. Red WAS the Celtics. Reading that Subject line made me cringe...

[DivingCowens]

Get over yourself Playa.  You never mad a bad choice in your life?  Why not just be thankful that yours didn't kill you.  Red loved Len, as a player and as a kid.  He wouldn't support your post himself!  The point was more towards the 'curse' than drawing any equivalence in their respective importance.  Of course it's not even a discussion.  But you would be all alone if you said you weren't living in a glass house on this one.  And if you think Bias was a "druggie punk" than what on earth do you think of the players in this league who are nefariously abusing drugs, alcohol, and more?  Again, their just lucky each time it doesn't kill them.

[Bahku]

 ... and Reggie Lewis, and Dennis Johnson, and Grady Rivers. Truly sad that we'll never know what this team would have been like with Len ... he was an exciting prospect to say the least.

For of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these: "It might have been!"
                             
                                                 - John Greenleaf Whittier

[EJPLAYA]

Get over yourself Playa.  You never mad a bad choice in your life?  Why not just be thankful that yours didn't kill you.  Red loved Len, as a player and as a kid.  He wouldn't support your post himself!  The point was more towards the 'curse' than drawing any equivalence in their respective importance.  Of course it's not even a discussion.  But you would be all alone if you said you weren't living in a glass house on this one.  And if you think Bias was a "druggie punk" than what on earth do you think of the players in this league who are nefariously abusing drugs, alcohol, and more?  Again, their just lucky each time it doesn't kill them.

Get over myself?! How is saying that those two shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath have anything to do with me being FULL of myself?! That comment had nothing to do with me.  Just because there are a lot of athletes in professional sports who are also "druggie punks" doesn't excuse the fact that he was one as well. As far as my own behavior, I don't nor have ever done drugs and so have no sympathy for those who do. I always considered it stupid as an athlete (well at least at one point in my life) to do things that would decrease my performance. If this punk kid didn't have the commitment to do that as well then it's not my fault. Just don't lump the guy in with Red as if he was some Celtic great or something. People throw him out there as someone who would have saved the Celtics. He could have also been a bust and with the fact that he decided drugs were more important to him than basketball, he was not very likely to have been that guy.

[Chief]

I read this a few weeks ago and it made me sad:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/longterm/memories/bias/launch/bias2.htm


This one makes me sadder:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/longterm/memories/bias/launch/bias1.htm