Will Joe stick with the double big line up vs Miami?

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

if we need zone busters then we need PP and hauser and MB and JB and JT to bombs away

whoever is hot keep shooting

still try to get to the hoop tho. if we need kickouts we need guys to hit threes as needed.

force them into a man on man where we can abuse them

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

I think he has to stay with two bigs.

He is

[ozgod]

Adam Himmelsbach presents some stats that show that Miami, particularly Buckets, has been abusing the double big lineup. Apparently the two-big lineup has been outscored by a whopping 51.6 points per 100 possessions against the Heat in two games. He thinks the Cs should go back to Derrick White in the starting lineup.

Celtics coach Joe Mazzulla helped swing the Eastern Conference semifinal series against the 76ers in Boston’s favor by putting center Robert Williams back in the starting lineup in Game 6 in place of Derrick White. Williams gave the Celtics another body to throw at league MVP Joel Embiid, and P.J. Tucker’s limitations allowed Williams to act more as a roamer on defense.

Mazzulla has stuck with the same group against the Heat in the conference finals, but it has not gone well. In 14 minutes together, the double-big pairing of Williams and Al Horford has been outscored by 51.6 points per 100 possessions. Yes, that’s an extremely small sample size, but the Heat simply pose different challenges.

Jimmy Butler has actively sought out matchups with Williams in space, and Horford has struggled to contain center Bam Adebayo. Mazzulla seemed to have some reluctance about the double-big group after Game 1. When he was asked about it, he paused for about two seconds before answering.

“That’s a good question,” he said. “Like I said, I thought each lineup presented things that did well.”

Then the Horford/Williams pairing returned at the start of Game 2 and lasted less than five minutes, as the Heat took a 4-point lead. The two never shared the court again.

White, an All-Defensive team selection, blocked two of Butler’s shots in Game 2 and continues to be a force from beyond the arc. He’s made 6 of 10 3-pointers in this series and the Celtics have a plus-9.0 rating with him on the court. Malcolm Brogdon is the only other Celtic with a positive rating in the series.

But White hasn’t played more than 23 minutes in any of the last four games. It’s time for him to reenter the starting lineup in Game 3.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/05/20/sports/its-time-celtics-coach-joe-mazzulla-put-derrick-white-back-starting-lineup-game-3-against-heat/

Thoughts? Horses for courses or stick with what worked well vs Philly?

[RodyTur10]

I'd go back to a one big line-up. But with Robert Williams.
So start White/Smart/Tatum/Brown/Williams.
And bring Brogdon/Hauser/Horford off the bench.

[jpotter33]

Yeah, it doesn’t seem like the two big lineup is going to work here. But that also doesn’t mean bury Timelord either. Timelord simply has to play more with Al so awful, particularly on the boards and not contributing offensively.

[Neurotic Guy]

I'd go back to a one big line-up. But with Robert Williams.
So start White/Smart/Tatum/Brown/Williams.
And bring Brogdon/Hauser/Horford off the bench.

No Grant?

[blink]

I'd go back to a one big line-up. But with Robert Williams.
So start White/Smart/Tatum/Brown/Williams.
And bring Brogdon/Hauser/Horford off the bench.

No Grant?

I think Grant earned some PT for today based on the last game.  It isn't his fault that our coach allowed him to get burned over and over again by Butler.
He was out there with some fire and competing.

[GetLucky]

Yeah, it doesn’t seem like the two big lineup is going to work here. But that also doesn’t mean bury Timelord either. Timelord simply has to play more with Al so awful, particularly on the boards and not contributing offensively.

Agreed, the Celtics will win this series with Mazulla ball -- a healthy dose of White and only one true big on the floor. Al should have a shorter leash. Even if Rob's not perfect, he's at least been a net positive in more areas. I also thought Grant played well, even though Butler hit some tough shots.

[The Oracle]

In the 2 games so far.

R. Will/G. Will    17 minutes +8
Horford/R. Will   14 minutes -16 
Horford/G. Will    8 minutes -14

Horford only big on floor 39 minutes +12
R. Will. only big on floor 18 minutes +1

It is a tough call because there is a logical answer from Miami no matter how the C's decide to play.  Going small to start is the obvious/likely change though.  In reality the C's just have to play better.

 

[RodyTur10]

I'd go back to a one big line-up. But with Robert Williams.
So start White/Smart/Tatum/Brown/Williams.
And bring Brogdon/Hauser/Horford off the bench.

No Grant?

I believe we should play at a fast pace and wear our opponent out and take advantage of our depth. In that situation I can see more minutes opening up for Pritchard, Grant or even Muscala or Griffin. Wouldn't be afraid to do that. But I'm high on Hauser and believe his elite shooting would help a lot. Pritchard and Grant got torched on defense anyway, so Hauser could hardly do worse in that aspect.

The Celtics are ridiculously deep. We could sustain 3 or 4 injuries (as long it's not Tatum) and we'd still be fine.

[Neurotic Guy]

I'd go back to a one big line-up. But with Robert Williams.
So start White/Smart/Tatum/Brown/Williams.
And bring Brogdon/Hauser/Horford off the bench.

No Grant?

I believe we should play at a fast pace and wear our opponent out and take advantage of our depth. In that situation I can see more minutes opening up for Pritchard, Grant or even Muscala or Griffin. Wouldn't be afraid to do that. But I'm high on Hauser and believe his elite shooting would help a lot. Pritchard and Grant got torched on defense anyway, so Hauser could hardly do worse in that aspect.

The Celtics are ridiculously deep. We could sustain 3 or 4 injuries (as long it's not Tatum) and we'd still be fine.

I’m wondering when the last time was that Hauser or Pritchard made a shot in an NBA game.  It wasn’t in mop-up minutes last week.  I don’t think either have made a shot since the regular season.  They are pros, “always ready” I guess. But throw them into the middle of a must win tonight - it’s a lot to ask imo. I like both but wish they’d been given a little run before now.

[gouki88]

Adam Himmelsbach presents some stats that show that Miami, particularly Buckets, has been abusing the double big lineup. Apparently the two-big lineup has been outscored by a whopping 51.6 points per 100 possessions against the Heat in two games. He thinks the Cs should go back to Derrick White in the starting lineup.

Celtics coach Joe Mazzulla helped swing the Eastern Conference semifinal series against the 76ers in Boston’s favor by putting center Robert Williams back in the starting lineup in Game 6 in place of Derrick White. Williams gave the Celtics another body to throw at league MVP Joel Embiid, and P.J. Tucker’s limitations allowed Williams to act more as a roamer on defense.

Mazzulla has stuck with the same group against the Heat in the conference finals, but it has not gone well. In 14 minutes together, the double-big pairing of Williams and Al Horford has been outscored by 51.6 points per 100 possessions. Yes, that’s an extremely small sample size, but the Heat simply pose different challenges.

Jimmy Butler has actively sought out matchups with Williams in space, and Horford has struggled to contain center Bam Adebayo. Mazzulla seemed to have some reluctance about the double-big group after Game 1. When he was asked about it, he paused for about two seconds before answering.

“That’s a good question,” he said. “Like I said, I thought each lineup presented things that did well.”

Then the Horford/Williams pairing returned at the start of Game 2 and lasted less than five minutes, as the Heat took a 4-point lead. The two never shared the court again.

White, an All-Defensive team selection, blocked two of Butler’s shots in Game 2 and continues to be a force from beyond the arc. He’s made 6 of 10 3-pointers in this series and the Celtics have a plus-9.0 rating with him on the court. Malcolm Brogdon is the only other Celtic with a positive rating in the series.

But White hasn’t played more than 23 minutes in any of the last four games. It’s time for him to reenter the starting lineup in Game 3.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/05/20/sports/its-time-celtics-coach-joe-mazzulla-put-derrick-white-back-starting-lineup-game-3-against-heat/

Thoughts? Horses for courses or stick with what worked well vs Philly?

I think that is in large part a function of Horford being so bad this series. Timelord's scoring and offensive rebounding have been really valuable to start games.