Report: Celtics still looking to utilize trade exception?

[SHAQATTACK]

And poof ……it was gone 

Vanished into thin air .

That's not until these evening at the stroke of midnight, but I'm sure your same quote will do.

Poor Cinda Feller

She ‘s sweeping floors and Ime is reptilian now .

[Vermont Green]

Someone suggested in another post that we shouldn't necessarily attribute all of the tax that is created by adding one player, solely to that player since the tax is really the result of the aggregate of all salaries.  That is true and that is fair but it is also hard to do.  Horford is for example as much responsible for the tax as Gallinari is, more actually.  So it isn't fair to say Gallinari is really costing the team $6.4M X 3 or however it works.  But I get it that it feels that way.
...

I was going to bring this up in my post just above.  While it's true that all salaries contribute to the tax in a pro-rated manner, the stark reality is that ownership is trying to decide NOW on adding more salary (via TPE).  The incremental tax of using the TPE MUST BE part of the consideration in spite of the fact that all salaries contribute to the total team salary.

One thing to keep in mind though is that the tax is calculated based on your salary at the end of the season.  So we could for example bring in a player but trade White at the deadline and reduce our salary and not have to pay tax on White's salary.  This seems like a loop hole but I am pretty sure this is how it works.  It would be a risky move as you might not be able to dump salary at the deadline but it is a way to work around this.

I actually expect that White will get traded or at a minimum, he is at high risk.  Probably to bring back something, not just to dump.  But it doesn't have to happen all at the same time.  We could have brought in someone now and traded White at the deadline and ended up paying the same tax as if we had done the trade all at once now.

I know it's a hypothetical but I see people still looking to trade white.  With brogdon's injury history, I'm thinking White will still be a very important part of this team.  I'm not trading anyone.

Yeah.  My guess is that if we're looking to trade White at the deadline it means that something has gone wrong, and he won't have a lot of value.  I think that dumping a multi-year contract  is harder than some think.

I specifically said trade him to get something back, not just to dump.  I agree that White is a valuable player.  For example, if Horford suffers a serious injury, we may need a big more than we need White.

My comment wasn't aimed at you.  Throughout the forums, some have made an argument of "add salary now, dump salary later", as if it's a given that we're able to do that.  If we find ourselves in a situation where we need to dump salary at the deadline, it's probably going to cost us something of value.

I suppose the best case scenario (to bring the guy up again) would have been to trade for an expiring player like Josh Richardson.  If he helps the team, fantastic.  If he doesn't, then it's likely that other teams will be okay adding him at the deadline.  But, even then, it would be hard to find another team that could absorb that contract without sending salary back.

OK, I see, yeah, the idea to use the Fournier TPE now (when we could) but then plan to trade White or some other contract later is risky.  First, you don't know what you might need later.  And even if you did get a really good deal on say a starting level big for a second round pick (which wasn't going to happen), then you are right, it isn't a given you would be able to trade White without taking salary back.  He could get injured for example.

But that is all moot now that the TPE expired.  We may trade White at the deadline but we are not going to dump him as you suggest.  I believe he is going to play well and would be of value at the trade deadline.  It all depends on what we need by then, if anything.

[Roy H.]

I'm curious, when do folks think that we'll add a center and a wing?

a)  As soon as Durant and/or Mitchell are traded;
b)  In training camp;
c)  Some random time not linked to any event;
d)  Not until the regular season

In other words, what's the holdup to filling out the roster?

[Roy H.]

Someone suggested in another post that we shouldn't necessarily attribute all of the tax that is created by adding one player, solely to that player since the tax is really the result of the aggregate of all salaries.  That is true and that is fair but it is also hard to do.  Horford is for example as much responsible for the tax as Gallinari is, more actually.  So it isn't fair to say Gallinari is really costing the team $6.4M X 3 or however it works.  But I get it that it feels that way.
...

I was going to bring this up in my post just above.  While it's true that all salaries contribute to the tax in a pro-rated manner, the stark reality is that ownership is trying to decide NOW on adding more salary (via TPE).  The incremental tax of using the TPE MUST BE part of the consideration in spite of the fact that all salaries contribute to the total team salary.

One thing to keep in mind though is that the tax is calculated based on your salary at the end of the season.  So we could for example bring in a player but trade White at the deadline and reduce our salary and not have to pay tax on White's salary.  This seems like a loop hole but I am pretty sure this is how it works.  It would be a risky move as you might not be able to dump salary at the deadline but it is a way to work around this.

I actually expect that White will get traded or at a minimum, he is at high risk.  Probably to bring back something, not just to dump.  But it doesn't have to happen all at the same time.  We could have brought in someone now and traded White at the deadline and ended up paying the same tax as if we had done the trade all at once now.

I know it's a hypothetical but I see people still looking to trade white.  With brogdon's injury history, I'm thinking White will still be a very important part of this team.  I'm not trading anyone.

Yeah.  My guess is that if we're looking to trade White at the deadline it means that something has gone wrong, and he won't have a lot of value.  I think that dumping a multi-year contract  is harder than some think.

I specifically said trade him to get something back, not just to dump.  I agree that White is a valuable player.  For example, if Horford suffers a serious injury, we may need a big more than we need White.

My comment wasn't aimed at you.  Throughout the forums, some have made an argument of "add salary now, dump salary later", as if it's a given that we're able to do that.  If we find ourselves in a situation where we need to dump salary at the deadline, it's probably going to cost us something of value.

I suppose the best case scenario (to bring the guy up again) would have been to trade for an expiring player like Josh Richardson.  If he helps the team, fantastic.  If he doesn't, then it's likely that other teams will be okay adding him at the deadline.  But, even then, it would be hard to find another team that could absorb that contract without sending salary back.

OK, I see, yeah, the idea to use the Fournier TPE now (when we could) but then plan to trade White or some other contract later is risky.  First, you don't know what you might need later.  And even if you did get a really good deal on say a starting level big for a second round pick (which wasn't going to happen), then you are right, it isn't a given you would be able to trade White without taking salary back.  He could get injured for example.

But that is all moot now that the TPE expired.  We may trade White at the deadline but we are not going to dump him as you suggest.  I believe he is going to play well and would be of value at the trade deadline.  It all depends on what we need by then, if anything.

Well, truth be told, I'm fine trading White if it somehow brought a long-term starting PF back.  Harrison Barnes or John Collins both work for me.

[Vermont Green]

Someone suggested in another post that we shouldn't necessarily attribute all of the tax that is created by adding one player, solely to that player since the tax is really the result of the aggregate of all salaries.  That is true and that is fair but it is also hard to do.  Horford is for example as much responsible for the tax as Gallinari is, more actually.  So it isn't fair to say Gallinari is really costing the team $6.4M X 3 or however it works.  But I get it that it feels that way.
...

I was going to bring this up in my post just above.  While it's true that all salaries contribute to the tax in a pro-rated manner, the stark reality is that ownership is trying to decide NOW on adding more salary (via TPE).  The incremental tax of using the TPE MUST BE part of the consideration in spite of the fact that all salaries contribute to the total team salary.

One thing to keep in mind though is that the tax is calculated based on your salary at the end of the season.  So we could for example bring in a player but trade White at the deadline and reduce our salary and not have to pay tax on White's salary.  This seems like a loop hole but I am pretty sure this is how it works.  It would be a risky move as you might not be able to dump salary at the deadline but it is a way to work around this.

I actually expect that White will get traded or at a minimum, he is at high risk.  Probably to bring back something, not just to dump.  But it doesn't have to happen all at the same time.  We could have brought in someone now and traded White at the deadline and ended up paying the same tax as if we had done the trade all at once now.

I know it's a hypothetical but I see people still looking to trade white.  With brogdon's injury history, I'm thinking White will still be a very important part of this team.  I'm not trading anyone.

Yeah.  My guess is that if we're looking to trade White at the deadline it means that something has gone wrong, and he won't have a lot of value.  I think that dumping a multi-year contract  is harder than some think.

I specifically said trade him to get something back, not just to dump.  I agree that White is a valuable player.  For example, if Horford suffers a serious injury, we may need a big more than we need White.

My comment wasn't aimed at you.  Throughout the forums, some have made an argument of "add salary now, dump salary later", as if it's a given that we're able to do that.  If we find ourselves in a situation where we need to dump salary at the deadline, it's probably going to cost us something of value.

I suppose the best case scenario (to bring the guy up again) would have been to trade for an expiring player like Josh Richardson.  If he helps the team, fantastic.  If he doesn't, then it's likely that other teams will be okay adding him at the deadline.  But, even then, it would be hard to find another team that could absorb that contract without sending salary back.

OK, I see, yeah, the idea to use the Fournier TPE now (when we could) but then plan to trade White or some other contract later is risky.  First, you don't know what you might need later.  And even if you did get a really good deal on say a starting level big for a second round pick (which wasn't going to happen), then you are right, it isn't a given you would be able to trade White without taking salary back.  He could get injured for example.

But that is all moot now that the TPE expired.  We may trade White at the deadline but we are not going to dump him as you suggest.  I believe he is going to play well and would be of value at the trade deadline.  It all depends on what we need by then, if anything.

Well, truth be told, I'm fine trading White if it somehow brought a long-term starting PF back.  Harrison Barnes or John Collins both work for me.

Exactly, something like that if it is ever on the table would be a good deal.

[Vermont Green]

I'm curious, when do folks think that we'll add a center and a wing?

a)  As soon as Durant and/or Mitchell are traded;
b)  In training camp;
c)  Some random time not linked to any event;
d)  Not until the regular season

In other words, what's the holdup to filling out the roster?

I think the "hold up" is that they are just in no hurry.  This is an insurance big that we don't even need to start the season, really.  The expectation is that along the way, Horford and RWill will miss time and they probably will.  But we can cover that with Gallinari and Grant up to a point.

Teams are going to need to cut down rosters so it is likely that some additional players will become available.  We have the smaller/mid-sized TPE to allow us to take a player rather than a team having to just buy them out.

It does not seem like the team is concerned about "missing out" by waiting.  I tend to agree.  There is nothing available now that something comparable won't be available down the line.  They are just keeping their options open.  I am fine with that.  There of course is some risk or opportunity cost in either case.  Sign the best  available now or just wait and see if something better comes along or some other need crops up.

I am curious about Hassan Whiteside though.  He seems like a solid bench big that would fit nicely into what we appear to need, and what many other teams would need.  There are teams still with MLE's and Bi-annuals so he does not necessarily need to take our min offer.  Is he really that much of a locker room issue that no one wants him?  Or is he maybe just waiting until all the MLEs and Bi-Annuals are off the board?  He has made enough money that he should not be worried about a few million.

[Celtics2021]

I'm curious, when do folks think that we'll add a center and a wing?

a)  As soon as Durant and/or Mitchell are traded;
b)  In training camp;
c)  Some random time not linked to any event;
d)  Not until the regular season

In other words, what's the holdup to filling out the roster?

Somewhere between A and C.  The league is definitely in a bit of a holding pattern because of those two, but there’s also a point in time, probably mid-August, where teams and players are going to move forward again and be done waiting — everyone saw how Simmons wasn’t resolved until the deadline last year, and that might happen again here.

I do think the Celtics aren’t going to go into training camp with only 11 guaranteed contracts, so before training camp.  I’m also not convinced that “another wing” is on the table beyond that wing just being a developing Juhann Begarin.

[gouki88]

I'm curious, when do folks think that we'll add a center and a wing?

a)  As soon as Durant and/or Mitchell are traded;
b)  In training camp;
c)  Some random time not linked to any event;
d)  Not until the regular season

In other words, what's the holdup to filling out the roster?

Regular season for me, unless someone we really like is bought out or something. I think Brad & Ime want to see how this roster works. They might not agree with the holes that some of us see.

Either that or C. Option A is fun, because it really does seem like any move of those two will be massive (good work Ainge). But I'm not sure what options our guys are considering.

[ozgod]

I'm curious, when do folks think that we'll add a center and a wing?

a)  As soon as Durant and/or Mitchell are traded;
b)  In training camp;
c)  Some random time not linked to any event;
d)  Not until the regular season

In other words, what's the holdup to filling out the roster?

I think the answer is c which will stretch into d. I don't think Brad is in any rush to fill it out. I can't remember if there's a deadline when the minimum number of players need to be signed, but I think he will wait until he finds the right person, and right now he probably hasn't yet. He knows we have a 10 strong rotation with another two with solid NBA experience in PP and Kornet and then you have Hauser and the 2 ways as well. That's plenty if you think about it, assuming he's not planning to trade any of the core. I'm guessing he will leave those slots open until either a need becomes clear during the season or somebody gets injured, OR if someone that really fits a need and our budget pops up (unlikely).

Ball handlers: Smart, Brogdon, White, PP, Davison
Wings: Tatum, Brown, GWill, Gallo, Hauser
Bigs: Al, Timelord, Kornet, Kabungele

There's always room for improvement to totally cover for all contingencies, and I agree it would be nice to have another "typical" wing behind Brown and Tatum as well as another "typical" big behind Al and Timelord, but that's a pretty decent, deep lineup all told.

[tenn_smoothie]

Brogdon and White can play catch & shoot wings, I think ??

[ozgod]

Brogdon and White can play catch & shoot wings, I think ??

Yes, we have a number of players who can fill multiple roles - Smart, Brogdon and White can play off the ball in catch and shoot roles, and Gallo can play as a big or a wing offensively. He would struggle to defend quicker wings but he can slide between those positions.

Whether White can shoot well enough is another thing 

[colincb]

.