Author Topic: Point Tatum key to winning it all  (Read 3155 times)

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Re: Point Tatum key to winning it all
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2022, 12:33:13 PM »

Offline td450

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This thread seemed to have gotten off track some but I am coming to it because I did not get a chance to see the 4th quarter until last night.  I saw Tatum playing like I had never seen him play before.  In the past, I would describe it as Tatum looking for his shot or his offense first but being a willing passer if he got doubled or if he saw an open cutter.  But he was usually looking to score first and then reacting off of that.

What he was doing in the 4th in Game 1 was he was actually running the offense, like Chris Paul would.  This may seem like a subtle difference but what I saw was him trying to run the offense, not be the first option of the offense.  And I don't think this was just about him being 3-17 or whatever it was.  I know I am not describing it very well but I saw a fundamental change in his approach in the 4th quarter.  The results speak for themselves.

I don't really get this take about Tatum. He was getting doubled and he wasn't making his normal shots. He just did what he needed to do, which was to not continue to force things. His contribution was that he was willing to stop trying to run the offense, like Chris Paul would. Instead, he drew doubles and just moved the ball. The killer shooting inflated the assists.

Occupying the attention of the defense is important, but he ultimately did less than any of the other C's out there.

Jaylen Brown ran the offense in the 4th quarter. He's the one who kept breaking the defense and making the right passes, and it all looked so great because Horford, White and Smart were all making open shots. Pritchard and Robert Williams also had nice moments.

« Last Edit: June 04, 2022, 01:35:56 PM by td450 »

Re: Point Tatum key to winning it all
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2022, 03:07:29 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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This thread seemed to have gotten off track some but I am coming to it because I did not get a chance to see the 4th quarter until last night.  I saw Tatum playing like I had never seen him play before.  In the past, I would describe it as Tatum looking for his shot or his offense first but being a willing passer if he got doubled or if he saw an open cutter.  But he was usually looking to score first and then reacting off of that.

What he was doing in the 4th in Game 1 was he was actually running the offense, like Chris Paul would.  This may seem like a subtle difference but what I saw was him trying to run the offense, not be the first option of the offense.  And I don't think this was just about him being 3-17 or whatever it was.  I know I am not describing it very well but I saw a fundamental change in his approach in the 4th quarter.  The results speak for themselves.

I don't really get this take about Tatum. He was getting doubled and he wasn't making his normal shots. He just did what he needed to do, which was to not continue to force things. His contribution was that he was willing to stop trying to run the offense, like Chris Paul would. Instead, he drew doubles and just moved the ball. The killer shooting inflated the assists.

Occupying the attention of the defense is important, but he ultimately did less than any of the other C's out there.

Jaylen Brown ran the offense in the 4th quarter. He's the one who kept breaking the defense and making the right passes, and it all looked so great because Horford, White and Smart were all making open shots. Pritchard and Robert Williams also had nice moments.

I know this is hard to explain but what I saw was that Tatum was bringing the ball up the court a lot, he was directing the team into a set (when it was something other than a quick up type play) and then we was getting the offense started with the first pass, usually out of a pick play that resulted in a double or some other rotation of the defense.  That is what I mean when I say "initiated" the offense.  He was starting the offense like a traditional PG normally would, but he was not at all looking for his shot out of that initial pick or whatever.  The ball came back around to him a few times and he took I think 3 shots but he was playing like a PG, not a team's #1 scoring option who passes when doubled.

I was trying to find some advanced stats to see if I could quantify this better but no luck.  His usage was low in that quarter because he took very few shots and didn't get to the line.  But the ball was in his hands plenty, especially at the start of the possession.

Again, I understand this was subtle but to me it was an important distinction.  Normally when he has the ball, he is playing to get a shot but he will pass when doubled.  In the fourth it was different.  He was already thinking pass even before the pick, even before the double came.  He was dribbling into the pick as a way to set up a pass, not as a way to get a shot.  He was finding the favorable match up.  Finding the hot hand (which was pretty much everyone I guess) as the first thought, not as a second thought if he couldn't find a shot for himself.

I don't know if this happened organically, just came out of the flow of the game or if it was something conscious by Tatum.  I think the latter.  If I am right, look for Tatum to get 10+ assists again, to have a box score more like Chris Paul.  That doesn't mean he won't take shots (and hopefully make some) but how he gets to a shot will be different.  In my mind, this is a brilliant way to deploy Tatum and to counter the way teams are defending him.  It is proactive to the double teaming, not reactive.

Re: Point Tatum key to winning it all
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2022, 03:43:25 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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This thread seemed to have gotten off track some but I am coming to it because I did not get a chance to see the 4th quarter until last night.  I saw Tatum playing like I had never seen him play before.  In the past, I would describe it as Tatum looking for his shot or his offense first but being a willing passer if he got doubled or if he saw an open cutter.  But he was usually looking to score first and then reacting off of that.

What he was doing in the 4th in Game 1 was he was actually running the offense, like Chris Paul would.  This may seem like a subtle difference but what I saw was him trying to run the offense, not be the first option of the offense.  And I don't think this was just about him being 3-17 or whatever it was.  I know I am not describing it very well but I saw a fundamental change in his approach in the 4th quarter.  The results speak for themselves.

I don't really get this take about Tatum. He was getting doubled and he wasn't making his normal shots. He just did what he needed to do, which was to not continue to force things. His contribution was that he was willing to stop trying to run the offense, like Chris Paul would. Instead, he drew doubles and just moved the ball. The killer shooting inflated the assists.

Occupying the attention of the defense is important, but he ultimately did less than any of the other C's out there.

Jaylen Brown ran the offense in the 4th quarter. He's the one who kept breaking the defense and making the right passes, and it all looked so great because Horford, White and Smart were all making open shots. Pritchard and Robert Williams also had nice moments.

I know this is hard to explain but what I saw was that Tatum was bringing the ball up the court a lot, he was directing the team into a set (when it was something other than a quick up type play) and then we was getting the offense started with the first pass, usually out of a pick play that resulted in a double or some other rotation of the defense.  That is what I mean when I say "initiated" the offense.  He was starting the offense like a traditional PG normally would, but he was not at all looking for his shot out of that initial pick or whatever.  The ball came back around to him a few times and he took I think 3 shots but he was playing like a PG, not a team's #1 scoring option who passes when doubled.

I was trying to find some advanced stats to see if I could quantify this better but no luck.  His usage was low in that quarter because he took very few shots and didn't get to the line.  But the ball was in his hands plenty, especially at the start of the possession.

Again, I understand this was subtle but to me it was an important distinction.  Normally when he has the ball, he is playing to get a shot but he will pass when doubled.  In the fourth it was different.  He was already thinking pass even before the pick, even before the double came.  He was dribbling into the pick as a way to set up a pass, not as a way to get a shot.  He was finding the favorable match up.  Finding the hot hand (which was pretty much everyone I guess) as the first thought, not as a second thought if he couldn't find a shot for himself.

I don't know if this happened organically, just came out of the flow of the game or if it was something conscious by Tatum.  I think the latter.  If I am right, look for Tatum to get 10+ assists again, to have a box score more like Chris Paul.  That doesn't mean he won't take shots (and hopefully make some) but how he gets to a shot will be different.  In my mind, this is a brilliant way to deploy Tatum and to counter the way teams are defending him.  It is proactive to the double teaming, not reactive.


 TP VG. Great summary.  I tend to think Ime has a lot to do with how Tatum was playing pass first ball.

Re: Point Tatum key to winning it all
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2022, 05:32:50 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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Its certainly one key, among many. Tatum needs to distribute well, the c's need to shoot well, Jaylen needs to juice the offense for stretches to spell Tatum, Smart needs to cover curry well, the c's need to keep the warriors of the O boards. Those are just a few.