The Move Danny Ainge Of the 2000s Would Make

[GreenlyGreeny]

Throw in the 2025 pick and/or swaps if necessary:

https://tradenba.com/trades/b50xuetX1

We instantly go from one of the worst front courts to one of the better ones, and give Tatum his BBB (best basketball buddy), who just happens to be leading the league in PPG.

Meanwhile, we only have to face Jaylen twice per year unless we meet in the Finals. No hard feelings either because he gets to still play for one of the best clubs in the league in the town he played college ball.

A dynamic that cannot be overlooked: It’s a players’ league and we gotta keep our superstar (Tatum) happy so let’s give him his BBB. If we were able to salary dump Kemba and move pieces, we could possibly add a big free agent in 2021, 2022 or 2023 to play alongside our core of Tatum, Beal and Wiseman because of Wiseman’s rookie contract. Imagine if Kawhi forced a sign-and-trade to us? What if he’s pals with Tatum and Beal, and is fed up with the Lakers? Who knows who might force a trade to us, become our version of Harden, in the Tatum/Beal buddy show?

Without moving Jaylen, we probably cannot improve. But we probably cannot move Brown unless we’re bringing in Beal because we gotta keep Jayson happy. But we need a third piece and that’s where Wiseman comes in. Helping GSW dump Oubre (and save $70 million in luxury taxes in a lost season) is what makes the magic happen.

[gouki88]

So you attempt to derail another thread with this post, yet another Beal idea, and you make another thread about it?

[GreenlyGreeny]

So you attempt to derail another thread with this post, yet another Beal idea, and you make another thread about it?

Look, I’m as frustrated as the rest of us with what is happening to our beloved Celtics. Our record tells us exactly what we are 40 games into the first season of the Tatum/Brown era.

Here’s the deal: The Tatum/Brown duo is not good enough and there’s no path forward without moving Brown. But if we move Brown, we better keep Tatum happy with Beal. But we still know that Tatum/Beal is not good enough either. So what’s the path forward? Maybe the above? That’s the whole purpose of this thread.

And plenty of folks are sick of hearing Tatum/Brown is good enough when we all know in our hearts that it is not true. .500 is enough for some fans, but not Celtics fans.

[gouki88]

So you attempt to derail another thread with this post, yet another Beal idea, and you make another thread about it?

Look, I’m as frustrated as the rest of us with what is happening to our beloved Celtics. Our record tells us exactly what we are 40 games into the first season of the Tatum/Brown era.

Here’s the deal: The Tatum/Brown duo is not good enough and there’s no path forward without moving Brown. But if we move Brown, we better keep Tatum happy with Beal. But we still know that Tatum/Beal is not good enough either. So what’s the path forward? Maybe the above? That’s the whole purpose of this thread.

And plenty of folks are sick of hearing Tatum/Brown is good enough when we all know in our hearts that it is not true. .500 is enough for some fans, but not Celtics fans.

How do you know there is no path forward without moving Brown? You can't just keep pretending your opinions are inarguable facts and not expect to get challenged

[GreenlyGreeny]

So you attempt to derail another thread with this post, yet another Beal idea, and you make another thread about it?

Look, I’m as frustrated as the rest of us with what is happening to our beloved Celtics. Our record tells us exactly what we are 40 games into the first season of the Tatum/Brown era.

Here’s the deal: The Tatum/Brown duo is not good enough and there’s no path forward without moving Brown. But if we move Brown, we better keep Tatum happy with Beal. But we still know that Tatum/Beal is not good enough either. So what’s the path forward? Maybe the above? That’s the whole purpose of this thread.

And plenty of folks are sick of hearing Tatum/Brown is good enough when we all know in our hearts that it is not true. .500 is enough for some fans, but not Celtics fans.

How do you know there is no path forward without moving Brown? You can't just keep pretending your opinions are inarguable facts and not expect to get challenged

We’re .500. Our point differential without Tatum and Brown on the court is better than our point differential with only Brown on the court. Everything in the universe, including the lack of apparent friendship between Tatum and Brown, is making it clear that we gotta move Brown if the opportunity is there to get Beal. Players’ league is run by superstars and Tatum is the superstar here, not Brown.

Our chips at this point are worthless other than Brown and some possible value in R. Williams, Nesmith and Langford, at least in some corners (I’m high on Pritchard and think we gotta keep him as our future facilitator/glue-guy PG). It’s really a mathematical equation at this point. Unless we’re certain one of those three is going to become as good as Brown or darn close to it, we gotta make a move and that means moving Brown while he’s at an all-time high in desirability, especially with GSW looking to unload $70 million in luxury taxes in this non-championship/pandemic season.

[gouki88]

So you attempt to derail another thread with this post, yet another Beal idea, and you make another thread about it?

Look, I’m as frustrated as the rest of us with what is happening to our beloved Celtics. Our record tells us exactly what we are 40 games into the first season of the Tatum/Brown era.

Here’s the deal: The Tatum/Brown duo is not good enough and there’s no path forward without moving Brown. But if we move Brown, we better keep Tatum happy with Beal. But we still know that Tatum/Beal is not good enough either. So what’s the path forward? Maybe the above? That’s the whole purpose of this thread.

And plenty of folks are sick of hearing Tatum/Brown is good enough when we all know in our hearts that it is not true. .500 is enough for some fans, but not Celtics fans.

How do you know there is no path forward without moving Brown? You can't just keep pretending your opinions are inarguable facts and not expect to get challenged

We’re .500. Our point differential without Tatum and Brown on the court is better than our point differential with only Brown on the court. Everything in the universe, including the lack of apparent friendship between Tatum and Brown, is making it clear that we gotta move Brown if the opportunity is there to get Beal. Players’ league is run by superstars and Tatum is the superstar here, not Brown.

Our chips at this point are worthless other than Brown and some possible value in R. Williams, Nesmith and Langford, at least in some corners (I’m high on Pritchard and think we gotta keep him as our future facilitator/glue-guy PG). It’s really a mathematical equation at this point. Unless we’re certain one of those three is going to become as good as Brown or darn close to it, we gotta make a move and that means moving Brown while he’s at an all-time high in desirability, especially with GSW looking to unload $70 million in luxury taxes in this non-championship/pandemic season.

This leap is pretty far-fetched to be honest. Because you're not privy to their friendship (which is apparent, no idea what you're on about there) they are therefore not friends, and we need to ship out Brown?
The assumption that such a deal instantly improves us is also pretty weird. Beal has been a good #2 on fringe playoff teams. Brown has been a good #2 on numerous Eastern Conference Finalists. Beal is currently the #1 on a garbage team, which doesn't really mean anything because his looks and touches would be totally different.

Our chips are pointless because...? Why? There you go again, pushing your opinions as fact. NBA insiders believe Kemba is drawing interest from teams like Orlando, Smart certainly would have trade value, as well as our young guys and our picks - all of which could be combined with our TPE.

GSW look to unload their massive salary issues by adding Brown, a near-max guy, to their team which already has a super-max contract (Curry), two max deals (Wiggins and Klay) and another near-max deal in Draymond, while giving up their only significant expiring and their only cost-controlled young talent? You realise that makes no sense right? Golden State would have roughly $164 million locked up in Curry, Klay, Brown, Wiggins and Draymond next season.
Am I missing something? Why would GSW be interested at all?

[Celtics4ever]

I too think some of bench guys you would have to attach picks to get a team to take them. Teague, Waters, Edwards, Grant, Tacko and Green are all prime examples.  So some of our chips are quite stale.

I like Brown, I think his defense if under rated especially in the playoffs.   I must be the only guy who recalls him destroying Siakam on D in the playoffs.

Look, I’m as frustrated as the rest of us with what is happening to our beloved Celtics. Our record tells us exactly what we are 40 games into the first season of the Tatum/Brown era.

Here’s the deal: The Tatum/Brown duo is not good enough and there’s no path forward without moving Brown. But if we move Brown, we better keep Tatum happy with Beal. But we still know that Tatum/Beal is not good enough either. So what’s the path forward? Maybe the above? That’s the whole purpose of this thread.

I disagree, it is the supporting cast.   We have bums off the bench and no depth.   We tend to hang with teams with Brown and Tatum.   But when you have to sub in the Grant Williams and Semis of the world  and JT and JB have to rest our lack of depth is exposed.   It was a problem last year as well.

Even MJ had bench help.  Our role players off the bench are nigh useless.   Rob is great, PP can be good at times.   Smart is solid  and depending on the C rotation Theis when he comes off the bench.   We have a horde of guys who are better are holding than the seats than being NBA players.   It is on Ainge, he loves these guys and thinks they can help but he is pretty off in this regard.

Ainge qoutes

One night, Daniel Theis looks great and gets to play more. One night Robert Williams, one night Tristan, one night Grant, one night Semi.

We all see, we all see the world differently in the value of players, and it’s not that, you know, I value our players more than anybody else values their players, like, we all like and dislike some things about our teams.

You can count Grant and Semi's good games each season on your thumbs.   He loves these guys and that is the problem.  We need to upgrade our bench.   That is what a team like Utah has over us.   Even mediocre teams exploit our weak bench.  This was a problem last year too.  I love Danny as a player and GM but he is off base here.   Upgrade some of our bench, please.

From this qoute, I doubt Brown is going anywhere.   He is not the problem, our bench is the problem.  No depth.

[fmbl24]

So you attempt to derail another thread with this post, yet another Beal idea, and you make another thread about it?

Here’s the deal: The Tatum/Brown duo is not good enough and there’s no path forward without moving Brown. But if we move Brown, we better keep Tatum happy with Beal. But we still know that Tatum/Beal is not good enough either. So what’s the path forward? Maybe the above? That’s the whole purpose of this thread.

And plenty of folks are sick of hearing Tatum/Brown is good enough when we all know in our hearts that it is not true. .500 is enough for some fans, but not Celtics fans.

You could have said the same thing about the Golden State Warriors in 2013, except their young stars, Curry and Thompson, were a few years older than Brown and Tatum. Their roster was young too, with 5 rookies on their roster. They hovered around .500 for much of the season then ended up winning 44 games.

My point is, young players, young stars, years away from their prime, tend to improve.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/2013.html

[GreenlyGreeny]

I may be wrong. Perhaps all we need for now is a different mix of veteran depth while Tatum, Brown, R. Williams, Nesmith and Pritchard continue to grow. To get that depth, I’m extremely confident that we can part ways with G. Williams, Langford, Edwards and Green without missing a beat now or in the future (i.e., pretty sure they’ll all be out of the league in 3-4 years).

In addition, second round picks are the most overrated thing in the league in general, so I’m always willing to move those for quality vets (unless I know for sure the pick is going to be top 40).

I also believe that Kemba is not the right PG for this team, so I’m back on my hobbyhorse of shipping him out for the return of Horford, whose familiarity and consistency is exactly what Tatum/Brown need right now.

If we could pull off this, I’d be thrilled and with a few lucky bounces we could possibly win it all:

https://tradenba.com/trades/xOed2umWN

Smart/Hill/Pritchard
Brown/Ellington/Teague
Tatum/Barnes/Nesmith
Horford/Theis/Ojeyele
TT/Timelord

Barnes is 6MOTY material and would dominate against other benches. He would also be essential late in games when we need three or four good shooters on the floor, so we can play him at the 3 with Tatum at 4 and Horford at 5 (unless we need TT to defend a dominant 5 like Embiid).

We’d have these folks under contract in the off-season, so obviously re-signing Theis would be a top priority (important piece of the depth puzzle for the next 3-5 years):

Smart/Hill/Pritchard
Brown
Tatum/Barnes/Nesmith
Horford
TT/Timelord

Still have all the picks below, too, along with Yam Madar, so plenty of opportunity to replenish the youth over time (in the off-season, I’d try moving Hill and the 2023 2nd and 2025 BOS 2nd for a younger quality backup SG with Pritchard moving up to our backup PG):

2021 1st
2022 1st
2023 1st
2023 2nd (DAL/HOU/MIA)
2024 1st
2025 1st
2025 2nd
2025 2nd (MEM)

Smart/Pritchard/Madar
Brown/Quality vet (See Hill Trade Idea)
Tatum/Barnes/Nesmith
Horford/Theis/2021 1st who can play 4/5
TT/Timelord

[Csfan1984]

DA from the 2000s from the outside looking in would say this team isn't good enough and he would have a fire sale accepting bad contracts and picks. He would trade Brown and Kemba for 60 cents on the dollar and everyone else on the team only keeping Tatum. After two or three years of tanking as well as two coaches he would trade all his assets for Booker and Jokic.

[Celtics4ever]

DA from the 2000s from the outside looking in would say this team isn't good enough and he would have a fire sale accepting bad contracts and picks. He would trade Brown and Kemba for 60 cents on the dollar and everyone else on the team only keeping Tatum. After two or three years of tanking as well as two coaches he would trade all his assets for Booker and Jokic.

I wish he would get rid of the dead weight guys and   have a fire sale accepting bad contracts and picks.    I am for getting rid of Kemba but not ready to give up on Brown.  But keep Brown, Tatum and Rob as your core.   Possibly, Smart and Pritchard might be keepers but every one else needs to go.   The G leaguers as our bench experiment needs to end.   I think if we even had some regular bench scoring we'd be winning some of these guys.

Last night said it all when Theis took off his jersey at the end of the game before it was over.

[Csfan1984]

DA from the 2000s from the outside looking in would say this team isn't good enough and he would have a fire sale accepting bad contracts and picks. He would trade Brown and Kemba for 60 cents on the dollar and everyone else on the team only keeping Tatum. After two or three years of tanking as well as two coaches he would trade all his assets for Booker and Jokic.

I wish he would get rid of the dead weight guys and   have a fire sale accepting bad contracts and picks.    I am for getting rid of Kemba but not ready to give up on Brown.  But keep Brown, Tatum and Rob as your core.   Possibly, Smart and Pritchard might be keepers but every one else needs to go.   The G leaguers as our bench experiment needs to end.   I think if we even had some regular bench scoring we'd be winning some of these guys.

Last night said it all when Theis took off his jersey at the end of the game before it was over.

I would not call them dead weight. Think all of them are 13th-17th* guys. Problem is that they are asked to be as high as 8th men. And there are more end of bench guys then there should be if any team wants to compete and develop players. DA drafted too many guys without moving on deals. In any season you want 4 to 5 young guys developing not 9 guys.

[Celtics2021]

I too think some of bench guys you would have to attach picks to get a team to take them. Teague, Waters, Edwards, Grant, Tacko and Green are all prime examples.  So some of our chips are quite stale.

You wouldn’t have to attach picks to any of the players listed above for another team to take them.  That’s utter nonsense.  Grant is probably the only one who could fetch you back a second or two in return, but the rest are all flotsam that have neither positive nor negative value.

[Celtics4ever]

I would not call them dead weight. Think all of them are 13th-17th* guys. Problem is that they are asked to be as high as 8th men.

It's not their fault, CBS and Ainge went on the "good guys" mode after Kyrie.   Trouble is not all our "good guys" can play... I agree with that 100%  They were put in positions their ability does not merit.

I think some of these guys have very finite ceilings.   Grant simply is not going to get much better.  Semi and PP seem to max out their talent.  Nesmith has some athletic ability but seems a wallflower in terms of shot aggressiveness.   Romeo is completely unreliable more help to Boston Doctor's wallets than the C's.   Carsen is too big of a confidence guy and stinks if he misses his first shot.  Waters is small and Tacko seems more of novelty.   

That is what I would try to get some veterans to help out the Jays some of these guys and draft assets to a selling team.   I am not of the opinion we can swing a major trade ( I hope I am wrong) but some minor ones that help the bench could help us in a big way because there is a definite lack of production in many the above names.