Poll: Who's the worst starting Center in the NBA?

[tstorey_97]

Not sure what the post is looking for.

"Theis is bad?"

Or

"The center position in the NBA is populated by a lot of average to below average athletes who happen to be really tall and coordinated enough to put on a show near the rim."

Or

"NBA management feels obligated to keep a "tall guy" in the starting lineup because that's what everyone else does." (unwritten rule)

Brad Stevens would just a soon as have 5 shooting guards on the floor he just needs to have a tall guy for the occasional matchup.

Belichick refuses to spend draft capital (high picks) or salary cap space on "pass rushers."

Ainge refuses to spend money or draft capital on tall guys (except for one).

I'm searching here and, at the end of the rainbow I find a a "4 time German league all star"  a German league "best young player" (2014) and three time "German league champion" whom is 6'8" 245 pounds and is our starting center because our President of basketball operations couldn't trade half the team for the best center in the league, Anthony Davis.

The Celtics are 17-5 with Theis playing 20 minutes a game.

If this guy is hurting us? I want to know how bad.
 

[Moranis]

Theis isn't even the best center on the roster.  That is Kanter.  By virtually every metric, Kanter has been the better player.  He scores, rebounds, assists, steals, better than Theis.  Kanter turns it over less.  He generates foul shots better.  Theis is a better shot blocker and a better team defender, though I think you could argue Kanter is better in man coverage.  That really is about the only place Theis is better though. 

That is why this is a strange poll.  So many of the "starting" centers aren't the best centers on the roster.  Boston, LA, NY (Robinson is clearly their best center), etc. or teams like the Mavs where the best center technically starts at PF or the Suns where the best center is suspended. 

[footey]

Theis isn't even the best center on the roster.  That is Kanter.  By virtually every metric, Kanter has been the better player.  He scores, rebounds, assists, steals, better than Theis.  Kanter turns it over less.  He generates foul shots better.  Theis is a better shot blocker and a better team defender, though I think you could argue Kanter is better in man coverage.  That really is about the only place Theis is better though. 

That is why this is a strange poll.  So many of the "starting" centers aren't the best centers on the roster.  Boston, LA, NY (Robinson is clearly their best center), etc. or teams like the Mavs where the best center technically starts at PF or the Suns where the best center is suspended.

Theis is our best center this season, thus far.  Stop looking at stats, and look at results, especially on the defensive end. To suggest Kanter is playing better at the center position than Theis this season is very odd to me.

[Fafnir]

Team defense is the single most important thing for a Center who's playing with 4 higher usage players.

Also on the defensive glass he's been better than Kanter, he's just not the bulldozer for offensive rebounds. And offensive rebounds matter less when you have your best offensive players on the floor.

[Sophomore]

Theis isn't even the best center on the roster.  That is Kanter.  By virtually every metric, Kanter has been the better player.  He scores, rebounds, assists, steals, better than Theis.  Kanter turns it over less.  He generates foul shots better.  Theis is a better shot blocker and a better team defender, though I think you could argue Kanter is better in man coverage.  That really is about the only place Theis is better though. 

That is why this is a strange poll.  So many of the "starting" centers aren't the best centers on the roster.  Boston, LA, NY (Robinson is clearly their best center), etc. or teams like the Mavs where the best center technically starts at PF or the Suns where the best center is suspended.

For this Celtics team, given the shot creators we have, doesn't being better on defense mean Theis is better? And, let's note, he's much, much better except against the really huge centers. Plays on a string with the other players, calls out plays. He doesn't need to take a lot of shots!

Kanter's main advantages on offense are O-rebounds and post-ups. I can't knock the O rebounds. I love them. But to me that's swamped by his atrocious defense. And his post-ups? Do we really need them, given the other players in the first string? I'd rather have the ball whipping around than dumping it in to Kanter and letting four players watch him bump to the basket.

And don't forget the other facilitating role Theis plays on offense. He sets as good a screen as Kanter (at least) and he's better as a roll man after the pick. He certainly finishes more of them.

Against a huge big, especially if there isn't a great PG or wing to start the pick and roll, Kanter is playable on D. Otherwise, Theis every time (or R Will - pray for his hip) are usually a better option.

[slamtheking]

Not sure what the post is looking for.

This is picking up from yet another "the sky is falling, I want a center really bad" thread the OP posted in about what trade he wanted and only got support from the other handful of posters that insist the team has to trade for a center at almost any cost. 

Every team in the league has a weak spot that can be exploited by a team that has a superior player at that position.  For the C's, it's the Center position. 

The reality is Theis and the rest of the 3-headed monster isn't ideal but far from the bottom of the barrel suggested in this or other threads.  if the C's could upgrade, they probably would but there's 3 big roadblocks to that:
1. A top center isn't being marketed in the league right now
2. A top center that would improve scoring, defense and rebounding would cost at least one of the core 5 players that also happen to be the reason we have the 3rd best record in the league despite Hayward missing so much time already.
3. Any centers/bigs that may actually be available for a minimal price won't move the needle for the team and are in  all likely reality, worse than who we already have.

[mmmmm]

Put me in the, "Theis is nowhere close to being the worst starting center in the NBA" category.

And I'd argue with others that he is actually kind of the ideal type of center for the current Celtic starting lineup.  We absolutely do NOT need a high-usage center, given we can expect roughly 80 points per game out of the other 4 starters.   

What we need on offense is a guy who is just enough of a threat both from deep and on pick & roll that he can't be ignored, despite his low USG.  Who can set a good pick and is an active and alert passer.  Theis is all those things just fine.  And on defense, we need a guy who is mobile and can switch, with wingspan and good 'hands following ball' instincts and yet strong and long enough to not be a complete pushover in the post for the fewer than 1 post-up plays per game that our typical starting center has to defend.

The play type that we have to defend the most -- almost 4 times as often per game -- are spot-up jumpers, which require a big man to be very quick and with good shot-contention on close-outs.  Theis, with his mobility and big wingspan, is actually very good at this, ranking 89.5% percentile on defending spot-ups.

None of this is to suggest that Theis is the best possible center for the Celtics.  There are definitely some guys out there that I would probably gladly take in a heartbeat over him.  But Theis is most certainly a good fit for our starting lineup and is very much on the positive side with his impact so far.

[Moranis]

Theis isn't even the best center on the roster.  That is Kanter.  By virtually every metric, Kanter has been the better player.  He scores, rebounds, assists, steals, better than Theis.  Kanter turns it over less.  He generates foul shots better.  Theis is a better shot blocker and a better team defender, though I think you could argue Kanter is better in man coverage.  That really is about the only place Theis is better though. 

That is why this is a strange poll.  So many of the "starting" centers aren't the best centers on the roster.  Boston, LA, NY (Robinson is clearly their best center), etc. or teams like the Mavs where the best center technically starts at PF or the Suns where the best center is suspended.

Theis is our best center this season, thus far.  Stop looking at stats, and look at results, especially on the defensive end. To suggest Kanter is playing better at the center position than Theis this season is very odd to me.

The results show Kanter is as good as Theis is as well.  Kanter generates more possessions.  He scores at a much better rate.  Theis is a better defender, but the gap overall defensively isn't as good as the gap overall offensively the other way.  And Kanter as he has gotten healthier is getting better.  I thought Kanter was very good in the Denver game, for example. 

[ETNCeltics]

What we need most from the 5, team defense, shotblocking, screens, playing away from the basket, Theis is just better at than Kanter. Kanter is bigger and stronger, a better rebounder, and has a nice post game, but those things clearly aren't valued by Brad as much as what Theis brings. Don't see how that's arguable.

[Moranis]

What we need most from the 5, team defense, shotblocking, screens, playing away from the basket, Theis is just better at than Kanter. Kanter is bigger and stronger, a better rebounder, and has a nice post game, but those things clearly aren't valued by Brad as much as what Theis brings. Don't see how that's arguable.

To be fair, Kanter started the 1st game and then got hurt.  If he doesn't get hurt, Kanter is probably still the starting center.  Theis played pretty well when Kanter was out and Kanter has been coming along slowly, so there has been no reason to reverse what was working, but I do expect at some point this year for Kanter to get back in the starting lineup.

[jambr380]

What we need most from the 5, team defense, shotblocking, screens, playing away from the basket, Theis is just better at than Kanter. Kanter is bigger and stronger, a better rebounder, and has a nice post game, but those things clearly aren't valued by Brad as much as what Theis brings. Don't see how that's arguable.

To be fair, Kanter started the 1st game and then got hurt.  If he doesn't get hurt, Kanter is probably still the starting center.  Theis played pretty well when Kanter was out and Kanter has been coming along slowly, so there has been no reason to reverse what was working, but I do expect at some point this year for Kanter to get back in the starting lineup.

I am not saying whether or not he is deserving of getting back in the starting line-up, but I doubt that will happen (other than in certain match-ups). Kanter's offense is much more important with the 2nd unit and his defense is less likely to hinder us playing against other teams' 2nd units. If we had Smart and say Grant Williams in the starting line-up, I would be fully on board with Kanter starting, but the other four guys are such dominant offensive players that it probably does generally work out better to have Theis starting and Kanter coming into put up points off the bench.

[PhoSita]

The center position is deep league wide but the overall importance of the position and amount of high end talent playing at that spot is pretty low.  It's not hard to find a solid rotation caliber center.  It's hard to find a real difference maker.

[keevsnick]

Hawks: 28
Celtics: 4
Hornets: 29
Cavs: 27
Mavs: 14
Warriors: 25
Clippers: 7
Lakers: 5
Grizzlies: 22
Pelicans: 26
Knicks: 24
Suns: 18
Kings: 20
Raptors: 6
Wizards: 30

These are the defensive ratings of the teams on this list. Only 4 are above average. Two of those are Boston and Clipper which have excellent perimeter wing defenders (and Theis is good defensively), a third is the lakers who even if they start a center their actual center is AD who is a DPOY candidate. And then there's Toronto who again has good perimeter defenders.

So basically if you have a bad center your defense is bad, unless you have excellent all nab type perimeter guys.