Author Topic: David Griffin taking over in NOP  (Read 4581 times)

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Re: David Griffin taking over in NOP
« Reply #90 on: April 18, 2019, 06:23:57 AM »

Online Moranis

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Griffin might be a bit overrated. His entire resume is basically making short term moves that mortgaged the future. Thatís not what NOP needs. It will be interesting to see how it works out.

Trading Andrew Wiggins and Anthony Bennett for Kevin Love was a pretty good move.

At the time it looked like mortgaging the future. Plus, Lebron made that deal.
what future did he mortgage exactly?  He traded a couple of picks that were at the end of the 1st round and a few young players that failed to live up to their potential (Wiggins, Bennett, and Waiters).  And in the process won a NBA Championship.  His moves almost all worked out well.

He traded away draft picks and took on / gave out bad contracts.

But he (should I say, Kyrie) won a championship, and they appeared in four straight Finals appearances.

My original point was that Griffin's experience is limited to an extreme "win now" situation.  Those talking like he's one of the best GMs in the NBA are probably overrating him.  Has he shown the ability to draft good players?  (He was all-in on Anthony Bennett).  Has he shown the ability to make trades with an eye toward the future?  What happens if he trades two #1s for Tim Mozgov in New Orleans?  His resume is largely incomplete. 

What worked for Lebron may not necessarily work in New Orleans.  If I'm Anthony Davis, I'm not putting my eggs in the Griffin basket unless and until he shows me the specific plan for adding multiple stars.

Quote from: David Griffin
If the greatest player of his generation isnít from Akron, Ohio, we would have applied a different game-plan for it all

He's right.  Having the chance to land Lebron changes everything.  But, we haven't seen the "different game-plan for it all", and there's no guarantee that Griffin can achieve success with that alternate plan.  Thus, why it's premature to treat him like a star GM.
from what I recall, Griffin felt Oladipo was the better player, but the organization as a whole wanted Bennett.  And Griffin was not the guy making the final decision as he was not the #1 guy in Cleveland at that time (it was Chris Grant).  That said Griffin has said he thought Bennett was going to be good and that he fell for the athleticism and just didn't know Bennett's work ethic was so crappy.

Re: David Griffin taking over in NOP
« Reply #91 on: April 18, 2019, 07:17:57 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Griffin might be a bit overrated. His entire resume is basically making short term moves that mortgaged the future. Thatís not what NOP needs. It will be interesting to see how it works out.

Trading Andrew Wiggins and Anthony Bennett for Kevin Love was a pretty good move.

At the time it looked like mortgaging the future. Plus, Lebron made that deal.
what future did he mortgage exactly?  He traded a couple of picks that were at the end of the 1st round and a few young players that failed to live up to their potential (Wiggins, Bennett, and Waiters).  And in the process won a NBA Championship.  His moves almost all worked out well.

He traded away draft picks and took on / gave out bad contracts.

But he (should I say, Kyrie) won a championship, and they appeared in four straight Finals appearances.

My original point was that Griffin's experience is limited to an extreme "win now" situation.  Those talking like he's one of the best GMs in the NBA are probably overrating him.  Has he shown the ability to draft good players?  (He was all-in on Anthony Bennett).  Has he shown the ability to make trades with an eye toward the future?  What happens if he trades two #1s for Tim Mozgov in New Orleans?  His resume is largely incomplete. 

What worked for Lebron may not necessarily work in New Orleans.  If I'm Anthony Davis, I'm not putting my eggs in the Griffin basket unless and until he shows me the specific plan for adding multiple stars.

Quote from: David Griffin
If the greatest player of his generation isnít from Akron, Ohio, we would have applied a different game-plan for it all

He's right.  Having the chance to land Lebron changes everything.  But, we haven't seen the "different game-plan for it all", and there's no guarantee that Griffin can achieve success with that alternate plan.  Thus, why it's premature to treat him like a star GM.
from what I recall, Griffin felt Oladipo was the better player, but the organization as a whole wanted Bennett.  And Griffin was not the guy making the final decision as he was not the #1 guy in Cleveland at that time (it was Chris Grant).  That said Griffin has said he thought Bennett was going to be good and that he fell for the athleticism and just didn't know Bennett's work ethic was so crappy.

It was 9-1 for Bennett within the front office, including Griffin.  The only dissenter, ironically, was Chris Grant.

Quote
And I was the one on campus at UNLV. Iím the one who got sold the bill of goods and I bought it hook, line, and sinker. You [expletive] up sometimes. But I feel bad Chris took it for that, because Chris was the one guy who wasnít sure

https://sports.yahoo.com/former-cavs-gm-fired-shot-across-bow-anthony-bennett-213004369.html


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Re: David Griffin taking over in NOP
« Reply #92 on: April 18, 2019, 08:30:23 AM »

Online Moranis

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Griffin might be a bit overrated. His entire resume is basically making short term moves that mortgaged the future. Thatís not what NOP needs. It will be interesting to see how it works out.

Trading Andrew Wiggins and Anthony Bennett for Kevin Love was a pretty good move.

At the time it looked like mortgaging the future. Plus, Lebron made that deal.
what future did he mortgage exactly?  He traded a couple of picks that were at the end of the 1st round and a few young players that failed to live up to their potential (Wiggins, Bennett, and Waiters).  And in the process won a NBA Championship.  His moves almost all worked out well.

He traded away draft picks and took on / gave out bad contracts.

But he (should I say, Kyrie) won a championship, and they appeared in four straight Finals appearances.

My original point was that Griffin's experience is limited to an extreme "win now" situation.  Those talking like he's one of the best GMs in the NBA are probably overrating him.  Has he shown the ability to draft good players?  (He was all-in on Anthony Bennett).  Has he shown the ability to make trades with an eye toward the future?  What happens if he trades two #1s for Tim Mozgov in New Orleans?  His resume is largely incomplete. 

What worked for Lebron may not necessarily work in New Orleans.  If I'm Anthony Davis, I'm not putting my eggs in the Griffin basket unless and until he shows me the specific plan for adding multiple stars.

Quote from: David Griffin
If the greatest player of his generation isnít from Akron, Ohio, we would have applied a different game-plan for it all

He's right.  Having the chance to land Lebron changes everything.  But, we haven't seen the "different game-plan for it all", and there's no guarantee that Griffin can achieve success with that alternate plan.  Thus, why it's premature to treat him like a star GM.
from what I recall, Griffin felt Oladipo was the better player, but the organization as a whole wanted Bennett.  And Griffin was not the guy making the final decision as he was not the #1 guy in Cleveland at that time (it was Chris Grant).  That said Griffin has said he thought Bennett was going to be good and that he fell for the athleticism and just didn't know Bennett's work ethic was so crappy.

It was 9-1 for Bennett within the front office, including Griffin.  The only dissenter, ironically, was Chris Grant.

Quote
And I was the one on campus at UNLV. Iím the one who got sold the bill of goods and I bought it hook, line, and sinker. You [expletive] up sometimes. But I feel bad Chris took it for that, because Chris was the one guy who wasnít sure

https://sports.yahoo.com/former-cavs-gm-fired-shot-across-bow-anthony-bennett-213004369.html
other clips of the book say Griffin really liked Oladipo but the organization had narrowed it down to McLemore or Bennett and that was what the vote was on. 


https://www.si.com/nba/2017/10/24/david-griffin-anthony-bennett-draft-pick-cavaliers

Quote
David Griffin, Cleveland's vice president of basketball operations at the time, told Lloyd that his top choice in the draft was Victor Oladipo, who went second to the Magic. He also said he felt bad that Grant got so much of the blame for the Bennett pick because Grant wasn't sold on taking him.

https://kingjamesgospel.com/2017/10/24/cleveland-cavaliers-dan-gilbert-wanted-victor-oladipo-2013-nba-draft/

Quote
What's interesting is that Oladipo (from Indiana University) was Griffin's favorite player though.

Oddly enough Dan Gilbert also preferred Oladipo but he left his basketball team make the selection rather than interfering. 

Re: David Griffin taking over in NOP
« Reply #93 on: April 18, 2019, 08:51:10 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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So watching tatum in the playoffs so far and you had the following options for a davis trade...which one?

Brown and hayward and 2 picks for davis and moore

Or

Tatum, smart and 2 picks for davis?
your personal agenda to unload Hayward is awful.   His play has picked up the past month so he's not looking like the shell of himself from earlier this year.

neither deal works.   NO would probably be thrilled to get Brown and Hayward in the same deal but if, in the realm of the impossible, this happened there would be no picks included - at least nothing higher than 20.  The Tatum-Smart deal needs more pieces to make that palatable for NO --> no way they settle for just that.

Deal is likely going to be Tatum, Smart, Williams, the 4 first rounders this year (or swapping the Clips or C's pick this year for the C's pick next year to allow potential trade options for the C's next year that Danny may have his eye on) and possibly Semi or Yabu for money matching (or roster clearing).  that's better than what anyone else can offer.  not that the premise of trading should be offering $100 when the next best is $50 just to clinch the deal.  an offer of $60 should do that just fine and then some.

Re: David Griffin taking over in NOP
« Reply #94 on: April 18, 2019, 09:40:35 AM »

Offline Big333223

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So watching tatum in the playoffs so far and you had the following options for a davis trade...which one?

Brown and hayward and 2 picks for davis and moore

Or

Tatum, smart and 2 picks for davis?
your personal agenda to unload Hayward is awful.   His play has picked up the past month so he's not looking like the shell of himself from earlier this year.

neither deal works.   NO would probably be thrilled to get Brown and Hayward in the same deal but if, in the realm of the impossible, this happened there would be no picks included - at least nothing higher than 20.  The Tatum-Smart deal needs more pieces to make that palatable for NO --> no way they settle for just that.

Deal is likely going to be Tatum, Smart, Williams, the 4 first rounders this year (or swapping the Clips or C's pick this year for the C's pick next year to allow potential trade options for the C's next year that Danny may have his eye on) and possibly Semi or Yabu for money matching (or roster clearing).  that's better than what anyone else can offer.  not that the premise of trading should be offering $100 when the next best is $50 just to clinch the deal.  an offer of $60 should do that just fine and then some.

I'll say that I'm also all for a Davis trade that sends Hayward out. I think it's the cleanest trade given the salaries and fit. If Hayward has a really good showing in the playoffs and looks like an asset, routing him to a third team and sending out Hayward and 4 picks for Davis might get it done.

Nothing against Hayward, really. I think the fit is better, it simplifies the contract situation and we get to hang on to more of our home grown Celtics (like Tatum, Brown, and Smart).
« Last Edit: April 18, 2019, 10:52:44 AM by Big333223 »
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Re: David Griffin taking over in NOP
« Reply #95 on: April 18, 2019, 10:06:13 AM »

Online footey

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I'm in the minority, but, as a fan of the NBA, I could think of nothing sweeter than for Gilbert to convince Davis to re-up with the Pelicans, and sign the max contract with them.   

May not be what is best for the Celtics, but sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture.

Re: David Griffin taking over in NOP
« Reply #96 on: April 18, 2019, 10:07:36 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Never believe the spin about draft busts or missing out on the gems.

How many teams were "THIS CLOSE" to taking Giannis?

Re: David Griffin taking over in NOP
« Reply #97 on: April 18, 2019, 10:14:20 AM »

Online footey

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Never believe the spin about draft busts or missing out on the gems.

How many teams were "THIS CLOSE" to taking Giannis?

TP. 

Re: David Griffin taking over in NOP
« Reply #98 on: April 18, 2019, 10:19:43 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Griffin might be a bit overrated. His entire resume is basically making short term moves that mortgaged the future. Thatís not what NOP needs. It will be interesting to see how it works out.

Trading Andrew Wiggins and Anthony Bennett for Kevin Love was a pretty good move.

At the time it looked like mortgaging the future. Plus, Lebron made that deal.
what future did he mortgage exactly?  He traded a couple of picks that were at the end of the 1st round and a few young players that failed to live up to their potential (Wiggins, Bennett, and Waiters).  And in the process won a NBA Championship.  His moves almost all worked out well.

He traded away draft picks and took on / gave out bad contracts.

But he (should I say, Kyrie) won a championship, and they appeared in four straight Finals appearances.

My original point was that Griffin's experience is limited to an extreme "win now" situation.  Those talking like he's one of the best GMs in the NBA are probably overrating him.  Has he shown the ability to draft good players?  (He was all-in on Anthony Bennett).  Has he shown the ability to make trades with an eye toward the future?  What happens if he trades two #1s for Tim Mozgov in New Orleans?  His resume is largely incomplete. 

What worked for Lebron may not necessarily work in New Orleans.  If I'm Anthony Davis, I'm not putting my eggs in the Griffin basket unless and until he shows me the specific plan for adding multiple stars.

Quote from: David Griffin
If the greatest player of his generation isnít from Akron, Ohio, we would have applied a different game-plan for it all

He's right.  Having the chance to land Lebron changes everything.  But, we haven't seen the "different game-plan for it all", and there's no guarantee that Griffin can achieve success with that alternate plan.  Thus, why it's premature to treat him like a star GM.
from what I recall, Griffin felt Oladipo was the better player, but the organization as a whole wanted Bennett.  And Griffin was not the guy making the final decision as he was not the #1 guy in Cleveland at that time (it was Chris Grant).  That said Griffin has said he thought Bennett was going to be good and that he fell for the athleticism and just didn't know Bennett's work ethic was so crappy.

It was 9-1 for Bennett within the front office, including Griffin.  The only dissenter, ironically, was Chris Grant.

Quote
And I was the one on campus at UNLV. Iím the one who got sold the bill of goods and I bought it hook, line, and sinker. You [expletive] up sometimes. But I feel bad Chris took it for that, because Chris was the one guy who wasnít sure

https://sports.yahoo.com/former-cavs-gm-fired-shot-across-bow-anthony-bennett-213004369.html
other clips of the book say Griffin really liked Oladipo but the organization had narrowed it down to McLemore or Bennett and that was what the vote was on. 


https://www.si.com/nba/2017/10/24/david-griffin-anthony-bennett-draft-pick-cavaliers

Quote
David Griffin, Cleveland's vice president of basketball operations at the time, told Lloyd that his top choice in the draft was Victor Oladipo, who went second to the Magic. He also said he felt bad that Grant got so much of the blame for the Bennett pick because Grant wasn't sold on taking him.

https://kingjamesgospel.com/2017/10/24/cleveland-cavaliers-dan-gilbert-wanted-victor-oladipo-2013-nba-draft/

Quote
What's interesting is that Oladipo (from Indiana University) was Griffin's favorite player though.

Oddly enough Dan Gilbert also preferred Oladipo but he left his basketball team make the selection rather than interfering.

The Cavs took a guy that their GM, VP of Basketball Operations, and owner didn't want?


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DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: David Griffin taking over in NOP
« Reply #99 on: April 18, 2019, 10:29:28 AM »

Online Moranis

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Griffin might be a bit overrated. His entire resume is basically making short term moves that mortgaged the future. Thatís not what NOP needs. It will be interesting to see how it works out.

Trading Andrew Wiggins and Anthony Bennett for Kevin Love was a pretty good move.

At the time it looked like mortgaging the future. Plus, Lebron made that deal.
what future did he mortgage exactly?  He traded a couple of picks that were at the end of the 1st round and a few young players that failed to live up to their potential (Wiggins, Bennett, and Waiters).  And in the process won a NBA Championship.  His moves almost all worked out well.

He traded away draft picks and took on / gave out bad contracts.

But he (should I say, Kyrie) won a championship, and they appeared in four straight Finals appearances.

My original point was that Griffin's experience is limited to an extreme "win now" situation.  Those talking like he's one of the best GMs in the NBA are probably overrating him.  Has he shown the ability to draft good players?  (He was all-in on Anthony Bennett).  Has he shown the ability to make trades with an eye toward the future?  What happens if he trades two #1s for Tim Mozgov in New Orleans?  His resume is largely incomplete. 

What worked for Lebron may not necessarily work in New Orleans.  If I'm Anthony Davis, I'm not putting my eggs in the Griffin basket unless and until he shows me the specific plan for adding multiple stars.

Quote from: David Griffin
If the greatest player of his generation isnít from Akron, Ohio, we would have applied a different game-plan for it all

He's right.  Having the chance to land Lebron changes everything.  But, we haven't seen the "different game-plan for it all", and there's no guarantee that Griffin can achieve success with that alternate plan.  Thus, why it's premature to treat him like a star GM.
from what I recall, Griffin felt Oladipo was the better player, but the organization as a whole wanted Bennett.  And Griffin was not the guy making the final decision as he was not the #1 guy in Cleveland at that time (it was Chris Grant).  That said Griffin has said he thought Bennett was going to be good and that he fell for the athleticism and just didn't know Bennett's work ethic was so crappy.

It was 9-1 for Bennett within the front office, including Griffin.  The only dissenter, ironically, was Chris Grant.

Quote
And I was the one on campus at UNLV. Iím the one who got sold the bill of goods and I bought it hook, line, and sinker. You [expletive] up sometimes. But I feel bad Chris took it for that, because Chris was the one guy who wasnít sure

https://sports.yahoo.com/former-cavs-gm-fired-shot-across-bow-anthony-bennett-213004369.html
other clips of the book say Griffin really liked Oladipo but the organization had narrowed it down to McLemore or Bennett and that was what the vote was on. 


https://www.si.com/nba/2017/10/24/david-griffin-anthony-bennett-draft-pick-cavaliers

Quote
David Griffin, Cleveland's vice president of basketball operations at the time, told Lloyd that his top choice in the draft was Victor Oladipo, who went second to the Magic. He also said he felt bad that Grant got so much of the blame for the Bennett pick because Grant wasn't sold on taking him.

https://kingjamesgospel.com/2017/10/24/cleveland-cavaliers-dan-gilbert-wanted-victor-oladipo-2013-nba-draft/

Quote
What's interesting is that Oladipo (from Indiana University) was Griffin's favorite player though.

Oddly enough Dan Gilbert also preferred Oladipo but he left his basketball team make the selection rather than interfering.

The Cavs took a guy that their GM, VP of Basketball Operations, and owner didn't want?
Griffin liked Bennett and the team ended up away from SG because they had Waiters and Irving.  If they didn't have Waiters, I think that draft ends up differently for them.  The Dan Gilbert stuff was all over the news in Cleveland at the time.  It isn't any sort of after the fact thing.  Gilbert has flaws as an owner, but he has always been willing to spend money and always willing to let the basketball people do their job, which are his two greatest strengths as an owner. 

Re: David Griffin taking over in NOP
« Reply #100 on: April 18, 2019, 12:56:41 PM »

Online celticsclay

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Griffin might be a bit overrated. His entire resume is basically making short term moves that mortgaged the future. Thatís not what NOP needs. It will be interesting to see how it works out.

Trading Andrew Wiggins and Anthony Bennett for Kevin Love was a pretty good move.

At the time it looked like mortgaging the future. Plus, Lebron made that deal.
what future did he mortgage exactly?  He traded a couple of picks that were at the end of the 1st round and a few young players that failed to live up to their potential (Wiggins, Bennett, and Waiters).  And in the process won a NBA Championship.  His moves almost all worked out well.

He traded away draft picks and took on / gave out bad contracts.

But he (should I say, Kyrie) won a championship, and they appeared in four straight Finals appearances.

My original point was that Griffin's experience is limited to an extreme "win now" situation.  Those talking like he's one of the best GMs in the NBA are probably overrating him.  Has he shown the ability to draft good players?  (He was all-in on Anthony Bennett).  Has he shown the ability to make trades with an eye toward the future?  What happens if he trades two #1s for Tim Mozgov in New Orleans?  His resume is largely incomplete. 

What worked for Lebron may not necessarily work in New Orleans.  If I'm Anthony Davis, I'm not putting my eggs in the Griffin basket unless and until he shows me the specific plan for adding multiple stars.

Quote from: David Griffin
If the greatest player of his generation isnít from Akron, Ohio, we would have applied a different game-plan for it all

He's right.  Having the chance to land Lebron changes everything.  But, we haven't seen the "different game-plan for it all", and there's no guarantee that Griffin can achieve success with that alternate plan.  Thus, why it's premature to treat him like a star GM.
from what I recall, Griffin felt Oladipo was the better player, but the organization as a whole wanted Bennett.  And Griffin was not the guy making the final decision as he was not the #1 guy in Cleveland at that time (it was Chris Grant).  That said Griffin has said he thought Bennett was going to be good and that he fell for the athleticism and just didn't know Bennett's work ethic was so crappy.

It was 9-1 for Bennett within the front office, including Griffin.  The only dissenter, ironically, was Chris Grant.

Quote
And I was the one on campus at UNLV. Iím the one who got sold the bill of goods and I bought it hook, line, and sinker. You [expletive] up sometimes. But I feel bad Chris took it for that, because Chris was the one guy who wasnít sure

https://sports.yahoo.com/former-cavs-gm-fired-shot-across-bow-anthony-bennett-213004369.html
other clips of the book say Griffin really liked Oladipo but the organization had narrowed it down to McLemore or Bennett and that was what the vote was on. 


https://www.si.com/nba/2017/10/24/david-griffin-anthony-bennett-draft-pick-cavaliers

Quote
David Griffin, Cleveland's vice president of basketball operations at the time, told Lloyd that his top choice in the draft was Victor Oladipo, who went second to the Magic. He also said he felt bad that Grant got so much of the blame for the Bennett pick because Grant wasn't sold on taking him.

https://kingjamesgospel.com/2017/10/24/cleveland-cavaliers-dan-gilbert-wanted-victor-oladipo-2013-nba-draft/

Quote
What's interesting is that Oladipo (from Indiana University) was Griffin's favorite player though.

Oddly enough Dan Gilbert also preferred Oladipo but he left his basketball team make the selection rather than interfering.

The Cavs took a guy that their GM, VP of Basketball Operations, and owner didn't want?

This is hilarious Roy

Re: David Griffin taking over in NOP
« Reply #101 on: April 18, 2019, 12:57:28 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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I'm in the minority, but, as a fan of the NBA, I could think of nothing sweeter than for Gilbert to convince Davis to re-up with the Pelicans, and sign the max contract with them.   

May not be what is best for the Celtics, but sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture.
I could live with AD resigning in NO with no problem.  This team is loaded with talent, just a matter of getting Hayward back up to his old self (which has looked a lot less like a hopeless endeavor this past month), getting another year of experience into Brown, Tatum and Williams while addressing the drags on the team in Rozier and Morris.  Maybe use the lesser, replaceable pieces like Semi, Yabu and Theis to address some other holes or help them develop more than they have already.

As constituted, this is still a top team in the league.  If kept together next year, I think we'll see a much better result than we did this year.

Re: David Griffin taking over in NOP
« Reply #102 on: April 18, 2019, 01:01:58 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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The issue with Davis having a Dwight moment and signing the super max is that the reporting on Kyrie is mixed. The positive ones for the Celtics retaining him still state that getting Davis is a big part of convincing him to stay given how the team has struggled this year.

So if the C's gel and make a ECF/Finals run maybe Kyrie decides Tatum/Hayward/Horford are enough to compete and is willing to commit without Davis coming. But if the Bucks beat us in the second round how does he feel? (or even worse if the C's blow a 2-0 lead to the Pacers!!!)

C's are not in a bad spot if Kyrie leaves by any means, but its a very different timeline. Especially if Horford opts to leave in FA as well.

Re: David Griffin taking over in NOP
« Reply #103 on: April 18, 2019, 01:42:55 PM »

Offline ManUp

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Possibly bad news for the Celtics.

I think this kills the possibility of a trade that doesn't include Tatum. Griffin won't miss out on him twice. I think Danny could've had a chance by just dumping all the picks and Jaylen on someone else. Griffin won't want to come out the clear loser in a another deal with Ainge.

Re: David Griffin taking over in NOP
« Reply #104 on: April 18, 2019, 01:49:43 PM »

Online Roy H.

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I think this kills the possibility of a trade that doesn't include Tatum.

What is dead may never die.


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DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

 

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