Author Topic: The Durant-Irving deception  (Read 3334 times)

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Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2019, 08:08:07 PM »

Online gouki88

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For a guy who was all but gone, that's a great haul.
They got two bench rotation players and a project young big man and a low first round pick.

Its a good package for a guy who's out the door no matter what, but its not a "haul". Its certainly not something that should make you think that in a similar situation the GSW would expect Brown + Tatum and picks.

Harrell and Lou Williams are two of three finalists for 6th man of the year, and would start on many teams. Beverley is a legit starter, and an NBA All-Defensive First Team player.

And again, that package was for an aging point guard who's never won anything, ever. We're talking Kevin Durant here, 2-time NBA Finals MVP.
They had a great year this year, they also had low trade value when it happened. Lou got moved for a low first round pick just a bit before the CP3 trade. Harrell wasn't playing and hadn't developed into the player he is now yet. It was a forced trade and the Clippers settled for the Rockets scraps.

Nuts what a run at the 8th seed will do for people's memory holing what happened.
Exactly right! Lou and Harrell both had low value at the time. I donít think anyone inside nor outside LAC thought they were getting two 6MOTY candidates

Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2019, 08:11:39 PM »

Online Fafnir

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Exactly right! Lou and Harrell both had low value at the time. I donít think anyone inside nor outside LAC thought they were getting two 6MOTY candidates
I mean Lou won it before, not because he's the best bench player but because the voters literally just give it to the highest PPG off the bench almost every year.

Look at this list:
Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Sixth_Man_of_the_Year_Award

Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2019, 08:32:07 PM »

Offline Never Nervous Pervis

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For a guy who was all but gone, that's a great haul.
They got two bench rotation players and a project young big man and a low first round pick.

Its a good package for a guy who's out the door no matter what, but its not a "haul". Its certainly not something that should make you think that in a similar situation the GSW would expect Brown + Tatum and picks.

Harrell and Lou Williams are two of three finalists for 6th man of the year, and would start on many teams. Beverley is a legit starter, and an NBA All-Defensive First Team player.

And again, that package was for an aging point guard who's never won anything, ever. We're talking Kevin Durant here, 2-time NBA Finals MVP.
They had a great year this year, they also had low trade value when it happened. Lou got moved for a low first round pick just a bit before the CP3 trade. Harrell wasn't playing and hadn't developed into the player he is now yet. It was a forced trade and the Clippers settled for the Rockets scraps.

Nuts what a run at the 8th seed will do for people's memory holing what happened. Also digging on CP3 for never having won anything while crowing about Lou "sucks in the playoffs like clockwork" Williams. (.490 TS% in the playoffs)  ???

You seem to be confusing me with someone else. I've never said Lou sucks in the playoffs, nor have I forgotten the trade when it happened.

When history looks back on the Celtics-Nets trade, do they judge it based at the time of the deal, or how it worked out once all the draft picks conveyed? Why is the package the Clips got for CP3 any different?

The Clips front office properly assessed the value of Lou Williams and Beverley, and saw the potential in Harrell. And it worked out well for them.

Case closed.


Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2019, 08:36:11 PM »

Offline sirnastee

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I think GS would let KD walk for nothing rather than send him to Boston for G. Hayward and a pick.  Not only will they be in deep luxury tax for someone nobody is sure that will ever get back to his former self, but they will be creating a super team in Boston (especially if they go trade for AD after).  GS cannot be confident to beat the Celtics with their Curry, Klay, Draymond big 3 if they send KD to join Kyrie and maybe AD. 

With that said, if G. Hayward ever becomes fully healthy, I think he would be a great fit for the way GS plays, as he is very unselfish, is not a defensive liability on switches, and can hit open shots. 

Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2019, 08:37:24 PM »

Online gouki88

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Exactly right! Lou and Harrell both had low value at the time. I donít think anyone inside nor outside LAC thought they were getting two 6MOTY candidates
I mean Lou won it before, not because he's the best bench player but because the voters literally just give it to the highest PPG off the bench almost every year.

Look at this list:
Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Sixth_Man_of_the_Year_Award
Yeah, almost always goes to shoot first guards off the bench. For me I would actually have both Sabonis and Harrell ahead of Lou Will for the award.

Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #35 on: May 20, 2019, 08:38:04 PM »

Offline Never Nervous Pervis

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A trade with Golden State for Durant would start with Hayward/Horford, Tatum/Brown (if not both), and at least two first rounders.

Not likely, IMO.  Everyone would know that to be a gross overpay.

It's not an overpay if it's legitimately the only chance the Celtics have to get the most skilled player in the NBA. The second Durant opts out, the Celtics are out of the mix.

Of course it's an overpay.  Whether you, or the Celtics, are willing to be taken to the cleaners in order to get the player is a separate issue.

LOL @ getting "taken to the cleaners." On what planet is acquiring the best player in the world (IMO) for an overpaid veteran, a young talent coming off a disappointing second year, and a couple of late firsts an overpay? By KD opting in to his contract it would be the same as acquiring Anthony Davis for one year.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 08:57:27 PM by Never Nervous Pervis »

Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2019, 09:14:15 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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The idea that Durant would give up more than $6 million next year to opt in and be traded is extremely flawed. Durant took a couple million less to sign with a 73 win team. He signed 1+1 contracts with the goal of cashing in on his 10 year vet, 35% of the cap status eventually. That time is now.

He just had a serious injury scare. Is Durant going to opt in for $6.7 million less, forgo his plan to get that 4 year contract at 35% of the cap, risk injury in that year that could cost him over $100 million just to play with Kyrie in Boston? Would you do that? Would any agent with even a spec of intelligence advise Durant to do that?

Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2019, 09:16:00 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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The idea that Durant would give up more than $6 million next year to opt in and be traded is extremely flawed. Durant took a couple million less to sign with a 73 win team. He signed 1+1 contracts with the goal of cashing in on his 10 year vet, 35% of the cap status eventually. That time is now.

He just had a serious injury scare. Is Durant going to opt in for $6.7 million less, forgo his plan to get that 4 year contract at 35% of the cap, risk injury in that year that could cost him over $100 million just to play with Kyrie in Boston? Would you do that? Would any agent with even a spec of intelligence advise Durant to do that?

exactly

he is going to join the Knicks

Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #38 on: May 20, 2019, 09:18:14 PM »

Online Fafnir

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For a guy who was all but gone, that's a great haul.
They got two bench rotation players and a project young big man and a low first round pick.

Its a good package for a guy who's out the door no matter what, but its not a "haul". Its certainly not something that should make you think that in a similar situation the GSW would expect Brown + Tatum and picks.

Harrell and Lou Williams are two of three finalists for 6th man of the year, and would start on many teams. Beverley is a legit starter, and an NBA All-Defensive First Team player.

And again, that package was for an aging point guard who's never won anything, ever. We're talking Kevin Durant here, 2-time NBA Finals MVP.
They had a great year this year, they also had low trade value when it happened. Lou got moved for a low first round pick just a bit before the CP3 trade. Harrell wasn't playing and hadn't developed into the player he is now yet. It was a forced trade and the Clippers settled for the Rockets scraps.

Nuts what a run at the 8th seed will do for people's memory holing what happened. Also digging on CP3 for never having won anything while crowing about Lou "sucks in the playoffs like clockwork" Williams. (.490 TS% in the playoffs)  ???

You seem to be confusing me with someone else. I've never said Lou sucks in the playoffs, nor have I forgotten the trade when it happened.

When history looks back on the Celtics-Nets trade, do they judge it based at the time of the deal, or how it worked out once all the draft picks conveyed? Why is the package the Clips got for CP3 any different?

The Clips front office properly assessed the value of Lou Williams and Beverley, and saw the potential in Harrell. And it worked out well for them.

Case closed.
"Aging, never won anything CP3". That was you. How old do you think Lou Williams, how much has he won?

Anyways if you think the CP3 trade was a haul/heist more power to you it remains two older rotation players, a project big man, and the 30th pick the draft. It was the third best trade they made in their rebuild! (Blake Out / Tobias Out trades being 1 and 2 in some order hard to separate those two)

Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #39 on: May 20, 2019, 09:20:04 PM »

Online Fafnir

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He just had a serious injury scare. Is Durant going to opt in for $6.7 million less, forgo his plan to get that 4 year contract at 35% of the cap, risk injury in that year that could cost him over $100 million just to play with Kyrie in Boston? Would you do that? Would any agent with even a spec of intelligence advise Durant to do that?
Why would any agent advise him going to the dumpster fire that is the Knicks? (Well I guess Rich Kleinman would given that he's openly fantasized about running and/or owning the Knicks)

The entire Durant thing is really weird no matter what he does.

Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #40 on: May 20, 2019, 09:25:37 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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He just had a serious injury scare. Is Durant going to opt in for $6.7 million less, forgo his plan to get that 4 year contract at 35% of the cap, risk injury in that year that could cost him over $100 million just to play with Kyrie in Boston? Would you do that? Would any agent with even a spec of intelligence advise Durant to do that?
Why would any agent advise him going to the dumpster fire that is the Knicks? (Well I guess Rich Kleinman would given that he's openly fantasized about running and/or owning the Knicks)

The entire Durant thing is really weird no matter what he does.

read what Nick wrote

Durant already has his rings (perhaps another on the way)

he sacrificed max pay to accomplish this

now he can cash in

This said, it doesn't have to be the Knicks he joins.   But all rumors point to him doing this


Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #41 on: May 20, 2019, 09:32:17 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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He just had a serious injury scare. Is Durant going to opt in for $6.7 million less, forgo his plan to get that 4 year contract at 35% of the cap, risk injury in that year that could cost him over $100 million just to play with Kyrie in Boston? Would you do that? Would any agent with even a spec of intelligence advise Durant to do that?
Why would any agent advise him going to the dumpster fire that is the Knicks? (Well I guess Rich Kleinman would given that he's openly fantasized about running and/or owning the Knicks)

The entire Durant thing is really weird no matter what he does.
Well, that's a whole other issue. Durant and players, I think, don't give the idea of bad of bad ownership situations enough thought. I think they think just being there and getting another good player will turn things around, regardless of ownership, coaching or management.

Case in point, Lebron in LA.

But, financially, New York makes a ton of sense for Durant and that's what I was referring to in the comment about his agent. If Durant actually did blow out his Achilles, there is a possibility he would have lost that last giant contract. He didn't but is he going to risk putting off that mega contract another year after having that scare? I don't think so.

Personally, if Durant sees NYK can't put another star with him, I could see Durant deciding not to go there.

Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #42 on: May 20, 2019, 09:58:05 PM »

Online Fafnir

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Personally, if Durant sees NYK can't put another star with him, I could see Durant deciding not to go there.
Yeah, I do agree he's going to go for a longer max deal wherever he goes. If he stays in GSW, or goes to wherever with cap space.

Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #43 on: May 20, 2019, 10:22:43 PM »

Offline Bobshot

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If the Warriors win another championship, KD will probably stay.

It's in his best interest. At this point, it makes little sense to go to a bad franchise like NY.  I think a lot of what you are hearing  is wishful thinking from all the media in NY, including the TV networks, who stand to gain from a Knicks team  loaded with stars. Name guys.  It's a bunch of fake news.

KD knows he can't win a championship all by himself. It takes CHEMISTRY. Teamwork. Organization. And there's none better than the Warriors. And you don't do it overnight.  Though I must say Pierce, KG and Allen did it fast along with a bunch of excellent role players. But that was 3 stars.

KD has it so good with the Warriors. They can even win without him. No pressure, either.

Re: The Durant-Irving deception
« Reply #44 on: May 20, 2019, 10:57:01 PM »

Offline Never Nervous Pervis

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For a guy who was all but gone, that's a great haul.
They got two bench rotation players and a project young big man and a low first round pick.

Its a good package for a guy who's out the door no matter what, but its not a "haul". Its certainly not something that should make you think that in a similar situation the GSW would expect Brown + Tatum and picks.

Harrell and Lou Williams are two of three finalists for 6th man of the year, and would start on many teams. Beverley is a legit starter, and an NBA All-Defensive First Team player.

And again, that package was for an aging point guard who's never won anything, ever. We're talking Kevin Durant here, 2-time NBA Finals MVP.
They had a great year this year, they also had low trade value when it happened. Lou got moved for a low first round pick just a bit before the CP3 trade. Harrell wasn't playing and hadn't developed into the player he is now yet. It was a forced trade and the Clippers settled for the Rockets scraps.

Nuts what a run at the 8th seed will do for people's memory holing what happened. Also digging on CP3 for never having won anything while crowing about Lou "sucks in the playoffs like clockwork" Williams. (.490 TS% in the playoffs)  ???

You seem to be confusing me with someone else. I've never said Lou sucks in the playoffs, nor have I forgotten the trade when it happened.

When history looks back on the Celtics-Nets trade, do they judge it based at the time of the deal, or how it worked out once all the draft picks conveyed? Why is the package the Clips got for CP3 any different?

The Clips front office properly assessed the value of Lou Williams and Beverley, and saw the potential in Harrell. And it worked out well for them.

Case closed.
"Aging, never won anything CP3". That was you. How old do you think Lou Williams, how much has he won?

Anyways if you think the CP3 trade was a haul/heist more power to you it remains two older rotation players, a project big man, and the 30th pick the draft. It was the third best trade they made in their rebuild! (Blake Out / Tobias Out trades being 1 and 2 in some order hard to separate those two)

Lou Williams is a 31-year-old 6th man signed to a 3 year $24 million dollar contract (with only $1.5 million guaranteed in the final year). Chris Paul is a 34-year-old all-star (some say superstar) on a super-max contract that pays him $41 million and $44 million in the final two years of the deal (his age 36 and 37 seasons). Both teams won two games against the Warriors in this year's playoffs. Not sure what your point is here but I know who easily won that Rockets-Clippers trade.

This whole argument hinges on your misunderstanding of the word haul, as if it automatically means massive. It could be a massive haul; it could also be a disappointing haul, or a small haul, or a great haul. The Clips got good value for a far inferior player in Paul; hence why Durant, if he wants to come to Boston, will command more.

And what the Clips got for Blake and Tobias is irrelevant. It's not related to Durant's situation.


 

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