Author Topic: What is your ideal and realistic team next season?  (Read 5644 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: What is your ideal and realistic team next season?
« Reply #120 on: May 23, 2019, 03:53:48 PM »

Online PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18952
  • Tommy Points: 1841
Ideal and realistic are both entirely different concepts. But I will bite and try to go for my 'ideal,' realistic team.

S&T Wanamaker of about 8 million, with the 2nd or 3rd year non-guaranteed. (He does this, because he gets a lot of money upfront, plus he gets to stay in the NBA, and he'll also see plenty of minutes considering the lack of depth at the PG. Similar to how we did the Keith Bogans deal.)


My understanding is that a sign-and-traded player cannot be aggregated with other salaries in order to make a trade work financially.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: What is your ideal and realistic team next season?
« Reply #121 on: May 23, 2019, 04:15:16 PM »

Online Monkhouse

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6203
  • Tommy Points: 704
  • A true Celtic plays with heart.
Ideal and realistic are both entirely different concepts. But I will bite and try to go for my 'ideal,' realistic team.

S&T Wanamaker of about 8 million, with the 2nd or 3rd year non-guaranteed. (He does this, because he gets a lot of money upfront, plus he gets to stay in the NBA, and he'll also see plenty of minutes considering the lack of depth at the PG. Similar to how we did the Keith Bogans deal.)


My understanding is that a sign-and-traded player cannot be aggregated with other salaries in order to make a trade work financially.

I understood that too, but maybe I'm mistaken, but I read somewhere that a player that is tendered the Q/O with Early Bird Rights can be restructured as a new contract, and aggregated. If not, I may be mistaken. Regardless, I took that into account, and presumed Brown would sent out to cover salary purposes.
"I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies and hypotheses
Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

Is the glass half-full or half-empty?
It's based on your perspective, quite simply
We're the same and we're not; know what I'm saying? Listen
Son, I ain't better than you, I just think different

Re: What is your ideal and realistic team next season?
« Reply #122 on: May 23, 2019, 05:03:05 PM »

Offline CelticsCeltics

  • Robert Williams
  • Posts: 16
  • Tommy Points: 3
Tatum
Smart
Timelord
Grizzlies pick
#14,#20, and #22

For Anthony Davis

Re-sign Al Horford to a multi year deal for a lower yearly salary, re-sign Kyrie Irving

Kyrie
Jaylen
Gordon
Al
AD

With a whole bunch of shooting off the bench

Some potential free agents for the vet minimum, tax-payer MLE, and bird rights:

Marcus Morris
Wayne Ellington
Shabazz Napier
Tomas Satoransky
Reggie Bullock
Daniel Theis
Brad Wanamaker
Dewayne Dedmon
JaMychal Green



Re: What is your ideal and realistic team next season?
« Reply #123 on: May 23, 2019, 05:07:51 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 38462
  • Tommy Points: -27402
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Ideal and realistic are both entirely different concepts. But I will bite and try to go for my 'ideal,' realistic team.

S&T Wanamaker of about 8 million, with the 2nd or 3rd year non-guaranteed. (He does this, because he gets a lot of money upfront, plus he gets to stay in the NBA, and he'll also see plenty of minutes considering the lack of depth at the PG. Similar to how we did the Keith Bogans deal.)


My understanding is that a sign-and-traded player cannot be aggregated with other salaries in order to make a trade work financially.

I don’t believe that provision is in the CBA.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: What is your ideal and realistic team next season?
« Reply #124 on: May 23, 2019, 07:09:44 PM »

Online PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18952
  • Tommy Points: 1841
Ideal and realistic are both entirely different concepts. But I will bite and try to go for my 'ideal,' realistic team.

S&T Wanamaker of about 8 million, with the 2nd or 3rd year non-guaranteed. (He does this, because he gets a lot of money upfront, plus he gets to stay in the NBA, and he'll also see plenty of minutes considering the lack of depth at the PG. Similar to how we did the Keith Bogans deal.)


My understanding is that a sign-and-traded player cannot be aggregated with other salaries in order to make a trade work financially.

I don’t believe that provision is in the CBA.


Hrm.  I thought there were restrictions on how you could use a sign-and-traded player to make salaries work, to prevent teams without cap space to take advantage of free agents to make the trade money work.


Judging from some googling and some reddit posts, it looks like I'm not alone in thinking sign-and-traded players can't be combined with other players from the same team.  However, nobody can seem to find authority for that rule.  So I'm not sure where that idea originates.


There is this limitation:


Quote
4. Signed-and-traded players can be difficult to salary-match in trades.

There’s one scenario in which a sign-and-trade may genuinely make sense — if a free agent wants to join a team without cap room. However, even that scenario can’t necessarily be handled like a normal trade, since the Base Year Compensation (BYC) rule often applies.

The BYC rule applies to a specific circumstance. If a player is being signed-and-traded via Early Bird or Bird rights by a team above the salary cap, gets a raise of at least 20%, and his salary is worth more than the minimum, his cap figure for salary-matching purposes will be affected. For the team acquiring him, his full salary would apply in a trade. For the team trading him, he would count for his previous salary or 50% of his new salary, whichever is greater.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/05/why-nba-sign-and-trades-are-rare.html
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 07:17:27 PM by PhoSita »
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: What is your ideal and realistic team next season?
« Reply #125 on: May 23, 2019, 08:04:21 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 38462
  • Tommy Points: -27402
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Ideal and realistic are both entirely different concepts. But I will bite and try to go for my 'ideal,' realistic team.

S&T Wanamaker of about 8 million, with the 2nd or 3rd year non-guaranteed. (He does this, because he gets a lot of money upfront, plus he gets to stay in the NBA, and he'll also see plenty of minutes considering the lack of depth at the PG. Similar to how we did the Keith Bogans deal.)


My understanding is that a sign-and-traded player cannot be aggregated with other salaries in order to make a trade work financially.

I don’t believe that provision is in the CBA.


Hrm.  I thought there were restrictions on how you could use a sign-and-traded player to make salaries work, to prevent teams without cap space to take advantage of free agents to make the trade money work.


Judging from some googling and some reddit posts, it looks like I'm not alone in thinking sign-and-traded players can't be combined with other players from the same team.  However, nobody can seem to find authority for that rule.  So I'm not sure where that idea originates.


There is this limitation:


Quote
4. Signed-and-traded players can be difficult to salary-match in trades.

There’s one scenario in which a sign-and-trade may genuinely make sense — if a free agent wants to join a team without cap room. However, even that scenario can’t necessarily be handled like a normal trade, since the Base Year Compensation (BYC) rule often applies.

The BYC rule applies to a specific circumstance. If a player is being signed-and-traded via Early Bird or Bird rights by a team above the salary cap, gets a raise of at least 20%, and his salary is worth more than the minimum, his cap figure for salary-matching purposes will be affected. For the team acquiring him, his full salary would apply in a trade. For the team trading him, he would count for his previous salary or 50% of his new salary, whichever is greater.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/05/why-nba-sign-and-trades-are-rare.html

Yes, there are limitations.  There's the BYC rule.  Receiving a player in a sign-and-trade can result in a hard cap of the "apron".  Only players who were on a roster at the end of last season can be signed-and-traded. 

But, aggregation isn't a problem.  Under the old CBA this happened multiple times, and I don't think it has been abolished.

And you're right:  a lot of people think it's a rule.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: What is your ideal and realistic team next season?
« Reply #126 on: May 23, 2019, 10:35:55 PM »

Offline OldSchoolDude

  • Al Horford
  • Posts: 505
  • Tommy Points: 64
I really don't know if I want Kyrie  back, but I figure the C's have to make the offer.  I sort of hope he leaves.  He was supposed to do what Kawhi is doing in the playofs, and for the most part he did vs Indiana, but came up short in a way that is unacceptable for a Max guy/super star/#1 scoring option.  One of those games maybe but 4 in a row, not acceptable at all.  Also, team chemistry is rally important and I think that what ever happens some players are going to have to go.

Kryie stays:
 
PG - Kyrie
SG - Brown
SF - Hayward
PF - Harford
C - AD

Bench
PG - FA
SG - FA
SF - Simi
PF - Morris
C - Banes

End of the bench towel swingers

Williams, Pick #20, Pick #22

I think the popular view is that Smart and Tatum go for AD.  I disagree that they will want all three of our first round picks though because with the #1 and our three that would add 4 rookies on guaranteed deals and I don't think they want that.  I see it as our #14 and next years Memphis pick.   Add Yabusele to make the money work and I think that's the trade.   I don't think they want Yabusele but he works. If we tried Williams and Semi instead trade machine say the trade still fails so we would still need another player and I really don't think NO wast to add a bunch of bench players. So, Tatum, Smart, Yabuselle, $14, and Mem pick.  I think Rozier is offered a nice deal and we don't match it, so he's gone.  With AD and Kyrie I think Banes and Morris exercise their player options, but I don't think that we bring back Theis and his minutes go to Williams.  But if Kyrie was an issue for Morris and with Smart gone, I could see  Morris opting out.  In which case Williams would take the PF spot on the second unit.  I think Banes really likes it here so I really can't see him opting out.

Kyrie goes but roll the dice anyway:

PG - Kemba Walker

My hope is that we can sign him as a FA and I think he will fit better into the team culture.  I think the rest of the roster stays the same but only with Walker switching places with Irving.


Re: What is your ideal and realistic team next season?
« Reply #127 on: May 23, 2019, 11:18:30 PM »

Offline Chris22

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5081
  • Tommy Points: 460
Rozier, Brown, Hayward, Horford, and Davis.

Re: What is your ideal and realistic team next season?
« Reply #128 on: May 23, 2019, 11:21:26 PM »

Offline Ogaju

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10080
  • Tommy Points: 1090
Ideal = Curry, Harden, Kawhi, Giannis, and Durant.

Realistic team for Cetics = Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, Horford, Davis.

Re: What is your ideal and realistic team next season?
« Reply #129 on: May 23, 2019, 11:52:20 PM »

Offline trickybilly

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4143
  • Tommy Points: 476
I just hope we can add some elite 3 pt shooting. Basically I want Klay Thompson.

Ideal: Smart/Klay/Hayward/Horford/Davis

Realistic: Smart/Semi/Hayward/Horford/Davis
"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: What is your ideal and realistic team next season?
« Reply #130 on: May 24, 2019, 12:29:58 AM »

Online liam

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16504
  • Tommy Points: 1102
Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, Horford, Davis

Bench: Baynes, Semi, Rubio, TIMELORD, Dudley, Dozier, Isaiah Roby, Luka Samanic...
« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 12:39:36 AM by liam »

Re: What is your ideal and realistic team next season?
« Reply #131 on: May 24, 2019, 06:51:31 AM »

Online Silky

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1549
  • Tommy Points: 81
Just tossing around an idea/question.

But (Assuming player and team agree)

Couldn't something like Hayward and Rozier signed for a 1 year 20 mill dollar contract work in a deal for Beal and Mahinmi? (of course Boston would add some sort of pick in here)

Outgoing salary for Boston would be 51 million, incoming would be 41 million, and according to ESPN's trade checker those numbers make a legal trade.

I mean you, in this instance, would have the debate of if Hayward and 1 year of Rozier is worth Beal. I would argue yes as it gives them a pg for a year to replace the injured wall, Bet on Haywards recovery (they probably make playoffs in the East), and lines up massive expiring s over the next few seasons allowing for a bit of a rebuild on the fly.



but on to my thought of a deal to create my ideal team for next season.

NOP gets Mahinmi, Tatum, Smart, Memphis pick, Clipper pick, Boston 2021 first pick
gives: Davis, Moore. NOP adds a fat expiring deal they can move at deadline, adds a high value pick, and another pick this year as well as a future pick on top of an ALL NBA defensive SG/PG and a superstar potential in Tatum. Wing positions are set for a long time for them.

Washington gets Hayward, Sacramento pick, 2019 Boston second.
Gives, Beal, Mahinmi

Washington immediately saves 10 million in payroll. Bets on Haywards return to form and goes on a little mini tank next season until Wall comes back. Sacramento pick adds them another nice young cost controlled player this season.

Boston trades: Tatum, Smart, Hayward, all picks but Bostons own this year.

gets< Davis, Beal, Moore

This is why Boston does it.

Kyrie/MLE point guard Beverley/Wannamaker/
Beal/Moore/min player
Brown/Carter lle/Semi
Horford/Morris resigned/Dudly lle
Davis/Baynes/Williams


Dallas
PG:Kemba/Brunson/Barea  SG:Brogdon/Snell/Broekhoff  SF: Doncic/Batum/Finley-smith  PF: White/Kleber/Dirk  C: Jordan/Powell/Sejri

Bucks
G-Hill, Bledsoe, Matthews, Snell, DiVincenzo, Connaughton, Brown F-Greek, Middleton, Illyasova, Smith, Maker, Spalding, Wood C- Lopez,

Re: What is your ideal and realistic team next season?
« Reply #132 on: May 24, 2019, 06:58:45 AM »

Online Csfan1984

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6122
  • Tommy Points: 104
Just tossing around an idea/question.

But (Assuming player and team agree)

Couldn't something like Hayward and Rozier signed for a 1 year 20 mill dollar contract work in a deal for Beal and Mahinmi? (of course Boston would add some sort of pick in here)

Outgoing salary for Boston would be 51 million, incoming would be 41 million, and according to ESPN's trade checker those numbers make a legal trade.

I mean you, in this instance, would have the debate of if Hayward and 1 year of Rozier is worth Beal. I would argue yes as it gives them a pg for a year to replace the injured wall, Bet on Haywards recovery (they probably make playoffs in the East), and lines up massive expiring s over the next few seasons allowing for a bit of a rebuild on the fly.



but on to my thought of a deal to create my ideal team for next season.

NOP gets Mahinmi, Tatum, Smart, Memphis pick, Clipper pick, Boston 2021 first pick
gives: Davis, Moore. NOP adds a fat expiring deal they can move at deadline, adds a high value pick, and another pick this year as well as a future pick on top of an ALL NBA defensive SG/PG and a superstar potential in Tatum. Wing positions are set for a long time for them.

Washington gets Hayward, Sacramento pick, 2019 Boston second.
Gives, Beal, Mahinmi

Washington immediately saves 10 million in payroll. Bets on Haywards return to form and goes on a little mini tank next season until Wall comes back. Sacramento pick adds them another nice young cost controlled player this season.

Boston trades: Tatum, Smart, Hayward, all picks but Bostons own this year.

gets< Davis, Beal, Moore

This is why Boston does it.

Kyrie/MLE point guard Beverley/Wannamaker/
Beal/Moore/min player
Brown/Carter lle/Semi
Horford/Morris resigned/Dudly lle
Davis/Baynes/Williams
I believe S&T have to be three year contracts.
Trade deadline mock team: Celtics,
Irving, Rozier, Wanna
Smart, Robinson, Dozier
Tatum, Morris, Semi
Griffin, Theis, Yab
Horford, Baynes, Williams

Re: What is your ideal and realistic team next season?
« Reply #133 on: May 24, 2019, 07:03:06 AM »

Offline Somebody

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2230
  • Tommy Points: 57
  • KANSEI DORIFUTO
Just tossing around an idea/question.

But (Assuming player and team agree)

Couldn't something like Hayward and Rozier signed for a 1 year 20 mill dollar contract work in a deal for Beal and Mahinmi? (of course Boston would add some sort of pick in here)

Outgoing salary for Boston would be 51 million, incoming would be 41 million, and according to ESPN's trade checker those numbers make a legal trade.

I mean you, in this instance, would have the debate of if Hayward and 1 year of Rozier is worth Beal. I would argue yes as it gives them a pg for a year to replace the injured wall, Bet on Haywards recovery (they probably make playoffs in the East), and lines up massive expiring s over the next few seasons allowing for a bit of a rebuild on the fly.



but on to my thought of a deal to create my ideal team for next season.

NOP gets Mahinmi, Tatum, Smart, Memphis pick, Clipper pick, Boston 2021 first pick
gives: Davis, Moore. NOP adds a fat expiring deal they can move at deadline, adds a high value pick, and another pick this year as well as a future pick on top of an ALL NBA defensive SG/PG and a superstar potential in Tatum. Wing positions are set for a long time for them.

Washington gets Hayward, Sacramento pick, 2019 Boston second.
Gives, Beal, Mahinmi

Washington immediately saves 10 million in payroll. Bets on Haywards return to form and goes on a little mini tank next season until Wall comes back. Sacramento pick adds them another nice young cost controlled player this season.

Boston trades: Tatum, Smart, Hayward, all picks but Bostons own this year.

gets< Davis, Beal, Moore

This is why Boston does it.

Kyrie/MLE point guard Beverley/Wannamaker/
Beal/Moore/min player
Brown/Carter lle/Semi
Horford/Morris resigned/Dudly lle
Davis/Baynes/Williams
Our outgoing salary in that case will be 41 million, as Rozier's outgoing salary will only count as half the salary he will actually earn. Also I believe that S&Ts have to be at least 3 year deals, as pointed out by Csfan1984. And btw Washington will not sell Beal for that type of pu pu platter lol, we'll probably have to attach multiple first round picks for such a deal to be done.

Re: What is your ideal and realistic team next season?
« Reply #134 on: May 24, 2019, 07:32:46 AM »

Offline Somebody

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2230
  • Tommy Points: 57
  • KANSEI DORIFUTO
My ideal team would kind of be like:
PG: Kyrie/Joseph/Larkin
SG: Brown/Ellington/Dozier
SF: Hayward/J Green/Semi
PF: Horford/Morris/draft pick
C: AD/Baynes/R Lopez
Deal for AD would be something like Tatum+Smart+Williams+Yabu+Memphis pick+#20+#22+#51
« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 07:39:23 AM by Somebody »

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsStrong Forums.

Community

Signup to win FREE tickets

* indicates required