CelticsStrong
Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: mef730 on June 13, 2018, 08:54:18 AM
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ESPN did one of their "Seven trades we'd like to see for Kawhi Leonard" articles:
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23295190/kawhi-leonard-trades-see-san-antonio-spurs-make-nba
I occasionally sense an underlying belief around here that ESPN has it in for Boston teams. Sometimes I just laugh it off, sometimes it hits home.
But what's with these trade suggestions? For example, they have Philly giving up Fultz, Covington and the No. 10 pick for Leonard. Portland gives up McCollum and a first. The Lakers give up Deng, Ball and Kuzma. Miami gives up pieces: Dragic, Richardson, Winslow, Adebayo.
I'm not saying that there aren't some decent prospects or players in that grouping, but here's what they suggest the Celtics give up:
Trade #1: Kyrie, 2018 #27 and "whatever other picks get the deal done."
Trade #2: Terry and Hayward for Kawhi and Mills.
Seriously? Prospects or decent players from everyone else, stars from the Celtics? DeMar DeRozan is the only other player they suggest that comes close.
I don't know who comes up with these ideas, but they need some help.*
Mike
*On the other hand, maybe they don't need help. They clearly did their job by getting me to click on the article and re-post it.
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I noticed that too. The difference between Kyrie and every other player in those trade proposals is ridiculous. I had to scroll through the other trade proposals a second time to make sure I read them correctly. I would love to have Kawhi on the Celtics, but I'm not trading Kyrie to do it.
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I noticed that too. The difference between Kyrie and every other player in those trade proposals is ridiculous. I had to scroll through the other trade proposals a second time to make sure I read them correctly. I would love to have Kawhi on the Celtics, but I'm not trading Kyrie to do it.
That's a compliment. What other team can give up a great player(s) to get Kawhi, and still have a ton of assets remaining?
I think people want to automatically put the price higher on a trade involving the Celtics, because we're the only team who can afford it. Obviously, GSW isn't trading one of their big 4, and no other team in the league has close to as many valuable pieces as we do. Kyrie, Hayward, big Al, Tatum, Brown, the Sac pick, even Smart and Rozier, we bring more chips to the table than any other team chasing GSW.
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LOL. That Philly one is laughably bad, but that Miami one?? That's beyond delirious
One of the comments had me cackling though. Gotta give it to the ESPN crowd for being absolutely moronic
There is absolutely no way the Sixers would put Dario Saric in this deal and if they did, there would be a revolt among Sixers fans ... Plus give up Markelle Fultz and a first-round pick? Seriously? Oh and Jarryd Bayless? I will send him to the Spurs just for playing! First Saric is the heart of the Sixers team. Secondly, once Fultz is healthy, you will have a Ben Simmons-like player who will better defense.
Talk about out of touch with reality, rofl. Really puts some of the bad takes you see on here in perspective. I've never been more appreciative of celticsblog
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No thanks
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LOL. That Philly one is laughably bad, but that Miami one?? That's beyond delirious
One of the comments had me cackling though. Gotta give it to the ESPN crowd for being absolutely moronic
There is absolutely no way the Sixers would put Dario Saric in this deal and if they did, there would be a revolt among Sixers fans ... Plus give up Markelle Fultz and a first-round pick? Seriously? Oh and Jarryd Bayless? I will send him to the Spurs just for playing! First Saric is the heart of the Sixers team. Secondly, once Fultz is healthy, you will have a Ben Simmons-like player who will better defense.
Talk about out of touch with reality, rofl. Really puts some of the bad takes you see on here in perspective. I've never been more appreciative of celticsblog
ROFL that stuff is rich!!! ;D
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I am fine with the Cs deals they propose (not the 'whatever other picks' part, though); it's just that the other teams aren't giving up nearly enough.
I would gladly exchange Kyrie (and #27) for Kahwi and would have no problem upgrading Hayward and an expiring Rozier.
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It's like many people don't understand who Kawhi Leonard is, since he doesn't play with GSW or Lebron.
SAS wouldn't even consider most of those proposals. They're trying to bring KL back into the fold now, but if they don't and have to trade him, Philly, Miami, etc wouldn't even get a phone call with those offers.
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ESPN posted a similar kind of article like 1.5 months ago. They at one point even suggested LAL could get Kawhi by simply trading Ingram, whereas everyone else had to pay king's ransoms of sorts. And then a comment from a Lakers fan defending it was like, "Ingram is better and has a better future than all the prospects/players involved in the other deals, that's why" LOL talk about delusional :laugh:
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I noticed that too. The difference between Kyrie and every other player in those trade proposals is ridiculous. I had to scroll through the other trade proposals a second time to make sure I read them correctly. I would love to have Kawhi on the Celtics, but I'm not trading Kyrie to do it.
That's a compliment. What other team can give up a great player(s) to get Kawhi, and still have a ton of assets remaining?
I think people want to automatically put the price higher on a trade involving the Celtics, because we're the only team who can afford it. Obviously, GSW isn't trading one of their big 4, and no other team in the league has close to as many valuable pieces as we do. Kyrie, Hayward, big Al, Tatum, Brown, the Sac pick, even Smart and Rozier, we bring more chips to the table than any other team chasing GSW.
1000% of this.
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I am fine with the Cs deals they propose (not the 'whatever other picks' part, though); it's just that the other teams aren't giving up nearly enough.
Agree 100% with this part of your post (though trading Hayward now strikes me as a cold move even for Ainge). Some of these other deals are straight ripoffs. If you expect the Celtics to trade Kyrie and then some for Kawhi, then other teams need similar outbound value in their deals. Philly, let's talk about Simmons. Fultz couldn't get on the court in the playoffs and you're trying to tell me that he can anchor a trade for an MVP candidate. Come on. LA, I need both Ingram and Ball. Miami, sorry but no - you can't compete when other teams are offering real stars. If I'm San Antonio, I also don't think I'm interested in that Toronto offer. Demar is too [dang]ed expensive for what he contributes, and he's proven time and time again that he wilts when it matters.
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ESPN posted a similar kind of article like 1.5 months ago. They at one point even suggested LAL could get Kawhi by simply trading Ingram, whereas everyone else had to pay king's ransoms of sorts. And then a comment from a Lakers fan defending it was like, "Ingram is better and has a better future than all the prospects/players involved in the other deals, that's why" LOL talk about delusional :laugh:
Ingram has a lot of potential though and played pretty darn well down the stretch. I doubt he alone is enough for Leonard, but he probably is very highly thought of around the league. Most likely more highly thought of then Brown as an example. he isn't in the Simmons class of prospect I don't think, but he probably isn't that far behind him either.
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ESPN posted a similar kind of article like 1.5 months ago. They at one point even suggested LAL could get Kawhi by simply trading Ingram, whereas everyone else had to pay king's ransoms of sorts. And then a comment from a Lakers fan defending it was like, "Ingram is better and has a better future than all the prospects/players involved in the other deals, that's why" LOL talk about delusional :laugh:
Ingram has a lot of potential though and played pretty darn well down the stretch. I doubt he alone is enough for Leonard, but he probably is very highly thought of around the league. Most likely more highly thought of then Brown as an example. he isn't in the Simmons class of prospect I don't think, but he probably isn't that far behind him either.
As always, young player stats on losing teams count for like 2/3 the stats of a young player stats on a winning team.
Ingram looks like he will be a good player, but he has yet to prove he can leverage his abilities into helping a winning team. It's not his fault, but he is unproven.
I still see him as a scoring (instead of facilitating) Nic Batum, who I really like. I'd like him on the Cs.
In trades like these, you see the media slant. Essentially they are saying Irving + draft picks = Ingram, which is ridiculous.
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Ingram has a lot of potential though and played pretty darn well down the stretch. I doubt he alone is enough for Leonard, but he probably is very highly thought of around the league. Most likely more highly thought of then Brown as an example.
Yeah, I'm sure that people around the league think more highly of the beanpole with inefficient scoring and no defense over the player who showed versatile defense and composure while scoring 18 points per game for a team that came within one quarter of making the Finals.
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Ingram has a lot of potential though and played pretty darn well down the stretch. I doubt he alone is enough for Leonard, but he probably is very highly thought of around the league. Most likely more highly thought of then Brown as an example. he isn't in the Simmons class of prospect I don't think, but he probably isn't that far behind him either.
?? Ingram didn't play down the stretch. He sat out 20 of their last 22 games.
More highly thought of than Brown after Brown's playoff performance? Perhaps, by some.
Personally, I wouldn't trade Brown for Ingram straight up. My impression, admittedly having only watched Ingram a handful of games, is that Ingram has a higher potential as a shooter, but isn't the athlete, and nowhere near the defender Brown is. If I had to bet my life on one of them becoming a perennial all star, I'd take Brown.
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Ingram has a lot of potential though and played pretty darn well down the stretch. I doubt he alone is enough for Leonard, but he probably is very highly thought of around the league. Most likely more highly thought of then Brown as an example.
Yeah, I'm sure that people around the league think more highly of the beanpole with inefficient scoring and no defense over the player who showed versatile defense and composure while scoring 18 points per game for a team that came within one quarter of making the Finals.
The bolded isn't actually true, by the way. Ingram still struggles from the line, but his shooting has improved a lot particularly from deep. And he uses his length well on defense.
Ingram is a very good prospect. I wouldn't take him over Brown, but it's closer than this board wants to believe - perhaps even a push.
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Ingram has a lot of potential though and played pretty darn well down the stretch. I doubt he alone is enough for Leonard, but he probably is very highly thought of around the league. Most likely more highly thought of then Brown as an example. he isn't in the Simmons class of prospect I don't think, but he probably isn't that far behind him either.
?? Ingram didn't play down the stretch. He sat out 20 of their last 22 games.
More highly thought of than Brown after Brown's playoff performance? Perhaps, by some.
Personally, I wouldn't trade Brown for Ingram straight up. My impression, admittedly having only watched Ingram a handful of games, is that Ingram has a higher potential as a shooter, but isn't the athlete, and nowhere near the defender Brown is. If I had to bet my life on one of them becoming a perennial all star, I'd take Brown.
I meant down his stretch and it is probably a good thing you don't have to bet your life on Brown as it probably wouldn't end well for you.
The Lakers were 16-7 in his last 23 games (16-10 in 2018). In January he went for 14.2/5.5/3.8 and shot 36.4% from 3. In February he upped those numbers to 18.6/5.2/5.6 and 52.2% from 3. He only played 3 games in March, but still shot 50% from 3.
There was a lot to like with Ingram and the Lakers were winning when he was playing. Now again, I don't think he is a Simmons/Tatum type of prospect, but I think he is pretty clearly in the Brown level and I would suspect most of the league probably has him ranked higher than Brown.
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Jaylen Brown had a better second season than Ingram. Very similar offensive stats with Brown having the better total shooting% stat and Ingram the better assist rate. However, Brown is the better defender and the overall advanced stats favor Brown.
http://bkref.com/tiny/TCnJv
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Ingram has a lot of potential though and played pretty darn well down the stretch. I doubt he alone is enough for Leonard, but he probably is very highly thought of around the league. Most likely more highly thought of then Brown as an example. he isn't in the Simmons class of prospect I don't think, but he probably isn't that far behind him either.
?? Ingram didn't play down the stretch. He sat out 20 of their last 22 games.
More highly thought of than Brown after Brown's playoff performance? Perhaps, by some.
Personally, I wouldn't trade Brown for Ingram straight up. My impression, admittedly having only watched Ingram a handful of games, is that Ingram has a higher potential as a shooter, but isn't the athlete, and nowhere near the defender Brown is. If I had to bet my life on one of them becoming a perennial all star, I'd take Brown.
I meant down his stretch and it is probably a good thing you don't have to bet your life on Brown as it probably wouldn't end well for you.
The Lakers were 16-7 in his last 23 games (16-10 in 2018). In January he went for 14.2/5.5/3.8 and shot 36.4% from 3. In February he upped those numbers to 18.6/5.2/5.6 and 52.2% from 3. He only played 3 games in March, but still shot 50% from 3.
There was a lot to like with Ingram and the Lakers were winning when he was playing. Now again, I don't think he is a Simmons/Tatum type of prospect, but I think he is pretty clearly in the Brown level and I would suspect most of the league probably has him ranked higher than Brown.
This is cherrypicking stats.
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Ingram has a lot of potential though and played pretty darn well down the stretch. I doubt he alone is enough for Leonard, but he probably is very highly thought of around the league. Most likely more highly thought of then Brown as an example. he isn't in the Simmons class of prospect I don't think, but he probably isn't that far behind him either.
?? Ingram didn't play down the stretch. He sat out 20 of their last 22 games.
More highly thought of than Brown after Brown's playoff performance? Perhaps, by some.
Personally, I wouldn't trade Brown for Ingram straight up. My impression, admittedly having only watched Ingram a handful of games, is that Ingram has a higher potential as a shooter, but isn't the athlete, and nowhere near the defender Brown is. If I had to bet my life on one of them becoming a perennial all star, I'd take Brown.
I meant down his stretch and it is probably a good thing you don't have to bet your life on Brown as it probably wouldn't end well for you.
The Lakers were 16-7 in his last 23 games (16-10 in 2018). In January he went for 14.2/5.5/3.8 and shot 36.4% from 3. In February he upped those numbers to 18.6/5.2/5.6 and 52.2% from 3. He only played 3 games in March, but still shot 50% from 3.
There was a lot to like with Ingram and the Lakers were winning when he was playing. Now again, I don't think he is a Simmons/Tatum type of prospect, but I think he is pretty clearly in the Brown level and I would suspect most of the league probably has him ranked higher than Brown.
This is cherrypicking stats.
Or maybe it shows that the player that was considered very raw as a result of his age was turning the corner. Maybe those last 2 months were a fluke. Only time will tell, but there is a very real and distinct reason that everyone knew Simmons was going 1 and Ingram was going 2 in that draft and then it was a take your pick from the next 6 guys at 3-8.
Ingram is almost a full year younger than Brown as well.
I suspect if you polled NBA persons, in a redraft Ingram still goes 2. Brown almost certainly goes 3 (whereas he wouldn't have at near the frequency closer to that draft).
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End of the day cant see it happen nor Leonard comfortable with the Boston media
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Ingram has a lot of potential though and played pretty darn well down the stretch. I doubt he alone is enough for Leonard, but he probably is very highly thought of around the league. Most likely more highly thought of then Brown as an example. he isn't in the Simmons class of prospect I don't think, but he probably isn't that far behind him either.
?? Ingram didn't play down the stretch. He sat out 20 of their last 22 games.
More highly thought of than Brown after Brown's playoff performance? Perhaps, by some.
Personally, I wouldn't trade Brown for Ingram straight up. My impression, admittedly having only watched Ingram a handful of games, is that Ingram has a higher potential as a shooter, but isn't the athlete, and nowhere near the defender Brown is. If I had to bet my life on one of them becoming a perennial all star, I'd take Brown.
I meant down his stretch and it is probably a good thing you don't have to bet your life on Brown as it probably wouldn't end well for you.
The Lakers were 16-7 in his last 23 games (16-10 in 2018). In January he went for 14.2/5.5/3.8 and shot 36.4% from 3. In February he upped those numbers to 18.6/5.2/5.6 and 52.2% from 3. He only played 3 games in March, but still shot 50% from 3.
There was a lot to like with Ingram and the Lakers were winning when he was playing. Now again, I don't think he is a Simmons/Tatum type of prospect, but I think he is pretty clearly in the Brown level and I would suspect most of the league probably has him ranked higher than Brown.
This is cherrypicking stats.
Or maybe it shows that the player that was considered very raw as a result of his age was turning the corner. Maybe those last 2 months were a fluke. Only time will tell, but there is a very real and distinct reason that everyone knew Simmons was going 1 and Ingram was going 2 in that draft and then it was a take your pick from the next 6 guys at 3-8.
Ingram is almost a full year younger than Brown as well.
I suspect if you polled NBA persons, in a redraft Ingram still goes 2. Brown almost certainly goes 3 (whereas he wouldn't have at near the frequency closer to that draft).
No, you cherrypicked 23 games out of a season to make the case that Ingram is better than Brown. 23 games aren't enough to make that claim like that especially given that it's at odds with the stats for the whole season.
I suspect you don't know what a poll of NBA GMs would say about who they would pick.
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Ingram has a lot of potential though and played pretty darn well down the stretch. I doubt he alone is enough for Leonard, but he probably is very highly thought of around the league. Most likely more highly thought of then Brown as an example. he isn't in the Simmons class of prospect I don't think, but he probably isn't that far behind him either.
?? Ingram didn't play down the stretch. He sat out 20 of their last 22 games.
More highly thought of than Brown after Brown's playoff performance? Perhaps, by some.
Personally, I wouldn't trade Brown for Ingram straight up. My impression, admittedly having only watched Ingram a handful of games, is that Ingram has a higher potential as a shooter, but isn't the athlete, and nowhere near the defender Brown is. If I had to bet my life on one of them becoming a perennial all star, I'd take Brown.
I meant down his stretch and it is probably a good thing you don't have to bet your life on Brown as it probably wouldn't end well for you.
The Lakers were 16-7 in his last 23 games (16-10 in 2018). In January he went for 14.2/5.5/3.8 and shot 36.4% from 3. In February he upped those numbers to 18.6/5.2/5.6 and 52.2% from 3. He only played 3 games in March, but still shot 50% from 3.
There was a lot to like with Ingram and the Lakers were winning when he was playing. Now again, I don't think he is a Simmons/Tatum type of prospect, but I think he is pretty clearly in the Brown level and I would suspect most of the league probably has him ranked higher than Brown.
You're actually using his going 4 for 7 in March as a reason to suggest he's better than Brown. KGLL level of ridiculous.
Averaging 18.6 a game in one month against mostly awful competition in meaningless games is more relevant than Jaylen scoring 18/game in the playoffs........ Good call.
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Or maybe it shows that the player that was considered very raw as a result of his age was turning the corner. Maybe those last 2 months were a fluke. Only time will tell, but there is a very real and distinct reason that everyone knew Simmons was going 1 and Ingram was going 2 in that draft and then it was a take your pick from the next 6 guys at 3-8.
Ingram is almost a full year younger than Brown as well.
I suspect if you polled NBA persons, in a redraft Ingram still goes 2. Brown almost certainly goes 3 (whereas he wouldn't have at near the frequency closer to that draft).
It could be a sign of his talent level, sure, but it's also cherry picking. Ingram made 41 three pointers the entire season... you can't go slice that down to a month and read much into it. If anything Brown has proven more as an outside shooter with 3x the makes at a higher percentage. Of course they are both young and projections are hard so it's not crazy to prefer Ingram long-term.
16/5/4 and a sweet stroke at age 20, I'd love to have him. If he learns to defend, watch out. I think you'd have a healthy debate among GMs.
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Ingram has a lot of potential though and played pretty darn well down the stretch. I doubt he alone is enough for Leonard, but he probably is very highly thought of around the league. Most likely more highly thought of then Brown as an example. he isn't in the Simmons class of prospect I don't think, but he probably isn't that far behind him either.
?? Ingram didn't play down the stretch. He sat out 20 of their last 22 games.
More highly thought of than Brown after Brown's playoff performance? Perhaps, by some.
Personally, I wouldn't trade Brown for Ingram straight up. My impression, admittedly having only watched Ingram a handful of games, is that Ingram has a higher potential as a shooter, but isn't the athlete, and nowhere near the defender Brown is. If I had to bet my life on one of them becoming a perennial all star, I'd take Brown.
While he certainly is lacking in the athleticism department, what's even worse is that, in terms of agility/quickness, dude is really only rivaled by Kyle Anderson, imo, LOL. Had Ingram been white, I'm honestly unsure as to whether or not he even would have been drafted in 2016.
On the other hand, had he been a European prospect, I'm sure that everyone would have been gushing over his skill level ::). Give me a break.
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ESPN did one of their "Seven trades we'd like to see for Kawhi Leonard" articles:
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23295190/kawhi-leonard-trades-see-san-antonio-spurs-make-nba
I occasionally sense an underlying belief around here that ESPN has it in for Boston teams. Sometimes I just laugh it off, sometimes it hits home.
But what's with these trade suggestions? For example, they have Philly giving up Fultz, Covington and the No. 10 pick for Leonard. Portland gives up McCollum and a first. The Lakers give up Deng, Ball and Kuzma. Miami gives up pieces: Dragic, Richardson, Winslow, Adebayo.
I'm not saying that there aren't some decent prospects or players in that grouping, but here's what they suggest the Celtics give up:
Trade #1: Kyrie, 2018 #27 and "whatever other picks get the deal done."
Trade #2: Terry and Hayward for Kawhi and Mills.
Seriously? Prospects or decent players from everyone else, stars from the Celtics? DeMar DeRozan is the only other player they suggest that comes close.
I don't know who comes up with these ideas, but they need some help.*
Mike
*On the other hand, maybe they don't need help. They clearly did their job by getting me to click on the article and re-post it.
Why seven trades, though? Is this some kind of ESPN/Kevin Bacon spin-off?
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Ingram has a lot of potential though and played pretty darn well down the stretch. I doubt he alone is enough for Leonard, but he probably is very highly thought of around the league. Most likely more highly thought of then Brown as an example. he isn't in the Simmons class of prospect I don't think, but he probably isn't that far behind him either.
?? Ingram didn't play down the stretch. He sat out 20 of their last 22 games.
More highly thought of than Brown after Brown's playoff performance? Perhaps, by some.
Personally, I wouldn't trade Brown for Ingram straight up. My impression, admittedly having only watched Ingram a handful of games, is that Ingram has a higher potential as a shooter, but isn't the athlete, and nowhere near the defender Brown is. If I had to bet my life on one of them becoming a perennial all star, I'd take Brown.
While he certainly is lacking in the athleticism department, what's even worse is that, in terms of agility/quickness, dude is really only rivaled by Kyle Anderson, imo, LOL. Had Ingram been white, I'm honestly unsure as to whether or not he even would have been drafted in 2016.
On the other hand, had he been a European prospect, I'm sure that everyone would have been gushing over his skill level ::). Give me a break.
Hey don’t you diss Slow-Mo!
People were still gushing over his skill level when he was at college. I remember the days when people were saying things like “would you rather draft LeBron (Simmons) or Durant (Ingram)?” Good times!
I don’t think anyone would even consider taking Ingram over Brown, and after next season I can see Brown being on the same tier as Simmons
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We don't need Kawhi with all that baggage...AND the amount of money he'll get.
Tatum/Brown/Hayward are just fine.
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LOL. That Philly one is laughably bad, but that Miami one?? That's beyond delirious
One of the comments had me cackling though. Gotta give it to the ESPN crowd for being absolutely moronic
There is absolutely no way the Sixers would put Dario Saric in this deal and if they did, there would be a revolt among Sixers fans ... Plus give up Markelle Fultz and a first-round pick? Seriously? Oh and Jarryd Bayless? I will send him to the Spurs just for playing! First Saric is the heart of the Sixers team. Secondly, once Fultz is healthy, you will have a Ben Simmons-like player who will better defense.
Talk about out of touch with reality, rofl. Really puts some of the bad takes you see on here in perspective. I've never been more appreciative of celticsblog
ROFL that stuff is rich!!! ;D
That was discovered to be Brian Colangelo.
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LOL. That Philly one is laughably bad, but that Miami one?? That's beyond delirious
One of the comments had me cackling though. Gotta give it to the ESPN crowd for being absolutely moronic
There is absolutely no way the Sixers would put Dario Saric in this deal and if they did, there would be a revolt among Sixers fans ... Plus give up Markelle Fultz and a first-round pick? Seriously? Oh and Jarryd Bayless? I will send him to the Spurs just for playing! First Saric is the heart of the Sixers team. Secondly, once Fultz is healthy, you will have a Ben Simmons-like player who will better defense.
Talk about out of touch with reality, rofl. Really puts some of the bad takes you see on here in perspective. I've never been more appreciative of celticsblog
ROFL that stuff is rich!!! ;D
That was discovered to be Brian Colangelo.
Actually it was his wife. Lol
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Ingram has a lot of potential though and played pretty darn well down the stretch. I doubt he alone is enough for Leonard, but he probably is very highly thought of around the league. Most likely more highly thought of then Brown as an example. he isn't in the Simmons class of prospect I don't think, but he probably isn't that far behind him either.
?? Ingram didn't play down the stretch. He sat out 20 of their last 22 games.
More highly thought of than Brown after Brown's playoff performance? Perhaps, by some.
Personally, I wouldn't trade Brown for Ingram straight up. My impression, admittedly having only watched Ingram a handful of games, is that Ingram has a higher potential as a shooter, but isn't the athlete, and nowhere near the defender Brown is. If I had to bet my life on one of them becoming a perennial all star, I'd take Brown.
I meant down his stretch and it is probably a good thing you don't have to bet your life on Brown as it probably wouldn't end well for you.
The Lakers were 16-7 in his last 23 games (16-10 in 2018). In January he went for 14.2/5.5/3.8 and shot 36.4% from 3. In February he upped those numbers to 18.6/5.2/5.6 and 52.2% from 3. He only played 3 games in March, but still shot 50% from 3.
There was a lot to like with Ingram and the Lakers were winning when he was playing. Now again, I don't think he is a Simmons/Tatum type of prospect, but I think he is pretty clearly in the Brown level and I would suspect most of the league probably has him ranked higher than Brown.
This is cherrypicking stats.
Or maybe it shows that the player that was considered very raw as a result of his age was turning the corner. Maybe those last 2 months were a fluke. Only time will tell, but there is a very real and distinct reason that everyone knew Simmons was going 1 and Ingram was going 2 in that draft and then it was a take your pick from the next 6 guys at 3-8.
Ingram is almost a full year younger than Brown as well.
I suspect if you polled NBA persons, in a redraft Ingram still goes 2. Brown almost certainly goes 3 (whereas he wouldn't have at near the frequency closer to that draft).
Josh Jackson shot 38% on college threes as a freshman and people said it wasn’t a big enough sample size. Who cares what Ingram did for 6-7 weeks? Regardless, 20-25 games in January and Feb is worth less than 7 games in the conference finals, IE Jaylen Brown.
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Ingram has a lot of potential though and played pretty darn well down the stretch. I doubt he alone is enough for Leonard, but he probably is very highly thought of around the league. Most likely more highly thought of then Brown as an example. he isn't in the Simmons class of prospect I don't think, but he probably isn't that far behind him either.
?? Ingram didn't play down the stretch. He sat out 20 of their last 22 games.
More highly thought of than Brown after Brown's playoff performance? Perhaps, by some.
Personally, I wouldn't trade Brown for Ingram straight up. My impression, admittedly having only watched Ingram a handful of games, is that Ingram has a higher potential as a shooter, but isn't the athlete, and nowhere near the defender Brown is. If I had to bet my life on one of them becoming a perennial all star, I'd take Brown.
I meant down his stretch and it is probably a good thing you don't have to bet your life on Brown as it probably wouldn't end well for you.
The Lakers were 16-7 in his last 23 games (16-10 in 2018). In January he went for 14.2/5.5/3.8 and shot 36.4% from 3. In February he upped those numbers to 18.6/5.2/5.6 and 52.2% from 3. He only played 3 games in March, but still shot 50% from 3.
There was a lot to like with Ingram and the Lakers were winning when he was playing. Now again, I don't think he is a Simmons/Tatum type of prospect, but I think he is pretty clearly in the Brown level and I would suspect most of the league probably has him ranked higher than Brown.
This is cherrypicking stats.
Or maybe it shows that the player that was considered very raw as a result of his age was turning the corner. Maybe those last 2 months were a fluke. Only time will tell, but there is a very real and distinct reason that everyone knew Simmons was going 1 and Ingram was going 2 in that draft and then it was a take your pick from the next 6 guys at 3-8.
Ingram is almost a full year younger than Brown as well.
I suspect if you polled NBA persons, in a redraft Ingram still goes 2. Brown almost certainly goes 3 (whereas he wouldn't have at near the frequency closer to that draft).
The Lakers had all of 4 quality wins during Jan and Feb with the Spurs decimated (Pacers, Celtics, OKC x2) but, to cherrypick, only 2 wins against decent opponents besides OKC, and more than 4 losses to bottom 8 teams. So Ingram’s stats look pretty empty.
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Ingram has a lot of potential though and played pretty darn well down the stretch. I doubt he alone is enough for Leonard, but he probably is very highly thought of around the league. Most likely more highly thought of then Brown as an example. he isn't in the Simmons class of prospect I don't think, but he probably isn't that far behind him either.
?? Ingram didn't play down the stretch. He sat out 20 of their last 22 games.
More highly thought of than Brown after Brown's playoff performance? Perhaps, by some.
Personally, I wouldn't trade Brown for Ingram straight up. My impression, admittedly having only watched Ingram a handful of games, is that Ingram has a higher potential as a shooter, but isn't the athlete, and nowhere near the defender Brown is. If I had to bet my life on one of them becoming a perennial all star, I'd take Brown.
While he certainly is lacking in the athleticism department, what's even worse is that, in terms of agility/quickness, dude is really only rivaled by Kyle Anderson, imo, LOL. Had Ingram been white, I'm honestly unsure as to whether or not he even would have been drafted in 2016.
On the other hand, had he been a European prospect, I'm sure that everyone would have been gushing over his skill level ::). Give me a break.
Hey don’t you diss Slow-Mo!
People were still gushing over his skill level when he was at college. I remember the days when people were saying things like “would you rather draft LeBron (Simmons) or Durant (Ingram)?” Good times!
I don’t think anyone would even consider taking Ingram over Brown, and after next season I can see Brown being on the same tier as Simmons
Lol. Yeah, I never saw the Durant comparison, body type notwithstanding, of course ;D.
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Ingram has a lot of potential though and played pretty darn well down the stretch. I doubt he alone is enough for Leonard, but he probably is very highly thought of around the league. Most likely more highly thought of then Brown as an example. he isn't in the Simmons class of prospect I don't think, but he probably isn't that far behind him either.
?? Ingram didn't play down the stretch. He sat out 20 of their last 22 games.
More highly thought of than Brown after Brown's playoff performance? Perhaps, by some.
Personally, I wouldn't trade Brown for Ingram straight up. My impression, admittedly having only watched Ingram a handful of games, is that Ingram has a higher potential as a shooter, but isn't the athlete, and nowhere near the defender Brown is. If I had to bet my life on one of them becoming a perennial all star, I'd take Brown.
I meant down his stretch and it is probably a good thing you don't have to bet your life on Brown as it probably wouldn't end well for you.
The Lakers were 16-7 in his last 23 games (16-10 in 2018). In January he went for 14.2/5.5/3.8 and shot 36.4% from 3. In February he upped those numbers to 18.6/5.2/5.6 and 52.2% from 3. He only played 3 games in March, but still shot 50% from 3.
There was a lot to like with Ingram and the Lakers were winning when he was playing. Now again, I don't think he is a Simmons/Tatum type of prospect, but I think he is pretty clearly in the Brown level and I would suspect most of the league probably has him ranked higher than Brown.
Brown is a head over heels better defender than Ingram. Brown had the 19th most votes for 2018 All-Defense team, with 5 1st team votes!!! They shoot similar percentages for FG%, FT%, and 3PT% but looking closer, Brown takes a much higher percentage of his shots from 3, like 38% to 14%. Hell, Brown made more 3 pointers in the pressure filled, NBA playoffs than Ingram made all year. Brown is the more efficient scorer. AND Brown proved himself on the largest stage possible.
I think its a safe bet that after the playoffs, most if not all GMs are looking at Brown as the better player with higher upside. Hell, I would venture to guess if you asked Lebron James if he could have 2 21 year old and younger players on his team, who would he want, he's probably saying Tatum and Brown.
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Ingram has a lot of potential though and played pretty darn well down the stretch. I doubt he alone is enough for Leonard, but he probably is very highly thought of around the league. Most likely more highly thought of then Brown as an example.
Yeah, I'm sure that people around the league think more highly of the beanpole with inefficient scoring and no defense over the player who showed versatile defense and composure while scoring 18 points per game for a team that came within one quarter of making the Finals.
The bolded isn't actually true, by the way. Ingram still struggles from the line, but his shooting has improved a lot particularly from deep. And he uses his length well on defense.
Ingram is a very good prospect. I wouldn't take him over Brown, but it's closer than this board wants to believe - perhaps even a push.
Eh, he took less than 2 threes per game as wing and isn't a good free throw shooter, as you said. He needs to be a much better scorer within 10 feet in order to make up for that.
He's improving a bit as a playmaker but doesn't generate much in the way of steals or blocks. On top of that he's a poor rebounder.
I just don't see it. Looks like a borderline starter to me.
Besides, the question here is what people around the league think about the two players, and I just don't buy that talent evaluators around the league put more stock in what Ingram has done for a bad Lakers team with no stakes than what Brown has done for a team that made the ECF two years in a row. Playoff performance gets valued more highly than regular season performance. There are good reasons for that.
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To further the discussion of whether Brown is considered a better prospect than Ingram, there is this chart from ESPN regarding how the top pick isn't always the best player:
No. 1 picks vs. best player in the draft
No. 1 Picks
YEAR NO. 1 BEST? CONTENDERS
2017 M. Fultz No J. Tatum, D. Mitchell
2016 B. Simmons Yes J. Brown
2015 K. Towns Maybe K. Porzingis
2014 A. Wiggins No J. Embiid, N. Jokic, C. Capela
2013 A. Bennett No Giannis, R. Gobert, V. Oladipo
2012 A. Davis Yes D. Lillard, D. Green, B. Beal
2011 K. Irving Maybe K. Leonard
2010 J. Wall Maybe D. Cousins, P. George
2009 B. Griffin No S. Curry, J. Harden
2008 D. Rose No R. Westbrook, K. Love
2007 G. Oden No K. Durant
2006 A. Bargnani No L. Aldridge, P. Millsap, K. Lowry
2005 A. Bogut No C. Paul
2004 D. Howard Yes A. Iguodala, L. Deng
2003 L. James Yes D. Wade, C. Bosh., C. Anthony
2002 Y. Ming Maybe Amar'e Stoudemire
2001 K. Brown No P. Gasol, T. Parker
2000 K. Martin No M. Redd
1999 E. Brand Maybe S. Marion, M. Ginobili
1998 M. Olowokandi No D. Nowitzki
1997 T. Duncan Yes T. McGrady, C. Billups
1996 A. Iverson No K. Bryant
1995 J. Smith No K. Garnett
1994 G. Robinson No J. Kidd
1993 C. Webber Maybe P. Hardaway
1992 S. O'Neal Yes A. Mourning
1991 L. Johnson No D. Mutombo
1990 D. Coleman No G. Payton
1989 P. Ellison No S. Kemp, G. Rice, T. Hardaway
1988 D. Manning No H. Hawkins, A. Mason, M. Richmond
So Givony and others there think the only player who could be a contender for best player in the 2016 besides Simmons is Brown