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Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: Phantom255x on May 18, 2018, 07:22:55 PM

Title: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Phantom255x on May 18, 2018, 07:22:55 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2776785-karl-anthony-towns-timberwolves-reportedly-not-in-a-good-place-internally?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-national

Karl-Anthony Towns, Timberwolves Reportedly 'Not in a Good Place Internally'

Quote
Karl-Anthony Towns' relationship with the Minnesota Timberwolves has reportedly grown icy.

Appearing on Friday's episode of The Lowe Post, ESPN.com's Zach Lowe said Towns and the Timberwolves are "not in a good place internally."

ESPN.com's Brian Windhorst, who joined Lowe for a lengthy conversation, later posited it would not be unheard of if Towns' name eventually surfaced in trade discussions.

"I don't think Anthony Davis is going anywhere any time soon," Windhorst said. "But Karl Towns...now that might be a different story."

Still, it's important to note there are no indications to this point that Towns could be on the move in the near future. Rather, this is informed speculation from a pair of league insiders who are looped in on fault lines that have surfaced within the organization. 

While the Timberwolves finished last season 47-35 and booked the franchise's first playoff spot since 2004, it wasn't all pretty.

Not only did Towns reportedly grow disgruntled, but 1500 ESPN's Darren Wolfson said in March that Andrew Wiggins "whispered to teammates" that he was unhappy because he had become the Timberwolves' third option behind Towns and Jimmy Butler.

That said, Wiggins' usage rate (23.4) clocked in ahead of Towns' (22.9) and just behind Butler's (24.9) as he averaged 17.7 points per game on 43.8 percent shooting from the field, including 33.1 percent on three-pointers.

Barring a shakeup this summer, the Timberwolves figure to run it back next season with the same core pieces since they already have $110 million in guaranteed salaries on their balance sheet for the 2018-19 campaign.


QUICK DANNY! NADER + A 2020 2ND ROUNDER FOR KAT!!!  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Anyways, this is a pretty interesting development. I don't think KAT actually gets traded, but there might be some tension in Minnesota regardless. As absurd as it sounds considering it is a LOADED Western Conference... you kind of feel Minnesota underachieved a bit, especially given the expectations after the Butler trade.

Either way, I don't think Boston makes an offer. What teams may be interested though *if* the Wolves do take trade calls? Lakers? Spurs?
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on May 18, 2018, 07:32:53 PM
It'd be aweso.e to have a star in the mid to low 20s in usage.  We have too much top end talent for 1 guy to be above a 30
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: CelticsElite on May 18, 2018, 07:41:46 PM
If the guy played even average defense Iíd be highly interested
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Phantom255x on May 18, 2018, 07:43:39 PM
If the guy played even average defense Iíd be highly interested

Yeah, and during the Rockets series, he honestly played "soft" in like 4 of the 5 games. He underwhelmed that series.

What makes it a little interesting is that, unlike Davis, matching salaries is not an issue at all (he's still under rookie contract).

But yeah obviously MIN will ask for a ton, which is why I assume Ainge just stares at the rumor but doesn't really make an offer (doesn't think it's worth it).

I mean, I'm hearing some Suns and Kings fans argue that they should trade their #1 or #2 for him. Yeah we ain't beating those kind of offers  :P
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: sdceltsfan on May 18, 2018, 07:44:28 PM
Smart S&T, Morris, SAC pick, Boston 2018, LAC pick for KAT
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Phantom255x on May 18, 2018, 07:47:31 PM
Smart S&T, Morris, SAC pick, Boston 2018, LAC pick for KAT

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/10EPwHlsBhDKDu/200.gif)
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: coco on May 18, 2018, 07:50:13 PM
or we can Baynes for a quarter of the price.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: designmao on May 18, 2018, 07:50:19 PM
Phoenix's 1st pick for KAT. Who says no?
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Who on May 18, 2018, 07:52:24 PM
Team would probably be happier if Wiggins was removed. Take his shot attempts away and Towns would have a bigger role. Replace Wiggins with someone who is more capable of effecting games outside of their own scoring ability.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Green-18 on May 18, 2018, 07:54:47 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2776785-karl-anthony-towns-timberwolves-reportedly-not-in-a-good-place-internally?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-national

Karl-Anthony Towns, Timberwolves Reportedly 'Not in a Good Place Internally'

Quote
Karl-Anthony Towns' relationship with the Minnesota Timberwolves has reportedly grown icy.

Appearing on Friday's episode of The Lowe Post, ESPN.com's Zach Lowe said Towns and the Timberwolves are "not in a good place internally."

ESPN.com's Brian Windhorst, who joined Lowe for a lengthy conversation, later posited it would not be unheard of if Towns' name eventually surfaced in trade discussions.

"I don't think Anthony Davis is going anywhere any time soon," Windhorst said. "But Karl Towns...now that might be a different story."

Still, it's important to note there are no indications to this point that Towns could be on the move in the near future. Rather, this is informed speculation from a pair of league insiders who are looped in on fault lines that have surfaced within the organization. 

While the Timberwolves finished last season 47-35 and booked the franchise's first playoff spot since 2004, it wasn't all pretty.

Not only did Towns reportedly grow disgruntled, but 1500 ESPN's Darren Wolfson said in March that Andrew Wiggins "whispered to teammates" that he was unhappy because he had become the Timberwolves' third option behind Towns and Jimmy Butler.

That said, Wiggins' usage rate (23.4) clocked in ahead of Towns' (22.9) and just behind Butler's (24.9) as he averaged 17.7 points per game on 43.8 percent shooting from the field, including 33.1 percent on three-pointers.

Barring a shakeup this summer, the Timberwolves figure to run it back next season with the same core pieces since they already have $110 million in guaranteed salaries on their balance sheet for the 2018-19 campaign.


QUICK DANNY! NADER + A 2020 2ND ROUNDER FOR KAT!!!  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Anyways, this is a pretty interesting development. I don't think KAT actually gets traded, but there might be some tension in Minnesota regardless. As absurd as it sounds considering it is a LOADED Western Conference... you kind of feel Minnesota underachieved a bit, especially given the expectations after the Butler trade.

Either way, I don't think Boston makes an offer. What teams may be interested though *if* the Wolves do take trade calls? Lakers? Spurs?

As an NBA fan I hate these types of stories.  I prefer that young superstars try to build something with the teams that drafted them.  It sounds like Wiggins has been an issue for a while now.  He's delusional to think that he should be anything higher than a "3rd option" in Minnesota.  KAT has improved his efficiency every season while Wiggins has remained stuck in mediocrity. 

Towns needs to become a better defender but I'd like to see Towns and Butler have another season together.  Wiggins should be the odd man out.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: byennie on May 18, 2018, 07:59:45 PM
In a heartbeat you make a major offer for Towns.

Would I center a franchise around him from scratch? Yeah maybe some question marks. But adding him to this team? All day every day.

We're talking about a guy who's team won 47 games and was +13 points better when he was on the court (per 100).

He shot 55/42/86 as a center. His offensive/ defensive ratings were 127/107.

He makes under $7M.

He's 22 years old.

The problem in MIN is Wiggins, hands down, not Towns.

The dilemma is that they would clearly want Brown or Tatum, and logically with Hayward coming back it would balance the roster to give in. But Boston isn't trading either of those guys.

SAC19, MEM19, LAC19, BOS18, Rozier, Baynes (salary) would be a homerun for us IMO.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Beat LA on May 18, 2018, 08:00:28 PM
If the guy played even average defense Iíd be highly interested

Yeah, and during the Rockets series, he honestly played "soft" in like 4 of the 5 games. He underwhelmed that series.

I couldn't agree more. Quick, let's steal Justin Patton while they're squabbling ;D. Lol at Thibs, btw.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Phantom255x on May 18, 2018, 08:03:33 PM
Team would probably be happier if Wiggins was removed. Take his shot attempts away and Towns would have a bigger role. Replace Wiggins with someone who is more capable of effecting games outside of their own scoring ability.

Yeah, Wiggins seems to be the problem there.

I heard someone suggest Minnesota should trade him back to Cleveland in return for Love  :laugh:

Boy that would be something.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: CelticsElite on May 18, 2018, 08:18:37 PM
In a heartbeat you make a major offer for Towns.

Would I center a franchise around him from scratch? Yeah maybe some question marks. But adding him to this team? All day every day.

We're talking about a guy who's team won 47 games and was +13 points better when he was on the court (per 100).

He shot 55/42/86 as a center. His offensive/ defensive ratings were 127/107.

He makes under $7M.

He's 22 years old.

The problem in MIN is Wiggins, hands down, not Towns.

The dilemma is that they would clearly want Brown or Tatum, and logically with Hayward coming back it would balance the roster to give in. But Boston isn't trading either of those guys.

SAC19, MEM19, LAC19, BOS18, Rozier, Baynes (salary) would be a homerun for us IMO.
do you just give them kyrie  and a pick? To make it simpler on both sides?
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: bogg on May 18, 2018, 08:21:22 PM
Oof. Towns is good, but he needs to learn how to actually play. The money's easy to match, but he's not going to want to spend a year or two as Horford's backup while reprogramming his game, and Al's basically the exact guy you'd want to keep around to teach Towns winning plays over piling up stats. It's tough to come up with a good trade though - Rozier and picks doesn't seem like it'd be enough for Minnesota, and as crazy as it feels to say this after this playoff run I don't see how can turn around and trade either of Brown or Tatum for a big that doesn't defend. On the other end of the spectrum there's Kyrie and a contract for Towns and Teague, but I definitely don't want to pay Teague $19 million for the next two seasons and it would seriously hamper your ability to pay Towns - I also don't really want to pay (possibly more than) half the cap for both Horford and Towns in the first year of KATs deal.

That's a tough one, but I'd love to see what Stevens could do with him.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Smartacus on May 18, 2018, 08:31:34 PM
In a heartbeat you make a major offer for Towns.

Would I center a franchise around him from scratch? Yeah maybe some question marks. But adding him to this team? All day every day.

We're talking about a guy who's team won 47 games and was +13 points better when he was on the court (per 100).

He shot 55/42/86 as a center. His offensive/ defensive ratings were 127/107.

He makes under $7M.

He's 22 years old.

The problem in MIN is Wiggins, hands down, not Towns.

The dilemma is that they would clearly want Brown or Tatum, and logically with Hayward coming back it would balance the roster to give in. But Boston isn't trading either of those guys.

SAC19, MEM19, LAC19, BOS18, Rozier, Baynes (salary) would be a homerun for us IMO.

TP. Anything not nailed down for Towns is a no brainer.

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet is the Dominican connection. IIRC Towns has the utmost respect for Horford and if you think about it their game compliment each other immensely. Horford as the unselfish, defensive minded facilitator and Towns as the efficient volume scorer.

If anyone could convince KAT to clamp down and become a passable defender it probably Horford.

It would probably take Tatum since I don't see Minny wanting Jaylen to pair with Butler/Wiggins but like byennie mentions in terms of roster balance Towns/Hayward is probably better than Tatum/Hayward.

Love this team as presently constructed but adding Karl Anthony Towns to our system could be a dynasty move in the vein of Durant to GSW.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: sdceltsfan on May 18, 2018, 08:32:28 PM
Smart S&T, Morris, SAC pick, Boston 2018, LAC pick for KAT

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/10EPwHlsBhDKDu/200.gif)

Lol, I can't decide if this Steven A gif is a reaction indicating that this is a huge overpay, or that you think Minnesota immediately hangs up the phone...

Because I'm not quite understanding how you don't see how much better of a team this makes us?

Morris is essentially expendable with Hayward and Theiss coming back.
Smart will be a loss, but between Irving/Rozier/Brown/Smart/Larkin, is there really enough minutes to go around for all these guards?

Losing the picks suck, but what kind of player will we find next summer that is better than KAT with the Kings pick? The answer is zero. The Boston 2018 is likely traded for contract/minutes purposes anyway. And the LAC pick is a mid-lottery at best?

We are trading Smart, one great pick, and expendable/mid-quality parts for a dominant starting Center

Irving/Rozier/Larkin
Brown/Rozier
Hayward/Tatum/Semi/Yabu
Horford/Tatum/Theiss
KAT/Horford

Baynes walks, Nader/Allen/Bird ride the bench (and Yabu). Sign another vet minimum big. That is the most insanely talented and versatile 10-man rotation in the league.

Come playoff time, you have an 8-9 man rotation taking most of Larkins/Semi's minutes away.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: nickagneta on May 18, 2018, 08:34:26 PM
As was stated, the solution is keeping Towns and trading Wiggins. That being said, Towns might want to start learning how to play defense before complaining about his offensive usage.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: nickagneta on May 18, 2018, 09:05:54 PM
It'd be aweso.e to have a star in the mid to low 20s in usage.  We have too much top end talent for 1 guy to be above a 30
Its actually extremely normal for a championship team to have a player with a usage% over 30% and 3 players over 27% usage %.  Just check recent champions for proof.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: gouki88 on May 18, 2018, 09:11:44 PM
It'd be aweso.e to have a star in the mid to low 20s in usage.  We have too much top end talent for 1 guy to be above a 30
Its actually extremely normal for a championship team to have a player with a usage% over 30% and 3 players over 27% usage %.  Just check recent champions for proof.
2 guys in the 30's and one in the mid 20's has been working pretty well for GSW
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on May 18, 2018, 09:13:03 PM
It'd be aweso.e to have a star in the mid to low 20s in usage.  We have too much top end talent for 1 guy to be above a 30
Its actually extremely normal for a championship team to have a player with a usage% over 30% and 3 players over 27% usage %.  Just check recent champions for proof.

GS? I cant look it up, but I imagine they play at a much faster pace.  Our pace slowed considerably this season. That could also reflect shots vs time of possession, right? GS does my have anyone pounding the ball
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: CelticsQuestFor18 on May 18, 2018, 09:13:27 PM
Sorry wrong thread.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: CelticsQuestFor18 on May 18, 2018, 09:16:19 PM
In a heartbeat you make a major offer for Towns.

Would I center a franchise around him from scratch? Yeah maybe some question marks. But adding him to this team? All day every day.

We're talking about a guy who's team won 47 games and was +13 points better when he was on the court (per 100).

He shot 55/42/86 as a center. His offensive/ defensive ratings were 127/107.

He makes under $7M.

He's 22 years old.

The problem in MIN is Wiggins, hands down, not Towns.

The dilemma is that they would clearly want Brown or Tatum, and logically with Hayward coming back it would balance the roster to give in. But Boston isn't trading either of those guys.

SAC19, MEM19, LAC19, BOS18, Rozier, Baynes (salary) would be a homerun for us IMO.

TP. Anything not nailed down for Towns is a no brainer.

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet is the Dominican connection. IIRC Towns has the utmost respect for Horford and if you think about it their game compliment each other immensely. Horford as the unselfish, defensive minded facilitator and Towns as the efficient volume scorer.

If anyone could convince KAT to clamp down and become a passable defender it probably Horford.

It would probably take Tatum since I don't see Minny wanting Jaylen to pair with Butler/Wiggins but like byennie mentions in terms of roster balance Towns/Hayward is probably better than Tatum/Hayward.

Love this team as presently constructed but adding Karl Anthony Towns to our system could be a dynasty move in the vein of Durant to GSW.

Eh I'd much rather keep Tatum than trade him in a package for Towns.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: byennie on May 18, 2018, 09:16:32 PM
As was stated, the solution is keeping Towns and trading Wiggins. That being said, Towns might want to start learning how to play defense before complaining about his offensive usage.

Sure, but they don't necessarily get to make that choice if Towns wants out and nobody wants Wiggins. The key variable here is Towns forcing his way out.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: vjcsmoke on May 18, 2018, 09:18:50 PM
It's a huge underpay.  Twolves aren't going to accept just Smart, Morris and picks.

We're going to have to offer up someone of equivalent talent whether it's Brown, Tatum, Hayward, or Kyrie.  I don't think we will offer Kyrie because he's the guy here, and the salaries wouldn't match, and we don't want their bad salaries.

So it's probably going to be some package centered on those first 3 guys plus a lot of draft picks and possibly Terry Rozier as well.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y72fqp3l

Smart S&T, Morris, SAC pick, Boston 2018, LAC pick for KAT
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Phantom255x on May 18, 2018, 09:23:42 PM
Smart S&T, Morris, SAC pick, Boston 2018, LAC pick for KAT

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/10EPwHlsBhDKDu/200.gif)

Lol, I can't decide if this Steven A gif is a reaction indicating that this is a huge overpay, or that you think Minnesota immediately hangs up the phone...

Because I'm not quite understanding how you don't see how much better of a team this makes us?

Morris is essentially expendable with Hayward and Theiss coming back.
Smart will be a loss, but between Irving/Rozier/Brown/Smart/Larkin, is there really enough minutes to go around for all these guards?

Losing the picks suck, but what kind of player will we find next summer that is better than KAT with the Kings pick? The answer is zero. The Boston 2018 is likely traded for contract/minutes purposes anyway. And the LAC pick is a mid-lottery at best?

We are trading Smart, one great pick, and expendable/mid-quality parts for a dominant starting Center

Irving/Rozier/Larkin
Brown/Rozier
Hayward/Tatum/Semi/Yabu
Horford/Tatum/Theiss
KAT/Horford

Baynes walks, Nader/Allen/Bird ride the bench (and Yabu). Sign another vet minimum big. That is the most insanely talented and versatile 10-man rotation in the league.

Come playoff time, you have an 8-9 man rotation taking most of Larkins/Semi's minutes away.

I believe it is an overpay on our part, BUT I realize I made a bit of a mistake. I thought you included the Grizzlies Pick in the package, but it's actually the Clippers Pick. My bad.

You make good points, but I'm still really skeptical about KAT's defense and "motor". He looked really underwhelming in the playoffs and many folks considered him "soft" in that series.

Also, I think Ainge does his best to keep Smart, who is currently the heart and soul of this C's team, and I'm not sure MIN wants Smart because they already got a "gritty bulldog" in Jimmy Butler. Rozier would have a more unique skillset that MIN could utilize. That said, they already have Teague and his 19M/Year contract to deal with lol.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Jvalin on May 18, 2018, 09:42:10 PM
As was stated, the solution is keeping Towns and trading Wiggins. That being said, Towns might want to start learning how to play defense before complaining about his offensive usage.

Sure, but they don't necessarily get to make that choice if Towns wants out and nobody wants Wiggins. The key variable here is Towns forcing his way out.
Towns cannot take control of his future unless he is willing to play for the qualifying offer in 2019/20. Chances are, he won't do that. I mean, at the end of the day no matter how frustrated he may be, he would have to leave a ton of money on the table.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: byennie on May 18, 2018, 09:48:08 PM
As was stated, the solution is keeping Towns and trading Wiggins. That being said, Towns might want to start learning how to play defense before complaining about his offensive usage.

Sure, but they don't necessarily get to make that choice if Towns wants out and nobody wants Wiggins. The key variable here is Towns forcing his way out.
Towns cannot take conrol of his future unless he is willing to play for the qualifying offer in 2019/20.

Players "force" their way out despite contractual obligations all the time. Teams have little leverage once a player makes his wishes known. Same way a player kills his own trade value by saying he won't re-sign in certain places etc.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: nickagneta on May 18, 2018, 09:51:12 PM
It'd be aweso.e to have a star in the mid to low 20s in usage.  We have too much top end talent for 1 guy to be above a 30
Its actually extremely normal for a championship team to have a player with a usage% over 30% and 3 players over 27% usage %.  Just check recent champions for proof.

GS? I cant look it up, but I imagine they play at a much faster pace.  Our pace slowed considerably this season. That could also reflect shots vs time of possession, right? GS does my have anyone pounding the ball
Pretty sure pace has anything to do with usage% so not seeing your point. Knowing your hatred of Kyrie I think this is your way of saying you don't think Kyrie having a usage % over 30% is good for this team but look at last year's GSW championship.

Curry 30.1% usage
Durant 27.8% usage
Thompson 26.1% usage

Now this year's Warriors

Curry 31% usage
Durant 30.4% usage
Thompson 23.7% usage

The Cavs during their championship year

Lebron 31.4% usage
Irving 29.5% usage
Love 23.4% usage

Its just normal to have a couple of stars with high usage(around 30 or more) and then another one or two with good usage (20-28%).

I expect Kyrie to lead this team in usage at over 30% next year and then could see 3 more players with 20-29% usage producing Kyrie being the leading scorer with 2-3(thinking 3)other guys scoring in the 15-21 point per game area.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Csfan1984 on May 18, 2018, 09:52:06 PM
I think if you wanted Towns it would mean losing pick 27, Horford, Rozier and Morris then take on Teague and Aldrich.

Wolves roll with= Rozier, Butler, Wiggins, Morris, Horford.
First bench three Crawford, Gibson, Deng.

C's then have= Irving, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, KAT
With Teague, Semi, and Theis as first three guys off the bench.

Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: ETNCeltics on May 18, 2018, 09:53:17 PM
Too bad for him. He's not Kyrie Irving with time running out on his deal and soon to be an unrestricted free agent. Minnesota has all the leverage, if they think he's worth it.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: hwangjini_1 on May 18, 2018, 09:56:40 PM
Smart S&T, Morris, SAC pick, Boston 2018, LAC pick for KAT
Oh goody! Another cb poo poo platter for a star player.  ;D
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Jvalin on May 18, 2018, 09:59:27 PM
As was stated, the solution is keeping Towns and trading Wiggins. That being said, Towns might want to start learning how to play defense before complaining about his offensive usage.

Sure, but they don't necessarily get to make that choice if Towns wants out and nobody wants Wiggins. The key variable here is Towns forcing his way out.
Towns cannot take conrol of his future unless he is willing to play for the qualifying offer in 2019/20.

Players "force" their way out despite contractual obligations all the time. Teams have little leverage once a player makes his wishes known. Same way a player kills his own trade value by saying he won't re-sign in certain places etc.
I hear what you're saying, but KAT is still on the rookie scale. He is under team control for the foreseeable future. It's not like he is hitting unrestricted free agency in a couple of years. At the end of the day, the Wolves hold all the cards regarding his future.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: SHAQATTACK on May 18, 2018, 10:08:06 PM
Sorry ,    no.....he ll go Lakers 

Dream Team

A. Davis
Irvin
Tatum
Brown
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: byennie on May 18, 2018, 10:10:42 PM
As was stated, the solution is keeping Towns and trading Wiggins. That being said, Towns might want to start learning how to play defense before complaining about his offensive usage.

Sure, but they don't necessarily get to make that choice if Towns wants out and nobody wants Wiggins. The key variable here is Towns forcing his way out.
Towns cannot take conrol of his future unless he is willing to play for the qualifying offer in 2019/20.

Players "force" their way out despite contractual obligations all the time. Teams have little leverage once a player makes his wishes known. Same way a player kills his own trade value by saying he won't re-sign in certain places etc.
I hear what you're saying, but KAT is still on the rookie scale. He is under team control for the foreseeable future. It's not like he is hitting unrestricted free agency in a couple of years. At the end of the day, the Wolves hold all the cards regarding his future.

He'll be an UFA in exactly two years, actually. The moment Towns accepts the qualifying offer (would happen after next season), the Wolves are totally screwed.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: celticinorlando on May 18, 2018, 10:48:33 PM
 No way in hell do I give up Tatum and or Brown for him.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: byennie on May 18, 2018, 10:56:19 PM
No way in hell do I give up Tatum and or Brown for him.

As a fan, I'm with you... I'd much rather roll with our guys. But from a basketball standpoint, you're talking about a guy who put up 22/12 with 55/42/86 splits. If he did that in Boston, he'd be every bit as untouchable as those two guys. His defense is a little worse than hoped, but let's not get it twisted, he's still twice the defender that IT or Kyrie has been and would be our best offensive player on day 1.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on May 18, 2018, 11:01:06 PM
No way in hell do I give up Tatum and or Brown for him.

It's hard not to think about it though.

This guy is already an All-Star at age 22, he's still on his rookie deal, and whatever scoring Brown or Tatum provides, he can easily replace. Now defense is the issue, but I think he can get to improve defensively with this team, with the coaching, and the players that surrounds him.

Yeah, it's great to stay with our guys, but this lineup is oh so sweet too.

Irving - Hayward - Brown/Tatum - Horford - Towns
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Ogaju on May 18, 2018, 11:13:55 PM
I think if you wanted Towns it would mean losing pick 27, Horford, Rozier and Morris then take on Teague and Aldrich.

Wolves roll with= Rozier, Butler, Wiggins, Morris, Horford.
First bench three Crawford, Gibson, Deng.

C's then have= Irving, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, KAT
With Teague, Semi, and Theis as first three guys off the bench.

Are you serious?
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Fafnir on May 18, 2018, 11:19:54 PM
Team would probably be happier if Wiggins was removed. Take his shot attempts away and Towns would have a bigger role. Replace Wiggins with someone who is more capable of effecting games outside of their own scoring ability.
If they had Brown at the wing instead of Wiggins that whole team would work so much better. Someone who's more of a weapon from 3 and can impact the game with more than just bad shot attempts.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Phantom255x on May 19, 2018, 12:17:43 AM
I think if you wanted Towns it would mean losing pick 27, Horford, Rozier and Morris then take on Teague and Aldrich.

Wolves roll with= Rozier, Butler, Wiggins, Morris, Horford.
First bench three Crawford, Gibson, Deng.

C's then have= Irving, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, KAT
With Teague, Semi, and Theis as first three guys off the bench.

Huh??

I mean, add in 2019 SAC Pick and that's the kind of trade idea most have thrown for Anthony Davis  :P

KAT is NOWHERE near his level right now.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Somebody on May 19, 2018, 12:21:40 AM
BYE KYRIE, KAT TO BOSTOOOOOOOON
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Beat LA on May 19, 2018, 12:37:26 AM
BYE KYRIE, KAT Justin Patton TO BOSTOOOOOOOON

Fixed ;D.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: slightly biased bias fan on May 19, 2018, 12:50:25 AM
BYE KYRIE, KAT TO BOSTOOOOOOOON

Irving holds all the cards still as his contract is up end of next season so he can nix any trade by saying he won't re-sign there. He already said no to the Suns so I'm not sure he would want to go to another small market team with obvious internal issues to boot.

I trust the Boston Front Office but I personally wouldn't trade for Towns as the package needed would gut this team and bring back too much of a work in progress and poor defensive instincts that Ainge & Stevens have never gravitated towards.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Somebody on May 19, 2018, 12:55:49 AM
BYE KYRIE, KAT Justin Patton TO BOSTOOOOOOOON

Fixed ;D.
:D wouldn't mind that either 🤣
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Somebody on May 19, 2018, 12:56:37 AM
BYE KYRIE, KAT TO BOSTOOOOOOOON

Irving holds all the cards still as his contract is up end of next season so he can nix any trade by saying he won't re-sign there. He already said no to the Suns so I'm not sure he would want to go to another small market team with obvious internal issues to boot.

I trust the Boston Front Office but I personally wouldn't trade Towns as the package needed would gut this team and bring back too much of a work in progress and poor defensive instincts that Ainge & Stevens have never gravitated towards.
Sure. I was just saying if Kyrie could get KAT straight up I'd pack Kyrie's bags for him.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: playdream on May 19, 2018, 01:53:58 AM
KYRIE for Davis yes , Towns hell No
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: gouki88 on May 19, 2018, 01:57:34 AM
KYRIE for Davis yes , Towns hell No
Agree
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Somebody on May 19, 2018, 02:01:57 AM
KYRIE for Davis yes , Towns hell No
:-\ Towns is great, don't forget that he's 3 years younger than Davis. I would trade Kyrie in a heartbeat for him.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: gouki88 on May 19, 2018, 02:10:33 AM
KYRIE for Davis yes , Towns hell No
:-\ Towns is great, don't forget that he's 3 years younger than Davis. I would trade Kyrie in a heartbeat for him.
Yeah, but heís a really really soft defender. That might change under a coach like Brad, but Iím not sure.

A real plus of KAT is his durability. 3 seasons of 82 games
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Somebody on May 19, 2018, 03:01:51 AM
KYRIE for Davis yes , Towns hell No
:-\ Towns is great, don't forget that he's 3 years younger than Davis. I would trade Kyrie in a heartbeat for him.
Yeah, but he’s a really really soft defender. That might change under a coach like Brad, but I’m not sure.

A real plus of KAT is his durability. 3 seasons of 82 games
I believe he'll improve a lot under Brad, also remember Horford will be mentoring him. And the second point really bolsters what I said lol, we need stars like that, not guys like Kyrie who get injured quite a bit (although he's ****ing excellent and I love how he did in Boston, expletive there was necessary to describe his incredible quality).
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: CelticsElite on May 19, 2018, 03:03:18 AM
KYRIE for Davis yes , Towns hell No
:-\ Towns is great, don't forget that he's 3 years younger than Davis. I would trade Kyrie in a heartbeat for him.
Yeah, but heís a really really soft defender. That might change under a coach like Brad, but Iím not sure.

A real plus of KAT is his durability. 3 seasons of 82 games
thibs was the defensive coach for boston and KAT current coach. If the guy who made KG the DPOY can't fix KAT. i'm not sure anyone can
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Humble G on May 19, 2018, 06:54:07 AM
3 way trade with orlando? No picks involved... but basically we trade kyrie for Kat and shelvin mack. Twolves get kyrie and vucevic. Orlando gets teague

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yb4qkess

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Smartacus on May 19, 2018, 06:54:29 AM
KYRIE for Davis yes , Towns hell No
:-\ Towns is great, don't forget that he's 3 years younger than Davis. I would trade Kyrie in a heartbeat for him.
Yeah, but heís a really really soft defender. That might change under a coach like Brad, but Iím not sure.

A real plus of KAT is his durability. 3 seasons of 82 games
thibs was the defensive coach for boston and KAT current coach. If the guy who made KG the DPOY can't fix KAT. i'm not sure anyone can

Different styles, different mentalities. Thibs is a great coach but his mentality and approach isn't going to work for everyone. Town's demeanor is a much better fit with Stevens and Horford than Thibs and KG.

Towns doesn't have to become lock down, just enough so that he's not a liability. I bet our current culture could bring that out of him.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Vermont Green on May 19, 2018, 09:05:16 AM
KA Towns is exactly the type of player that the Celtics would reach to add in my opinion.  A young big with huge.  What more can you ask.  He could easily start alongside Horford and then with 3 of Irving, Brown, Hayward, Tatum (assuming one of them get traded), that is a great young team.

The problem is that I don't think the Celtics would trade either Irving or Hayward so that would mean giving up either Brown or Tatum.  Also, Minny already has Butler and Wiggins so don't really have a slot for either of them.  I PG makes the most sense for them but I don't see Irving going there.

Bottom line, nice thought but can't see it matching up.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Sophomore on May 19, 2018, 10:00:10 AM
KA Towns is exactly the type of player that the Celtics would reach to add in my opinion.  A young big with huge.  What more can you ask.  He could easily start alongside Horford and then with 3 of Irving, Brown, Hayward, Tatum (assuming one of them get traded), that is a great young team.

The problem is that I don't think the Celtics would trade either Irving or Hayward so that would mean giving up either Brown or Tatum.  Also, Minny already has Butler and Wiggins so don't really have a slot for either of them.  I PG makes the most sense for them but I don't see Irving going there.

Bottom line, nice thought but can't see it matching up.

Itís crazy how many options there are. From a contracts perspective I think Irving for Towns makes the most sense for us. Donít know if it works for Minnie. But then itís just crazy. So much talent. How do you play all the guys who should play?

Towns/Horford/Hayward/Brown/Smart to close games? We are leaving out Tatum?? Who else, tho? Horford? Heís been enormous for us closing out games. Towns? Maybe - itís a wing-based league and our wings are awfully good. These are a rich manís problems, but wow.

Towns is almost too good for this moment of our timeline. Iíd rather get a Jaren Jackson on a rookie deal, sending out, say, Rozier, the Cs 2018 1st, and the 2019 Sacto pick. Bring him along to take over when itís time. Someone clearly second banana to Al now but who can grow into leadership in a few years.

Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Sophomore on May 19, 2018, 10:04:20 AM
KYRIE for Davis yes , Towns hell No
:-\ Towns is great, don't forget that he's 3 years younger than Davis. I would trade Kyrie in a heartbeat for him.
Yeah, but heís a really really soft defender. That might change under a coach like Brad, but Iím not sure.

A real plus of KAT is his durability. 3 seasons of 82 games

His defense/mental toughness is what I wonder about. That is what makes this team unique and I think it depends on team culture.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Csfan1984 on May 19, 2018, 11:26:53 AM
I think if you wanted Towns it would mean losing pick 27, Horford, Rozier and Morris then take on Teague and Aldrich.

Wolves roll with= Rozier, Butler, Wiggins, Morris, Horford.
First bench three Crawford, Gibson, Deng.

C's then have= Irving, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, KAT
With Teague, Semi, and Theis as first three guys off the bench.

Are you serious?
Yes I am. Because I only see them moving Towns if they get more guys that help them win now and unload a bad contract. Thibs would love those guys coming in.

What is the point of going for a deal where the best returning piece is a high pick? KAT is hitting on a high pick already.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: keevsnick on May 19, 2018, 12:06:31 PM
I think if you wanted Towns it would mean losing pick 27, Horford, Rozier and Morris then take on Teague and Aldrich.

Wolves roll with= Rozier, Butler, Wiggins, Morris, Horford.
First bench three Crawford, Gibson, Deng.

C's then have= Irving, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, KAT
With Teague, Semi, and Theis as first three guys off the bench.

Are you serious?
Yes I am. Because I only see them moving Towns if they get more guys that help them win now and unload a bad contract. Thibs would love those guys coming in.

What is the point of going for a deal where the best returning piece is a high pick? KAT is hitting on a high pick already.

I think the wolves wanting win now pieces is reasonable, but for a talent of KAT's level they will wnat a high pick as well. So that package, plus the SAC19 pick. Still probably not enough.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Csfan1984 on May 19, 2018, 12:18:32 PM
I think if you wanted Towns it would mean losing pick 27, Horford, Rozier and Morris then take on Teague and Aldrich.

Wolves roll with= Rozier, Butler, Wiggins, Morris, Horford.
First bench three Crawford, Gibson, Deng.

C's then have= Irving, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, KAT
With Teague, Semi, and Theis as first three guys off the bench.

Are you serious?
Yes I am. Because I only see them moving Towns if they get more guys that help them win now and unload a bad contract. Thibs would love those guys coming in.

What is the point of going for a deal where the best returning piece is a high pick? KAT is hitting on a high pick already.

I think the wolves wanting win now pieces is reasonable, but for a talent of KAT's level they will wnat a high pick as well. So that package, plus the SAC19 pick. Still probably not enough.
If you threw in the SAC 19 then no way would I then accept the bad contract of Teague and Aldrich. It's a balance.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: LarBrd33 on May 19, 2018, 12:53:52 PM
Jimmy butler and kyrie are buddies.  Iím still a little concerned kyrie will bail after next season to go join a team with butler.

I guess that can give you a seed for a Kyrie/Towns swap

Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: gouki88 on May 19, 2018, 01:09:12 PM
Jimmy butler and kyrie are buddies.  Iím still a little concerned kyrie will bail after next season to go join a team with butler.

I guess that can give you a seed for a Kyrie/Towns swap
Why would he leave Boston for Minnesota??

Unless Butler and Kyrie both opt out to team-up Miami style somewhere
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Phantom255x on May 19, 2018, 01:12:59 PM
Jimmy butler and kyrie are buddies.  Iím still a little concerned kyrie will bail after next season to go join a team with butler.

I guess that can give you a seed for a Kyrie/Towns swap

He did have Minnesota on his Trade List last June I believe.

That said, I find it hard to believe. There's no path for MIN to even get past Golden State or Houston at the moment, let alone win a championship. I think Kyrie wants to compete for a legit chance at a championship.

If anything, it feels like, while still slim, there's a better chance Butler gets dealt to Kyrie's team than there is Kyrie getting dealt to Butler's  :P
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: A Future of Stevens on May 19, 2018, 01:14:24 PM
Jimmy butler and kyrie are buddies.  Iím still a little concerned kyrie will bail after next season to go join a team with butler.

I guess that can give you a seed for a Kyrie/Towns swap

I'd be hesitant to do it, but I think you would have to at the end of the day. A core that involves KAT/Brown/Tatum/ Hayward is going to be in the hunt for a very long time.

Plus on a selfish note, watching that core compete with the Sixers core of Embiid/Simmons/Fultz(??)/2018 1st 4+ times a year for the next 7 or more years is something every Basketball fan dreams of.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: wiley on May 19, 2018, 01:44:15 PM
Jimmy butler and kyrie are buddies.  Iím still a little concerned kyrie will bail after next season to go join a team with butler.

I guess that can give you a seed for a Kyrie/Towns swap

I'd be hesitant to do it, but I think you would have to at the end of the day. A core that involves KAT/Brown/Tatum/ Hayward is going to be in the hunt for a very long time.

Plus on a selfish note, watching that core compete with the Sixers core of Embiid/Simmons/Fultz(??)/2018 1st 4+ times a year for the next 7 or more years is something every Basketball fan dreams of.

Yes...when you've got a Rozier you've got to do an Irving for Towns swap.  Irving is the better weapon, but Towns is younger and has had less injury trouble..which balances the equation.  Towns is not an ideal defender but that's okay, neither is Irving.  As long as he's a good passer and team player then sign me up for this trade.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Bucketgetter on May 19, 2018, 01:51:26 PM
The only deal that would even make sense would be based around Kyrie. But KAT isn't getting traded anytime soon, and hopefully neither is Kyrie.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Phantom255x on May 19, 2018, 01:58:46 PM
Smh people are actually suggesting we trade Kyrie for Towns??

What's next, once we acquire Towns, Towns for Harden! Then Harden for Davis!  :P
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: gouki88 on May 19, 2018, 02:00:13 PM
Smh people are actually suggesting we trade Kyrie for Towns??

What's next, once we acquire Towns, Towns for Harden! Then Harden for Davis!  :P
Some fans are never satisfied are they
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Birdman on May 19, 2018, 02:03:28 PM
Towns not going anywhere...minny fans would go off
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: chambers on May 19, 2018, 02:16:19 PM
No thanks. Awful defender. Unless he becomes a full time center I'd want no part of him
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: chambers on May 19, 2018, 02:17:18 PM
Jimmy butler and kyrie are buddies.  Iím still a little concerned kyrie will bail after next season to go join a team with butler.

I guess that can give you a seed for a Kyrie/Towns swap

Welcome back!
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: KGs Knee on May 19, 2018, 02:19:14 PM
Yup, let's trade our best player (Kyrie) for an inferior player who plays a position we're already set at, and in the process create a roster imbalance that will force us to not be able to play our 5 best players to either start nor finish games.

Yup, Celtics fans done lost their [dang] minds.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: blink on May 19, 2018, 02:37:39 PM
I just want to see if these 10 guys can win a title.  I am fine with no trades going into next season

Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Horford
Rozier, Smart, Morris, Theis, Baynes
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: mrceltics2013 on May 19, 2018, 02:45:52 PM
Don't see what he would bring to the table. I just watched highlights and all he do is hit tough shots. Those buckets will not always go in. Seems overrated o me.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: jambr380 on May 19, 2018, 02:51:54 PM
I would totally do Kyrie for Towns and I am surprised the majority of Cs fans aren't on board. If you add in Aldrich and a minimum contract like Jones, then the trade is successful on trade machine.

Last year there were many people more enamored by Towns' potential over AD's. While I have always considered AD the ultimate prize, Towns would be an amazing piece to add to this roster and it would allow us to keep Rozier. Personally, I think a future of Towns+Rozier is better than just Kyrie. But I certainly won't complain if *all* we do is re-sign Kyrie to a max.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Bucketgetter on May 19, 2018, 02:54:08 PM
Yup, let's trade our best player (Kyrie) for an inferior player who plays a position we're already set at, and in the process create a roster imbalance that will force us to not be able to play our 5 best players to either start nor finish games.

Yup, Celtics fans done lost their [dang] minds.
Lol you must not be talking about the Celtics. Our guards and wings are way stronger than our bigs. This post is completely backwards, and that's not even up for debate.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Bucketgetter on May 19, 2018, 02:59:29 PM
Don't see what he would bring to the table. I just watched highlights and all he do is hit tough shots. Those buckets will not always go in. Seems overrated o me.
This is quite possibly the worst reasoning I have ever heard for not liking a player. You just watched his highlights, he made tough shots, and that means he isn't good?? LOL. What are highlights suppose to show? Wide open shots? And do you really have to look up highlight for KAT?
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Sketch5 on May 19, 2018, 03:00:27 PM
I rather try to make a move for on of the young Centers in the 4-8 range using Rozier and picks that could use a couple years to develop into a starting C.

If you move Irving for Towns, you then have an issue with the PF/C spot next season with Tatum/Horford/Hayward/Towns.

If you can snag some one like Carter who is a good defender and rebounder, and have him learn under Horford for a couple seasons and then becomes the starting C when Horfords contract is done, would be a better move.

Celtics weakness right now is consistent scoring from one guy, but that changes when Irving and Hayward comes back, and rebounding and rim protection. So getting a center that is defensive minded, rim protects and can hit an eighteen foot jump shot would be ideal to grow up with Brown and Tatum for the second wave of this team.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Sophomore on May 19, 2018, 03:30:39 PM
Smh people are actually suggesting we trade Kyrie for Towns??

What's next, once we acquire Towns, Towns for Harden! Then Harden for Davis!  :P

You left out the critical step: Davis for multiple first round picks over the next ten years. Or maybe we can get picks 1-5 in the 2020 draft.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: KGs Knee on May 19, 2018, 03:34:03 PM
Yup, let's trade our best player (Kyrie) for an inferior player who plays a position we're already set at, and in the process create a roster imbalance that will force us to not be able to play our 5 best players to either start nor finish games.

Yup, Celtics fans done lost their [dang] minds.
Lol you must not be talking about the Celtics. Our guards and wings are way stronger than our bigs. This post is completely backwards, and that's not even up for debate.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong.

Trading Kyrie for KAT would result in our five best players being two bigs and three wings. None of them are primary ball handlers. In order to put a primary ball handler on the court we would have to take one of our five best players off the court.

That is not good roster management any way you slice it.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Sophomore on May 19, 2018, 03:39:23 PM
Yup, let's trade our best player (Kyrie) for an inferior player who plays a position we're already set at, and in the process create a roster imbalance that will force us to not be able to play our 5 best players to either start nor finish games.

Yup, Celtics fans done lost their [dang] minds.
Lol you must not be talking about the Celtics. Our guards and wings are way stronger than our bigs. This post is completely backwards, and that's not even up for debate.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong.

Trading Kyrie for KAT would result in our five best players being two bigs and three wings. None of them are primary ball handlers. In order to put a primary ball handler on the court we would have to take one of our five best players off the court.

That is not good roster management any way you slice it.

Iím with KGsKnees. If we are targeting an acquisition it should be a younger big we can groom as Alís replacement down the road a few years. You might move a wing for KAT, to avoid the problem, but that team has a very different style to what we are succeeding with now, so Iíd be surprised if thatís the play.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Bucketgetter on May 19, 2018, 03:47:01 PM
Yup, let's trade our best player (Kyrie) for an inferior player who plays a position we're already set at, and in the process create a roster imbalance that will force us to not be able to play our 5 best players to either start nor finish games.

Yup, Celtics fans done lost their [dang] minds.
Lol you must not be talking about the Celtics. Our guards and wings are way stronger than our bigs. This post is completely backwards, and that's not even up for debate.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong.

Trading Kyrie for KAT would result in our five best players being two bigs and three wings. None of them are primary ball handlers. In order to put a primary ball handler on the court we would have to take one of our five best players off the court.

That is not good roster management any way you slice it.
Key word being "if" we traded Kyrie. You said we are already set at big. It is our biggest position of need lol. Hayward/Tatum/Brown > Horford/Baynes/Theis. Also, Kyrie/Rozier/Smart > Horford/Baynes/Theis. We already have a roster imbalance, but it won't be fixed by trading Kyrie for Towns. Sorry buddy, but you're wrong.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: KGs Knee on May 19, 2018, 04:09:36 PM
Yup, let's trade our best player (Kyrie) for an inferior player who plays a position we're already set at, and in the process create a roster imbalance that will force us to not be able to play our 5 best players to either start nor finish games.

Yup, Celtics fans done lost their [dang] minds.
Lol you must not be talking about the Celtics. Our guards and wings are way stronger than our bigs. This post is completely backwards, and that's not even up for debate.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong.

Trading Kyrie for KAT would result in our five best players being two bigs and three wings. None of them are primary ball handlers. In order to put a primary ball handler on the court we would have to take one of our five best players off the court.

That is not good roster management any way you slice it.
Key word being "if" we traded Kyrie. You said we are already set at big. It is our biggest position of need lol. Hayward/Tatum/Brown > Horford/Baynes/Theis. Also, Kyrie/Rozier/Smart > Horford/Baynes/Theis. We already have a roster imbalance, but it won't be fixed by trading Kyrie for Towns. Sorry buddy, but you're wrong.

I'm not your buddy, pal. ;)

But seriously, I'm not sure what you're not understanding. You can't have your five best players all be non-primary ball handlers. That's not going to work, period.

We already have an All-Star at C, we don't need another C of that caliber. At least not one who is at that level already. Finding an eventual replacement for Horford is a good idea, but not at the cost of your best player, and not if it compromises your ability to actually put your five best players all on the court at the same time.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on May 19, 2018, 04:26:23 PM
It'd be aweso.e to have a star in the mid to low 20s in usage.  We have too much top end talent for 1 guy to be above a 30
Its actually extremely normal for a championship team to have a player with a usage% over 30% and 3 players over 27% usage %.  Just check recent champions for proof.

GS? I cant look it up, but I imagine they play at a much faster pace.  Our pace slowed considerably this season. That could also reflect shots vs time of possession, right? GS does my have anyone pounding the ball
Pretty sure pace has anything to do with usage% so not seeing your point. Knowing your hatred of Kyrie I think this is your way of saying you don't think Kyrie having a usage % over 30% is good for this team but look at last year's GSW championship.

Curry 30.1% usage
Durant 27.8% usage
Thompson 26.1% usage

Now this year's Warriors

Curry 31% usage
Durant 30.4% usage
Thompson 23.7% usage

The Cavs during their championship year

Lebron 31.4% usage
Irving 29.5% usage
Love 23.4% usage

Its just normal to have a couple of stars with high usage(around 30 or more) and then another one or two with good usage (20-28%).

I expect Kyrie to lead this team in usage at over 30% next year and then could see 3 more players with 20-29% usage producing Kyrie being the leading scorer with 2-3(thinking 3)other guys scoring in the 15-21 point per game area.

Pace does seem to be an important factor here.  If usg is the %age of possessions 'used' by a player, and differences in pace allow some teams to have more possessions than others, then two players with the same usage% could have meaningfully different contributing stats (e.g. higher pace - more FGAs).  GS is averaging 7 more possessions per 48 this postseason.

These Celts also differ from GS in other important ways.  GS's youth grew organically, just as ours have so successfully in these playoffs.  By the time they added KD, they were a vet group knowingly making individual sacrifices to win.  The Celts are in a much different position for 2 reasons.  1. A 20 y/o and 21 y/o showing tremendous growth, potential to be the best player(s) on our championship team, and the ability to carry this group to the Finals now; we need to prioritize their growth above all else.   And 2. An even deeper core of offense e threat.  We have a legitimate 6 guys worthy of that usg in the 20s that you mentioned, and that can only be pared down to 4 (incl an AS in Hayward:still 1 more) after you relegate Rozier to the bench and our all star center to a minimal role, and while still relying on both of them to facilitate the offense at times. 

Kyrie is relevant here in that he is the biggest threat to achieving optimal team play with a focus on individual growth, sustainability, and managing egos.  Maybe Terry gets frustrated and demands a trade, but as of now, all our other guys seem to be high in character and team oriented; in fact, I'd argue that while we may have more talent than some expected, it is our defense and high character as a team that is most responsible for this great playoff run.  But Kyrie has the biggest name, a large and evidently fragile ego, and very questionable character to threaten surgery if a trade demand weren't met.  Our success requires adjustment from him, and based on his past behavior, I dont trust that hes capable of that.  Hopefully I'm wrong, though.  If he can put his ego aside, we could won several chips beginning next season.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: MaxAMillion on May 19, 2018, 05:00:18 PM
I would totally do Kyrie for Towns and I am surprised the majority of Cs fans aren't on board. If you add in Aldrich and a minimum contract like Jones, then the trade is successful on trade machine.

Last year there were many people more enamored by Towns' potential over AD's. While I have always considered AD the ultimate prize, Towns would be an amazing piece to add to this roster and it would allow us to keep Rozier. Personally, I think a future of Towns+Rozier is better than just Kyrie. But I certainly won't complain if *all* we do is re-sign Kyrie to a max.
Completely agree. Towns is younger and healthier. If i thought we could get a healthy Irving going forward then I would say keep him, but Irving has struggled on and off with injuries since college.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: nickagneta on May 19, 2018, 05:12:30 PM
It'd be aweso.e to have a star in the mid to low 20s in usage.  We have too much top end talent for 1 guy to be above a 30
Its actually extremely normal for a championship team to have a player with a usage% over 30% and 3 players over 27% usage %.  Just check recent champions for proof.

GS? I cant look it up, but I imagine they play at a much faster pace.  Our pace slowed considerably this season. That could also reflect shots vs time of possession, right? GS does my have anyone pounding the ball
Pretty sure pace has anything to do with usage% so not seeing your point. Knowing your hatred of Kyrie I think this is your way of saying you don't think Kyrie having a usage % over 30% is good for this team but look at last year's GSW championship.

Curry 30.1% usage
Durant 27.8% usage
Thompson 26.1% usage

Now this year's Warriors

Curry 31% usage
Durant 30.4% usage
Thompson 23.7% usage

The Cavs during their championship year

Lebron 31.4% usage
Irving 29.5% usage
Love 23.4% usage

Its just normal to have a couple of stars with high usage(around 30 or more) and then another one or two with good usage (20-28%).

I expect Kyrie to lead this team in usage at over 30% next year and then could see 3 more players with 20-29% usage producing Kyrie being the leading scorer with 2-3(thinking 3)other guys scoring in the 15-21 point per game area.

Pace does seem to be an important factor here.  If usg is the %age of possessions 'used' by a player, and differences in pace allow some teams to have more possessions than others, then two players with the same usage% could have meaningfully different contributing stats (e.g. higher pace - more FGAs).  GS is averaging 7 more possessions per 48 this postseason.

These Celts also differ from GS in other important ways.  GS's youth grew organically, just as ours have so successfully in these playoffs.  By the time they added KD, they were a vet group knowingly making individual sacrifices to win.  The Celts are in a much different position for 2 reasons.  1. A 20 y/o and 21 y/o showing tremendous growth, potential to be the best player(s) on our championship team, and the ability to carry this group to the Finals now; we need to prioritize their growth above all else.   And 2. An even deeper core of offense e threat.  We have a legitimate 6 guys worthy of that usg in the 20s that you mentioned, and that can only be pared down to 4 (incl an AS in Hayward:still 1 more) after you relegate Rozier to the bench and our all star center to a minimal role, and while still relying on both of them to facilitate the offense at times. 

Kyrie is relevant here in that he is the biggest threat to achieving optimal team play with a focus on individual growth, sustainability, and managing egos.  Maybe Terry gets frustrated and demands a trade, but as of now, all our other guys seem to be high in character and team oriented; in fact, I'd argue that while we may have more talent than some expected, it is our defense and high character as a team that is most responsible for this great playoff run.  But Kyrie has the biggest name, a large and evidently fragile ego, and very questionable character to threaten surgery if a trade demand weren't met.  Our success requires adjustment from him, and based on his past behavior, I dont trust that hes capable of that.  Hopefully I'm wrong, though.  If he can put his ego aside, we could won several chips beginning next season.
Here is thedefinition of usage %:
An estimate of the percentage of team plays used by a player while he was on the floor.

It has nothing to due with pace, or number of shots taken per 48. It has to do with the % of plays a player helps to finish while on the floor, like by scoring or getting an assist. So your take on Golden State is irrelevant, especially regarding how they got their players.

The simple fact is the most efficient offenses aren't offenses with a bunch of everyone in the 20% usage. As can be seen in the stats I showed, most championship team have at least one andsometi es two players in the 30% or more range. Why because they have superstars and its the superstars that win championships.

Kyrie isn't going to hurt this offense by having a 30% usage rate because its just common for stars to have a rate that high, even more so for PG stars.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Rondo9 on May 19, 2018, 05:18:19 PM
I don't think the Celtics can beat out the Suns who have the number one pick.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on May 19, 2018, 05:26:43 PM
I know that stats on losing teams are heavily distorted, but I don't think I've heard anyone talk about how good of a shooter KAT is.

I'm not saying he is a good big man shooter. I'm saying he is a good shooter and might be elite one day soon.

So far in his career, he is at 44% from 10-16 feet, 48% (8% of his total shots) from 16-23 feet (15% of his total shots), and 38% from 3 (17% of his total shots). That means he takes 40% of his shots from outside 10 feet, but his shooting percentage from out there is over 42%.

Of all the players I've seen with that shot distribution and percentage, the most comparable is Dirk, and KAT is better. KAT is also a better rim protector, rebounder, and post scorer than Dirk.

People have kind of piled on him with the ESPN narratives about his defense, and there is some truth there, but he is probably a better defender right now than Dirk ever has been, especially Dirk in his young 20s.

The problem, having been to a Wolves game (the scary one where Brown fell on his neck/head) and chatting with some fans around me, is that the fan base is tired of the rebuild (although I'd say the guys I talked to seemed content to just make the playoffs). That means that the Wolves would need to get back guys who are ready to compete in the playoffs now.

Al Horford is probably the guy they'd most be interested in, but I don't think Ainge would do that.
Irving is a possibility, but again, I don't think Ainge would do that.
Brown and Tatum are all redundant on their current roster and probably not guys Ainge wants to include in a trade package.

The Cs could offer a "rebuild" package around Rozier, Yabusele, the Kings pick, Memphis pick, etc., but again, I think they'd rather have a proven inside presence.

The only way I could see something happening would be to rope in a third team, sending the Kings pick and Yabusele to them for a proven two-way starter. That brings me to my trade ideas. Not sure any of these trades are legit, but with the number of stars that are unhappy, it may be a bit easier to orchestrate a trade to get them in a deal like this.

Celtics get KAT
Pistons get Teague, Yabusele and the Kings pick
Wolves get Rozier, Drummond, and Memphis Pick, Clippers pick

Celtics get KAT
Wolves get Wall, Yabusele
Wizards get Rozier, Teague, Kings pick, Memphis pick, Clippers pick

Celtics get KAT
Wolves get Lillard, Memphis pick, Clippers pick
Blazers get Rozier, Teague, Yabusele, Kings pick

Celtics get KAT
Wolves get Aldridge, Leonard
Spurs get Teague, Rozier, Yabusele, Dieng, Kings pick, Memphis pick, Clippers pick
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: wdleehi on May 19, 2018, 05:29:05 PM
Rosier and the Sac pick is where the Celtics offer starts. 

Irving, Horford, Hayward, Brown and Tatum are off the table. 

What other pieces does Min want? 
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: byennie on May 19, 2018, 05:44:15 PM
It'd be aweso.e to have a star in the mid to low 20s in usage.  We have too much top end talent for 1 guy to be above a 30
Its actually extremely normal for a championship team to have a player with a usage% over 30% and 3 players over 27% usage %.  Just check recent champions for proof.

GS? I cant look it up, but I imagine they play at a much faster pace.  Our pace slowed considerably this season. That could also reflect shots vs time of possession, right? GS does my have anyone pounding the ball
Pretty sure pace has anything to do with usage% so not seeing your point. Knowing your hatred of Kyrie I think this is your way of saying you don't think Kyrie having a usage % over 30% is good for this team but look at last year's GSW championship.

Curry 30.1% usage
Durant 27.8% usage
Thompson 26.1% usage

Now this year's Warriors

Curry 31% usage
Durant 30.4% usage
Thompson 23.7% usage

The Cavs during their championship year

Lebron 31.4% usage
Irving 29.5% usage
Love 23.4% usage

Its just normal to have a couple of stars with high usage(around 30 or more) and then another one or two with good usage (20-28%).

I expect Kyrie to lead this team in usage at over 30% next year and then could see 3 more players with 20-29% usage producing Kyrie being the leading scorer with 2-3(thinking 3)other guys scoring in the 15-21 point per game area.

Pace does seem to be an important factor here.  If usg is the %age of possessions 'used' by a player, and differences in pace allow some teams to have more possessions than others, then two players with the same usage% could have meaningfully different contributing stats (e.g. higher pace - more FGAs).  GS is averaging 7 more possessions per 48 this postseason.

These Celts also differ from GS in other important ways.  GS's youth grew organically, just as ours have so successfully in these playoffs.  By the time they added KD, they were a vet group knowingly making individual sacrifices to win.  The Celts are in a much different position for 2 reasons.  1. A 20 y/o and 21 y/o showing tremendous growth, potential to be the best player(s) on our championship team, and the ability to carry this group to the Finals now; we need to prioritize their growth above all else.   And 2. An even deeper core of offense e threat.  We have a legitimate 6 guys worthy of that usg in the 20s that you mentioned, and that can only be pared down to 4 (incl an AS in Hayward:still 1 more) after you relegate Rozier to the bench and our all star center to a minimal role, and while still relying on both of them to facilitate the offense at times. 

Kyrie is relevant here in that he is the biggest threat to achieving optimal team play with a focus on individual growth, sustainability, and managing egos.  Maybe Terry gets frustrated and demands a trade, but as of now, all our other guys seem to be high in character and team oriented; in fact, I'd argue that while we may have more talent than some expected, it is our defense and high character as a team that is most responsible for this great playoff run.  But Kyrie has the biggest name, a large and evidently fragile ego, and very questionable character to threaten surgery if a trade demand weren't met.  Our success requires adjustment from him, and based on his past behavior, I dont trust that hes capable of that.  Hopefully I'm wrong, though.  If he can put his ego aside, we could won several chips beginning next season.
Here is thedefinition of usage %:
An estimate of the percentage of team plays used by a player while he was on the floor.

It has nothing to due with pace, or number of shots taken per 48. It has to do with the % of plays a player helps to finish while on the floor, like by scoring or getting an assist. So your take on Golden State is irrelevant, especially regarding how they got their players.

The simple fact is the most efficient offenses aren't offenses with a bunch of everyone in the 20% usage. As can be seen in the stats I showed, most championship team have at least one andsometi es two players in the 30% or more range. Why because they have superstars and its the superstars that win championships.

Kyrie isn't going to hurt this offense by having a 30% usage rate because its just common for stars to have a rate that high, even more so for PG stars.

Both the Spurs (5 championships) and the Celtics Big 3 era featured 3-4 core players with usage rates in the 20s. Between the two they contended for something like 15+ years without anyone ever touching 30%.

So yeah, it's a superstar league, but I'm not buying a general rule about high usage and championships.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: vjcsmoke on May 19, 2018, 05:51:06 PM
Rosier and the Sac pick is where the Celtics offer starts. 

Irving, Horford, Hayward, Brown and Tatum are off the table. 

What other pieces does Min want?

If DA could pull that off while keeping Irving, Horford, Brown, and Tatum, he should have a statue built of him and placed inside the TD Garden.  That would be a HELL of a robbery and roster build.

To be able to field Irving, Brown, Tatum, Horford, and Towns on the floor at the same time would be ridiculous!!
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: footey on May 19, 2018, 05:56:31 PM
I see minn trying to trade Wiggins instead of Towns. Package Wiggins and Butler for Kawhi Leonard?
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on May 19, 2018, 06:06:54 PM
It'd be aweso.e to have a star in the mid to low 20s in usage.  We have too much top end talent for 1 guy to be above a 30
Its actually extremely normal for a championship team to have a player with a usage% over 30% and 3 players over 27% usage %.  Just check recent champions for proof.

GS? I cant look it up, but I imagine they play at a much faster pace.  Our pace slowed considerably this season. That could also reflect shots vs time of possession, right? GS does my have anyone pounding the ball
Pretty sure pace has anything to do with usage% so not seeing your point. Knowing your hatred of Kyrie I think this is your way of saying you don't think Kyrie having a usage % over 30% is good for this team but look at last year's GSW championship.

Curry 30.1% usage
Durant 27.8% usage
Thompson 26.1% usage

Now this year's Warriors

Curry 31% usage
Durant 30.4% usage
Thompson 23.7% usage

The Cavs during their championship year

Lebron 31.4% usage
Irving 29.5% usage
Love 23.4% usage

Its just normal to have a couple of stars with high usage(around 30 or more) and then another one or two with good usage (20-28%).

I expect Kyrie to lead this team in usage at over 30% next year and then could see 3 more players with 20-29% usage producing Kyrie being the leading scorer with 2-3(thinking 3)other guys scoring in the 15-21 point per game area.

Pace does seem to be an important factor here.  If usg is the %age of possessions 'used' by a player, and differences in pace allow some teams to have more possessions than others, then two players with the same usage% could have meaningfully different contributing stats (e.g. higher pace - more FGAs).  GS is averaging 7 more possessions per 48 this postseason.

These Celts also differ from GS in other important ways.  GS's youth grew organically, just as ours have so successfully in these playoffs.  By the time they added KD, they were a vet group knowingly making individual sacrifices to win.  The Celts are in a much different position for 2 reasons.  1. A 20 y/o and 21 y/o showing tremendous growth, potential to be the best player(s) on our championship team, and the ability to carry this group to the Finals now; we need to prioritize their growth above all else.   And 2. An even deeper core of offense e threat.  We have a legitimate 6 guys worthy of that usg in the 20s that you mentioned, and that can only be pared down to 4 (incl an AS in Hayward:still 1 more) after you relegate Rozier to the bench and our all star center to a minimal role, and while still relying on both of them to facilitate the offense at times. 

Kyrie is relevant here in that he is the biggest threat to achieving optimal team play with a focus on individual growth, sustainability, and managing egos.  Maybe Terry gets frustrated and demands a trade, but as of now, all our other guys seem to be high in character and team oriented; in fact, I'd argue that while we may have more talent than some expected, it is our defense and high character as a team that is most responsible for this great playoff run.  But Kyrie has the biggest name, a large and evidently fragile ego, and very questionable character to threaten surgery if a trade demand weren't met.  Our success requires adjustment from him, and based on his past behavior, I dont trust that hes capable of that.  Hopefully I'm wrong, though.  If he can put his ego aside, we could won several chips beginning next season.
Here is thedefinition of usage %:
An estimate of the percentage of team plays used by a player while he was on the floor.

It has nothing to due with pace, or number of shots taken per 48. It has to do with the % of plays a player helps to finish while on the floor, like by scoring or getting an assist. So your take on Golden State is irrelevant, especially regarding how they got their players.

The simple fact is the most efficient offenses aren't offenses with a bunch of everyone in the 20% usage. As can be seen in the stats I showed, most championship team have at least one andsometi es two players in the 30% or more range. Why because they have superstars and its the superstars that win championships.

Kyrie isn't going to hurt this offense by having a 30% usage rate because its just common for stars to have a rate that high, even more so for PG stars.

I defined for you above what usage is, as well as how it is affected by pace.  Again, an individual's % of plays out of the total number of plays by a team per 48 (which is 7+ for GS)  That's very straightforward.  Your refusal to consider this and its potential impact on the topic (I went on to discuss several other important factors that very clearly differentiate our situation from GS's) is stubbornness that detracts from the quality of convo.  Many posters here questioned how GS would work with so many stars; our situation next year will be necessarily much more complex and challenging.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on May 19, 2018, 06:14:51 PM
It'd be aweso.e to have a star in the mid to low 20s in usage.  We have too much top end talent for 1 guy to be above a 30
Its actually extremely normal for a championship team to have a player with a usage% over 30% and 3 players over 27% usage %.  Just check recent champions for proof.

GS? I cant look it up, but I imagine they play at a much faster pace.  Our pace slowed considerably this season. That could also reflect shots vs time of possession, right? GS does my have anyone pounding the ball
Pretty sure pace has anything to do with usage% so not seeing your point. Knowing your hatred of Kyrie I think this is your way of saying you don't think Kyrie having a usage % over 30% is good for this team but look at last year's GSW championship.

Curry 30.1% usage
Durant 27.8% usage
Thompson 26.1% usage

Now this year's Warriors

Curry 31% usage
Durant 30.4% usage
Thompson 23.7% usage

The Cavs during their championship year

Lebron 31.4% usage
Irving 29.5% usage
Love 23.4% usage

Its just normal to have a couple of stars with high usage(around 30 or more) and then another one or two with good usage (20-28%).

I expect Kyrie to lead this team in usage at over 30% next year and then could see 3 more players with 20-29% usage producing Kyrie being the leading scorer with 2-3(thinking 3)other guys scoring in the 15-21 point per game area.

Pace does seem to be an important factor here.  If usg is the %age of possessions 'used' by a player, and differences in pace allow some teams to have more possessions than others, then two players with the same usage% could have meaningfully different contributing stats (e.g. higher pace - more FGAs).  GS is averaging 7 more possessions per 48 this postseason.

These Celts also differ from GS in other important ways.  GS's youth grew organically, just as ours have so successfully in these playoffs.  By the time they added KD, they were a vet group knowingly making individual sacrifices to win.  The Celts are in a much different position for 2 reasons.  1. A 20 y/o and 21 y/o showing tremendous growth, potential to be the best player(s) on our championship team, and the ability to carry this group to the Finals now; we need to prioritize their growth above all else.   And 2. An even deeper core of offense e threat.  We have a legitimate 6 guys worthy of that usg in the 20s that you mentioned, and that can only be pared down to 4 (incl an AS in Hayward:still 1 more) after you relegate Rozier to the bench and our all star center to a minimal role, and while still relying on both of them to facilitate the offense at times. 

Kyrie is relevant here in that he is the biggest threat to achieving optimal team play with a focus on individual growth, sustainability, and managing egos.  Maybe Terry gets frustrated and demands a trade, but as of now, all our other guys seem to be high in character and team oriented; in fact, I'd argue that while we may have more talent than some expected, it is our defense and high character as a team that is most responsible for this great playoff run.  But Kyrie has the biggest name, a large and evidently fragile ego, and very questionable character to threaten surgery if a trade demand weren't met.  Our success requires adjustment from him, and based on his past behavior, I dont trust that hes capable of that.  Hopefully I'm wrong, though.  If he can put his ego aside, we could won several chips beginning next season.
Here is thedefinition of usage %:
An estimate of the percentage of team plays used by a player while he was on the floor.

It has nothing to due with pace, or number of shots taken per 48. It has to do with the % of plays a player helps to finish while on the floor, like by scoring or getting an assist. So your take on Golden State is irrelevant, especially regarding how they got their players.

The simple fact is the most efficient offenses aren't offenses with a bunch of everyone in the 20% usage. As can be seen in the stats I showed, most championship team have at least one andsometi es two players in the 30% or more range. Why because they have superstars and its the superstars that win championships.

Kyrie isn't going to hurt this offense by having a 30% usage rate because its just common for stars to have a rate that high, even more so for PG stars.

Both the Spurs (5 championships) and the Celtics Big 3 era featured 3-4 core players with usage rates in the 20s. Between the two they contended for something like 15+ years without anyone ever touching 30%.

So yeah, it's a superstar league, but I'm not buying a general rule about high usage and championships.

I didn't propose a general rule.  I provided context as to how our situation will be especially challenging in context of similar teams in recent history.  I added specific reasons as to why I think it will be more challenging based on specific circumstances involving 1 player, all of which are face valid -- ego-driven, defensive weakness that is our strength, character issues.   I regret putting as much thought into these posts when they're immediately dismissed based on the fact that I made the post, personal opinion, or back-slapping among buddies.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: KGs Knee on May 19, 2018, 06:19:06 PM
It'd be aweso.e to have a star in the mid to low 20s in usage.  We have too much top end talent for 1 guy to be above a 30
Its actually extremely normal for a championship team to have a player with a usage% over 30% and 3 players over 27% usage %.  Just check recent champions for proof.

GS? I cant look it up, but I imagine they play at a much faster pace.  Our pace slowed considerably this season. That could also reflect shots vs time of possession, right? GS does my have anyone pounding the ball
Pretty sure pace has anything to do with usage% so not seeing your point. Knowing your hatred of Kyrie I think this is your way of saying you don't think Kyrie having a usage % over 30% is good for this team but look at last year's GSW championship.

Curry 30.1% usage
Durant 27.8% usage
Thompson 26.1% usage

Now this year's Warriors

Curry 31% usage
Durant 30.4% usage
Thompson 23.7% usage

The Cavs during their championship year

Lebron 31.4% usage
Irving 29.5% usage
Love 23.4% usage

Its just normal to have a couple of stars with high usage(around 30 or more) and then another one or two with good usage (20-28%).

I expect Kyrie to lead this team in usage at over 30% next year and then could see 3 more players with 20-29% usage producing Kyrie being the leading scorer with 2-3(thinking 3)other guys scoring in the 15-21 point per game area.

Pace does seem to be an important factor here.  If usg is the %age of possessions 'used' by a player, and differences in pace allow some teams to have more possessions than others, then two players with the same usage% could have meaningfully different contributing stats (e.g. higher pace - more FGAs).  GS is averaging 7 more possessions per 48 this postseason.

These Celts also differ from GS in other important ways.  GS's youth grew organically, just as ours have so successfully in these playoffs.  By the time they added KD, they were a vet group knowingly making individual sacrifices to win.  The Celts are in a much different position for 2 reasons.  1. A 20 y/o and 21 y/o showing tremendous growth, potential to be the best player(s) on our championship team, and the ability to carry this group to the Finals now; we need to prioritize their growth above all else.   And 2. An even deeper core of offense e threat.  We have a legitimate 6 guys worthy of that usg in the 20s that you mentioned, and that can only be pared down to 4 (incl an AS in Hayward:still 1 more) after you relegate Rozier to the bench and our all star center to a minimal role, and while still relying on both of them to facilitate the offense at times. 

Kyrie is relevant here in that he is the biggest threat to achieving optimal team play with a focus on individual growth, sustainability, and managing egos.  Maybe Terry gets frustrated and demands a trade, but as of now, all our other guys seem to be high in character and team oriented; in fact, I'd argue that while we may have more talent than some expected, it is our defense and high character as a team that is most responsible for this great playoff run.  But Kyrie has the biggest name, a large and evidently fragile ego, and very questionable character to threaten surgery if a trade demand weren't met.  Our success requires adjustment from him, and based on his past behavior, I dont trust that hes capable of that.  Hopefully I'm wrong, though.  If he can put his ego aside, we could won several chips beginning next season.
Here is thedefinition of usage %:
An estimate of the percentage of team plays used by a player while he was on the floor.

It has nothing to due with pace, or number of shots taken per 48. It has to do with the % of plays a player helps to finish while on the floor, like by scoring or getting an assist. So your take on Golden State is irrelevant, especially regarding how they got their players.

The simple fact is the most efficient offenses aren't offenses with a bunch of everyone in the 20% usage. As can be seen in the stats I showed, most championship team have at least one andsometi es two players in the 30% or more range. Why because they have superstars and its the superstars that win championships.

Kyrie isn't going to hurt this offense by having a 30% usage rate because its just common for stars to have a rate that high, even more so for PG stars.

I defined for you above what usage is, as well as how it is affected by pace.  Again, an individual's % of plays out of the total number of plays by a team per 48 (which is 7+ for GS)  That's very straightforward.  Your refusal to consider this and its potential impact on the topic (I went on to discuss several other important factors that very clearly differentiate our situation from GS's, by making it more challenging) is stubbornness that detracts from the quality of convo.

I get your point regarding pace. Obviously the more possessions a team has the more shot attempts are going to be available for all players. A player with a 20% usage rate will have a greater number of possession that end with a qualifying event (shot attempt, assist, turnover) the greater number of possessions they are involved in.

And in that vein, if your point is that by GSW having a higher pace they are more easily able to satisfy the desires of Durant, Curry, and Thompson in getting up what they deem a rightful number of shot attempts, I guess you're right.

But I do not agree with your assertion that any of Boston's players are so selfish that this will be an issue. These are all higher character players (including Kyrie) who have been chosen by Ainge at least in part for this very reason.

And while we're on the topic of being stubborn, it's kind of funny to here those words come from you, when you may be the single most stubborn individual here, at least when it comes to all things Kyrie.   It's not a big deal, I just found it ironic.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: nickagneta on May 19, 2018, 06:27:48 PM
Your definition of usage is wrong. I quoted the definition straight from basketballreference.com. I did a search. Not one site defined it any differently. Pace and per 48 minutes simply has nothing to do with that number. If you are involved in 30 out of 100 plays your usage is 30%. If you are involved in 15 plays out of 50 your usage is 30%. Pace and number of plays have zero to do with the number. If you can't understand that we have nothing else to discuss.

Regarding championship teams and players with 30% usage the following champions all had at least one player at 30% and sometimes two.

2017 GSW
2016 CLE
2015 GSE
2013 MIA
2012 MIA
2011 DAL didn't but Dirk's was over 28%
2010 LAL
2009 LAL
2006 MIA
All the Chicago championships
All the Lakers championships
All the Rockets championships

That's a vast majority of championship teams. Simple fact is having a 30% usage player doesn't mean your offense is worse, like tars claimed Boston would, and most championship teams have at least one player that has that usage rate.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on May 19, 2018, 06:29:50 PM
Back to the thread topic. I posted these earlier -- thoughts?

The Cs could offer a "rebuild" package around Rozier, Yabusele, the Kings pick, Memphis pick, etc., but again, I think they'd (Wolves) rather have a proven talent.

The only way I could see something happening would be to rope in a third team, sending the Kings pick and Yabusele to them for a proven two-way starter. That brings me to my trade ideas. Not sure any of these trades are legit, but with the number of stars that are unhappy, it may be a bit easier to orchestrate a trade to get them in a deal like this.

Celtics get KAT
Pistons get Teague, Yabusele and the Kings pick
Wolves get Rozier, Drummond, and Memphis Pick, Clippers pick

Celtics get KAT
Wolves get Wall, Yabusele
Wizards get Rozier, Teague, Kings pick, Memphis pick, Clippers pick

Celtics get KAT
Wolves get Lillard, Memphis pick, Clippers pick
Blazers get Rozier, Teague, Yabusele, Kings pick

Celtics get KAT
Wolves get Aldridge, Leonard
Spurs get Teague, Rozier, Yabusele, Dieng, Kings pick, Memphis pick, Clippers pick
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: KGs Knee on May 19, 2018, 06:35:11 PM
back-slapping among buddies.

This isn't really a fair statement at all.

I can assure you that while Nick and I are friends, we most certainly are not doing any back-slapping here. We've had plenty of disagrements on a wide range of topics over the years (especially when it comes to politics). Nick has also never been reticent to take his moderator duties seriously when he's felt necessary in regards to anyone here, even his friends (I've been reprimanded a few times by him recently - even though I disagreed on the necessity of it).
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: byennie on May 19, 2018, 06:40:10 PM
I didn't propose a general rule.  I provided context as to how our situation will be especially challenging in context of similar teams in recent history.  I added specific reasons as to why I think it will be more challenging based on specific circumstances involving 1 player, all of which are face valid -- ego-driven, defensive weakness that is our strength, character issues.   I regret putting as much thought into these posts when they're immediately dismissed based on the fact that I made the post, personal opinion, or back-slapping among buddies.

That's fine, but I disagree that it's problematic, specifically because:

* SAS and previous BOS teams are two very relevant comps that thrived
* CLE is a completely different situation
* There really is no "normal" to go by here at all, i.e. I don't put too much stock into one team (GS)
* The majority of our roster appears to be made up of strong-minded, team-oriented guys behind a great organization

My response has zero to do with you personally, and I have no "buddies" in this thread. I'm not on here enough to have a clue what your posting history is like or gang up on anyone.

Please don't dismiss my posts as "personal opinion" and "back-slapping" and suppose that yours are so much more thoughtful, thanks.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Monkhouse on May 19, 2018, 06:48:00 PM
Back to the thread topic. I posted these earlier -- thoughts?

The Cs could offer a "rebuild" package around Rozier, Yabusele, the Kings pick, Memphis pick, etc., but again, I think they'd (Wolves) rather have a proven talent.

The only way I could see something happening would be to rope in a third team, sending the Kings pick and Yabusele to them for a proven two-way starter. That brings me to my trade ideas. Not sure any of these trades are legit, but with the number of stars that are unhappy, it may be a bit easier to orchestrate a trade to get them in a deal like this.

Celtics get KAT
Pistons get Teague, Yabusele and the Kings pick
Wolves get Rozier, Drummond, and Memphis Pick, Clippers pick

Celtics get KAT
Wolves get Wall, Yabusele
Wizards get Rozier, Teague, Kings pick, Memphis pick, Clippers pick

Celtics get KAT
Wolves get Lillard, Memphis pick, Clippers pick
Blazers get Rozier, Teague, Yabusele, Kings pick

Celtics get KAT
Wolves get Aldridge, Leonard
Spurs get Teague, Rozier, Yabusele, Dieng, Kings pick, Memphis pick, Clippers pick

The Spurs could possibly give up Aldridge, but it wouldn't make any sense to trade Aldridge for Towns unless MIN totally gets Kawhi. I just don't see the Spurs giving up both. Rozier is an excellent player, and once he's able to be given the keys to the offense. Murray, and Rozier will be a deadly but slightly undersized back court, that can use their speed and length to disrupt players.

This is the only trade that makes sense.

Wizards/Blazers aren't trading their best star point guards... If anything Beal or McCollum are on their way out basically, if they were trade fodder.

Pistons makes sense, but why would MIN want an inferior center that is a great player, but do the Pistons really want to rebuild right now?
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Monkhouse on May 19, 2018, 06:52:47 PM
Thibs is a great defensive minded coach, but he does not know how to get his players to buy into his system and his offense. Look at Wiggins. He is just out of control. I see him getting traded first, and as some previous poster mentioned... KAT is a young and upcoming star. He has the tools and potential to be a top 3 center by next year. He can shoot, he can rebound, and he can pass. I would've said before he got drafted, I followed his career and Ballislife highlights, and from what I've seen and gathered. He plays sort of like a more finesse version of Kevin Love, minus the ability to be more efficient, and a little taller.

Under Stevens, I could see him averaging 20/11/4-5 APG, and those are out of world numbers to put next to Horford, who as others have mentioned have that Dominican connection. I actually believe KAT would be better off suited as the 4, and you can allow Horford and KAT to switch on defense. They both have the body type to be flexible, and I really don't think Thibs knows how to coach KAT. He seems lost and disinterested in offense most of the time, and looks asleep on defense. Something Stevens would absurdly refuse to accept.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: JHTruth on May 19, 2018, 06:53:31 PM
Meh don't see the need to trade for him. Wait to see if he improves his D then go after him in FA. We will still be a very attractive destination
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Phantom255x on May 19, 2018, 06:53:48 PM
Back to the thread topic. I posted these earlier -- thoughts?

The Cs could offer a "rebuild" package around Rozier, Yabusele, the Kings pick, Memphis pick, etc., but again, I think they'd (Wolves) rather have a proven talent.

The only way I could see something happening would be to rope in a third team, sending the Kings pick and Yabusele to them for a proven two-way starter. That brings me to my trade ideas. Not sure any of these trades are legit, but with the number of stars that are unhappy, it may be a bit easier to orchestrate a trade to get them in a deal like this.

Celtics get KAT
Pistons get Teague, Yabusele and the Kings pick
Wolves get Rozier, Drummond, and Memphis Pick, Clippers pick

Celtics get KAT
Wolves get Wall, Yabusele
Wizards get Rozier, Teague, Kings pick, Memphis pick, Clippers pick

Celtics get KAT
Wolves get Lillard, Memphis pick, Clippers pick
Blazers get Rozier, Teague, Yabusele, Kings pick

Celtics get KAT
Wolves get Aldridge, Leonard
Spurs get Teague, Rozier, Yabusele, Dieng, Kings pick, Memphis pick, Clippers pick

Yeah, I also originally thought a 3-team trade would have to occur for this to happen.

I was trying to see if there could be one involving Memphis, Minnesota and Boston, or Orlando, Minnesota and Boston (with #4 or #6 picks, respectively, going to Minnesota in package)

But these are some solid ideas. TP and Good work!

I like the Detroit one and think that could happen. San Antonio as well if they truly do trade Kawhi (they get a Kings ransom, MIN gets a superstar, and we get Towns). I doubt SAS gives up BOTH Aldridge and Kawhi though. They keep Aldridge instead of giving him up for Dieng essentially.

I don't think Portland and Washington are as likely since I predict they stubbornly hold on to Lilliard/Wall and instead deal Beal or McCollum.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on May 19, 2018, 07:23:29 PM
Back to the thread topic. I posted these earlier -- thoughts?

The Cs could offer a "rebuild" package around Rozier, Yabusele, the Kings pick, Memphis pick, etc., but again, I think they'd (Wolves) rather have a proven talent.

The only way I could see something happening would be to rope in a third team, sending the Kings pick and Yabusele to them for a proven two-way starter. That brings me to my trade ideas. Not sure any of these trades are legit, but with the number of stars that are unhappy, it may be a bit easier to orchestrate a trade to get them in a deal like this.

Celtics get KAT
Pistons get Teague, Yabusele and the Kings pick
Wolves get Rozier, Drummond, and Memphis Pick, Clippers pick

Celtics get KAT
Wolves get Wall, Yabusele
Wizards get Rozier, Teague, Kings pick, Memphis pick, Clippers pick

Celtics get KAT
Wolves get Lillard, Memphis pick, Clippers pick
Blazers get Rozier, Teague, Yabusele, Kings pick

Celtics get KAT
Wolves get Aldridge, Leonard
Spurs get Teague, Rozier, Yabusele, Dieng, Kings pick, Memphis pick, Clippers pick

The Spurs could possibly give up Aldridge, but it wouldn't make any sense to trade Aldridge for Towns unless MIN totally gets Kawhi. I just don't see the Spurs giving up both. Rozier is an excellent player, and once he's able to be given the keys to the offense. Murray, and Rozier will be a deadly but slightly undersized back court, that can use their speed and length to disrupt players.

This is the only trade that makes sense.

Wizards/Blazers aren't trading their best star point guards... If anything Beal or McCollum are on their way out basically, if they were trade fodder.

Pistons makes sense, but why would MIN want an inferior center that is a great player, but do the Pistons really want to rebuild right now?

Thanks for the input.

I agree that the Detroit trade might be questionable. Drummond is an elite defensive anchor (numbers don't lie) with a budding offensive skill set. Next to Butler and behind Wiggins they would be a really good defense. If they think Rozier has higher upside than Teague, then Rozier gets them younger with more explosive potential. He is also a much better defender than Teague, which is needed in the West. Minny would probably need/want one more solid rotation piece to get it done.

I think both Wall and Lillard are gonna force their way out of Washington and Portland soon enough -- I included those trades with that assumption. The competition for Lillard would probably be Philly (with Fultz/Saric/picks), but I think both teams get good value back in this deal for guys that are second tier point guards in the NBA. You could argue that the Wizards would be a better team and have picks to fill out the roster with more depth or trade for a big. The Blazers are not better with this trade, but they need to push the reset/rebuild button soon anyway. This trade gives them the ability to do so quickly.

For the Spurs, it's about a rebuild more than anything. They get picks and young talent and get off of Aldridges big contract. Rozier-Murray-Yab-Bertans-??? is not a bad young core, and they get some valuable picks next year to retool quickly. In the end, they probably want more to make this work, and that's where the trade breaks down.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Phantom255x on May 19, 2018, 08:08:34 PM
I see minn trying to trade Wiggins instead of Towns. Package Wiggins and Butler for Kawhi Leonard?

Trade Wiggins for Kevin Love! Problems solved...  :P :laugh:
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Beat LA on May 19, 2018, 11:04:51 PM
Thibs is a great defensive minded coach, but he does not know how to get his players to buy into his system and his offense.

Thibs has an offense? ;D
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: gouki88 on May 19, 2018, 11:14:34 PM
Thibs is a great defensive minded coach, but he does not know how to get his players to buy into his system and his offense.

Thibs has an offense? ;D
Give it to Derrick/Jimmy ;)
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Beat LA on May 19, 2018, 11:21:10 PM
Thibs is a great defensive minded coach, but he does not know how to get his players to buy into his system and his offense.

Thibs has an offense? ;D
Give it to Derrick/Jimmy ;)

Pretty much, lol ;D.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Bucketgetter on May 20, 2018, 01:36:49 AM
Yup, let's trade our best player (Kyrie) for an inferior player who plays a position we're already set at, and in the process create a roster imbalance that will force us to not be able to play our 5 best players to either start nor finish games.

Yup, Celtics fans done lost their [dang] minds.
Lol you must not be talking about the Celtics. Our guards and wings are way stronger than our bigs. This post is completely backwards, and that's not even up for debate.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong.

Trading Kyrie for KAT would result in our five best players being two bigs and three wings. None of them are primary ball handlers. In order to put a primary ball handler on the court we would have to take one of our five best players off the court.

That is not good roster management any way you slice it.
Key word being "if" we traded Kyrie. You said we are already set at big. It is our biggest position of need lol. Hayward/Tatum/Brown > Horford/Baynes/Theis. Also, Kyrie/Rozier/Smart > Horford/Baynes/Theis. We already have a roster imbalance, but it won't be fixed by trading Kyrie for Towns. Sorry buddy, but you're wrong.

I'm not your buddy, pal. ;)

But seriously, I'm not sure what you're not understanding. You can't have your five best players all be non-primary ball handlers. That's not going to work, period.

We already have an All-Star at C, we don't need another C of that caliber. At least not one who is at that level already. Finding an eventual replacement for Horford is a good idea, but not at the cost of your best player, and not if it compromises your ability to actually put your five best players all on the court at the same time.
This is basically the same exact post you just made lol. You didn't even read what I wrote, and that's probably why you are having so much trouble understanding. Horford is a 4/5 who is 31. He can't start full time at center, which is why we had to start Baynes this year. That created a - wait for it - roster imbalance, because we had better wings and guards who weren't getting enough minutes. That was pretty much fixed by the multiple injuries, but we will have the same problem next year. However it won't be fixed by trading Kyrie for Towns, because it would create the same thing with guards. But we are absolutely not set at the big man position (which is what you posted), and your obsession with not having a roster imbalance should make you aware of that, but I really had to spell it out for ya. Hope that clears this up for you BUDDY  ;D
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: CelticsElite on May 20, 2018, 02:12:45 AM
Devin Booker Tweets Photo Of Karl-Anthony Towns In Suns Jersey

https://twitter.com/DevinBook/status/997648229511577600

Uh oh

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DdhbxoyV4AEA57V?format=jpg)


ďWith the first and 16th overall picks in this year's draft, along with incoming first rounders  in 2019 from the Bucks and 2021 from the Heat, the Suns could put together an attractive trade package for Towns.

The Suns are also on record that the first overall pick could be made available.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Rondo9 on May 20, 2018, 11:57:36 AM
I already said that the suns could beat the Celtics In terms of trade value.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Phantom255x on May 20, 2018, 12:00:04 PM
I already said that the suns could beat the Celtics In terms of trade value.

Well, duh, if they offer the #1 pick, no one can beat their offer. KAT is heading to Phoenix.

(Assuming he's being dealt obviously. I think MIN just keeps him for now)
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: KGs Knee on May 20, 2018, 12:05:11 PM
Devin Booker Tweets Photo Of Karl-Anthony Towns In Suns Jersey

https://twitter.com/DevinBook/status/997648229511577600

Uh oh

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DdhbxoyV4AEA57V?format=jpg)


ďWith the first and 16th overall picks in this year's draft, along with incoming first rounders  in 2019 from the Bucks and 2021 from the Heat, the Suns could put together an attractive trade package for Towns.

The Suns are also on record that the first overall pick could be made available.

I don't think the Wolves will find a 'rebuilding' package very attractive. Sure, the Suns can offer more than fair value, but after trading for Butler just last summer I really can't see them wanting to reverse course.

If Minnesota trades Towns it will be for established talent.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: KGs Knee on May 20, 2018, 12:10:35 PM
Yup, let's trade our best player (Kyrie) for an inferior player who plays a position we're already set at, and in the process create a roster imbalance that will force us to not be able to play our 5 best players to either start nor finish games.

Yup, Celtics fans done lost their [dang] minds.
Lol you must not be talking about the Celtics. Our guards and wings are way stronger than our bigs. This post is completely backwards, and that's not even up for debate.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong.

Trading Kyrie for KAT would result in our five best players being two bigs and three wings. None of them are primary ball handlers. In order to put a primary ball handler on the court we would have to take one of our five best players off the court.

That is not good roster management any way you slice it.
Key word being "if" we traded Kyrie. You said we are already set at big. It is our biggest position of need lol. Hayward/Tatum/Brown > Horford/Baynes/Theis. Also, Kyrie/Rozier/Smart > Horford/Baynes/Theis. We already have a roster imbalance, but it won't be fixed by trading Kyrie for Towns. Sorry buddy, but you're wrong.

I'm not your buddy, pal. ;)

But seriously, I'm not sure what you're not understanding. You can't have your five best players all be non-primary ball handlers. That's not going to work, period.

We already have an All-Star at C, we don't need another C of that caliber. At least not one who is at that level already. Finding an eventual replacement for Horford is a good idea, but not at the cost of your best player, and not if it compromises your ability to actually put your five best players all on the court at the same time.
This is basically the same exact post you just made lol. You didn't even read what I wrote, and that's probably why you are having so much trouble understanding. Horford is a 4/5 who is 31. He can't start full time at center, which is why we had to start Baynes this year. That created a - wait for it - roster imbalance, because we had better wings and guards who weren't getting enough minutes. That was pretty much fixed by the multiple injuries, but we will have the same problem next year. However it won't be fixed by trading Kyrie for Towns, because it would create the same thing with guards. But we are absolutely not set at the big man position (which is what you posted), and your obsession with not having a roster imbalance should make you aware of that, but I really had to spell it out for ya. Hope that clears this up for you BUDDY  ;D

Oh, I fully understand everything you're saying. What I'm telling you is you are flat out wrong.

We didn't start Horford at PF because he can't start at C, he's been a starting C every year of his career prior to joining the Celtics. We started Horford at C because Hayward got injured 5 minutes into the season. Horford will be our starting C next season, book it.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Moranis on May 21, 2018, 12:41:40 PM
The Wolves would be much better off just trading Thibs, Wiggins, or whomever is causing KAT to be disappointed.  That said if they move on from KAT, I think a team like the Lakers would be a darkhorse contender as they have a lot of young players, but also can provide some cap relief to the Wolves. 
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on May 21, 2018, 12:45:06 PM
The Wolves would be much better off just trading Thibs, Wiggins, or whomever is causing KAT to be disappointed.  That said if they move on from KAT, I think a team like the Lakers would be a darkhorse contender as they have a lot of young players, but also can provide some cap relief to the Wolves.

Agreed on your first point, but hopefully they don't figure that out.

As to your second point, I think they have their eyes on James/George/Leonard first.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Moranis on May 21, 2018, 12:59:26 PM
The Wolves would be much better off just trading Thibs, Wiggins, or whomever is causing KAT to be disappointed.  That said if they move on from KAT, I think a team like the Lakers would be a darkhorse contender as they have a lot of young players, but also can provide some cap relief to the Wolves.

Agreed on your first point, but hopefully they don't figure that out.

As to your second point, I think they have their eyes on James/George/Leonard first.
And why exactly can't they add Towns to that?  They have Ball, Ingram, and Kuzma as pieces.  They won't need all of those for a Leonard trade.  They also have potentially have Randle as a sign and trade (though that would make it more difficult to land 2 max free agents).  Sign George and James in free agency.  They'd have to get the order down for all those trades/signings, but I think it is doable as long as they can move Deng somewhere in there.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on May 21, 2018, 01:35:39 PM
The Wolves would be much better off just trading Thibs, Wiggins, or whomever is causing KAT to be disappointed.  That said if they move on from KAT, I think a team like the Lakers would be a darkhorse contender as they have a lot of young players, but also can provide some cap relief to the Wolves.

Agreed on your first point, but hopefully they don't figure that out.

As to your second point, I think they have their eyes on James/George/Leonard first.
And why exactly can't they add Towns to that?  They have Ball, Ingram, and Kuzma as pieces.  They won't need all of those for a Leonard trade.  They also have potentially have Randle as a sign and trade (though that would make it more difficult to land 2 max free agents).  Sign George and James in free agency.  They'd have to get the order down for all those trades/signings, but I think it is doable as long as they can move Deng somewhere in there.

Seems like you are a bit feisty on this.

To get Leonard, they'd probably have to give up Ingram. In order to make the trade work, they also have to include Deng, which means they'd need to include another piece (Hart? Kuzma?)
 
Considering the other offers that would be out there, I don't think Kuzma and Ball would be enough to get Towns.

Maybe they would target him over Leonard though.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Bucketgetter on May 21, 2018, 02:01:24 PM
Yup, let's trade our best player (Kyrie) for an inferior player who plays a position we're already set at, and in the process create a roster imbalance that will force us to not be able to play our 5 best players to either start nor finish games.

Yup, Celtics fans done lost their [dang] minds.
Lol you must not be talking about the Celtics. Our guards and wings are way stronger than our bigs. This post is completely backwards, and that's not even up for debate.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong.

Trading Kyrie for KAT would result in our five best players being two bigs and three wings. None of them are primary ball handlers. In order to put a primary ball handler on the court we would have to take one of our five best players off the court.

That is not good roster management any way you slice it.
Key word being "if" we traded Kyrie. You said we are already set at big. It is our biggest position of need lol. Hayward/Tatum/Brown > Horford/Baynes/Theis. Also, Kyrie/Rozier/Smart > Horford/Baynes/Theis. We already have a roster imbalance, but it won't be fixed by trading Kyrie for Towns. Sorry buddy, but you're wrong.

I'm not your buddy, pal. ;)

But seriously, I'm not sure what you're not understanding. You can't have your five best players all be non-primary ball handlers. That's not going to work, period.

We already have an All-Star at C, we don't need another C of that caliber. At least not one who is at that level already. Finding an eventual replacement for Horford is a good idea, but not at the cost of your best player, and not if it compromises your ability to actually put your five best players all on the court at the same time.
This is basically the same exact post you just made lol. You didn't even read what I wrote, and that's probably why you are having so much trouble understanding. Horford is a 4/5 who is 31. He can't start full time at center, which is why we had to start Baynes this year. That created a - wait for it - roster imbalance, because we had better wings and guards who weren't getting enough minutes. That was pretty much fixed by the multiple injuries, but we will have the same problem next year. However it won't be fixed by trading Kyrie for Towns, because it would create the same thing with guards. But we are absolutely not set at the big man position (which is what you posted), and your obsession with not having a roster imbalance should make you aware of that, but I really had to spell it out for ya. Hope that clears this up for you BUDDY  ;D

Oh, I fully understand everything you're saying. What I'm telling you is you are flat out wrong.

We didn't start Horford at PF because he can't start at C, he's been a starting C every year of his career prior to joining the Celtics. We started Horford at C because Hayward got injured 5 minutes into the season. Horford will be our starting C next season, book it.
Sigh, I guess I'll just wait until Danny makes a move for a big man to say I told you so. If you think Horford is the future full time center of this team, I can't argue with crazy lol. Have a good one and go Celtics.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: KGs Knee on May 21, 2018, 02:43:24 PM
Yup, let's trade our best player (Kyrie) for an inferior player who plays a position we're already set at, and in the process create a roster imbalance that will force us to not be able to play our 5 best players to either start nor finish games.

Yup, Celtics fans done lost their [dang] minds.
Lol you must not be talking about the Celtics. Our guards and wings are way stronger than our bigs. This post is completely backwards, and that's not even up for debate.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong.

Trading Kyrie for KAT would result in our five best players being two bigs and three wings. None of them are primary ball handlers. In order to put a primary ball handler on the court we would have to take one of our five best players off the court.

That is not good roster management any way you slice it.
Key word being "if" we traded Kyrie. You said we are already set at big. It is our biggest position of need lol. Hayward/Tatum/Brown > Horford/Baynes/Theis. Also, Kyrie/Rozier/Smart > Horford/Baynes/Theis. We already have a roster imbalance, but it won't be fixed by trading Kyrie for Towns. Sorry buddy, but you're wrong.

I'm not your buddy, pal. ;)

But seriously, I'm not sure what you're not understanding. You can't have your five best players all be non-primary ball handlers. That's not going to work, period.

We already have an All-Star at C, we don't need another C of that caliber. At least not one who is at that level already. Finding an eventual replacement for Horford is a good idea, but not at the cost of your best player, and not if it compromises your ability to actually put your five best players all on the court at the same time.
This is basically the same exact post you just made lol. You didn't even read what I wrote, and that's probably why you are having so much trouble understanding. Horford is a 4/5 who is 31. He can't start full time at center, which is why we had to start Baynes this year. That created a - wait for it - roster imbalance, because we had better wings and guards who weren't getting enough minutes. That was pretty much fixed by the multiple injuries, but we will have the same problem next year. However it won't be fixed by trading Kyrie for Towns, because it would create the same thing with guards. But we are absolutely not set at the big man position (which is what you posted), and your obsession with not having a roster imbalance should make you aware of that, but I really had to spell it out for ya. Hope that clears this up for you BUDDY  ;D

Oh, I fully understand everything you're saying. What I'm telling you is you are flat out wrong.

We didn't start Horford at PF because he can't start at C, he's been a starting C every year of his career prior to joining the Celtics. We started Horford at C because Hayward got injured 5 minutes into the season. Horford will be our starting C next season, book it.
Sigh, I guess I'll just wait until Danny makes a move for a big man to say I told you so. If you think Horford is the future full time center of this team, I can't argue with crazy lol. Have a good one and go Celtics.

LOL.....

Have fun waiting, it's going to be a while.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: dreamgreen on May 21, 2018, 03:41:06 PM
I've seen KAT be awesome and other times not so good. Can he play defense? C's need a strong defensive center going forward to battle with Embiid not sure KAT is that guy.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on May 21, 2018, 03:59:49 PM
I've seen KAT be awesome and other times not so good. Can he play defense? C's need a strong defensive center going forward to battle with Embiid not sure KAT is that guy.

I think he can be a fine defender, but with so many elite defensive players on the perimeter, that is not what matters as much.

KAT is an elite shooter and offensive players. The Wolves offensive rating with him on the court was 127, which is one of the top marks in the NBA. His shooting stretches the defense, but he can score in so many ways.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: green_bballers13 on May 21, 2018, 04:50:15 PM
The Wolves are screwed. They built a team that is not good enough to compete. They have to stay committed to Wiggins/Towns (or similar young talent). Both Wiggins and Towns have weaknesses, so its going to be hard for them to get an equal return. At the same time, they are probably their best chance (along with Butler) to attract more talent.

Their best path forward is to try to find some super glue guys that will rebound/play defense, and hope that Wiggins/Towns improve.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: goCeltics on May 21, 2018, 04:53:35 PM
C's have the best package established talent irving or up and coming jaylen, and thats not including tatum. Much rather jaylen than luka, no comparsion in terms of athleticism, and jaylen stats are as good as luka and luka is playing euroball!
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on May 21, 2018, 05:04:10 PM
I wonder if Teague/Wiggins could get you Lowry/DeRozan.

Then I wonder if Towns could get you Drummond/Rozier/draft picks.

A Lowry/Rozier/Derozan/Butler/Drummond core would be pretty good for the next few years. They would still be young enough to develop, and they would have guys on long-term contracts.

Then, you hope a guy like Patton can develop.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: nickagneta on May 21, 2018, 05:06:56 PM
The Wolves are screwed. They built a team that is not good enough to compete. They have to stay committed to Wiggins/Towns (or similar young talent). Both Wiggins and Towns have weaknesses, so its going to be hard for them to get an equal return. At the same time, they are probably their best chance (along with Butler) to attract more talent.

Their best path forward is to try to find some super glue guys that will rebound/play defense, and hope that Wiggins/Towns improve.
Disagree they need to stay commited to Wiggins and Towns. Butler and Towns, absolutely but not Wiggins.

Wiggins is an awful defender. He is a below average shooter who gets his points in a ridiculous, chucker fashion. He doesn't see the floor well and is a well beliw average passer.  He needs to go. He is a net negative on the team. He is about to take 25% of the team's salary. I would trade him at the deadline next year because he has a poison pill provision on his contract that makes it nearly impossible to trade him this offseason.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: LarBrd33 on May 21, 2018, 05:15:11 PM
How about a 3-way (that is equally unlikely as the original proposed trade)

To PHO:     Irving ($20M)
To BOS:     Towns ($7.8M) , Chandler ($13.5M)
To Minn:    #1 Pick ($6,7M), a future pick (maybe Clippers)

Filling in around this to be sure the salaries work (throw in Nader somewhere if you want).  I don't think this is likely but I do think this is fair if the Celtics were to go in this direction (trading Irving).

Smart
Brown
Hayward
Horford
Towns

Rozier
Tatum
Morris
Chandler
Yabusele
Ojeleye

That is a pretty good team.  Maybe not as good as a team with Irving in the first year but this team is young and durable.  We would probably add some bench wings (easy enough to find).

Did I mention that this is hypothetical and I don't think the Celtics are going to trade Irving but it is more likely that they trade him for a player that can contribute immediately over a draft pick.

Why does Minnie do this deal? The ceiling with the 1 pick is probably a player about the caliber of Towns.

If the Cs did this deal, where is Theis in the lineup?
FWIW, the only reason I could see Minny doing the deal is if Jimmy Butler (who is apparently tight with Kyrie) tells them "I'm leaving unless you bring in Kyrie".   If they are at risk of losing Butler for nothing in free agency next summer, it could change the equation.  NBA stars have so much leverage... so if those two want to play together, it could be a problem.  That said, they might enjoy playing in somewhere like Los Angeles instead.  Minny is the pits.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Vermont Green on May 21, 2018, 05:33:10 PM
How about a 3-way (that is equally unlikely as the original proposed trade)

To PHO:     Irving ($20M)
To BOS:     Towns ($7.8M) , Chandler ($13.5M)
To Minn:    #1 Pick ($6,7M), a future pick (maybe Clippers)

Filling in around this to be sure the salaries work (throw in Nader somewhere if you want).  I don't think this is likely but I do think this is fair if the Celtics were to go in this direction (trading Irving).

Smart
Brown
Hayward
Horford
Towns

Rozier
Tatum
Morris
Chandler
Yabusele
Ojeleye

That is a pretty good team.  Maybe not as good as a team with Irving in the first year but this team is young and durable.  We would probably add some bench wings (easy enough to find).

Did I mention that this is hypothetical and I don't think the Celtics are going to trade Irving but it is more likely that they trade him for a player that can contribute immediately over a draft pick.

Why does Minnie do this deal? The ceiling with the 1 pick is probably a player about the caliber of Towns.

If the Cs did this deal, where is Theis in the lineup?
FWIW, the only reason I could see Minny doing the deal is if Jimmy Butler (who is apparently tight with Kyrie) tells them "I'm leaving unless you bring in Kyrie".   If they are at risk of losing Butler for nothing in free agency next summer, it could change the equation.  NBA stars have so much leverage... so if those two want to play together, it could be a problem.  That said, they might enjoy playing in somewhere like Los Angeles instead.  Minny is the pits.
Wait, I am confused, I posted this in another thread (not this one) and my reply to Sophomore was that I think it is very unlikely that the Wolves trade Towns, I was just discussing the theme of the thread as a hypothetical if they were to trade him, getting a #1 pick from PHO in a highly acclaimed draft year along with another pick would be a pretty fair deal.

If they do trade Towns for a couple of picks, Jimmy Butler would be justifiably upset.  I am sure he would want to keep the good player so they can win now.  But my proposed deal had Irving going to PHO, not Minny.  I don't see even an unlikely deal with Minny direct.  It would have to be Towns plus another $10M or so coming back.  That was where Chandler came in.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Csfan1984 on May 21, 2018, 05:52:03 PM
There is no way DA trades Irving for KAT straight up. It would take KAT and Wiggins to get Irving. Irving is a much better player.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: MaxAMillion on May 27, 2018, 04:58:23 PM
There is no way DA trades Irving for KAT straight up. It would take KAT and Wiggins to get Irving. Irving is a much better player.

Irving can't stay healthy. He has played 60 games or less in 4 of 7 seasons. That doesn't even include the 1 year of college when he only played 9 games.

Players like Irving rarely start staying healthy as they get older. I hope he gets traded.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Beat LA on May 27, 2018, 06:02:32 PM
There is no way DA trades Irving for KAT straight up. It would take KAT and Wiggins to get Irving. Irving is a much better player.

Irving can't stay healthy. He has played 60 games or less in 4 of 7 seasons. That doesn't even include the 1 year of college when he only played 9 games.

Players like Irving rarely start staying healthy as they get older. I hope he gets traded.

And if he were to go to Minnesota, Thibs would have him in a wheelchair by the end of the preseason, lol, so, honestly, I have to think that the best place for Kyrie, at least in terms of being under the care of the best medical staff in the business so as to give him the best chance at a long career, would have to be Phoenix, but yeah, he isn't being traded to the Suns, or at least I don't see it happening, anyway, but who knows? Strange things happen.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: SHAQATTACK on May 27, 2018, 06:29:14 PM
KLove for CAT


 :D
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: triboy16f on May 28, 2018, 12:12:35 AM
I wonder how hard Danny will try to pursue Towns this offseason.  If there is an opportunity you know sly Danny will be involved

I wonder if the Wolves would bite on a package of Horford, Brown and Rozier for Kat and fillers.

I would even consider including the 2019 Kings 1st

KAT is a stud
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Vegas Green on May 28, 2018, 12:21:53 AM
That's way too much. Should be pick heavy not player heavy anyeay on what C's give them in return
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Vegas Green on May 28, 2018, 12:24:15 AM
More like Rosier, Semi, clips pick, kings pick, Memphis pick
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: gouki88 on May 28, 2018, 12:41:46 AM
I'd consider something like Teague & KAT for Al, Rozier & picks maybe.
That being said, Teague's contract is nasty.

Maybe just a Rozier & Brown + picks deal. I dunno.

I'd be happy just to sit on this roster + the 27 pick tbh
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: triboy16f on May 28, 2018, 12:44:59 AM
I'd consider something like Teague & KAT for Al, Rozier & picks maybe.
That being said, Teague's contract is nasty.

Maybe just a Rozier & Brown + picks deal. I dunno.

I'd be happy just to sit on this roster + the 27 pick tbh

in the short run

but eventually you will have to pay everybody .... and it is not possible

Either way ...Danny sticks with this roster OR grabs KAT for Horford, Brown, Rozier....Celts will have the same kind of chance to win it all next season. 

but for the future ...obtaining KAT would mean "set it and forget it".  Really bright future
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Beat LA on May 28, 2018, 12:48:45 AM
I've got it - Rozier for Justin Patton ;D.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: CelticsQuestFor18 on May 29, 2018, 12:02:04 PM
First off, I DON'T think KAT actually gets dealt this off-season.

That said, if we're speculating I think if a KAT deal is to be made, it has to be a 3-team trade. I don't think there's a straight up trade that makes sense for just the two sides, although KAT's salary is not an issue to match unlike that of Anthony Davis.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on May 29, 2018, 12:10:55 PM
I've got it - Rozier for Justin Patton ;D.

I've got a lot of stock in Justin Patton. I'm a big fan of his game.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: vjcsmoke on May 30, 2018, 07:34:51 PM
I think I would prefer KAT over Bagley, Jackson, or Bamba.

If the T-Wolves would accept a package for KAT, hopefully DA explores that conversation at least.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Beat LA on May 30, 2018, 07:46:55 PM
I've got it - Rozier for Justin Patton ;D.

I've got a lot of stock in Justin Patton. I'm a big fan of his game.

Same. Love that guy.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Boris Badenov on May 30, 2018, 08:42:24 PM
I've got it - Rozier for Justin Patton ;D.

I've got a lot of stock in Justin Patton. I'm a big fan of his game.

Same. Love that guy.

He averaged 9 steals per-36 last year. DPOY candidate.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Phantom255x on May 30, 2018, 08:44:08 PM
I've got it - Rozier for Justin Patton ;D.

I've got a lot of stock in Justin Patton. I'm a big fan of his game.

Same. Love that guy.

He averaged 9 steals per-36 last year. DPOY candidate.

Actually, LiAngelo Ball averaged about 36 steals per-36 this past year. He's the real DPOY candidate this upcoming year when he gets drafted by LAL.  :P
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Beat LA on May 30, 2018, 09:04:41 PM
I've got it - Rozier for Justin Patton ;D.

I've got a lot of stock in Justin Patton. I'm a big fan of his game.

Same. Love that guy.

He averaged 9 steals per-36 last year. DPOY candidate.

Right? ;) ::) ;D
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: ETNCeltics on May 30, 2018, 09:13:36 PM
I know it's a fantasy for some, but the Celtics aren't trading Kyrie.

Minnesota also isn't going to trade KAT without receiving a king's ransom, and we can't pay that. KAT isn't the kind of player you mortgage everything for, ala AD. Towns also isn't leaving Minny because he can get the extra bump since he made 3rd team all NBA.

Trading for Towns isn't plausible. Noxious as it might be, at least the Bamba trade ideas are.

Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on May 30, 2018, 10:05:20 PM
I've got it - Rozier for Justin Patton ;D.

I've got a lot of stock in Justin Patton. I'm a big fan of his game.

Same. Love that guy.

He averaged 9 steals per-36 last year. DPOY candidate.

Right? ;) ::) ;D

Patton's ceiling is not as high as KAT, but he has the same skill set and play type. He can score inside and outside with great efficiency. He is a good defender on the perimeter and inside. His rebounding instincts are lacking, but that's the only real weakness to his skillset (other than overall development and seasoning).

I think Rozier is a borderline All-star in the right situation, but even if he never reaches an All-star game, he is a legit two-way game-changer who can play at a high level in the playoffs.

And I would give up Rozier for Patton right now, even if they had the same contract situation.

Some players are just your guys, even without good reason. Patton is one of those players to me.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Beat LA on May 30, 2018, 10:19:27 PM
I've got it - Rozier for Justin Patton ;D.

I've got a lot of stock in Justin Patton. I'm a big fan of his game.

Same. Love that guy.

He averaged 9 steals per-36 last year. DPOY candidate.

Right? ;) ::) ;D

Patton's ceiling is not as high as KAT, but he has the same skill set and play type. He can score inside and outside with great efficiency. He is a good defender on the perimeter and inside. His rebounding instincts are lacking, but that's the only real weakness to his skillset (other than overall development and seasoning).

I think Rozier is a borderline All-star in the right situation, but even if he never reaches an All-star game, he is a legit two-way game-changer who can play at a high level in the playoffs.

And I would give up Rozier for Patton right now, even if they had the same contract situation.

Some players are just your guys, even without good reason. Patton is one of those players to me.

Lol, you don't have to sell me on Patton, man, and I'm with you all the way in terms of trading  for the guy regardless of contractual circumstances, plus, let's get him out of Minnesota before Thibs ruins his career ;D.

Additionally, JP has already bulked up, as evidenced by my viewing of his G League highlights during the past season, haha, but I actually like him much better than Towns, as he keeps the ball high on rebounds, is significantly quicker and faster than KAT, has a great motor, defensively, is an awesome passer, and his post game is already more advanced than probably 95% of guys in the NBA, imo. Dude's up-and-under is b1tch1n', lol ;D.

Have you seen any of his G League highlights, btw?
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on May 30, 2018, 11:16:34 PM
I've got it - Rozier for Justin Patton ;D.

I've got a lot of stock in Justin Patton. I'm a big fan of his game.

Same. Love that guy.

He averaged 9 steals per-36 last year. DPOY candidate.

Right? ;) ::) ;D

Patton's ceiling is not as high as KAT, but he has the same skill set and play type. He can score inside and outside with great efficiency. He is a good defender on the perimeter and inside. His rebounding instincts are lacking, but that's the only real weakness to his skillset (other than overall development and seasoning).

I think Rozier is a borderline All-star in the right situation, but even if he never reaches an All-star game, he is a legit two-way game-changer who can play at a high level in the playoffs.

And I would give up Rozier for Patton right now, even if they had the same contract situation.

Some players are just your guys, even without good reason. Patton is one of those players to me.

Lol, you don't have to sell me on Patton, man, and I'm with you all the way in terms of trading  for the guy regardless of contractual circumstances, plus, let's get him out of Minnesota before Thibs ruins his career ;D.

Additionally, JP has already bulked up, as evidenced by my viewing of his G League highlights during the past season, haha, but I actually like him much better than Towns, as he keeps the ball high on rebounds, is significantly quicker and faster than KAT, has a great motor, defensively, is an awesome passer, and his post game is already more advanced than probably 95% of guys in the NBA, imo. Dude's up-and-under is b1tch1n', lol ;D.

Have you seen any of his G League highlights, btw?

Good to hear I'm not alone in my unreasonable affection. He moves more and more like Jermaine O'neal with the weight he putting on.

His court vision at that level has been really impressive too.
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Beat LA on May 30, 2018, 11:43:52 PM
I've got it - Rozier for Justin Patton ;D.

I've got a lot of stock in Justin Patton. I'm a big fan of his game.

Same. Love that guy.

He averaged 9 steals per-36 last year. DPOY candidate.

Right? ;) ::) ;D

Patton's ceiling is not as high as KAT, but he has the same skill set and play type. He can score inside and outside with great efficiency. He is a good defender on the perimeter and inside. His rebounding instincts are lacking, but that's the only real weakness to his skillset (other than overall development and seasoning).

I think Rozier is a borderline All-star in the right situation, but even if he never reaches an All-star game, he is a legit two-way game-changer who can play at a high level in the playoffs.

And I would give up Rozier for Patton right now, even if they had the same contract situation.

Some players are just your guys, even without good reason. Patton is one of those players to me.

Lol, you don't have to sell me on Patton, man, and I'm with you all the way in terms of trading  for the guy regardless of contractual circumstances, plus, let's get him out of Minnesota before Thibs ruins his career ;D.

Additionally, JP has already bulked up, as evidenced by my viewing of his G League highlights during the past season, haha, but I actually like him much better than Towns, as he keeps the ball high on rebounds, is significantly quicker and faster than KAT, has a great motor, defensively, is an awesome passer, and his post game is already more advanced than probably 95% of guys in the NBA, imo. Dude's up-and-under is b1tch1n', lol ;D.

Have you seen any of his G League highlights, btw?

Good to hear I'm not alone in my unreasonable affection. He moves more and more like Jermaine O'neal with the weight he putting on.

His court vision at that level has been really impressive too.

Don't worry, csfansince60s is high on him, too, so you're not alone, haha, and I'd certainly be down for a better passing version of Jermaine O'Neal, although isn't that like 90% of KG? :o

I remember watching highlight videos of Patton's from college and one user on the YouTube ;D kept saying that JP was like a combination of Anthony Davis and Towns, and while I don't know as to whether or not Patton will ever be that good, I can certainly understand that guy's logic. The way that Patton takes the ball away from point guards :o, lol, is ridiculous, too ;D, so yeah, where do I sign? ;D

Not sure if Minnesota would go for it, though :'(, but they've already got Towns, Dieng, Gibson, and Bjelica, and besides, even with his Game 7 stinker, I'd take Rozier over Jeff Teague any day of the week and twice on Sunday ;D, but I seriously doubt that Thibs is that dumb. He can't be, right? Right? ;D
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: gouki88 on May 30, 2018, 11:58:25 PM
I've got it - Rozier for Justin Patton ;D.

I've got a lot of stock in Justin Patton. I'm a big fan of his game.

Same. Love that guy.

He averaged 9 steals per-36 last year. DPOY candidate.

Right? ;) ::) ;D

Patton's ceiling is not as high as KAT, but he has the same skill set and play type. He can score inside and outside with great efficiency. He is a good defender on the perimeter and inside. His rebounding instincts are lacking, but that's the only real weakness to his skillset (other than overall development and seasoning).

I think Rozier is a borderline All-star in the right situation, but even if he never reaches an All-star game, he is a legit two-way game-changer who can play at a high level in the playoffs.

And I would give up Rozier for Patton right now, even if they had the same contract situation.

Some players are just your guys, even without good reason. Patton is one of those players to me.

Lol, you don't have to sell me on Patton, man, and I'm with you all the way in terms of trading  for the guy regardless of contractual circumstances, plus, let's get him out of Minnesota before Thibs ruins his career ;D.

Additionally, JP has already bulked up, as evidenced by my viewing of his G League highlights during the past season, haha, but I actually like him much better than Towns, as he keeps the ball high on rebounds, is significantly quicker and faster than KAT, has a great motor, defensively, is an awesome passer, and his post game is already more advanced than probably 95% of guys in the NBA, imo. Dude's up-and-under is b1tch1n', lol ;D.

Have you seen any of his G League highlights, btw?

Good to hear I'm not alone in my unreasonable affection. He moves more and more like Jermaine O'neal with the weight he putting on.

His court vision at that level has been really impressive too.

Don't worry, csfansince60s is high on him, too, so you're not alone, haha, and I'd certainly be down for a better passing version of Jermaine O'Neal, although isn't that like 90% of KG? :o

I remember watching highlight videos of Patton's from college and one user on the YouTube ;D kept saying that JP was like a combination of Anthony Davis and Towns, and while I don't know as to whether or not Patton will ever be that good, I can certainly understand that guy's logic. The way that Patton takes the ball away from point guards :o, lol, is ridiculous, too ;D, so yeah, where do I sign? ;D

Not sure if Minnesota would go for it, though :'(, but they've already got Towns, Dieng, Gibson, and Bjelica, and besides, even with his Game 7 stinker, I'd take Rozier over Jeff Teague any day of the week and twice on Sunday ;D, but I seriously doubt that Thibs is that dumb. He can't be, right? Right? ;D
This is the most emojis I've ever seen in one post. Love it.

I have sort of started to like Justin Patton too. Like his athletic profile, and he seems well-rounded skill wise. And hey, Jermaine O'Neal took until his 5th year in the NBA to score over 4.5 points per game! The similarities are there ;)

If Patton mysteriously turns into a 20/10/2.5bpg guy in his 6th year, I'm all aboard nabbing him now!!
Title: Re: Whoa, Karl-Anthony Towns "Frustrated", Possibly To Be In Trade Talks
Post by: Beat LA on May 31, 2018, 12:11:38 AM
I've got it - Rozier for Justin Patton ;D.

I've got a lot of stock in Justin Patton. I'm a big fan of his game.

Same. Love that guy.

He averaged 9 steals per-36 last year. DPOY candidate.

Right? ;) ::) ;D

Patton's ceiling is not as high as KAT, but he has the same skill set and play type. He can score inside and outside with great efficiency. He is a good defender on the perimeter and inside. His rebounding instincts are lacking, but that's the only real weakness to his skillset (other than overall development and seasoning).

I think Rozier is a borderline All-star in the right situation, but even if he never reaches an All-star game, he is a legit two-way game-changer who can play at a high level in the playoffs.

And I would give up Rozier for Patton right now, even if they had the same contract situation.

Some players are just your guys, even without good reason. Patton is one of those players to me.

Lol, you don't have to sell me on Patton, man, and I'm with you all the way in terms of trading  for the guy regardless of contractual circumstances, plus, let's get him out of Minnesota before Thibs ruins his career ;D.

Additionally, JP has already bulked up, as evidenced by my viewing of his G League highlights during the past season, haha, but I actually like him much better than Towns, as he keeps the ball high on rebounds, is significantly quicker and faster than KAT, has a great motor, defensively, is an awesome passer, and his post game is already more advanced than probably 95% of guys in the NBA, imo. Dude's up-and-under is b1tch1n', lol ;D.

Have you seen any of his G League highlights, btw?

Good to hear I'm not alone in my unreasonable affection. He moves more and more like Jermaine O'neal with the weight he putting on.

His court vision at that level has been really impressive too.

Don't worry, csfansince60s is high on him, too, so you're not alone, haha, and I'd certainly be down for a better passing version of Jermaine O'Neal, although isn't that like 90% of KG? :o

I remember watching highlight videos of Patton's from college and one user on the YouTube ;D kept saying that JP was like a combination of Anthony Davis and Towns, and while I don't know as to whether or not Patton will ever be that good, I can certainly understand that guy's logic. The way that Patton takes the ball away from point guards :o, lol, is ridiculous, too ;D, so yeah, where do I sign? ;D

Not sure if Minnesota would go for it, though :'(, but they've already got Towns, Dieng, Gibson, and Bjelica, and besides, even with his Game 7 stinker, I'd take Rozier over Jeff Teague any day of the week and twice on Sunday ;D, but I seriously doubt that Thibs is that dumb. He can't be, right? Right? ;D
This is the most emojis I've ever seen in one post. Love it.

I have sort of started to like Justin Patton too. Like his athletic profile, and he seems well-rounded skill wise. And hey, Jermaine O'Neal took until his 5th year in the NBA to score over 4.5 points per game! The similarities are there ;)

If Patton mysteriously turns into a 20/10/2.5bpg guy in his 6th year, I'm all aboard nabbing him now!!

Lol, thanks. The only reason as to why Patton didn't play this year was due to a foot injury that he suffered during a workout, which might explain, well, as to how/why he slipped in the draft, and as a result Minnesota opted to let him heal and then get back into the flow of things, as it were, via the G League, so there are situational, not to mention athletic, differences, I think, in terms of comparing him to J.O., but yeah, I'm down, lol ;D.