CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: ChillyWilly on April 18, 2018, 12:45:14 PM
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Here’s some of what the anonymous coach said, via Arnovitz’s paraphrasing: “There are a lot of guys in our league doing a lot with limitations. How did Brad end up on the Mt. Rushmore of NBA coaches?” the coach asked. “I mean look, he’s done nicely, but last year you could argue he got outcoached by (Chicago Bulls head coach) Fred Hoiberg, coached by (Washington Wizards head coach) Scott Brooks to a draw, and then the (LeBron James) freight train or whatever. Yes, he started, they had to rebuild that process and he built a culture, and yes, it’s been nice. “But OK, each year they add — Oh, hey, here’s the best playmaking two-way big man in the league in Al Horford. Oh, here’s a steady stream of top-three picks. Guess what we have for you this year? (Gordon Hayward) went down? It’s OK, because you have the best shot-making point guard in the league (Kyrie Irving).”
But wait, there’s more. “The hagiography, deification of the holy Brad Stevens, can we just wait for a second?” Arnovitz said, paraphrasing the anonymous coach. “‘Can he just win more than one conference finals game? He’s got a lot of talent. He’s done well. We all respect him. We all steal from him, and everybody steals from everybody. Can you guys (the media) just cool it?”
Read more at: https://nesn.com/2018/04/anonymous-nba-is-coach-sick-of-all-the-hype-for-celtics-brad-stevens/
Thoughts? I think I'm calling BS as I can't see another NBA coach doing this they seem like a brotherhood. However if this is a true conversation he has with an NBA coach who's your guess?
Sounds like a Doc thing to say to me. He loves throwing people under the bus ;D
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Talk about whiny & petty. This "anonymous" coach sounds like a real dud.
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This is unreal if true. Sounds petty and jealous.
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Talk about whiny & petty. This "anonymous" coach sounds like a real dud.
Whole lot of ego and pride in the NBA. No surprise their is push back to St. Brad 8)
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I am sure it happened, and I'm sure it's not just this guy (the anon) feeling this way, and it is petty and whiny.
The Whiny Coach kind of has his cake and eats it too. The Celtics Org does provide Brad Stevens with some good top tier talent by way of top 5 picks, trades, and free agents.
But Brad Stevens because of injuries etc is also forced to start Rozier, to give Ojeleye serious minutes, to play Shane Larkin, Nader, Kadeem Allen. None of those guys were supposed to be above replacement level players. Jaylen Brown was supposed to be a year or two away. Jayson Tatum is a rookie, has no business playing like he is.
Now I'm sure some of that is due to Danny finding the right guys. But a large part of it is Brad Stevens getting his guys to give more than anyone expected them to.
Also, I bet the whiny coach was Jason Kidd. Arnovitz did say that this was said to him before Irving went down. Jason Kidd seems like a whiny little man child.
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Obviously whiny and petty, but I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of coaches actually felt that way. Brad definitely has risen the respect ranks very quickly and without much real playoff success (even with the 2 wins this year, he is just 13-17 in the playoffs and has never finished a playoff run above .500).
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Yeah Kidd/Rivers were the first names that jumped to my mind.
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Doc for sure.
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Y'all are forgetting how Brad has coached some journeymen to huge deals...
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I mean, show me the coach on "Mt. Rushmore" who got there without good players.
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I mean, show me the coach on "Mt. Rushmore" who got there without good players.
Lenny Wilkens?
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I will kind of agree with the idea that the media heaps a little too much love on Stevens.
I think Stevens has been a miracle. The team has overachieved every season he's been here. He's my coach of the year. I wouldn't trade him for any other coach in the league right now. I hope he's here for a long time and I feel really good about him winning multiple championships in the NBA.
But the media does not typically heap the kind of praise on a coach (or anyone) that Stevens has enjoyed unless they've won multiple rings. It's at a point where I wonder when are the players going to start getting their due?
I'm splitting hair here because I do think Stevens deserves the praise but I think it's also true that there are coaches like Spoelstra or Carlisle who have won rings and still don't get the kind of credit Brad is given. So I get where this guy is coming from, even if it is pretty.
Also, this is almost definitely an assistant coach, right?
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Obviously whiny and petty, but I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of coaches actually felt that way. Brad definitely has risen the respect ranks very quickly and without much real playoff success (even with the 2 wins this year, he is just 13-17 in the playoffs and has never finished a playoff run above .500).
By and large, this take is not as hot as people may think it is. To me, the "Brad is the second greatest coach in the NBA" is similar to the "Doc is a great coach to play for" sentiment.
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Is it a current coach? Because it sounds like Mark Jackson.
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Brad would be the first person to admit that he gets too much praise.
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I wonder if Pitino or Calipari could generously be called "an NBA coach"
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Come on... he had no playoff material for years and this year his top players got injured.. and he delivered.. would like to know the name... anyway.. he finds the strength of everyone... look where Thomas Crowder Crawford are now...
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I am sure it happened, and I'm sure it's not just this guy (the anon) feeling this way, and it is petty and whiny.
The Whiny Coach kind of has his cake and eats it too. The Celtics Org does provide Brad Stevens with some good top tier talent by way of top 5 picks, trades, and free agents.
But Brad Stevens because of injuries etc is also forced to start Rozier, to give Ojeleye serious minutes, to play Shane Larkin, Nader, Kadeem Allen. None of those guys were supposed to be above replacement level players. Jaylen Brown was supposed to be a year or two away. Jayson Tatum is a rookie, has no business playing like he is.
Now I'm sure some of that is due to Danny finding the right guys. But a large part of it is Brad Stevens getting his guys to give more than anyone expected them to.
Also, I bet the whiny coach was Jason Kidd. Arnovitz did say that this was said to him before Irving went down. Jason Kidd seems like a whiny little man child.
Let's also consider that certain former Cs haven't done as well since leaving Boston, especially Evan Turner and Jae Crowder.
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Brad would be the first person to admit that he gets too much praise.
Plot twist this is Stevens calling it in himself to downgrade and downplay his coaching ability, just so he can come off as more humble lol.
I am sure it happened, and I'm sure it's not just this guy (the anon) feeling this way, and it is petty and whiny.
The Whiny Coach kind of has his cake and eats it too. The Celtics Org does provide Brad Stevens with some good top tier talent by way of top 5 picks, trades, and free agents.
But Brad Stevens because of injuries etc is also forced to start Rozier, to give Ojeleye serious minutes, to play Shane Larkin, Nader, Kadeem Allen. None of those guys were supposed to be above replacement level players. Jaylen Brown was supposed to be a year or two away. Jayson Tatum is a rookie, has no business playing like he is.
Now I'm sure some of that is due to Danny finding the right guys. But a large part of it is Brad Stevens getting his guys to give more than anyone expected them to.
Also, I bet the whiny coach was Jason Kidd. Arnovitz did say that this was said to him before Irving went down. Jason Kidd seems like a whiny little man child.
Let's also consider that certain former Cs haven't done as well since leaving Boston, especially Evan Turner and Jae Crowder.
Different situations and scenarios. I think Crowder is loving it up in the Jazz though. He's the perfect complimentary role player for them.
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If you're going to talk, at least have the balls to put your name on it. I don't have a lot of use for this anonymous noise.
This is relayed by Kevin Arnovitz, by the way. He's a writer who lives in LA and probably spends more time on the Clippers than any other NBA team. Just saying. That's not positive ID, but it is an interesting coincidence.
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Cut the grass, and reveal the snakes 😉
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Could all be fake news or one of the assistants.
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On the flip side, by slighting Stevens this anonymous coach is basically giving huge praise to Ainge.
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Maybe it is a coach of team worried about competing with those end of the bench Vets that like to go to winning teams with popular coaches.
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Biggest thing about coaching is adapting to changing team and its needs. Brad has been so [dang] good this year with all the injuries that lead to changing lineups and rookies getting burn.
Really excited to see what he can do when all of the elite talent is on the floor next year.
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Cut the grass, and reveal the snakes 😉
Burn the grass, no more snakes...
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for some reason i want to say Doc, i still appreciate him but something about it sounds like Doc...the fact that he bolted during a rebuild and now our team is definitely out performing his team and growing better than the Clips, it just sounds like jealousy
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Who the **** paraphrases someone using the words "hagiography" and "deification"?
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Obviously whiny and petty, but I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of coaches actually felt that way. Brad definitely has risen the respect ranks very quickly and without much real playoff success (even with the 2 wins this year, he is just 13-17 in the playoffs and has never finished a playoff run above .500).
I am not sure if you are being serious with this. In his second season he somehow coached a team that had no business being in the playoffs against the Cleveland Cavs. He started Brandon Bass, Bradley, Evan Turner, Smart and Tyler freaking Zeller. You are going to hold it against him for not winning a game that series? The next season the starting lineups were
Isiah Thomas (new to the roster)
Jae Crowder
Evan Turner
Amir Johnson
Jonas Jerekbro
Versus
Ken Bazemore
Kyle Korver
Jeff Teague
Paul Milsap
Al Horford
You hold it against him that he only made that series go 6 games?
You have a lot of takes. This is certainly one of them.
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Its not just the medua that loves Stevens.
"He is a special person -- and that's on and off the court," Popovich said. "He's very intelligent. And intelligence is fine, but if it doesn't come along with incisiveness, judgment and an emotional maturity, it doesn't do you much good. And he has all of those things. And that's large. Not that many people have that. It shows in the way he handles people and the way he coaches. He's going to be a great one before it's all over with. And he's already a hell of a coach."
http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/10/gregg_popovich_boston_celtics_1.html
Pops I guess didn't feel the need to be anonymous
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Obviously whiny and petty, but I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of coaches actually felt that way. Brad definitely has risen the respect ranks very quickly and without much real playoff success (even with the 2 wins this year, he is just 13-17 in the playoffs and has never finished a playoff run above .500).
I am not sure if you are being serious with this. In his second season he somehow coached a team that had no business being in the playoffs against the Cleveland Cavs. He started Brandon Bass, Bradley, Evan Turner, Smart and Tyler freaking Zeller. You are going to hold it against him for not winning a game that series? The next season the starting lineups were
Isiah Thomas (new to the roster)
Jae Crowder
Evan Turner
Amir Johnson
Jonas Jerekbro
Versus
Ken Bazemore
Kyle Korver
Jeff Teague
Paul Milsap
Al Horford
You hold it against him that he only made that series go 6 games?
You have a lot of takes. This is certainly one of them.
Not to nitpick but Isaiah was a midseason addition the first playoff year, though he did come off the bench. He had a full season under his belt when we lost to the Hawks. Then his nuclear season last year.
I wouldn't be surprised if some other coaches grumble about Stevens' growing rep, but it's not for getting swept with a team that had no business making the playoffs to begin with. He's overachieved every single year, including this one - even our one bad year we probably should've been worse.
Literally all he hasn't done as a coach is like win 60 games, be competitive in an ECF, get to Finals, win ring. That's a pretty darn short list for a guy in his 5th year who started with one of the worst rosters in the league and has dealt with as much roster turnover than probably any coach in history.
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Obviously whiny and petty, but I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of coaches actually felt that way. Brad definitely has risen the respect ranks very quickly and without much real playoff success (even with the 2 wins this year, he is just 13-17 in the playoffs and has never finished a playoff run above .500).
They shouldn't have even made the playoffs 4 years ago yet they did, and 3 years ago lost Bradley in Game 1 in that ATL series (which they then lost in 6 games w/o him). I mean come on, give him a break.. and what do you mean "finished a playoff run above .500"? So what's more important, that statistic or a team making a conference final appearance? I'd say the latter sticks more.
So by your logic I guess we should just put Tyronn Lue up on Mt. Rushmore.
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Literally all he hasn't done as a coach is like win 60 games, be competitive in an ECF, get to Finals, win ring. That's a pretty darn short list for a guy in his 5th year who started with one of the worst rosters in the league and has dealt with as much roster turnover than probably any coach in history.
I will maintain to my dying day when they carve his face onto Mt Rushmore that his greatest accomplishment wasn't 12 straight titles, 4 presidential terms, or defeating the Balrog that broke through the floor of the Las Vegas ThunderDome in 2025. No Brad's greatest accomplishment was getting Evan Freaking Turner PAID so much [dang] money.
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Literally all he hasn't done as a coach is like win 60 games, be competitive in an ECF, get to Finals, win ring. That's a pretty darn short list for a guy in his 5th year who started with one of the worst rosters in the league and has dealt with as much roster turnover than probably any coach in history.
I will maintain to my dying day when they carve his face onto Mt Rushmore that his greatest accomplishment wasn't 12 straight titles, 4 presidential terms, or defeating the Balrog that broke through the floor of the Las Vegas ThunderDome in 2025. No Brad's greatest accomplishment was getting Evan Freaking Turner PAID so much [dang] money.
Was just talking about that with a buddy last night - from $6 million over 2 years as a last-chance, nearly out of the league deal, to $70 million over 4. Brad deserves an agent's commission for that.
The other insane accomplishment was more short-term, but getting Jordan freaking Crawford to win a Player of the Week is pretty amazing too. And he even got Sully one the same year! TWO players of the week, both out of the league within 3 years, for a 25 win team. Nuts.
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Obviously whiny and petty, but I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of coaches actually felt that way. Brad definitely has risen the respect ranks very quickly and without much real playoff success (even with the 2 wins this year, he is just 13-17 in the playoffs and has never finished a playoff run above .500).
They shouldn't have even made the playoffs 4 years ago yet they did, and 3 years ago lost Bradley in Game 1 in that ATL series (which they then lost in 6 games w/o him). I mean come on, give him a break.. and what do you mean "finished a playoff run above .500"? So what's more important, that statistic or a team making a conference final appearance? I'd say the latter sticks more.
So by your logic I guess we should just put Tyronn Lue up on Mt. Rushmore.
yea this is what i said but with those playoff rosters. That was insane
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Phil Jackson is my bet.
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This anonymous coach is retarded.
If anything Stevens isn't getting ENOUGH credit or push for Coach of the Year honors.
No team has had to deal with more injuries at VARIOUS parts of the year than the Celtics and to say we have a lot of talent is the worst excuse ever.
Even with Kyrie and Hayward we aren't as top heavy as say the Rockets, OKC, or even Toronto and the Cavs.
What we do have is a bunch of very good players who are coached excellently and play TOGETHER and for ONE ANOTHER and that's what a TRUE team is suppose to do.
Our guys don't quit and play till the very end.
Stevens sets up each player to be their most effective within the team construct and he deserves a lot of credit....knowing when to bring the Zone Defense and playing the right guys off the bench etc.
Sad part is this year they will give the award to that Rocket's coach who was horrible in NY and basically needs a gimmick offense to win in the regular season.
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Here’s some of what the anonymous coach said, via Arnovitz’s paraphrasing: “There are a lot of guys in our league doing a lot with limitations. How did Brad end up on the Mt. Rushmore of NBA coaches?” the coach asked. “I mean look, he’s done nicely, but last year you could argue he got outcoached by (Chicago Bulls head coach) Fred Hoiberg, coached by (Washington Wizards head coach) Scott Brooks to a draw, and then the (LeBron James) freight train or whatever. Yes, he started, they had to rebuild that process and he built a culture, and yes, it’s been nice. “But OK, each year they add — Oh, hey, here’s the best playmaking two-way big man in the league in Al Horford. Oh, here’s a steady stream of top-three picks. Guess what we have for you this year? (Gordon Hayward) went down? It’s OK, because you have the best shot-making point guard in the league (Kyrie Irving).”
But wait, there’s more. “The hagiography, deification of the holy Brad Stevens, can we just wait for a second?” Arnovitz said, paraphrasing the anonymous coach. “‘Can he just win more than one conference finals game? He’s got a lot of talent. He’s done well. We all respect him. We all steal from him, and everybody steals from everybody. Can you guys (the media) just cool it?”
Read more at: https://nesn.com/2018/04/anonymous-nba-is-coach-sick-of-all-the-hype-for-celtics-brad-stevens/
Thoughts? I think I'm calling BS as I can't see another NBA coach doing this they seem like a brotherhood. However if this is a true conversation he has with an NBA coach who's your guess?
Sounds like a Doc thing to say to me. He loves throwing people under the bus ;D
Doc does not know what hagiography means.
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Not gonna lie... I had to google "hagiography"
8 years of Catholic schooling too. :P
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I dont think the guy is wrong, BS does probably get a little more hype than he deserves. Doesnt mean hes not the best coach or top 3 or 5 or whatever, but he should probably prove it by winning something before we give it to him.
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Actually seeing the alleged coach may provide the answer as to why this was said.
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Just listened to the Lowe Post where this was said,
http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=23116874 (starts a little after the 55 minute mark for anyone who wants to actually hear it).
I don't think it was a head coach. Arnovitz said, "I had a really interesting conversation with a member of a coaching staff that I respect immensely..." (and to me personally I thought Arnovitz was saying he respected the coaching staff immensely, not necessarily this member of the staff he was actually speaking with, but that's open to interpretation). Anyway, if it was a head coach, I think Arnovitz would have just "coach" or "head coach" not "member of a coaching staff."
Considering how many assistants there are out there who have been grinding for years, and have yet to even sniff a head coaching job, and are maybe 5, 10, 15 years older than Stevens, let's just say I can see the possibility for a lot of sour grapes.
But actually, after actually listening to Arnovitz say it, I don't even think it sounded that much like sour grapes, more like "I think Stevens is great, but people are talking about him like he's already the greatest coach of all time, let's reel it in a little here." Similar to a possible sentiment like "Tatum is great, but some people act like he's going to be the greatest Celtic of all time, let's see him accomplish a little more before we put up his statue outside the Garden."
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could be any nunmber of LOSER guys .....all the REAL coachs respect CBS alot as well as GM
SOUR GRAPES ... ::)
Ill go with Kidd .....somebody who can't keep a job or coach worth a [dang] Maybe anyone of the Kings dozen coaches or Nuggets or Suns coaches. or a 100 different assistant coaches that are stuck in a dung hole like Cleveland organization. Even the head coach of Bucks looks like whiner.
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They said the same of Larry Brown when he took a band of no names in Detroit to Two straight NBA Finals winning 1 ring....
#### this Guy! And the horse he rode in on.........
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Here’s some of what the anonymous coach said, via Arnovitz’s paraphrasing: “There are a lot of guys in our league doing a lot with limitations. How did Brad end up on the Mt. Rushmore of NBA coaches?” the coach asked. “I mean look, he’s done nicely, but last year you could argue he got outcoached by (Chicago Bulls head coach) Fred Hoiberg, coached by (Washington Wizards head coach) Scott Brooks to a draw, and then the (LeBron James) freight train or whatever. Yes, he started, they had to rebuild that process and he built a culture, and yes, it’s been nice. “But OK, each year they add — Oh, hey, here’s the best playmaking two-way big man in the league in Al Horford. Oh, here’s a steady stream of top-three picks. Guess what we have for you this year? (Gordon Hayward) went down? It’s OK, because you have the best shot-making point guard in the league (Kyrie Irving).”
But wait, there’s more. “The hagiography, deification of the holy Brad Stevens, can we just wait for a second?” Arnovitz said, paraphrasing the anonymous coach. “‘Can he just win more than one conference finals game? He’s got a lot of talent. He’s done well. We all respect him. We all steal from him, and everybody steals from everybody. Can you guys (the media) just cool it?”
Read more at: https://nesn.com/2018/04/anonymous-nba-is-coach-sick-of-all-the-hype-for-celtics-brad-stevens/
Thoughts? I think I'm calling BS as I can't see another NBA coach doing this they seem like a brotherhood. However if this is a true conversation he has with an NBA coach who's your guess?
Sounds like a Doc thing to say to me. He loves throwing people under the bus ;D
Doc does not know what hagiography means.
I was getting ready to do a deep forensic dive to figure out who it was (why I proposed Mark Jackson earlier in the thread), but then I realized it was Arnovitz paraphrasing on a podcast, not a print quote. So the exact terminology could have come from Arnovitz.
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Brad didnt have any talent when he made the playoffs his first two years.
Al Horford isnt a scorer... He's not traditonal talent. Got the 1st seed anyway.
Kyrie missed 22 games.
This coach is massively jealous.
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Al Horford isnt a scorer... He's not traditonal talent. Got the 1st seed anyway.
Those two seem related... not.
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I think using his playoff record is a poor indicator.
he had no talent the first two years he made the playoffs and they faced the cavs in the first round both years. Last years team certainly overachieved as you saw how they got steamrolled over by the cavs. But they still made the ECF
now, we are up 2-0 in a series playing guys like Rozier/Tatum/Brown putting up big numbers. Before the first game the nba analysts were saying it wouldnt be an upset for the celtics to lose.
lets see what Brad can do next year when you have tatum/Brown with more development and add two all-stars in Irving/Hayward to the mix. I think it will be beautiful to watch.
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I think using his playoff record is a poor indicator.
he had no talent the first two years he made the playoffs and they faced the cavs in the first round both years. Last years team certainly overachieved as you saw how they got steamrolled over by the cavs. But they still made the ECF
now, we are up 2-0 in a series playing guys like Rozier/Tatum/Brown putting up big numbers. Before the first game the nba analysts were saying it wouldnt be an upset for the celtics to lose.
lets see what Brad can do next year when you have tatum/Brown with more development and add two all-stars in Irving/Hayward to the mix. I think it will be beautiful to watch.
I think only one person was trying to argue about his playoff record being relevant and they have been properly skewered for the ridiculous take.
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It's obvious that Danny is building up Brad's value because he plans to trade him for a first in 2018
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I think using his playoff record is a poor indicator.
he had no talent the first two years he made the playoffs and they faced the cavs in the first round both years. Last years team certainly overachieved as you saw how they got steamrolled over by the cavs. But they still made the ECF
now, we are up 2-0 in a series playing guys like Rozier/Tatum/Brown putting up big numbers. Before the first game the nba analysts were saying it wouldnt be an upset for the celtics to lose.
lets see what Brad can do next year when you have tatum/Brown with more development and add two all-stars in Irving/Hayward to the mix. I think it will be beautiful to watch.
I think only one person was trying to argue about his playoff record being relevant and they have been properly skewered for the ridiculous take.
I lol'd