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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Big333223 on March 15, 2018, 11:19:56 AM

Title: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: Big333223 on March 15, 2018, 11:19:56 AM
With no Kyrie, Horford, Brown, or Smart (or Hayward), last night Jayson Tatum was thrown into the deep end. How'd he do?

He was aggressive. He took a team high 23 shots, which I liked. He made only 9 of those shots and was 0-2 from 3, which is not good. More crucially, for this game, he went 1-3 from the FT line. Tatum is an 82% FT shooter on the season and if he had gone 2-3 from the line last night, the C's would've won the game. We've seen Tatum make clutch plays in the past so I'm not worried about the sky falling. Heck, the second FT he missed came after a clutch drive to the basket and finish through Gortat's foul. So there's only so hard I can complain.

6 assists and 2 turnovers. Only Rozier finished with more assists last night. Tatum had not done much playmaking for others this season, which I've attributed to his place in the offense and finding his way as a rookie. This game was heartening from that respect as he took on the challenge and was able to find teammates last night.

I wasn't blown away by the performance but I think he did a lot of good things and I'm encouraged. I'd be more encouraged if he had hit his FT's but we can't have everything.
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: gift on March 15, 2018, 11:39:01 AM
I'm not worried long term, but one benefit top picks usually have when they go to bad teams is that they've already been in the position Tatum was in several times by this point in the season. In some ways, this was another opening night for Tatum. And he still managed to impress while showing much room for improvement.
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: kozlodoev on March 15, 2018, 11:47:55 AM
It seemed like every time I looked at the game he was getting stuffed. Also, just 19 pts on 23 shots is abysmal. Not one of his greatest nights, but that's what a rookie looks like without training wheels.
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: Big333223 on March 15, 2018, 11:50:01 AM
It seemed like every time I looked at the game he was getting stuffed. Also, just 19 pts on 23 shots is abysmal. Not one of his greatest nights, but that's what a rookie looks like without training wheels.

This is true. On a lot of his drives he looks like he just isn't strong enough yet. In 2 years when he's filled out, I expect him to be a monster going to the rim.
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: celticinorlando on March 15, 2018, 11:50:22 AM
Made some really bad decisions late in the game and in OT....missed 2 big free throws...made a nice play to tie it late

He is a rook...growing pains
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 15, 2018, 11:51:02 AM
The 2nd half of the season for him has been dissapointing.

He is awful protecting the ball on the way to the basket and has made tons of mental mistakes.

That said, he's clearly very talented and I think he's going to be a force to be reckoned with next year when he tightens up the looser bits of his game.
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: Alleyoopster on March 15, 2018, 12:03:11 PM
With his keen dribbling skills and the Celtics players' high basketball IQ it's probably just a matter of time when his passing skills will improve too. In the 2nd half it appeared a second player always came to assist on defending him whenever he went to drive the lane. Once Brad and the team develop schemes to beat this defense he should be finding more players open for easy baskets. (at least that how it works in my mind. ; )

I wonder if Brad ever thought of using the old 2-3 screens in-the-lane play that Doc used to free up Ray Allen would work for Jayson? Ray used to have to fight hard on those plays.     
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: fairweatherfan on March 15, 2018, 12:46:46 PM
Tatum is already a problem out there, which is great. It's just that he alternates which team he's a problem for.

Bottom line, can't deny the talent, and I'm not too worried about the mental mistakes becoming habitual.  If we have to lean on him too much this year we're in trouble, but I'm very optimistic about next.
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: celticsclay on March 15, 2018, 12:50:45 PM
It seemed like every time I looked at the game he was getting stuffed. Also, just 19 pts on 23 shots is abysmal. Not one of his greatest nights, but that's what a rookie looks like without training wheels.

This is true. On a lot of his drives he looks like he just isn't strong enough yet. In 2 years when he's filled out, I expect him to be a monster going to the rim.

This is what I feel too.
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: PhoSita on March 15, 2018, 02:44:42 PM
Last night we got a glimpse of what Tatum would have been like playing top scoring option for a bad lottery team for his whole rookie season.

High volume, low efficiency, tantalizing potential.


Tatum is such an elusive, graceful, composed offensive player.  He'll need to get to the line more often once he takes on a larger offensive role.  But that will be easier once he builds up his strength to match his frame.
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: CelticsElite on March 15, 2018, 03:37:24 PM
Itís clear he has the tools and bbiq. Get more athleticism and strength and we might have pierce/Carmelo hybrid
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: Monkhouse on March 15, 2018, 03:44:00 PM
Last night we got a glimpse of what Tatum would have been like playing top scoring option for a bad lottery team for his whole rookie season.

High volume, low efficiency, tantalizing potential.


Tatum is such an elusive, graceful, composed offensive player.  He'll need to get to the line more often once he takes on a larger offensive role.  But that will be easier once he builds up his strength to match his frame.

TP.

Pretty much my thoughts exactly.

I was disappointed with how many times he got swatted, but at least he didn't waiver or lose confidence and kept going. There were times where he absorbed some contact, but was unable to end the play in a resulting free throw attempts, or finish strong. Once he gets more experience and improves his body, man the NBA is gonna have to watch out!
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: kozlodoev on March 15, 2018, 03:56:04 PM
Tatum is such an elusive, graceful, composed offensive player.  He'll need to get to the line more often once he takes on a larger offensive role.  But that will be easier once he builds up his strength to match his frame.
That play on which he got the two FTs (which he split) in the end of regulation was a thing of beauty.
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 15, 2018, 04:16:08 PM
Tatum is such an elusive, graceful, composed offensive player.  He'll need to get to the line more often once he takes on a larger offensive role.  But that will be easier once he builds up his strength to match his frame.
That play on which he got the two FTs (which he split) in the end of regulation was a thing of beauty.
He made so many beautiful plays over the course of the game.

Id say almost all of his 9 made field goals were highlight worthy.
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: kozlodoev on March 15, 2018, 04:40:18 PM
Tatum is such an elusive, graceful, composed offensive player.  He'll need to get to the line more often once he takes on a larger offensive role.  But that will be easier once he builds up his strength to match his frame.
That play on which he got the two FTs (which he split) in the end of regulation was a thing of beauty.
He made so many beautiful plays over the course of the game.

Id say almost all of his 9 made field goals were highlight worthy.
He has that thing where he can lull you to sleep for a split second and pounce at the same time that you just can't teach. Very optimistic about having him down the road.
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: SHAQATTACK on March 15, 2018, 06:22:56 PM
I'm not complaining one bit ...Im stoked...pretty amazing for a guy so young .   He is getting a super headstart at Boston , he gets to learn and unlike other clubs .....he gets to,learn the RIGHT way to play while he learns.

By next sason Tatum will be playing like he has been in the league 5 years. 

Next year should really be fun with Hayward , Tatum and Brown
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: Wretch on March 15, 2018, 09:22:23 PM
I'm not complaining one bit ...Im stoked...pretty amazing for a guy so young .   He is getting a super headstart at Boston , he gets to learn and unlike other clubs .....he gets to,learn the RIGHT way to play while he learns.

By next sason Tatum will be playing like he has been in the league 5 years. 

Next year should really be fun with Hayward , Tatum and Brown
Kyrie and Al getting traded? 😀 That is a scary core.
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on March 15, 2018, 09:22:29 PM
I'm a little concerned at how many times he is blocked when he is trying to create for himself. However, I think with more reps in figuring out his spots and increased core strength and athleticism that issue will take care of itself.
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 15, 2018, 10:03:36 PM
I'm a little concerned at how many times he is blocked when he is trying to create for himself. However, I think with more reps in figuring out his spots and increased core strength and athleticism that issue will take care of itself.
It's equal parts strength and a total inability to protect the ball when going to the hole.

Luckily, those things are exactly the type of thing you expect to improve with time. By this time next year I don't expect it to be a problem at all.
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: Surferdad on March 16, 2018, 08:01:33 AM
I'm a little concerned at how many times he is blocked when he is trying to create for himself. However, I think with more reps in figuring out his spots and increased core strength and athleticism that issue will take care of itself.
It's equal parts strength and a total inability to protect the ball when going to the hole.

Luckily, those things are exactly the type of thing you expect to improve with time. By this time next year I don't expect it to be a problem at all.
That's a bit of hyperbole.  Tatum generally does a good job at protecting the ball on his drives using his long arms to keep it away or cupping it tight to his body when needed.  However, he's a rookie and hasn't perfected these skills yet.
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: trickybilly on March 16, 2018, 09:28:24 AM
Last night we got a glimpse of what Tatum would have been like playing top scoring option for a bad lottery team for his whole rookie season.

High volume, low efficiency, tantalizing potential.


Tatum is such an elusive, graceful, composed offensive player.  He'll need to get to the line more often once he takes on a larger offensive role.  But that will be easier once he builds up his strength to match his frame.

That finger roll put back a couple games ago  :-* :o :-*
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 16, 2018, 09:28:58 AM
I'm a little concerned at how many times he is blocked when he is trying to create for himself. However, I think with more reps in figuring out his spots and increased core strength and athleticism that issue will take care of itself.
It's equal parts strength and a total inability to protect the ball when going to the hole.

Luckily, those things are exactly the type of thing you expect to improve with time. By this time next year I don't expect it to be a problem at all.
That's a bit of hyperbole.  Tatum generally does a good job at protecting the ball on his drives using his long arms to keep it away or cupping it tight to his body when needed.  However, he's a rookie and hasn't perfected these skills yet.
I don't think it's hyperbole. He is really bad at it.
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: Surferdad on March 16, 2018, 09:36:08 AM
I'm a little concerned at how many times he is blocked when he is trying to create for himself. However, I think with more reps in figuring out his spots and increased core strength and athleticism that issue will take care of itself.
It's equal parts strength and a total inability to protect the ball when going to the hole.

Luckily, those things are exactly the type of thing you expect to improve with time. By this time next year I don't expect it to be a problem at all.
That's a bit of hyperbole.  Tatum generally does a good job at protecting the ball on his drives using his long arms to keep it away or cupping it tight to his body when needed.  However, he's a rookie and hasn't perfected these skills yet.
I don't think it's hyperbole. He is really bad at it.
Jayson Tatum is 350th in the NBA in turnovers per 36 minutes at 1.5 per 36.
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: KGBirdBias on March 16, 2018, 09:36:51 AM
Tatum will learn that those finger rolls aren't going to work. By next year he'll put on weight and instead of jumping off one foot, he'll be jumping off two feet and those will be dunks. He's just not strong enough yet.

I liked his aggressiveness and look forward to seeing more of it while everyone is down.
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 16, 2018, 09:54:14 AM
I'm a little concerned at how many times he is blocked when he is trying to create for himself. However, I think with more reps in figuring out his spots and increased core strength and athleticism that issue will take care of itself.
It's equal parts strength and a total inability to protect the ball when going to the hole.

Luckily, those things are exactly the type of thing you expect to improve with time. By this time next year I don't expect it to be a problem at all.
That's a bit of hyperbole.  Tatum generally does a good job at protecting the ball on his drives using his long arms to keep it away or cupping it tight to his body when needed.  However, he's a rookie and hasn't perfected these skills yet.
I don't think it's hyperbole. He is really bad at it.
Jayson Tatum is 350th in the NBA in turnovers per 36 minutes at 1.5 per 36.
Most of them go in the books as blocked shots or simple misses.
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on March 16, 2018, 10:28:22 AM
I'm a little concerned at how many times he is blocked when he is trying to create for himself. However, I think with more reps in figuring out his spots and increased core strength and athleticism that issue will take care of itself.
It's equal parts strength and a total inability to protect the ball when going to the hole.

Luckily, those things are exactly the type of thing you expect to improve with time. By this time next year I don't expect it to be a problem at all.
That's a bit of hyperbole.  Tatum generally does a good job at protecting the ball on his drives using his long arms to keep it away or cupping it tight to his body when needed.  However, he's a rookie and hasn't perfected these skills yet.
I don't think it's hyperbole. He is really bad at it.
Jayson Tatum is 350th in the NBA in turnovers per 36 minutes at 1.5 per 36.
Most of them go in the books as blocked shots or simple misses.

Most of them are blocked shots, not strips when he is going up.
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: chilidawg on March 16, 2018, 10:45:48 AM
I'm a little concerned at how many times he is blocked when he is trying to create for himself. However, I think with more reps in figuring out his spots and increased core strength and athleticism that issue will take care of itself.
It's equal parts strength and a total inability to protect the ball when going to the hole.

Luckily, those things are exactly the type of thing you expect to improve with time. By this time next year I don't expect it to be a problem at all.
That's a bit of hyperbole.  Tatum generally does a good job at protecting the ball on his drives using his long arms to keep it away or cupping it tight to his body when needed.  However, he's a rookie and hasn't perfected these skills yet.
I don't think it's hyperbole. He is really bad at it.
Jayson Tatum is 350th in the NBA in turnovers per 36 minutes at 1.5 per 36.
Most of them go in the books as blocked shots or simple misses.

Most of them are blocked shots, not strips when he is going up.

He leads the team in shots blocked, with 56.  The other two guys who go to the hoop a lot (measured by shooting fouls drawn and and one's) are Brown and Irving.   They have 47 and 46 shots blocked respectively.  So Tatum gets his shot blocked more, but it's not that much more than those other guys.   I agree that he'll get better as he adds some strength.  Could be a monster next year.
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: Monkhouse on March 16, 2018, 12:15:36 PM
Labrd333:
Quote
Had Tatum been drafted by a typical bottomfeeder team, these are the types of stats I'd expect him to put up. He's a 19/20 year old rookie with clear gifts. On a bad team, he'd be less efficient, but he'd be putting up more stats. Tonight was a perfect example of that.

Tonight in the close loss he had 19 points, 6 assists and 5 rebounds with 9-23 shooting (39%).

I've said it before, but Tatum genuinely reminds me a lot rookie Kevin Durant. As a rookie, Durant averaged 20.3 points, 4.4 rebounds and 2.4 assists, but he wasn't efficient. He took 17 field goal attempts per game for a bottomfeeder Seattle team. He only shot 43% for the season and 29% from three. There were plenty of games during that 20 win season that Durant put up total clunkers... 7-22 against Denver, 7-21 against Utah, 7-20 against Detroit, 7-22 against the Hornets, 7-21 against Washington, 6-23 against the Lakers, 7-21 against Atlanta, 7-21 against the Knicks, 2-17 against Houston, etc.

I'm sure Tatum's overall efficiency this season (crazy 47%/43%/83% shooting) is impacted by playing on a quality team in a limited role where he takes less than 10 shots per game. But no doubt, if the guy was playing on a bad team he'd be getting more shot attempts. Just like Durant, he'd have some good games and some bad games with some overall rough efficiency, but the kid would come close to averaging 20 per game.

Personally, I loved seeing Tatum get a bunch of attempts tonight even though we came up short. He needs these kind of reps. These are the kind of reps he can't get when everyone on this team is healthy. The outcome wasn't great, but it's a great learning experience. Kid has a chance to be really special.

I attached the link below, but it's good to see LarBrd33 is still alive and well. There are also some engaging and interesting statistics compared for previous player comparisons.

https://www.reddit.com/r/bostonceltics/comments/84k9a2/tonight_was_a_nice_example_of_what_tatum_would/#bottom-comments
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: flybono on March 17, 2018, 08:43:30 PM
With no Kyrie, Horford, Brown, or Smart (or Hayward), last night Jayson Tatum was thrown into the deep end. How'd he do?

He was aggressive. He took a team high 23 shots, which I liked. He made only 9 of those shots and was 0-2 from 3, which is not good. More crucially, for this game, he went 1-3 from the FT line. Tatum is an 82% FT shooter on the season and if he had gone 2-3 from the line last night, the C's would've won the game. We've seen Tatum make clutch plays in the past so I'm not worried about the sky falling. Heck, the second FT he missed came after a clutch drive to the basket and finish through Gortat's foul. So there's only so hard I can complain.

6 assists and 2 turnovers. Only Rozier finished with more assists last night. Tatum had not done much playmaking for others this season, which I've attributed to his place in the offense and finding his way as a rookie. This game was heartening from that respect as he took on the challenge and was able to find teammates last night.

I wasn't blown away by the performance but I think he did a lot of good things and I'm encouraged. I'd be more encouraged if he had hit his FT's but we can't have everything.

The Kid is 20 years old for god sakes!

Get this through your blown away head and everybody else's, "There was and is only one Jordan"
Title: Re: Tatum - The Good and Bad Against Washington
Post by: Big333223 on March 18, 2018, 05:07:06 PM
With no Kyrie, Horford, Brown, or Smart (or Hayward), last night Jayson Tatum was thrown into the deep end. How'd he do?

He was aggressive. He took a team high 23 shots, which I liked. He made only 9 of those shots and was 0-2 from 3, which is not good. More crucially, for this game, he went 1-3 from the FT line. Tatum is an 82% FT shooter on the season and if he had gone 2-3 from the line last night, the C's would've won the game. We've seen Tatum make clutch plays in the past so I'm not worried about the sky falling. Heck, the second FT he missed came after a clutch drive to the basket and finish through Gortat's foul. So there's only so hard I can complain.

6 assists and 2 turnovers. Only Rozier finished with more assists last night. Tatum had not done much playmaking for others this season, which I've attributed to his place in the offense and finding his way as a rookie. This game was heartening from that respect as he took on the challenge and was able to find teammates last night.

I wasn't blown away by the performance but I think he did a lot of good things and I'm encouraged. I'd be more encouraged if he had hit his FT's but we can't have everything.

The Kid is 20 years old for god sakes!

Get this through your blown away head and everybody else's, "There was and is only one Jordan"

Um... what?