CelticsStrong

Other Discussions => Other / General Sports => Patriots / Football => Topic started by: Moranis on March 13, 2018, 12:35:19 PM

Title: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Moranis on March 13, 2018, 12:35:19 PM
Here are some of the bigger name free agent signings

Cousins to Vikings - 3 years, 84 million
Brees re-signs with Saints - 2 years, 50 million
Keenum signing with Broncos
Sammy Watkins signing with Chiefs - 3 years, 48 million (30 miill guaranteed)
Allen Robinson signing with Bears - 3 years, 42 million
After trading for Bennett, Eagles now adding Haloti Ngata in free agency
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: PhoSita on March 13, 2018, 12:41:15 PM
Feels like if there are "big" signings by the Pats it will be them re-signing Nate Solder and/or Brandin Cooks, and news that Gronk won't retire.

In other words, improvement will have to come from internal development, not free agency or trades. 

But that's not surprising, I guess.


Feels like after last season the Pats almost need to entirely rebuild their defensive and offensive line, but Brady doesn't have enough years left for them to go through another rebuild of the infrastructure (which is what happened between ~2010 and 2014).
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: SparzWizard on March 13, 2018, 01:05:25 PM
Patriots have 1 or 2 more years left in their window given the cap struggles they hold.

If I have to sit and watch that defensive crapshow for another season....ugh.  :'(
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Phantom255x on March 13, 2018, 01:05:26 PM
The Keenum signing I believe is for 2/36M (or around that).

I actually think it's a solid move for both Denver and Minnesota. I don't think Denver had the $$$ to sign Cousins for 28M/Year AND fill other holes, but Keenum is no scrub either. Meanwhile, MIN payed about 10M/Year more for an upgrade in Cousins, and to me, MIN is now one of the favorites to win it all next year.

Drew Brees at 2/50M seems smart for both sides. Guessing a Rodgers extension will come soon as well (or at least sometime this month).

Feels like if there are "big" signings by the Pats it will be them re-signing Nate Solder and/or Brandin Cooks, and news that Gronk won't retire.

In other words, improvement will have to come from internal development, not free agency or trades. 

But that's not surprising, I guess.


Feels like after last season the Pats almost need to entirely rebuild their defensive and offensive line, but Brady doesn't have enough years left for them to go through another rebuild of the infrastructure (which is what happened between ~2010 and 2014).

I thought the Patriots already picked up Brandin Cooks' option for next season (or unless you mean working on a long term extension)? And as much as I'd love to keep Solder, it looks like the Browns are after him and they have a boatload of $$$. BB will have to get creative in working a contract to keep Solder, but I honestly wouldn't bet on it. Still hope we keep him though.

What this team truly needs IMHO is a pass rush and a solid CB with Butler leaving. Sucks we didn't even go after Sherman, but I'm guessing the Pats will look at the Draft to get an OT and a CB. Will be interesting to see if they can somehow add another "high profile" pass rusher, or do they just re-sign Harrison, hope Hightower is healthy and roll from there next year (along with some of the current young guys like Flowers, Roberts, etc.).

If we don't keep Solder though, I imagine at least one of Lewis/Burkhead returns, or maybe both if they cut Gillislee?
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on March 13, 2018, 01:50:37 PM
Patriots have 1 or 2 more years left in their window given the cap struggles they hold.

If I have to sit and watch that defensive crapshow for another season....ugh.  :'(

They've definitely gotta do something about that. And hopefully they keep at least some of their FAs.

As for the rest of the league, I get a kick out of watching the QB carousel, where several teams basically exchange mediocre (or worse) quarterbacks.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Donoghus on March 13, 2018, 02:07:42 PM
The usual silly season when it comes to some of these FA signings.  As always, the details are in the guaranteed money. 

Paul Richardson just signed a 5 year $40M deal.  That should tell you everything you need to know about this time of year. 
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Moranis on March 13, 2018, 02:10:09 PM
Be curious to see if the Jets, Browns, and the other teams with mass money come up with big front loaded contracts for players which will create an interesting dynamic.  You know instead of a 3 year contract worth 10 million year, make that first year worth 25 million and the last two worth 2.5 million each.  Same years, same total dollars, but some creative cap usage which lets the player get most of his money up front. 
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Moranis on March 13, 2018, 02:12:06 PM
Brees is only guaranteed 27 million and the second year is a team option.  Apparently, he had at least one offer that would have guaranteed him 60 million over the next two seasons, but he wanted to stay and retire with the Saints.  That is a lot of guaranteed money to leave on the table though.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Donoghus on March 13, 2018, 02:40:14 PM
Sounds like Danny Clutch-adola is signing with Miami.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Roy H. on March 13, 2018, 02:48:53 PM
Sounds like Danny Clutch-adola is signing with Miami.

I hope he got paid. Heís been undervalued.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on March 13, 2018, 02:49:11 PM
Sounds like Danny Clutch-adola is signing with Miami.

Bite your tongue!!

*pleasebefalse, pleasebefalse, pleasebefalse*

Edit: Dang it, it's true. :(
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Moranis on March 13, 2018, 02:58:04 PM
Looks like all 84 million of Cousins deal is guaranteed.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Donoghus on March 13, 2018, 03:08:57 PM
Looks like all 84 million of Cousins deal is guaranteed.

Good for him. 
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Phantom255x on March 13, 2018, 03:20:51 PM
Sounds like Danny Clutch-adola is signing with Miami.

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/12XMGIWtrHBl5e/200.gif)

Looks like he got 2/12M with 8.75M guaranteed from Miami.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: SparzWizard on March 13, 2018, 03:28:46 PM
Hearing the Patriots are trying to pursue Ndamukong Suh hard.

Well.....
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 13, 2018, 03:29:20 PM
Sounds like Danny Clutch-adola is signing with Miami.

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/12XMGIWtrHBl5e/200.gif)

Looks like he got 2/12M with 8.75M guaranteed from Miami.
No way we could match that.

That's too much.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 13, 2018, 03:30:44 PM
Hearing the Patriots are trying to pursue Ndamukong Suh hard.

Well.....
that rumor seems really really speculative.

No reputable source has suggested they've heard anything about Suh to Patriots.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: PhoSita on March 13, 2018, 03:34:04 PM
This feels like one of those off-seasons where mostly recognizable names leave the Pats, they sign some guys you've never really heard of and draft a bunch of dudes, and we end up talking ourselves into how Brady and Bill will make it work anyway for the entire regular season.  Then, next off-season, everybody will agree "The Patriots definitely need to add some major pieces to keep this going."
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Cman on March 13, 2018, 03:36:43 PM
Sounds like Danny Clutch-adola is signing with Miami.

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/12XMGIWtrHBl5e/200.gif)

Looks like he got 2/12M with 8.75M guaranteed from Miami.
No way we could match that.

That's too much.

Wow, that's pure bank for Dola. Good for him. Not a surprise the Pats aren't matching it.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Cman on March 13, 2018, 03:38:44 PM
Hearing the Patriots are trying to pursue Ndamukong Suh hard.

Well.....
that rumor seems really really speculative.

No reputable source has suggested they've heard anything about Suh to Patriots.

I find it hard to believe. Someone will overpay Suh. And it won't be the Pats.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Phantom255x on March 13, 2018, 03:39:45 PM
Sounds like Danny Clutch-adola is signing with Miami.

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/12XMGIWtrHBl5e/200.gif)

Looks like he got 2/12M with 8.75M guaranteed from Miami.
No way we could match that.

That's too much.

Wow, that's pure bank for Dola. Good for him. Not a surprise the Pats aren't matching it.

Yeah, happy he got paid, and understandable the Pats let him go for that price.

I think they'll be fine so long as Malcolm Mitchell comes back healthy and produces like a #4 receiver next year. He was fantastic in their SB run last year and if I'm not mistaken, had like 6 catches for 70 yards vs. ATL in that SB as well. Unfortunately, injuries killed his sophomore year campaign.

Hearing the Patriots are trying to pursue Ndamukong Suh hard.

Well.....

I personally don't want him, and think he'd have to take a pay cut to come here based on our cap situation and all. BUT.. it is intriguing to think what he could do for us if he keeps his head in the game and embraces the culture here, even if he's productive for just another 2-3 more years.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Moranis on March 13, 2018, 04:23:36 PM
Sam Bradford to Cardinals.  1 year 20 million (15 guaranteed).  Supposedly also has a 1 year option for 20 million.

Teddy Bridgewater now the only possible starter level player still out there.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Donoghus on March 13, 2018, 04:29:29 PM
Sam Bradford to Cardinals.  1 year 20 million (15 guaranteed).  Supposedly also has a 1 year option for 20 million.

Teddy Bridgewater now the only possible starter level player still out there.

Cue the Jets in 3...2...1
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: PhoSita on March 13, 2018, 05:59:03 PM
Amendola gone, Butler gone, next up Solder?  Gronk?
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Donoghus on March 13, 2018, 06:10:37 PM
Amendola gone, Butler gone, next up Solder?  Gronk?

Solder.  They'll be a bidding war which will probably drive the Pats out.

Gronk isn't a FA.  Either he retires or he comes back.  Why on god's green earth would they trade him right now?
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: PhoSita on March 13, 2018, 06:28:26 PM
Amendola gone, Butler gone, next up Solder?  Gronk?

Solder.  They'll be a bidding war which will probably drive the Pats out.

Gronk isn't a FA.  Either he retires or he comes back.  Why on god's green earth would they trade him right now?

Right, but I'm saying he could decide to retire, in which case he would be "gone."


If Solder goes, how in the world are they going to put together an OL that can protect Brady?
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Donoghus on March 13, 2018, 06:45:35 PM
Amendola gone, Butler gone, next up Solder?  Gronk?

Solder.  They'll be a bidding war which will probably drive the Pats out.

Gronk isn't a FA.  Either he retires or he comes back.  Why on god's green earth would they trade him right now?

Right, but I'm saying he could decide to retire, in which case he would be "gone."


If Solder goes, how in the world are they going to put together an OL that can protect Brady?

Draft, cheaper alternatives via free agency, or trade. 

It sounds like Scarneccia is coming back and he's worked wonders with that line year after year.  If Solder leaves for greener pastures, its certainly not the end of the world.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: PhoSita on March 13, 2018, 06:56:06 PM
Amendola gone, Butler gone, next up Solder?  Gronk?

Solder.  They'll be a bidding war which will probably drive the Pats out.

Gronk isn't a FA.  Either he retires or he comes back.  Why on god's green earth would they trade him right now?

Right, but I'm saying he could decide to retire, in which case he would be "gone."


If Solder goes, how in the world are they going to put together an OL that can protect Brady?

Draft, cheaper alternatives via free agency, or trade. 

It sounds like Scarneccia is coming back and he's worked wonders with that line year after year.  If Solder leaves for greener pastures, its certainly not the end of the world.


The line was inadequate last year even with Scarnecchia and Solder.  As usual, good enough to beat a lot of bad teams, not good enough on the biggest stage.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Donoghus on March 13, 2018, 07:01:22 PM
Amendola gone, Butler gone, next up Solder?  Gronk?

Solder.  They'll be a bidding war which will probably drive the Pats out.

Gronk isn't a FA.  Either he retires or he comes back.  Why on god's green earth would they trade him right now?

Right, but I'm saying he could decide to retire, in which case he would be "gone."


If Solder goes, how in the world are they going to put together an OL that can protect Brady?

Draft, cheaper alternatives via free agency, or trade. 

It sounds like Scarneccia is coming back and he's worked wonders with that line year after year.  If Solder leaves for greener pastures, its certainly not the end of the world.


The line was inadequate last year even with Scarnecchia and Solder.  As usual, good enough to beat a lot of bad teams, not good enough on the biggest stage.

What are you talking about?  They made it to the Super Bowl.

On the biggest stage, they had over 600 yards of total offense and didn't punt the ball once.   Brady only got sacked once.  The strip was a helluva play.  Just a great defensive play.  Brady was clean besides that.   Threw for over 500 yards and the team rushed for over 100 yards averaging over 5 yards a carry.

The offensive line wasn't the issue that game.  It was the defense.  That was clear as day.  If there is an area that needs immediate attention, it's the defensive side. 
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: PhoSita on March 13, 2018, 08:13:25 PM

The offensive line wasn't the issue that game.  It was the defense.  That was clear as day.  If there is an area that needs immediate attention, it's the defensive side.

I agree that the defensive line is the biggest area of weakness.

That said, the inability of the defensive line to give Brady the time he needed prevented the come-back attempt at the end of that game from even getting off the ground.  Maybe I'm biased by that being one of the last and most important plays of the game, but they couldn't give Brady time when he needed it most.

That wouldn't have mattered if the defense had been able to stop a nosebleed or get any pressure on Foles, though.  The defense, especially the line, is the biggest priority.


But I just think anything less than excellent is not enough when it comes to the offensive line.  Not when you have a 40+ year old quarterback.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Cman on March 13, 2018, 08:32:21 PM

The offensive line wasn't the issue that game.  It was the defense.  That was clear as day.  If there is an area that needs immediate attention, it's the defensive side.

I agree that the defensive line is the biggest area of weakness.

That said, the inability of the defensive line to give Brady the time he needed prevented the come-back attempt at the end of that game from even getting off the ground.  Maybe I'm biased by that being one of the last and most important plays of the game, but they couldn't give Brady time when he needed it most.

That wouldn't have mattered if the defense had been able to stop a nosebleed or get any pressure on Foles, though.  The defense, especially the line, is the biggest priority.


But I just think anything less than excellent is not enough when it comes to the offensive line.  Not when you have a 40+ year old quarterback.

The Defensive Line is the area that needs the biggest upgrade in talent.

But, I still think the most important signing for the Pats will be the re-signing of Solder, especially when you factor in Brady's age, and the backup QB situation.

I expect most of the DL upgrades will come via the draft, or perhaps trade. I DO NOT expect the Pats to make a big FA splash -- at a minimum it would hurt their chances at compensatory picks (right now they look to get a 3rd rounder via Butler signing with Titans).
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Moranis on March 13, 2018, 08:50:54 PM
Sam Bradford to Cardinals.  1 year 20 million (15 guaranteed).  Supposedly also has a 1 year option for 20 million.

Teddy Bridgewater now the only possible starter level player still out there.

Cue the Jets in 3...2...1
and the obvious choice wins. Teddy will.hoin the Jets
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Moranis on March 13, 2018, 08:51:50 PM
So the man not good enough to play in the Superbowl gets a 5 year, 61 million dollar contract.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: nickagneta on March 13, 2018, 09:21:53 PM
So the man not good enough to play in the Superbowl gets a 5 year, 61 million dollar contract.
Yeah, that's pretty messed up. I definitely want to hear the whole story but, unfortunately, with Belichick, it's doubtful we will ever get the whole truthful story. If Butler goes and has a Pro-Bowl year, Belichick is going to look pretty stupid for not using Malcolm in that game.

Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on March 13, 2018, 09:25:17 PM
Man.  Looks like Dion Lewis is following Butler to the Titans. 
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: jambr380 on March 13, 2018, 09:53:38 PM
I am not too worried about the losses so far. FAs on elite teams get paid big money - it happens every year. What really matters is having a half-way healthy team going into the playoffs. I think the receivers did a decent job picking up the slack for Edelman, but our defense fell completely apart without Hightower.

I will be interested to see who the Pats bring in to fill the voids. They are obviously losing some decent players - maybe now they will have enough to give Gronk a heft raise.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: SparzWizard on March 13, 2018, 10:58:47 PM
So the man not good enough to play in the Superbowl gets a 5 year, 61 million dollar contract.
Yeah, that's pretty messed up. I definitely want to hear the whole story but, unfortunately, with Belichick, it's doubtful we will ever get the whole truthful story. If Butler goes and has a Pro-Bowl year, Belichick is going to look pretty stupid for not using Malcolm in that game.

He already looked stupid using Jordan Richards in that game, and only using Malcolm Butler for one play in Special Teams.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on March 14, 2018, 12:48:39 AM
I am not too worried about the losses so far. FAs on elite teams get paid big money - it happens every year. What really matters is having a half-way healthy team going into the playoffs. I think the receivers did a decent job picking up the slack for Edelman, but our defense fell completely apart without Hightower.

I will be interested to see who the Pats bring in to fill the voids. They are obviously losing some decent players - maybe now they will have enough to give Gronk a heft raise.

I'm not bummed about losing Butler, because IMO he went downhill a lot this season (though he still should've played over Jordan Richards in the SB).

But I AM bummed about losing Lewis, because he brings so much versatility. And even though I realize it's a business and guys are gonna do what's in their best interests, including financial interests, it does irk me a bit when a player leaves the team that basically gave him his chance in the leagueóin Lewis's case, his career was going nowhere after getting little playing time in Philly, but NE came along and helped him become one of the best pass-catching RBs in the game.

Anywho, I'm bummed he's gone, and also that Amendola left. The Pats definitely have some work to do, and not only on defense.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: SparzWizard on March 14, 2018, 02:03:59 AM
I am not too worried about the losses so far. FAs on elite teams get paid big money - it happens every year. What really matters is having a half-way healthy team going into the playoffs. I think the receivers did a decent job picking up the slack for Edelman, but our defense fell completely apart without Hightower.

I will be interested to see who the Pats bring in to fill the voids. They are obviously losing some decent players - maybe now they will have enough to give Gronk a heft raise.

I'm not bummed about losing Butler, because IMO he went downhill a lot this season (though he still should've played over Jordan Richards in the SB).

But I AM bummed about losing Lewis, because he brings so much versatility. And even though I realize it's a business and guys are gonna do what's in their best interests, including financial interests, it does irk me a bit when a player leaves the team that basically gave him his chance in the leagueóin Lewis's case, his career was going nowhere after getting little playing time in Philly, but NE came along and helped him become one of the best pass-catching RBs in the game.

Anywho, I'm bummed he's gone, and also that Amendola left. The Pats definitely have some work to do, and not only on defense.

Resign Nate Solder and call it an offseason!
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Roy H. on March 14, 2018, 08:16:08 AM
Quote
And even though I realize it's a business and guys are gonna do what's in their best interests, including financial interests, it does irk me a bit when a player leaves the team that basically gave him his chance in the leagueóin Lewis's case, his career was going nowhere after getting little playing time in Philly, but NE came along and helped him become one of the best pass-catching RBs in the game.

At the same time, the team that gave him his chance also is ruthless when it comes to cutting players.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Moranis on March 14, 2018, 09:07:55 AM
Quote
And even though I realize it's a business and guys are gonna do what's in their best interests, including financial interests, it does irk me a bit when a player leaves the team that basically gave him his chance in the leagueóin Lewis's case, his career was going nowhere after getting little playing time in Philly, but NE came along and helped him become one of the best pass-catching RBs in the game.

At the same time, the team that gave him his chance also is ruthless when it comes to cutting players.
or you know just not playing their best defensive back in a game that was winnable with one defensive stop.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Donoghus on March 14, 2018, 10:51:34 AM
Solder expected to sign with Giants per WEEI.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Jiri Welsch on March 14, 2018, 10:55:25 AM
Solder expected to sign with Giants per WEEI.

Was coming to post the same. Itís hard to see Amendola, Solder, Butler, and Lewis go and expect them to not see some sort of drop off.

Any idea on how we recover?!
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on March 14, 2018, 11:00:45 AM
Quote
And even though I realize it's a business and guys are gonna do what's in their best interests, including financial interests, it does irk me a bit when a player leaves the team that basically gave him his chance in the leagueóin Lewis's case, his career was going nowhere after getting little playing time in Philly, but NE came along and helped him become one of the best pass-catching RBs in the game.

At the same time, the team that gave him his chance also is ruthless when it comes to cutting players.

Touchť, my friend. Touchť.

Solder expected to sign with Giants per WEEI.

Ugh. It's bad enough to lose him, but to lose him to the team that beat NE twice in the SB? Awful.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: PhoSita on March 14, 2018, 11:17:54 AM
Solder gone now too.

What's the difference in quality between the Pats roster and the rest of the awful AFC East?  Just Tom Brady and Gronk, right?  And Gronk might retire and is injured half the time even if he doesn't.

Unless there's some other shoe to drop here it feels like the Pats are heading for another mediocre "Brady and a bunch of guys win the AFC East by default and are otherwise unremarkable" type season.

If they don't shore up the offensive line, though, maybe they won't even manage that.  Brady might not be able to play the full season if he gets knocked around a bunch.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Roy H. on March 14, 2018, 11:24:51 AM
Quote
Solder will receive a four-year, $60 million contract, with a guarantee of about $35 million, a source told ESPN's Adam Schefter.

Thatís got to put him at or near the top for OL, right?

Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: kozlodoev on March 14, 2018, 11:39:39 AM
Quote
Solder will receive a four-year, $60 million contract, with a guarantee of about $35 million, a source told ESPN's Adam Schefter.

Thatís got to put him at or near the top for OL, right?
Precise figure is $62 million. Top paid OL in the league by a good margin (second highest is something like $13.4 million this season).

Say hello to Marcus Cannon, your day 1 starting LT.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on March 14, 2018, 11:44:53 AM
Solder gone now too.

What's the difference in quality between the Pats roster and the rest of the awful AFC East?  Just Tom Brady and Gronk, right?  And Gronk might retire and is injured half the time even if he doesn't.

Unless there's some other shoe to drop here it feels like the Pats are heading for another mediocre "Brady and a bunch of guys win the AFC East by default and are otherwise unremarkable" type season.

If they don't shore up the offensive line, though, maybe they won't even manage that.  Brady might not be able to play the full season if he gets knocked around a bunch.

I don't know what they're gonna do, but I'm not having visions of sugar plums dancing in my head. Even when the Pats technically have the players they need, they still oftentimes end up in trouble via injuries, so now that they don't even technically have the players they need? ... Could get ugly.

Belichick's pretty good at taking castoffs from other teams and making them productive players, but that works only when the team has studs at certain positions, and then Bill fills in around them with the reclamation projects. Right now, though, it seems the team has too many fill-in players and not enough studs.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on March 14, 2018, 11:45:20 AM
Quote
Solder will receive a four-year, $60 million contract, with a guarantee of about $35 million, a source told ESPN's Adam Schefter.

Thatís got to put him at or near the top for OL, right?
Precise figure is $62 million. Top paid OL in the league by a good margin (second highest is something like $13.4 million this season).

Say hello to Marcus Cannon, your day 1 starting LT.

Yikes.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: kozlodoev on March 14, 2018, 11:49:43 AM
Quote
Solder will receive a four-year, $60 million contract, with a guarantee of about $35 million, a source told ESPN's Adam Schefter.

Thatís got to put him at or near the top for OL, right?
Precise figure is $62 million. Top paid OL in the league by a good margin (second highest is something like $13.4 million this season).

Say hello to Marcus Cannon, your day 1 starting LT.

Yikes.
What, you'd rather have Cam Flemming? Because those were the guys they had in at LT when Solder had to miss snaps.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Donoghus on March 14, 2018, 11:51:32 AM
Quote
Solder will receive a four-year, $60 million contract, with a guarantee of about $35 million, a source told ESPN's Adam Schefter.

Thatís got to put him at or near the top for OL, right?
Precise figure is $62 million. Top paid OL in the league by a good margin (second highest is something like $13.4 million this season).

Say hello to Marcus Cannon, your day 1 starting LT.

Yikes.
What, you'd rather have Cam Flemming? Because those were the guys they had in at LT when Solder had to miss snaps.

Cannon's adequate.  Pretty safe bet that they'll got O-Line with either their 1st rounder or one of their two 2nd rounders.  Probably can get a guy that'll start Day 1.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: kozlodoev on March 14, 2018, 11:59:34 AM
Quote
Solder will receive a four-year, $60 million contract, with a guarantee of about $35 million, a source told ESPN's Adam Schefter.

Thatís got to put him at or near the top for OL, right?
Precise figure is $62 million. Top paid OL in the league by a good margin (second highest is something like $13.4 million this season).

Say hello to Marcus Cannon, your day 1 starting LT.

Yikes.
What, you'd rather have Cam Flemming? Because those were the guys they had in at LT when Solder had to miss snaps.

Cannon's adequate.  Pretty safe bet that they'll got O-Line with either their 1st rounder or one of their two 2nd rounders.  Probably can get a guy that'll start Day 1.
The problem with Cannon is that he's one season removed from being a turnstile. Also he seemed to tail off down the road this season.

I'm not big on college football, but is there even a guy who's ready to come in and start right away? I can't imagine they'll go with a revolving door at LT. At any other position, worst-case scenario is giving up a TD or having to punt... at LT, you risk having someone take your 40-odd year old QB's head off.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on March 14, 2018, 12:19:00 PM
Quote
Solder will receive a four-year, $60 million contract, with a guarantee of about $35 million, a source told ESPN's Adam Schefter.

Thatís got to put him at or near the top for OL, right?
Precise figure is $62 million. Top paid OL in the league by a good margin (second highest is something like $13.4 million this season).

Say hello to Marcus Cannon, your day 1 starting LT.

Yikes.
What, you'd rather have Cam Flemming? Because those were the guys they had in at LT when Solder had to miss snaps.

No, I'd rather have someone who's really good, which isn't either of those guys.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: johnnygreen on March 14, 2018, 01:01:34 PM
There are many reasons why a free agent will leave a team. Would one of them, for some of the now former Patriot players this offseason, be the uncertainty surrounding this team? Iím sorry, but Brady has become a circus attraction and feels bigger than the team. Brady's age has to be a major concern from year-to-year now. Would their decisions have been different if Garoppolo was the starting QB going forward?
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: kozlodoev on March 14, 2018, 01:01:46 PM
No, I'd rather have someone who's really good, which isn't either of those guys.
Well, market says that's going to cost you $15 million per :P

But even that's moot, because there really isn't anyone available at this stage.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 14, 2018, 01:18:19 PM
Quote
Solder will receive a four-year, $60 million contract, with a guarantee of about $35 million, a source told ESPN's Adam Schefter.

Thatís got to put him at or near the top for OL, right?
To answer your question, he is the highest paid offensive lineman ever.

Can't blame NE for balking here. All 4 guys who have left, have been overpaid. Tough to see all these guys gone.

We have 22 mil in cap now, and 4 picks in the first 3 rounds. Also worth noting we are likely to pick up 4 comp picks in next years draft including 3rd round comp picks for Solder and Butler.

We have a gaping need at tackle. We are desperate for linebacker and cornerback depth and need a QB prospect.

I'd like to take a tackle in the first. Maybe even use a future pick to move up and get one. Then address CB and QB in the rest of the draft.

Sign some linebackers in free agency and pray Brady still has another year or 2 of MVP caliber play.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 14, 2018, 01:20:56 PM
There are many reasons why a free agent will leave a team. Would one of them, for some of the now former Patriot players this offseason, be the uncertainty surrounding this team? Iím sorry, but Brady has become a circus attraction and feels bigger than the team. Brady's age has to be a major concern from year-to-year now. Would their decisions have been different if Garoppolo was the starting QB going forward?
Nate Solder became the highest paid offensive lineman in NFL history.

That's why he's gone.

If you think Danny Amendola left because he didn't want to play with Tom Brady I don't know what to tell you.

Butler was gone no matter what and Dion got paid too.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: kozlodoev on March 14, 2018, 01:28:39 PM
There are many reasons why a free agent will leave a team. Would one of them, for some of the now former Patriot players this offseason, be the uncertainty surrounding this team? Iím sorry, but Brady has become a circus attraction and feels bigger than the team. Brady's age has to be a major concern from year-to-year now. Would their decisions have been different if Garoppolo was the starting QB going forward?
Nate Solder became the highest paid offensive lineman in NFL history.

That's why he's gone.

If you think Danny Amendola left because he didn't want to play with Tom Brady I don't know what to tell you.

Butler was gone no matter what and Dion got paid too.
All four guys left because they were offered considerably more money than they would have gotten in New England. There are only that many team-friendly deals one can take.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Donoghus on March 14, 2018, 01:34:02 PM
Those guy should get paid too.

Earning window is so darn narrow with NFL players.  The nature of the contracts suck too.  Those guys should be chasing every guaranteed dollar they can.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: KGs Knee on March 14, 2018, 01:40:01 PM
Kind of funny to see the mass exodus of talent leaving the Patriots. Players are realizing the writing is on the wall and the franchises time in the sun is over. Once Brady retires soon they'll be back in the basement, with little hope of getting out any time soon. Should have kept Jimmy G.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 14, 2018, 01:47:15 PM
Kind of funny to see the mass exodus of talent leaving the Patriots. Players are realizing the writing is on the wall and the franchises time in the sun is over. Once Brady retires soon they'll be back in the basement, with little hope of getting out any time soon. Should have kept Jimmy G.
Are you sure players arent just realizing that they can get paid 2x as much by some other desperate team?

When ET left the Celtics did he see the "writing on the wall"? When Deion Branch left NE was the writing on the wall? what about Wes? did he see the writing on the wall too?

Nate Solder is now the highest paid offensive lineman in history. Danny Amendola is an injury prone 32 year old getting paid like #2 receiver.

Everyone saw the other 2 departures. We have lost exactly 4 players.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: nickagneta on March 14, 2018, 02:00:15 PM
Kind of funny to see the mass exodus of talent leaving the Patriots. Players are realizing the writing is on the wall and the franchises time in the sun is over. Once Brady retires soon they'll be back in the basement, with little hope of getting out any time soon. Should have kept Jimmy G.
Are you sure players arent just realizing that they can get paid 2x as much by some other desperate team?

When ET left the Celtics did he see the "writing on the wall"? When Deion Branch left NE was the writing on the wall? what about Wes? did he see the writing on the wall too?

Nate Solder is now the highest paid offensive lineman in history. Danny Amendola is an injury prone 32 year old getting paid like #2 receiver.

Everyone saw the other 2 departures. We have lost exactly 4 players.
Have to follow the money. Why would any of these 4 players decide to play in New England for 1/2 to 1/3 the money when they all already have their SB rings? Gotta follow the money!
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: johnnygreen on March 14, 2018, 02:02:06 PM
There are many reasons why a free agent will leave a team. Would one of them, for some of the now former Patriot players this offseason, be the uncertainty surrounding this team? Iím sorry, but Brady has become a circus attraction and feels bigger than the team. Brady's age has to be a major concern from year-to-year now. Would their decisions have been different if Garoppolo was the starting QB going forward?
Nate Solder became the highest paid offensive lineman in NFL history.

That's why he's gone.

If you think Danny Amendola left because he didn't want to play with Tom Brady I don't know what to tell you.

Butler was gone no matter what and Dion got paid too.

I did not say those guys left because of Brady. I was referring to Brady possibly being one of many factors these guys probably based their decision on. I'm assuming the Patriots made competitive offers to some of these players. I'm also not delusional to think the Giants made a $62M offer to counter a Pats offer of say $15M over the same time frame.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Donoghus on March 14, 2018, 02:22:07 PM
Not free agency but Joe Thomas just announced his retirement.  First ballot HOFer.  A real shame that he played his entire career for an abysmal & dysfunctional franchise.

Played over 10,000 consecutive snaps at one point.  As an offensive lineman.  That is insane.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on March 14, 2018, 02:41:11 PM
Not free agency but Joe Thomas just announced his retirement.  First ballot HOFer.  A real shame that he played his entire career for an abysmal & dysfunctional franchise.

Played over 10,000 consecutive snaps at one point.  As an offensive lineman.  That is insane.

Quite the achievement, playing an entire career for the Browns.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: SparzWizard on March 14, 2018, 02:56:23 PM
Must be miserable being a Boston sports fan this week. Between dealing with an array of Celtics injuries and Patriots dropping like flies on the free agency front I do not know what is worse.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on March 14, 2018, 03:00:19 PM
Must be miserable being a Boston sports fan this week. Between dealing with an array of Celtics injuries and Patriots dropping like flies on the free agency front I do not know what is worse.

A little difficult. But at least the Bruins scored 5 goals in the third period last night to overcome a 4-1 deficit and get a win!
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Moranis on March 14, 2018, 03:06:38 PM
There are many reasons why a free agent will leave a team. Would one of them, for some of the now former Patriot players this offseason, be the uncertainty surrounding this team? Iím sorry, but Brady has become a circus attraction and feels bigger than the team. Brady's age has to be a major concern from year-to-year now. Would their decisions have been different if Garoppolo was the starting QB going forward?
Nate Solder became the highest paid offensive lineman in NFL history.

That's why he's gone.

If you think Danny Amendola left because he didn't want to play with Tom Brady I don't know what to tell you.

Butler was gone no matter what and Dion got paid too.

I did not say those guys left because of Brady. I was referring to Brady possibly being one of many factors these guys probably based their decision on. I'm assuming the Patriots made competitive offers to some of these players. I'm also not delusional to think the Giants made a $62M offer to counter a Pats offer of say $15M over the same time frame.
The Browns went hard after Solder.  The Giants had to beat (or at least get close) to what the Browns had on the table.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Moranis on March 14, 2018, 03:07:35 PM
Not free agency but Joe Thomas just announced his retirement.  First ballot HOFer.  A real shame that he played his entire career for an abysmal & dysfunctional franchise.

Played over 10,000 consecutive snaps at one point.  As an offensive lineman.  That is insane.
And he leaves just when it looks like Cleveland might have finally figured out what they are doing. 
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 14, 2018, 03:16:53 PM
Not free agency but Joe Thomas just announced his retirement.  First ballot HOFer.  A real shame that he played his entire career for an abysmal & dysfunctional franchise.

Played over 10,000 consecutive snaps at one point.  As an offensive lineman.  That is insane.
And he leaves just when it looks like Cleveland might have finally figured out what they are doing.
Worth noting that people also said this last year.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Moranis on March 14, 2018, 03:18:11 PM
Not free agency but Joe Thomas just announced his retirement.  First ballot HOFer.  A real shame that he played his entire career for an abysmal & dysfunctional franchise.

Played over 10,000 consecutive snaps at one point.  As an offensive lineman.  That is insane.
And he leaves just when it looks like Cleveland might have finally figured out what they are doing.
Worth noting that people also said this last year.
Not really.  They got killed for not taking DeShaun Watson and trading out of that pick.  They didn't do anything in free agency.  This is a vastly different off season thus far, though they obviously can still blow the draft.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: kozlodoev on March 14, 2018, 03:20:47 PM
Not free agency but Joe Thomas just announced his retirement.  First ballot HOFer.  A real shame that he played his entire career for an abysmal & dysfunctional franchise.

Played over 10,000 consecutive snaps at one point.  As an offensive lineman.  That is insane.
And he leaves just when it looks like Cleveland might have finally figured out what they are doing.
He said that he suffers memory loss and there periods of time that he can't remember anything about. Good for him.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 14, 2018, 03:35:43 PM
Not free agency but Joe Thomas just announced his retirement.  First ballot HOFer.  A real shame that he played his entire career for an abysmal & dysfunctional franchise.

Played over 10,000 consecutive snaps at one point.  As an offensive lineman.  That is insane.
And he leaves just when it looks like Cleveland might have finally figured out what they are doing.
Worth noting that people also said this last year.
Not really.  They got killed for not taking DeShaun Watson and trading out of that pick.  They didn't do anything in free agency.  This is a vastly different off season thus far, though they obviously can still blow the draft.
they only got killed for not taking DeShaun Watson when Watson started dominating in Houston. Many people listed them as winners in the draft.

I won't believe that they have it figured out as long as Hue Jackson is the head coach.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Moranis on March 14, 2018, 03:48:24 PM
Not free agency but Joe Thomas just announced his retirement.  First ballot HOFer.  A real shame that he played his entire career for an abysmal & dysfunctional franchise.

Played over 10,000 consecutive snaps at one point.  As an offensive lineman.  That is insane.
And he leaves just when it looks like Cleveland might have finally figured out what they are doing.
Worth noting that people also said this last year.
Not really.  They got killed for not taking DeShaun Watson and trading out of that pick.  They didn't do anything in free agency.  This is a vastly different off season thus far, though they obviously can still blow the draft.
they only got killed for not taking DeShaun Watson when Watson started dominating in Houston. Many people listed them as winners in the draft.

I won't believe that they have it figured out as long as Hue Jackson is the head coach.
Looking back, I think that is probably right, though a lot of their positive grades was them actually taking Garrett at #1 and not reaching for a QB.  That said, they were awful in free agency.  ESPN gave them a C- on that front. 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/32for32x170316/2017-nfl-free-agency-grades-all-32-teams

Cleveland Browns: The Browns' biggest addition was receiver Kenny Britt, but they also lost Terrelle Pryor Sr. and still need to address the quarterback position. Read the post here.

http://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/21767/free-agency-gives-browns-wr-kenny-britt-but-nobody-at-quarterback

Most significant signing: The Browns' receiving corps consists of four second-year players who did not overwhelm in their rookie seasons, and Kenny Britt. Britt signed a four-year deal on the first day of free agency, effectively replacing Terrelle Pryor. The receiving group would look a lot better with Britt and Pryor, but that's not the group the Browns have. To replace their most productive receiver, the Browns signed a player who hit 1,000 yards in his eighth season and who has averaged 38.6 catches, 610 yards and 3.8 touchdowns in his eight seasons. This hardly screams "dramatic improvement."

Most significant loss: Pryor led the Browns in receptions, yards and receiving touchdowns in 2016. He now plays in Washington. How that happened is up for debate, but clearly the Browns and Pryor and his camp disagreed on his value before free agency started. The way it ended -- with Pryor signing a deal worth $6 million and $2 million in incentives -- indicates the Browns gauged his value accurately. The market showed that Pryor was not going to make in excess of $10 million and that most teams felt any money spent over that was not well spent. The Browns probably offered Pryor in the neighborhood of what they offered Britt -- $8 to $9 million per year. Pryor's camp thought he was worth more. He has a year to prove it in Washington.

Player they should have signed: Easy to say because he made a ton of money, but it sure would have been nice to add some defensive interior strength and aggressiveness to Gregg Williams' defense with lineman Brandon Williams. Williams plays in the 3-4 and the 4-3, he plays the run and rushes the passer and he's a humble guy who fits on a team. Given Danny Shelton's improvement, putting Willams next to him would have meant a significant upgrade to the team's interior front. Williams is young (28) and adding him would have hurt a division rival. Williams became the league's highest-paid nose tackle when he re-signed in Baltimore, so he would not have come cheap. But the Browns started free agency with more than $100 million in salary cap room, so they could have fit him. The Browns spent $8 million on Britt and are paying $16 million to a quarterback not to play. Would $10 million on a productive defensive lineman been all that ridiculous?

Whatís next: The most expensive player on the Browns will not play for them this year. Brock Osweiler's $16 million contact ranks him first on the team in salary and salary cap cost. Yet the team seems focused on trading or releasing him in the not-too-distant future. If and when that happens, the Browns will have Cody Kessler and Kevin Hogan as their quarterbacks, with Britt as the leading receiver. One by one, the team's quarterback options faded. The Patriots made it known they would not trade Jimmy Garoppolo. The Bills kept Tyrod Taylor. The Bears signed Mike Glennon. Robert Griffin III was released. Meanwhile, the Browns didn't even think Brian Hoyer was worth a phone call. As of today, Kessler or a drafted rookie is the team's starting quarterback. And yes, the Browns are staring down the barrel of a 2-14 season as they come off finishing 1-15. Is it too early to talk 2018 draft?

Overall grade: C-minus. It was nice to improve the line, but even that had its quirks. The Browns gave a contract extension to a player coming off serious foot surgery. Joel Bitonio when healthy is as good as anyone and well-deserving of the deal, but wouldn't it make more sense to see him on the field to ensure he's healthy before giving him this extension? The Browns also added a right guard, which was not a position of need. Ask around the league and John Greco is given nothing but respect as an underappreciated pro. The flip side of this is that Kevin Zeitler is a good player, and Greco could move to center if J.C. Tretter does not work out or again has to fight injury. The bottom line with all these moves is that the team's quarterback position remains a gigantic unknown, and the roster overall still has some needs, though the team does have an extra second-round pick in 2018 thanks to the machinations of the trade with Houston that included Osweiler.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Donoghus on March 14, 2018, 03:51:52 PM
Well, after you go 0-16, there really is only one direction to go by default so.....
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Moranis on March 14, 2018, 03:59:46 PM
Well, after you go 0-16, there really is only one direction to go by default so.....
true, but I actually think they will be a good bad team.  What I mean is a 6 or 7 win team that is in every game and is a tough out.  Obviously they could still royally mess up the draft, but I like what they've done this off season.  Taylor is a good solid consistent QB.  Carlos Hyde and Duke Johnson are a nice combo at RB.  Jarvis Landry paired with Josh Gordon is a crazy good 1/2 punch at WR (that is of course if Gordon can keep his head on straight).  Randall should be a lot better at FS and they already had talent in the secondary.  Put them with all their young defensive talent, like Garrett, plus whatever they get at 1 and 4 and there other 4 picks in the top 70 or so, and they should be a young team on the rise, but finally should have fairly stable QB play (while they groom whomever they take in the draft).

They now have a former head coach in both the Defensive Coordinator and Offensive Coordinator slots, so they have good coaching on both sides.  And they brought in an established experienced GM that has put together a very nice off season.  The draft is obviously the key, but the Browns should be a team on the rise.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on March 14, 2018, 05:27:22 PM
Pats re-signed Burkhead, which is big, especially after losing Lewis. Hopefully Burkhead is healthier this season, but despite injuries last season he produced 500 total yards and 8 total touchdowns. He and White are a great tandem.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on March 14, 2018, 06:41:38 PM
Not feeling good about losing Lewis.  I thought he was really underrated.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: PhoSita on March 14, 2018, 07:39:46 PM
Pats re-signed Burkhead, which is big, especially after losing Lewis. Hopefully Burkhead is healthier this season, but despite injuries last season he produced 500 total yards and 8 total touchdowns. He and White are a great tandem.

The Pats really need a Blount replacement, somebody who can eat yards and clock with a lead, or power for a key 1-3 yards in big spots.  I imagine Gilislee was supposed to be that guy, but wasn't able to stay healthy and/or produce last year.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on March 14, 2018, 07:48:47 PM
Pats re-signed Burkhead, which is big, especially after losing Lewis. Hopefully Burkhead is healthier this season, but despite injuries last season he produced 500 total yards and 8 total touchdowns. He and White are a great tandem.

The Pats really need a Blount replacement, somebody who can eat yards and clock with a lead, or power for a key 1-3 yards in big spots.  I imagine Gilislee was supposed to be that guy, but wasn't able to stay healthy and/or produce last year.

Gillislee was totally supposed to be that guy but struggled all season, though maybe injuries had something to do with that.

But you're right, they need someone who's good in goal-line and other short-yardage situations.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Cman on March 14, 2018, 08:34:34 PM
Kind of funny to see the mass exodus of talent leaving the Patriots.

Um, no.
The players are just going to places where they are getting paid more. Period.

Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: kozlodoev on March 15, 2018, 04:29:47 PM
Pats acquired the other McCourty for a 6th round pick swap. Good deal.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Donoghus on March 15, 2018, 04:33:44 PM
Pats acquired the other McCourty for a 6th round pick swap. Good deal.

So Belichick has made two subsequent deals with CLE after the bruhahah about the Jimmy G no deal.

Seems to lend more credence to the idea that he was doing Jimmy G a favor with the SF deal/CLE no deal.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: kozlodoev on March 15, 2018, 04:36:15 PM
Pats acquired the other McCourty for a 6th round pick swap. Good deal.

So Belichick has made two subsequent deals with CLE after the bruhahah about the Jimmy G no deal.

Seems to lend more credence to the idea that he was doing Jimmy G a favor with the SF deal/CLE no deal.
Oh, I have no doubts about that. Remember how he waxed poetic about Jimmy at the presser after the trade? I've only heard him talk like that when he traded Vince.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 15, 2018, 04:40:37 PM
3 mil cap hit for McCourty who figures to be a high end #2 corner if he stays healthy (this has been an issue for him).

Terrific trade. Feel pretty good about Gilmore-McCourty-Jones-Rowe at the corner position.

Now we need to address the LT position, acquire a few linebackers, and draft a QB to develop.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Cman on March 15, 2018, 04:57:58 PM
Pats acquired the other McCourty for a 6th round pick swap. Good deal.

Good deal. Ensures they get him on his reasonable salary (instead of trying to sign him as a FA), and preserves their ability to get two third round compensatory picks next year (Butler and Solder). EDIT: It turns out it doesn't matter how a player is acquired; whether trade or sign as a FA, it still affects compensatory draft pick formula.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: kozlodoev on March 15, 2018, 05:08:29 PM
Now we need to address the LT position, acquire a few linebackers, and draft a QB to develop.
And hope we won't need a new TE.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 15, 2018, 08:12:51 PM
We are being linked to Jeremy Hill and Adrian Clayborn now.

Clayborn sounds a little expensive but would love hill on a cheap contract.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: SparzWizard on March 15, 2018, 10:28:52 PM
Now we need to address the LT position, acquire a few linebackers, and draft a QB to develop.
And hope we won't need a new TE.

You spoke too soon; Lions TE Eric Ebron is going to pay a visit to the Patriots this Sunday.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: A Future of Stevens on March 16, 2018, 07:30:07 AM
Now we need to address the LT position, acquire a few linebackers, and draft a QB to develop.
And hope we won't need a new TE.

You spoke too soon; Lions TE Eric Ebron is going to pay a visit to the Patriots this Sunday.

A dual TE lineup of Gronk and Ebron, along with getting Edelman back should make our offense even better than last year. Assuming Brady doesn't get blown up from the edge every drive.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: kozlodoev on March 16, 2018, 03:00:00 PM
Now we need to address the LT position, acquire a few linebackers, and draft a QB to develop.
And hope we won't need a new TE.

You spoke too soon; Lions TE Eric Ebron is going to pay a visit to the Patriots this Sunday.

A dual TE lineup of Gronk and Ebron, along with getting Edelman back should make our offense even better than last year. Assuming Brady doesn't get blown up from the edge every drive.
At this rate of burning through cap, it looks it's going to be Cannon, Flemming, and whoever we manage to draft at LT. Ught.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Donoghus on March 16, 2018, 03:13:08 PM
Now we need to address the LT position, acquire a few linebackers, and draft a QB to develop.
And hope we won't need a new TE.

You spoke too soon; Lions TE Eric Ebron is going to pay a visit to the Patriots this Sunday.

A dual TE lineup of Gronk and Ebron, along with getting Edelman back should make our offense even better than last year. Assuming Brady doesn't get blown up from the edge every drive.
At this rate of burning through cap, it looks it's going to be Cannon, Flemming, and whoever we manage to draft at LT. Ught.

Stand around $15.6M of available cap space at the moment.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: celticsclay on March 16, 2018, 03:17:32 PM
Now we need to address the LT position, acquire a few linebackers, and draft a QB to develop.
And hope we won't need a new TE.

You spoke too soon; Lions TE Eric Ebron is going to pay a visit to the Patriots this Sunday.

Ughh... he is not good. I would rather get a guy in the 4th or 5th round with some athleticism than him.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 16, 2018, 03:24:11 PM
Now we need to address the LT position, acquire a few linebackers, and draft a QB to develop.
And hope we won't need a new TE.

You spoke too soon; Lions TE Eric Ebron is going to pay a visit to the Patriots this Sunday.

A dual TE lineup of Gronk and Ebron, along with getting Edelman back should make our offense even better than last year. Assuming Brady doesn't get blown up from the edge every drive.
At this rate of burning through cap, it looks it's going to be Cannon, Flemming, and whoever we manage to draft at LT. Ught.

Stand around $15.6M of available cap space at the moment.
Need to set aside about 8 mil for picks etc
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Cman on March 16, 2018, 03:40:22 PM
Now we need to address the LT position, acquire a few linebackers, and draft a QB to develop.
And hope we won't need a new TE.

You spoke too soon; Lions TE Eric Ebron is going to pay a visit to the Patriots this Sunday.

A dual TE lineup of Gronk and Ebron, along with getting Edelman back should make our offense even better than last year. Assuming Brady doesn't get blown up from the edge every drive.
At this rate of burning through cap, it looks it's going to be Cannon, Flemming, and whoever we manage to draft at LT. Ught.

Stand around $15.6M of available cap space at the moment.
Need to set aside about 8 mil for picks etc

I thought it was closer to $4-5M to set aside for picks. Also, Pats could free up space by cutting Dwayne Allen.

Also, for those that don't already know it, this guys the best when it comes to Pats Cap info:
https://twitter.com/patscap
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: celticsclay on March 16, 2018, 03:44:52 PM
Now we need to address the LT position, acquire a few linebackers, and draft a QB to develop.
And hope we won't need a new TE.

You spoke too soon; Lions TE Eric Ebron is going to pay a visit to the Patriots this Sunday.

A dual TE lineup of Gronk and Ebron, along with getting Edelman back should make our offense even better than last year. Assuming Brady doesn't get blown up from the edge every drive.
At this rate of burning through cap, it looks it's going to be Cannon, Flemming, and whoever we manage to draft at LT. Ught.

Stand around $15.6M of available cap space at the moment.
Need to set aside about 8 mil for picks etc

I thought it was closer to $4-5M to set aside for picks. Also, Pats could free up space by cutting Dwayne Allen.

Also, for those that don't already know it, this guys the best when it comes to Pats Cap info:
https://twitter.com/patscap

i would be absolutely shocked if they don't cut allen, he was a major disappointment last year, especially when Gronk was out.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: kozlodoev on March 16, 2018, 04:59:56 PM
Stand around $15.6M of available cap space at the moment.
That is barely enough to fit Nate Solder's new contract. Not that there is another player of Nate Solder's caliber out there.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 16, 2018, 06:16:05 PM
Now we need to address the LT position, acquire a few linebackers, and draft a QB to develop.
And hope we won't need a new TE.

You spoke too soon; Lions TE Eric Ebron is going to pay a visit to the Patriots this Sunday.

A dual TE lineup of Gronk and Ebron, along with getting Edelman back should make our offense even better than last year. Assuming Brady doesn't get blown up from the edge every drive.
At this rate of burning through cap, it looks it's going to be Cannon, Flemming, and whoever we manage to draft at LT. Ught.

Stand around $15.6M of available cap space at the moment.
Need to set aside about 8 mil for picks etc

I thought it was closer to $4-5M to set aside for picks. Also, Pats could free up space by cutting Dwayne Allen.

Also, for those that don't already know it, this guys the best when it comes to Pats Cap info:
https://twitter.com/patscap

i would be absolutely shocked if they don't cut allen, he was a major disappointment last year, especially when Gronk was out.
He is a terrific blocker and was overall a positive contributor, but there's no way he's worth that 5 mil cap number.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Donoghus on March 16, 2018, 06:45:24 PM
Schefter is reporting Clayborn reaches an agreement with Pats

Quote
Adam Schefter

Verified account
 
@AdamSchefter
 5m5 minutes ago
More
Patriots reached agreement with former Falconsí DE Adrian Clayborn, per source.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on March 16, 2018, 07:05:16 PM
Schefter is reporting Clayborn reaches an agreement with Pats

Quote
Adam Schefter

Verified account
 
@AdamSchefter
 5m5 minutes ago
More
Patriots reached agreement with former Falconsí DE Adrian Clayborn, per source.

I don't know much about Clayborn, but I'm gonna temper my expectations here after getting excited last offseason about the Pats getting Kony Ealy only to cut him early in the season.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Roy H. on March 16, 2018, 08:18:22 PM
Pats sign Jeremy Hill and Matt Tobin.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Donoghus on March 17, 2018, 11:00:43 AM
Draft news.   I think Indy just took the Jets to the cleaners.  Desperation for a QB is a stinky cologne.

Quote
Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
 10m10 minutes ago
Huge trade: Jets acquired No. 3 overall pick from Colts for No. 6 overall pick, 37th overall pick, 49th overall pick and our 2019 2nd round pick.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: gouki88 on March 17, 2018, 11:03:53 AM
Draft news.   I think Indy just took the Jets to the cleaners.  Desperation for a QB is a stinky cologne.

Quote
Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
 10m10 minutes ago
Huge trade: Jets acquired No. 3 overall pick from Colts for No. 6 overall pick, 37th overall pick, 49th overall pick and our 2019 2nd round pick.
Ouch. Indy getting away with murder
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Roy H. on March 17, 2018, 12:23:13 PM
Draft news.   I think Indy just took the Jets to the cleaners.  Desperation for a QB is a stinky cologne.

Quote
Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
 10m10 minutes ago
Huge trade: Jets acquired No. 3 overall pick from Colts for No. 6 overall pick, 37th overall pick, 49th overall pick and our 2019 2nd round pick.

I guess they didnít want the Browns taking Barkley #1 and then stealing their QB at #4.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Donoghus on March 17, 2018, 12:26:50 PM
Draft news.   I think Indy just took the Jets to the cleaners.  Desperation for a QB is a stinky cologne.

Quote
Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
 10m10 minutes ago
Huge trade: Jets acquired No. 3 overall pick from Colts for No. 6 overall pick, 37th overall pick, 49th overall pick and our 2019 2nd round pick.

I guess they didnít want the Browns taking Barkley #1 and then stealing their QB at #4.

Think so.  Now it would seem to force CLE's hand to draft a QB at #1 instead.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Moranis on March 17, 2018, 03:15:57 PM
Only the Jets would pay a ransom to move up in the draft and select the 3rd best QB. 
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: KGs Knee on March 17, 2018, 03:51:47 PM
Only the Jets would pay a ransom to move up in the draft and select the 3rd best QB. 

It really does seem like a wild overpay for the #3 pick.

But...

I'd be mildly surprised if the Giants select a QB at #2, as they have more pressing needs. I think they'll probably draft either Nelson or Chubb.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: SparzWizard on March 17, 2018, 09:05:48 PM
7-time Patriot Pro-Bowler Matthew Slater in Pittsburgh for a visit, sources say.

Holy molyyyy
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 17, 2018, 09:07:47 PM
7-time Patriot Pro-Bowler Matthew Slater in Pittsburgh for a visit, sources say.

Holy molyyyy
I cant even imagine something that would hurt Belichick more.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: footey on March 17, 2018, 09:37:47 PM
Only the Jets would pay a ransom to move up in the draft and select the 3rd best QB.

Maybe they are very high on 3, but not 4, QBís in the draft. If so, it makes total sense.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Moranis on March 17, 2018, 11:03:00 PM
Only the Jets would pay a ransom to move up in the draft and select the 3rd best QB.

Maybe they are very high on 3, but not 4, QBís in the draft. If so, it makes total sense.
Even if they are, they still very possibly get the 3rd best one, which makes it a silly trade to do at this point.  Now sure, at the draft if their guy was still on the board, you make that trade, but right now it is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Moranis on March 19, 2018, 02:19:36 PM
Browns fans are ecstatic with the Jets trade as they now believe they will get their QB at 1 (Darnold is the front runner) and the best non-QB at 4 (Barkley and Chubb are fairly evenly split).  The Giants could still ruin that, but most people seem to think the Giants will either take a QB at 2 or trade the pick to a team that will take a QB.  However even if they take Barkley, that still leaves Chubb for the Browns since the Jets are clearly taking a QB. 
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: KGs Knee on March 19, 2018, 02:31:53 PM
Browns fans are ecstatic with the Jets trade as they now believe they will get their QB at 1 (Darnold is the front runner) and the best non-QB at 4 (Barkley and Chubb are fairly evenly split).  The Giants could still ruin that, but most people seem to think the Giants will either take a QB at 2 or trade the pick to a team that will take a QB.  However even if they take Barkley, that still leaves Chubb for the Browns since the Jets are clearly taking a QB. 

It seems very unlikely the Giants will draft a QB with that pick. They just paid out a $5m roster bonus to Eli yesterday and the ownership has seemingly been steadfast in their intentions of keeping him around for at least a few more years. They still believe they can win with him.

I'm really hoping they draft either Nelson or Chubb. I'd be fine with Barkley, too, but drafting an offensive or defensive lineman at the top of the draft would just make so much more sense. Both are positions of great need, and are more important positions than RB anyways.

Trading the pick is another possibility, but I'm hoping that if they do, it's only because someone was willing to offer an overpay like the Jets just did.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Moranis on March 19, 2018, 02:47:07 PM
Browns fans are ecstatic with the Jets trade as they now believe they will get their QB at 1 (Darnold is the front runner) and the best non-QB at 4 (Barkley and Chubb are fairly evenly split).  The Giants could still ruin that, but most people seem to think the Giants will either take a QB at 2 or trade the pick to a team that will take a QB.  However even if they take Barkley, that still leaves Chubb for the Browns since the Jets are clearly taking a QB. 

It seems very unlikely the Giants will draft a QB with that pick. They just paid out a $5m roster bonus to Eli yesterday and the ownership has seemingly been steadfast in their intentions of keeping him around for at least a few more years. They still believe they can win with him.

I'm really hoping they draft either Nelson or Chubb. I'd be fine with Barkley, too, but drafting an offensive or defensive lineman at the top of the draft would just make so much more sense. Both are positions of great need, and are more important positions than RB anyways.

Trading the pick is another possibility, but I'm hoping that if they do, it's only because someone was willing to offer an overpay like the Jets just did.
You just never know when you will be high again and it is hard to pass up on a potential franchise altering QB.  I mean the last time the Giants had a top 5 pick, was the Eli draft.  They may pass on a QB, but it seems like the type of move the Browns would make and you never want to be in that company, especially in a draft that is supposed to be pretty deep at the position at the top. 
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Donoghus on March 19, 2018, 03:10:42 PM
If the Giants can get a godfather offer from someone (say the Bills) for that #2 pick, they should jump all over it if they have any hesitation about going QB with 2nd pick.   The Jets set the market with that overpay so the Giants have the starting price for negotiations. 
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: nickagneta on March 19, 2018, 03:12:52 PM
Browns fans are ecstatic with the Jets trade as they now believe they will get their QB at 1 (Darnold is the front runner) and the best non-QB at 4 (Barkley and Chubb are fairly evenly split).  The Giants could still ruin that, but most people seem to think the Giants will either take a QB at 2 or trade the pick to a team that will take a QB.  However even if they take Barkley, that still leaves Chubb for the Browns since the Jets are clearly taking a QB. 

It seems very unlikely the Giants will draft a QB with that pick. They just paid out a $5m roster bonus to Eli yesterday and the ownership has seemingly been steadfast in their intentions of keeping him around for at least a few more years. They still believe they can win with him.

I'm really hoping they draft either Nelson or Chubb. I'd be fine with Barkley, too, but drafting an offensive or defensive lineman at the top of the draft would just make so much more sense. Both are positions of great need, and are more important positions than RB anyways.

Trading the pick is another possibility, but I'm hoping that if they do, it's only because someone was willing to offer an overpay like the Jets just did.
You just never know when you will be high again and it is hard to pass up on a potential franchise altering QB.  I mean the last time the Giants had a top 5 pick, was the Eli draft.  They may pass on a QB, but it seems like the type of move the Browns would make and you never want to be in that company, especially in a draft that is supposed to be pretty deep at the position at the top.
If the NFL draft has proven anything its that drafting a QB at the top of the draft doesn't mean you are drafting a franchise altering QB and its proven you can draft franchise altering QBs in just about any round.

I can see where a team could value a high quality DE or OL over a QB when they already have a QB, this high in the draft.

The NFL has to be hoping that each NY team takes a QB though. As they develop the comparisons to each other, both being young QBs in NY at the same time, will drive storylines in the NFL for a decade, if they are good.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Moranis on March 19, 2018, 03:55:37 PM
Browns fans are ecstatic with the Jets trade as they now believe they will get their QB at 1 (Darnold is the front runner) and the best non-QB at 4 (Barkley and Chubb are fairly evenly split).  The Giants could still ruin that, but most people seem to think the Giants will either take a QB at 2 or trade the pick to a team that will take a QB.  However even if they take Barkley, that still leaves Chubb for the Browns since the Jets are clearly taking a QB. 

It seems very unlikely the Giants will draft a QB with that pick. They just paid out a $5m roster bonus to Eli yesterday and the ownership has seemingly been steadfast in their intentions of keeping him around for at least a few more years. They still believe they can win with him.

I'm really hoping they draft either Nelson or Chubb. I'd be fine with Barkley, too, but drafting an offensive or defensive lineman at the top of the draft would just make so much more sense. Both are positions of great need, and are more important positions than RB anyways.

Trading the pick is another possibility, but I'm hoping that if they do, it's only because someone was willing to offer an overpay like the Jets just did.
You just never know when you will be high again and it is hard to pass up on a potential franchise altering QB.  I mean the last time the Giants had a top 5 pick, was the Eli draft.  They may pass on a QB, but it seems like the type of move the Browns would make and you never want to be in that company, especially in a draft that is supposed to be pretty deep at the position at the top.
If the NFL draft has proven anything its that drafting a QB at the top of the draft doesn't mean you are drafting a franchise altering QB and its proven you can draft franchise altering QBs in just about any round.

I can see where a team could value a high quality DE or OL over a QB when they already have a QB, this high in the draft.

The NFL has to be hoping that each NY team takes a QB though. As they develop the comparisons to each other, both being young QBs in NY at the same time, will drive storylines in the NFL for a decade, if they are good.
I'd have no issue with the Giants not taking a QB if Eli was younger or wasn't showing significant signs of aging, but he is trending downward and you usually don't stop a multiple year trend at his age.  I can totally see them giving a last hurrah (while still drafting his replacement at 2), but that seems like what this is, and frankly even at his best Eli was never a guy consistently good enough that you could always count on him like you could with his brother, Brady, and Brees.  I mean his record as a starter is 111-103.  If not for the 2 Super Bowl wins, he would never have a shot at the HOF (and even with the 2 Super Bowls might not even make it).  Eli was a good QB with impeccable health and a long career, but he isn't worth the Giants heavily investing in him at age 37. 
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Bucketgetter on March 19, 2018, 06:29:47 PM
Browns fans are ecstatic with the Jets trade as they now believe they will get their QB at 1 (Darnold is the front runner) and the best non-QB at 4 (Barkley and Chubb are fairly evenly split).  The Giants could still ruin that, but most people seem to think the Giants will either take a QB at 2 or trade the pick to a team that will take a QB.  However even if they take Barkley, that still leaves Chubb for the Browns since the Jets are clearly taking a QB. 

It seems very unlikely the Giants will draft a QB with that pick. They just paid out a $5m roster bonus to Eli yesterday and the ownership has seemingly been steadfast in their intentions of keeping him around for at least a few more years. They still believe they can win with him.

I'm really hoping they draft either Nelson or Chubb. I'd be fine with Barkley, too, but drafting an offensive or defensive lineman at the top of the draft would just make so much more sense. Both are positions of great need, and are more important positions than RB anyways.

Trading the pick is another possibility, but I'm hoping that if they do, it's only because someone was willing to offer an overpay like the Jets just did.
You just never know when you will be high again and it is hard to pass up on a potential franchise altering QB.  I mean the last time the Giants had a top 5 pick, was the Eli draft.  They may pass on a QB, but it seems like the type of move the Browns would make and you never want to be in that company, especially in a draft that is supposed to be pretty deep at the position at the top.
If the NFL draft has proven anything its that drafting a QB at the top of the draft doesn't mean you are drafting a franchise altering QB and its proven you can draft franchise altering QBs in just about any round.

I can see where a team could value a high quality DE or OL over a QB when they already have a QB, this high in the draft.

The NFL has to be hoping that each NY team takes a QB though. As they develop the comparisons to each other, both being young QBs in NY at the same time, will drive storylines in the NFL for a decade, if they are good.
I'd have no issue with the Giants not taking a QB if Eli was younger or wasn't showing significant signs of aging, but he is trending downward and you usually don't stop a multiple year trend at his age.  I can totally see them giving a last hurrah (while still drafting his replacement at 2), but that seems like what this is, and frankly even at his best Eli was never a guy consistently good enough that you could always count on him like you could with his brother, Brady, and Brees.  I mean his record as a starter is 111-103.  If not for the 2 Super Bowl wins, he would never have a shot at the HOF (and even with the 2 Super Bowls might not even make it).  Eli was a good QB with impeccable health and a long career, but he isn't worth the Giants heavily investing in him at age 37.
Well not only do they have their starter right now in Eli, but they also have Davis Webb, who they are high on and took in the 3rd round last year. Plus none of these quarterback prospects are can't miss prospects. The real blue chip guys are Chubb and Barkley. Plus the Giants have a lot of holes, it's not like they're a QB away from being contenders. Add in the fact that they could potentially trade down, land a draft pick haul, and still pick one of their guys, it would be very surprising if the Giants stay at 2 and take a QB.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: KGs Knee on March 19, 2018, 06:50:57 PM
Browns fans are ecstatic with the Jets trade as they now believe they will get their QB at 1 (Darnold is the front runner) and the best non-QB at 4 (Barkley and Chubb are fairly evenly split).  The Giants could still ruin that, but most people seem to think the Giants will either take a QB at 2 or trade the pick to a team that will take a QB.  However even if they take Barkley, that still leaves Chubb for the Browns since the Jets are clearly taking a QB. 

It seems very unlikely the Giants will draft a QB with that pick. They just paid out a $5m roster bonus to Eli yesterday and the ownership has seemingly been steadfast in their intentions of keeping him around for at least a few more years. They still believe they can win with him.

I'm really hoping they draft either Nelson or Chubb. I'd be fine with Barkley, too, but drafting an offensive or defensive lineman at the top of the draft would just make so much more sense. Both are positions of great need, and are more important positions than RB anyways.

Trading the pick is another possibility, but I'm hoping that if they do, it's only because someone was willing to offer an overpay like the Jets just did.
You just never know when you will be high again and it is hard to pass up on a potential franchise altering QB.  I mean the last time the Giants had a top 5 pick, was the Eli draft.  They may pass on a QB, but it seems like the type of move the Browns would make and you never want to be in that company, especially in a draft that is supposed to be pretty deep at the position at the top.
If the NFL draft has proven anything its that drafting a QB at the top of the draft doesn't mean you are drafting a franchise altering QB and its proven you can draft franchise altering QBs in just about any round.

I can see where a team could value a high quality DE or OL over a QB when they already have a QB, this high in the draft.

The NFL has to be hoping that each NY team takes a QB though. As they develop the comparisons to each other, both being young QBs in NY at the same time, will drive storylines in the NFL for a decade, if they are good.
I'd have no issue with the Giants not taking a QB if Eli was younger or wasn't showing significant signs of aging, but he is trending downward and you usually don't stop a multiple year trend at his age.  I can totally see them giving a last hurrah (while still drafting his replacement at 2), but that seems like what this is, and frankly even at his best Eli was never a guy consistently good enough that you could always count on him like you could with his brother, Brady, and Brees.  I mean his record as a starter is 111-103.  If not for the 2 Super Bowl wins, he would never have a shot at the HOF (and even with the 2 Super Bowls might not even make it).  Eli was a good QB with impeccable health and a long career, but he isn't worth the Giants heavily investing in him at age 37. 

Well, it seems pretty clear their ownership doesn't share your view of Eli. Paying him the $5m roster bonus pretty much confirms that.

I'd also argue his "decline" has had a lot more to do with his offensive line being complete garbage the last few seasons. Hopefully they've done enough to rectify that.

Also, I don't really view any of the QB's in this draft as can't miss prospects. None of them are on the level Eli was considered as being on coming out of Ole Miss.

Getting an elite DE or OL just seems like the more prudent choice.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Moranis on March 20, 2018, 06:49:27 AM
Browns fans are ecstatic with the Jets trade as they now believe they will get their QB at 1 (Darnold is the front runner) and the best non-QB at 4 (Barkley and Chubb are fairly evenly split).  The Giants could still ruin that, but most people seem to think the Giants will either take a QB at 2 or trade the pick to a team that will take a QB.  However even if they take Barkley, that still leaves Chubb for the Browns since the Jets are clearly taking a QB. 

It seems very unlikely the Giants will draft a QB with that pick. They just paid out a $5m roster bonus to Eli yesterday and the ownership has seemingly been steadfast in their intentions of keeping him around for at least a few more years. They still believe they can win with him.

I'm really hoping they draft either Nelson or Chubb. I'd be fine with Barkley, too, but drafting an offensive or defensive lineman at the top of the draft would just make so much more sense. Both are positions of great need, and are more important positions than RB anyways.

Trading the pick is another possibility, but I'm hoping that if they do, it's only because someone was willing to offer an overpay like the Jets just did.
You just never know when you will be high again and it is hard to pass up on a potential franchise altering QB.  I mean the last time the Giants had a top 5 pick, was the Eli draft.  They may pass on a QB, but it seems like the type of move the Browns would make and you never want to be in that company, especially in a draft that is supposed to be pretty deep at the position at the top.
If the NFL draft has proven anything its that drafting a QB at the top of the draft doesn't mean you are drafting a franchise altering QB and its proven you can draft franchise altering QBs in just about any round.

I can see where a team could value a high quality DE or OL over a QB when they already have a QB, this high in the draft.

The NFL has to be hoping that each NY team takes a QB though. As they develop the comparisons to each other, both being young QBs in NY at the same time, will drive storylines in the NFL for a decade, if they are good.
I'd have no issue with the Giants not taking a QB if Eli was younger or wasn't showing significant signs of aging, but he is trending downward and you usually don't stop a multiple year trend at his age.  I can totally see them giving a last hurrah (while still drafting his replacement at 2), but that seems like what this is, and frankly even at his best Eli was never a guy consistently good enough that you could always count on him like you could with his brother, Brady, and Brees.  I mean his record as a starter is 111-103.  If not for the 2 Super Bowl wins, he would never have a shot at the HOF (and even with the 2 Super Bowls might not even make it).  Eli was a good QB with impeccable health and a long career, but he isn't worth the Giants heavily investing in him at age 37. 

Well, it seems pretty clear their ownership doesn't share your view of Eli. Paying him the $5m roster bonus pretty much confirms that.

I'd also argue his "decline" has had a lot more to do with his offensive line being complete garbage the last few seasons. Hopefully they've done enough to rectify that.

Also, I don't really view any of the QB's in this draft as can't miss prospects. None of them are on the level Eli was considered as being on coming out of Ole Miss.

Getting an elite DE or OL just seems like the more prudent choice.
them picking up the roster bonus doesn't say that at all, it just says Eli will be on the team this season.  I mean the Browns traded draft picks in this draft to pick up a mid tier starting QB and yet they almost certainly will draft a QB at 1.  Basically all of the major sports sites list QB as a draft need for the Giants.  The draft is loaded with top tier prospects.  If the Giants stay there the odds that they pick a QB at 2 is way over 50%.  They might not of course, but all signs point that way.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: kozlodoev on March 20, 2018, 10:17:25 AM
7-time Patriot Pro-Bowler Matthew Slater in Pittsburgh for a visit, sources say.

Holy molyyyy
Well, they got Patterson who plays gunner, so Slater might be gone.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: KGs Knee on March 20, 2018, 11:15:56 AM
Browns fans are ecstatic with the Jets trade as they now believe they will get their QB at 1 (Darnold is the front runner) and the best non-QB at 4 (Barkley and Chubb are fairly evenly split).  The Giants could still ruin that, but most people seem to think the Giants will either take a QB at 2 or trade the pick to a team that will take a QB.  However even if they take Barkley, that still leaves Chubb for the Browns since the Jets are clearly taking a QB. 

It seems very unlikely the Giants will draft a QB with that pick. They just paid out a $5m roster bonus to Eli yesterday and the ownership has seemingly been steadfast in their intentions of keeping him around for at least a few more years. They still believe they can win with him.

I'm really hoping they draft either Nelson or Chubb. I'd be fine with Barkley, too, but drafting an offensive or defensive lineman at the top of the draft would just make so much more sense. Both are positions of great need, and are more important positions than RB anyways.

Trading the pick is another possibility, but I'm hoping that if they do, it's only because someone was willing to offer an overpay like the Jets just did.
You just never know when you will be high again and it is hard to pass up on a potential franchise altering QB.  I mean the last time the Giants had a top 5 pick, was the Eli draft.  They may pass on a QB, but it seems like the type of move the Browns would make and you never want to be in that company, especially in a draft that is supposed to be pretty deep at the position at the top.
If the NFL draft has proven anything its that drafting a QB at the top of the draft doesn't mean you are drafting a franchise altering QB and its proven you can draft franchise altering QBs in just about any round.

I can see where a team could value a high quality DE or OL over a QB when they already have a QB, this high in the draft.

The NFL has to be hoping that each NY team takes a QB though. As they develop the comparisons to each other, both being young QBs in NY at the same time, will drive storylines in the NFL for a decade, if they are good.
I'd have no issue with the Giants not taking a QB if Eli was younger or wasn't showing significant signs of aging, but he is trending downward and you usually don't stop a multiple year trend at his age.  I can totally see them giving a last hurrah (while still drafting his replacement at 2), but that seems like what this is, and frankly even at his best Eli was never a guy consistently good enough that you could always count on him like you could with his brother, Brady, and Brees.  I mean his record as a starter is 111-103.  If not for the 2 Super Bowl wins, he would never have a shot at the HOF (and even with the 2 Super Bowls might not even make it).  Eli was a good QB with impeccable health and a long career, but he isn't worth the Giants heavily investing in him at age 37. 

Well, it seems pretty clear their ownership doesn't share your view of Eli. Paying him the $5m roster bonus pretty much confirms that.

I'd also argue his "decline" has had a lot more to do with his offensive line being complete garbage the last few seasons. Hopefully they've done enough to rectify that.

Also, I don't really view any of the QB's in this draft as can't miss prospects. None of them are on the level Eli was considered as being on coming out of Ole Miss.

Getting an elite DE or OL just seems like the more prudent choice.
them picking up the roster bonus doesn't say that at all, it just says Eli will be on the team this season.  I mean the Browns traded draft picks in this draft to pick up a mid tier starting QB and yet they almost certainly will draft a QB at 1.  Basically all of the major sports sites list QB as a draft need for the Giants.  The draft is loaded with top tier prospects.  If the Giants stay there the odds that they pick a QB at 2 is way over 50%.  They might not of course, but all signs point that way.

You don't pay out that kind of roster bonus to a player who isn't part of your future, and you don't draft a QB with the #2 pick if you are going to have them sit behind someone else for a couple years. All signs coming out of NY seem to point to them selecting someone else besides a QB. Anyone who is paying attention can see this.

The only way I see the Giants taking a QB is if the Browns screw up and don't draft Darnold, as he really the only one that even remotely resembles a "can't miss franchise QB".   Even then, I think the Giants would be more likely to trade the pick for a haul that exceeds what the Jets received.

The Browns are in a great position, having picks 1 and 4. But expecting them to get the best QB and best non-QB, seems like wishful thinking.   The Giants would be making a huge mistake to take the 2nd best QB when they have other bigger needs. And I don't expect them to make such mistake, they usually make smarter decisions than that.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: smokeablount on March 20, 2018, 11:24:29 AM
Browns fans are ecstatic with the Jets trade as they now believe they will get their QB at 1 (Darnold is the front runner) and the best non-QB at 4 (Barkley and Chubb are fairly evenly split).  The Giants could still ruin that, but most people seem to think the Giants will either take a QB at 2 or trade the pick to a team that will take a QB.  However even if they take Barkley, that still leaves Chubb for the Browns since the Jets are clearly taking a QB. 

It seems very unlikely the Giants will draft a QB with that pick. They just paid out a $5m roster bonus to Eli yesterday and the ownership has seemingly been steadfast in their intentions of keeping him around for at least a few more years. They still believe they can win with him.

I'm really hoping they draft either Nelson or Chubb. I'd be fine with Barkley, too, but drafting an offensive or defensive lineman at the top of the draft would just make so much more sense. Both are positions of great need, and are more important positions than RB anyways.

Trading the pick is another possibility, but I'm hoping that if they do, it's only because someone was willing to offer an overpay like the Jets just did.
You just never know when you will be high again and it is hard to pass up on a potential franchise altering QB.  I mean the last time the Giants had a top 5 pick, was the Eli draft.  They may pass on a QB, but it seems like the type of move the Browns would make and you never want to be in that company, especially in a draft that is supposed to be pretty deep at the position at the top.
If the NFL draft has proven anything its that drafting a QB at the top of the draft doesn't mean you are drafting a franchise altering QB and its proven you can draft franchise altering QBs in just about any round.

I can see where a team could value a high quality DE or OL over a QB when they already have a QB, this high in the draft.

The NFL has to be hoping that each NY team takes a QB though. As they develop the comparisons to each other, both being young QBs in NY at the same time, will drive storylines in the NFL for a decade, if they are good.
I'd have no issue with the Giants not taking a QB if Eli was younger or wasn't showing significant signs of aging, but he is trending downward and you usually don't stop a multiple year trend at his age.  I can totally see them giving a last hurrah (while still drafting his replacement at 2), but that seems like what this is, and frankly even at his best Eli was never a guy consistently good enough that you could always count on him like you could with his brother, Brady, and Brees.  I mean his record as a starter is 111-103.  If not for the 2 Super Bowl wins, he would never have a shot at the HOF (and even with the 2 Super Bowls might not even make it).  Eli was a good QB with impeccable health and a long career, but he isn't worth the Giants heavily investing in him at age 37. 

Well, it seems pretty clear their ownership doesn't share your view of Eli. Paying him the $5m roster bonus pretty much confirms that.

I'd also argue his "decline" has had a lot more to do with his offensive line being complete garbage the last few seasons. Hopefully they've done enough to rectify that.

Also, I don't really view any of the QB's in this draft as can't miss prospects. None of them are on the level Eli was considered as being on coming out of Ole Miss.

Getting an elite DE or OL just seems like the more prudent choice.
them picking up the roster bonus doesn't say that at all, it just says Eli will be on the team this season.  I mean the Browns traded draft picks in this draft to pick up a mid tier starting QB and yet they almost certainly will draft a QB at 1.  Basically all of the major sports sites list QB as a draft need for the Giants.  The draft is loaded with top tier prospects.  If the Giants stay there the odds that they pick a QB at 2 is way over 50%.  They might not of course, but all signs point that way.

You don't pay out that kind of roster bonus to a player who isn't part of your future, and you don't draft a QB with the #2 pick if you are going to have them sit behind someone else for a couple years. All signs coming out of NY seem to point to them selecting someone else besides a QB. Anyone who is paying attention can see this.

The only way I see the Giants taking a QB is if the Browns screw up and don't draft Darnold, as he really the only one that even remotely resembles a "can't miss franchise QB".   Even then, I think the Giants would be more likely to trade the pick for a haul that exceeds what the Jets received.

The Browns are in a great position, having picks 1 and 4. But expecting them to get the best QB and best non-QB, seems like wishful thinking.   The Giants would be making a huge mistake to take the 2nd best QB when they have other bigger needs. And I don't expect them to make such mistake, they usually make smarter decisions than that.

A roster bonus doesn't count toward the cap and $5m is peanuts to an NFL owner.  In New York, $5m is well worth preventing the fan base from revolting after choosing to get worse than 1-15 or whatever they finished last year.  And maybe in recent years a QB getting drafted #2 means he'll start right away, but certainly QBs get drafted high and sit for a year or two.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Moranis on March 20, 2018, 11:45:39 AM
Browns fans are ecstatic with the Jets trade as they now believe they will get their QB at 1 (Darnold is the front runner) and the best non-QB at 4 (Barkley and Chubb are fairly evenly split).  The Giants could still ruin that, but most people seem to think the Giants will either take a QB at 2 or trade the pick to a team that will take a QB.  However even if they take Barkley, that still leaves Chubb for the Browns since the Jets are clearly taking a QB. 

It seems very unlikely the Giants will draft a QB with that pick. They just paid out a $5m roster bonus to Eli yesterday and the ownership has seemingly been steadfast in their intentions of keeping him around for at least a few more years. They still believe they can win with him.

I'm really hoping they draft either Nelson or Chubb. I'd be fine with Barkley, too, but drafting an offensive or defensive lineman at the top of the draft would just make so much more sense. Both are positions of great need, and are more important positions than RB anyways.

Trading the pick is another possibility, but I'm hoping that if they do, it's only because someone was willing to offer an overpay like the Jets just did.
You just never know when you will be high again and it is hard to pass up on a potential franchise altering QB.  I mean the last time the Giants had a top 5 pick, was the Eli draft.  They may pass on a QB, but it seems like the type of move the Browns would make and you never want to be in that company, especially in a draft that is supposed to be pretty deep at the position at the top.
If the NFL draft has proven anything its that drafting a QB at the top of the draft doesn't mean you are drafting a franchise altering QB and its proven you can draft franchise altering QBs in just about any round.

I can see where a team could value a high quality DE or OL over a QB when they already have a QB, this high in the draft.

The NFL has to be hoping that each NY team takes a QB though. As they develop the comparisons to each other, both being young QBs in NY at the same time, will drive storylines in the NFL for a decade, if they are good.
I'd have no issue with the Giants not taking a QB if Eli was younger or wasn't showing significant signs of aging, but he is trending downward and you usually don't stop a multiple year trend at his age.  I can totally see them giving a last hurrah (while still drafting his replacement at 2), but that seems like what this is, and frankly even at his best Eli was never a guy consistently good enough that you could always count on him like you could with his brother, Brady, and Brees.  I mean his record as a starter is 111-103.  If not for the 2 Super Bowl wins, he would never have a shot at the HOF (and even with the 2 Super Bowls might not even make it).  Eli was a good QB with impeccable health and a long career, but he isn't worth the Giants heavily investing in him at age 37. 

Well, it seems pretty clear their ownership doesn't share your view of Eli. Paying him the $5m roster bonus pretty much confirms that.

I'd also argue his "decline" has had a lot more to do with his offensive line being complete garbage the last few seasons. Hopefully they've done enough to rectify that.

Also, I don't really view any of the QB's in this draft as can't miss prospects. None of them are on the level Eli was considered as being on coming out of Ole Miss.

Getting an elite DE or OL just seems like the more prudent choice.
them picking up the roster bonus doesn't say that at all, it just says Eli will be on the team this season.  I mean the Browns traded draft picks in this draft to pick up a mid tier starting QB and yet they almost certainly will draft a QB at 1.  Basically all of the major sports sites list QB as a draft need for the Giants.  The draft is loaded with top tier prospects.  If the Giants stay there the odds that they pick a QB at 2 is way over 50%.  They might not of course, but all signs point that way.

You don't pay out that kind of roster bonus to a player who isn't part of your future, and you don't draft a QB with the #2 pick if you are going to have them sit behind someone else for a couple years. All signs coming out of NY seem to point to them selecting someone else besides a QB. Anyone who is paying attention can see this.

The only way I see the Giants taking a QB is if the Browns screw up and don't draft Darnold, as he really the only one that even remotely resembles a "can't miss franchise QB".   Even then, I think the Giants would be more likely to trade the pick for a haul that exceeds what the Jets received.

The Browns are in a great position, having picks 1 and 4. But expecting them to get the best QB and best non-QB, seems like wishful thinking.   The Giants would be making a huge mistake to take the 2nd best QB when they have other bigger needs. And I don't expect them to make such mistake, they usually make smarter decisions than that.
They picked up the roster bonus because it is either pick up the roster bonus or cut Eli, leaving them with Davis Webb and a rookie, which is a terrible spot to be in.  In addition, the dead cap money on Eli would have been over 12 million in lost money.  Cutting him just didn't make sense and with the roster bonus, Eli's contract is 22.2 million next year.  It isn't a completely crippling contract. And they can cut him next off season with a dead cap hit of just 6.2 million.

I guess only time will tell, but if they stay at 2 and pass on a QB, they will almost certainly be drafting one in the first round next year, and probably from a much worse draft spot, which could easily lead to them picking QB's off and on for years. 
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: KGs Knee on March 20, 2018, 12:01:08 PM
Browns fans are ecstatic with the Jets trade as they now believe they will get their QB at 1 (Darnold is the front runner) and the best non-QB at 4 (Barkley and Chubb are fairly evenly split).  The Giants could still ruin that, but most people seem to think the Giants will either take a QB at 2 or trade the pick to a team that will take a QB.  However even if they take Barkley, that still leaves Chubb for the Browns since the Jets are clearly taking a QB. 

It seems very unlikely the Giants will draft a QB with that pick. They just paid out a $5m roster bonus to Eli yesterday and the ownership has seemingly been steadfast in their intentions of keeping him around for at least a few more years. They still believe they can win with him.

I'm really hoping they draft either Nelson or Chubb. I'd be fine with Barkley, too, but drafting an offensive or defensive lineman at the top of the draft would just make so much more sense. Both are positions of great need, and are more important positions than RB anyways.

Trading the pick is another possibility, but I'm hoping that if they do, it's only because someone was willing to offer an overpay like the Jets just did.
You just never know when you will be high again and it is hard to pass up on a potential franchise altering QB.  I mean the last time the Giants had a top 5 pick, was the Eli draft.  They may pass on a QB, but it seems like the type of move the Browns would make and you never want to be in that company, especially in a draft that is supposed to be pretty deep at the position at the top.
If the NFL draft has proven anything its that drafting a QB at the top of the draft doesn't mean you are drafting a franchise altering QB and its proven you can draft franchise altering QBs in just about any round.

I can see where a team could value a high quality DE or OL over a QB when they already have a QB, this high in the draft.

The NFL has to be hoping that each NY team takes a QB though. As they develop the comparisons to each other, both being young QBs in NY at the same time, will drive storylines in the NFL for a decade, if they are good.
I'd have no issue with the Giants not taking a QB if Eli was younger or wasn't showing significant signs of aging, but he is trending downward and you usually don't stop a multiple year trend at his age.  I can totally see them giving a last hurrah (while still drafting his replacement at 2), but that seems like what this is, and frankly even at his best Eli was never a guy consistently good enough that you could always count on him like you could with his brother, Brady, and Brees.  I mean his record as a starter is 111-103.  If not for the 2 Super Bowl wins, he would never have a shot at the HOF (and even with the 2 Super Bowls might not even make it).  Eli was a good QB with impeccable health and a long career, but he isn't worth the Giants heavily investing in him at age 37. 

Well, it seems pretty clear their ownership doesn't share your view of Eli. Paying him the $5m roster bonus pretty much confirms that.

I'd also argue his "decline" has had a lot more to do with his offensive line being complete garbage the last few seasons. Hopefully they've done enough to rectify that.

Also, I don't really view any of the QB's in this draft as can't miss prospects. None of them are on the level Eli was considered as being on coming out of Ole Miss.

Getting an elite DE or OL just seems like the more prudent choice.
them picking up the roster bonus doesn't say that at all, it just says Eli will be on the team this season.  I mean the Browns traded draft picks in this draft to pick up a mid tier starting QB and yet they almost certainly will draft a QB at 1.  Basically all of the major sports sites list QB as a draft need for the Giants.  The draft is loaded with top tier prospects.  If the Giants stay there the odds that they pick a QB at 2 is way over 50%.  They might not of course, but all signs point that way.

You don't pay out that kind of roster bonus to a player who isn't part of your future, and you don't draft a QB with the #2 pick if you are going to have them sit behind someone else for a couple years. All signs coming out of NY seem to point to them selecting someone else besides a QB. Anyone who is paying attention can see this.

The only way I see the Giants taking a QB is if the Browns screw up and don't draft Darnold, as he really the only one that even remotely resembles a "can't miss franchise QB".   Even then, I think the Giants would be more likely to trade the pick for a haul that exceeds what the Jets received.

The Browns are in a great position, having picks 1 and 4. But expecting them to get the best QB and best non-QB, seems like wishful thinking.   The Giants would be making a huge mistake to take the 2nd best QB when they have other bigger needs. And I don't expect them to make such mistake, they usually make smarter decisions than that.

A roster bonus doesn't count toward the cap and $5m is peanuts to an NFL owner.  In New York, $5m is well worth preventing the fan base from revolting after choosing to get worse than 1-15 or whatever they finished last year.  And maybe in recent years a QB getting drafted #2 means he'll start right away, but certainly QBs get drafted high and sit for a year or two.

Eli's roster bonus absolutely counts against the Giants salary cap. It's right here: http://spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/eli-manning-4348/

The bottom line is, the Giants have made it known they believe Eli still has multiple years left as a guy that can lead the team, with new head coach Mike Shurmur going so far as to state, "We believe Eli has got years left as a starting quarterback in this league, and we're excited that he's here". Also, you must remember, the former GM and head coach were both fired literally the week after Eli was benched for a single game. Ownership was furious about that. So right or wrong, Eli is clearly their guy.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Moranis on March 20, 2018, 12:37:28 PM
Browns fans are ecstatic with the Jets trade as they now believe they will get their QB at 1 (Darnold is the front runner) and the best non-QB at 4 (Barkley and Chubb are fairly evenly split).  The Giants could still ruin that, but most people seem to think the Giants will either take a QB at 2 or trade the pick to a team that will take a QB.  However even if they take Barkley, that still leaves Chubb for the Browns since the Jets are clearly taking a QB. 

It seems very unlikely the Giants will draft a QB with that pick. They just paid out a $5m roster bonus to Eli yesterday and the ownership has seemingly been steadfast in their intentions of keeping him around for at least a few more years. They still believe they can win with him.

I'm really hoping they draft either Nelson or Chubb. I'd be fine with Barkley, too, but drafting an offensive or defensive lineman at the top of the draft would just make so much more sense. Both are positions of great need, and are more important positions than RB anyways.

Trading the pick is another possibility, but I'm hoping that if they do, it's only because someone was willing to offer an overpay like the Jets just did.
You just never know when you will be high again and it is hard to pass up on a potential franchise altering QB.  I mean the last time the Giants had a top 5 pick, was the Eli draft.  They may pass on a QB, but it seems like the type of move the Browns would make and you never want to be in that company, especially in a draft that is supposed to be pretty deep at the position at the top.
If the NFL draft has proven anything its that drafting a QB at the top of the draft doesn't mean you are drafting a franchise altering QB and its proven you can draft franchise altering QBs in just about any round.

I can see where a team could value a high quality DE or OL over a QB when they already have a QB, this high in the draft.

The NFL has to be hoping that each NY team takes a QB though. As they develop the comparisons to each other, both being young QBs in NY at the same time, will drive storylines in the NFL for a decade, if they are good.
I'd have no issue with the Giants not taking a QB if Eli was younger or wasn't showing significant signs of aging, but he is trending downward and you usually don't stop a multiple year trend at his age.  I can totally see them giving a last hurrah (while still drafting his replacement at 2), but that seems like what this is, and frankly even at his best Eli was never a guy consistently good enough that you could always count on him like you could with his brother, Brady, and Brees.  I mean his record as a starter is 111-103.  If not for the 2 Super Bowl wins, he would never have a shot at the HOF (and even with the 2 Super Bowls might not even make it).  Eli was a good QB with impeccable health and a long career, but he isn't worth the Giants heavily investing in him at age 37. 

Well, it seems pretty clear their ownership doesn't share your view of Eli. Paying him the $5m roster bonus pretty much confirms that.

I'd also argue his "decline" has had a lot more to do with his offensive line being complete garbage the last few seasons. Hopefully they've done enough to rectify that.

Also, I don't really view any of the QB's in this draft as can't miss prospects. None of them are on the level Eli was considered as being on coming out of Ole Miss.

Getting an elite DE or OL just seems like the more prudent choice.
them picking up the roster bonus doesn't say that at all, it just says Eli will be on the team this season.  I mean the Browns traded draft picks in this draft to pick up a mid tier starting QB and yet they almost certainly will draft a QB at 1.  Basically all of the major sports sites list QB as a draft need for the Giants.  The draft is loaded with top tier prospects.  If the Giants stay there the odds that they pick a QB at 2 is way over 50%.  They might not of course, but all signs point that way.

You don't pay out that kind of roster bonus to a player who isn't part of your future, and you don't draft a QB with the #2 pick if you are going to have them sit behind someone else for a couple years. All signs coming out of NY seem to point to them selecting someone else besides a QB. Anyone who is paying attention can see this.

The only way I see the Giants taking a QB is if the Browns screw up and don't draft Darnold, as he really the only one that even remotely resembles a "can't miss franchise QB".   Even then, I think the Giants would be more likely to trade the pick for a haul that exceeds what the Jets received.

The Browns are in a great position, having picks 1 and 4. But expecting them to get the best QB and best non-QB, seems like wishful thinking.   The Giants would be making a huge mistake to take the 2nd best QB when they have other bigger needs. And I don't expect them to make such mistake, they usually make smarter decisions than that.

A roster bonus doesn't count toward the cap and $5m is peanuts to an NFL owner.  In New York, $5m is well worth preventing the fan base from revolting after choosing to get worse than 1-15 or whatever they finished last year.  And maybe in recent years a QB getting drafted #2 means he'll start right away, but certainly QBs get drafted high and sit for a year or two.

Eli's roster bonus absolutely counts against the Giants salary cap. It's right here: http://spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/eli-manning-4348/

The bottom line is, the Giants have made it known they believe Eli still has multiple years left as a guy that can lead the team, with new head coach Mike Shurmur going so far as to state, "We believe Eli has got years left as a starting quarterback in this league, and we're excited that he's here". Also, you must remember, the former GM and head coach were both fired literally the week after Eli was benched for a single game. Ownership was furious about that. So right or wrong, Eli is clearly their guy.
What is the new coach supposed to say?  I fully expect Eli to start at QB for the year, while the QB they draft at 2 learns behind him.  I mean that is exactly what the Giants did with Eli.  They brought Kurt Warner in to start until they felt Eli was ready. 
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: KGs Knee on March 20, 2018, 01:05:35 PM
Browns fans are ecstatic with the Jets trade as they now believe they will get their QB at 1 (Darnold is the front runner) and the best non-QB at 4 (Barkley and Chubb are fairly evenly split).  The Giants could still ruin that, but most people seem to think the Giants will either take a QB at 2 or trade the pick to a team that will take a QB.  However even if they take Barkley, that still leaves Chubb for the Browns since the Jets are clearly taking a QB. 

It seems very unlikely the Giants will draft a QB with that pick. They just paid out a $5m roster bonus to Eli yesterday and the ownership has seemingly been steadfast in their intentions of keeping him around for at least a few more years. They still believe they can win with him.

I'm really hoping they draft either Nelson or Chubb. I'd be fine with Barkley, too, but drafting an offensive or defensive lineman at the top of the draft would just make so much more sense. Both are positions of great need, and are more important positions than RB anyways.

Trading the pick is another possibility, but I'm hoping that if they do, it's only because someone was willing to offer an overpay like the Jets just did.
You just never know when you will be high again and it is hard to pass up on a potential franchise altering QB.  I mean the last time the Giants had a top 5 pick, was the Eli draft.  They may pass on a QB, but it seems like the type of move the Browns would make and you never want to be in that company, especially in a draft that is supposed to be pretty deep at the position at the top.
If the NFL draft has proven anything its that drafting a QB at the top of the draft doesn't mean you are drafting a franchise altering QB and its proven you can draft franchise altering QBs in just about any round.

I can see where a team could value a high quality DE or OL over a QB when they already have a QB, this high in the draft.

The NFL has to be hoping that each NY team takes a QB though. As they develop the comparisons to each other, both being young QBs in NY at the same time, will drive storylines in the NFL for a decade, if they are good.
I'd have no issue with the Giants not taking a QB if Eli was younger or wasn't showing significant signs of aging, but he is trending downward and you usually don't stop a multiple year trend at his age.  I can totally see them giving a last hurrah (while still drafting his replacement at 2), but that seems like what this is, and frankly even at his best Eli was never a guy consistently good enough that you could always count on him like you could with his brother, Brady, and Brees.  I mean his record as a starter is 111-103.  If not for the 2 Super Bowl wins, he would never have a shot at the HOF (and even with the 2 Super Bowls might not even make it).  Eli was a good QB with impeccable health and a long career, but he isn't worth the Giants heavily investing in him at age 37. 

Well, it seems pretty clear their ownership doesn't share your view of Eli. Paying him the $5m roster bonus pretty much confirms that.

I'd also argue his "decline" has had a lot more to do with his offensive line being complete garbage the last few seasons. Hopefully they've done enough to rectify that.

Also, I don't really view any of the QB's in this draft as can't miss prospects. None of them are on the level Eli was considered as being on coming out of Ole Miss.

Getting an elite DE or OL just seems like the more prudent choice.
them picking up the roster bonus doesn't say that at all, it just says Eli will be on the team this season.  I mean the Browns traded draft picks in this draft to pick up a mid tier starting QB and yet they almost certainly will draft a QB at 1.  Basically all of the major sports sites list QB as a draft need for the Giants.  The draft is loaded with top tier prospects.  If the Giants stay there the odds that they pick a QB at 2 is way over 50%.  They might not of course, but all signs point that way.

You don't pay out that kind of roster bonus to a player who isn't part of your future, and you don't draft a QB with the #2 pick if you are going to have them sit behind someone else for a couple years. All signs coming out of NY seem to point to them selecting someone else besides a QB. Anyone who is paying attention can see this.

The only way I see the Giants taking a QB is if the Browns screw up and don't draft Darnold, as he really the only one that even remotely resembles a "can't miss franchise QB".   Even then, I think the Giants would be more likely to trade the pick for a haul that exceeds what the Jets received.

The Browns are in a great position, having picks 1 and 4. But expecting them to get the best QB and best non-QB, seems like wishful thinking.   The Giants would be making a huge mistake to take the 2nd best QB when they have other bigger needs. And I don't expect them to make such mistake, they usually make smarter decisions than that.

A roster bonus doesn't count toward the cap and $5m is peanuts to an NFL owner.  In New York, $5m is well worth preventing the fan base from revolting after choosing to get worse than 1-15 or whatever they finished last year.  And maybe in recent years a QB getting drafted #2 means he'll start right away, but certainly QBs get drafted high and sit for a year or two.

Eli's roster bonus absolutely counts against the Giants salary cap. It's right here: http://spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/eli-manning-4348/

The bottom line is, the Giants have made it known they believe Eli still has multiple years left as a guy that can lead the team, with new head coach Mike Shurmur going so far as to state, "We believe Eli has got years left as a starting quarterback in this league, and we're excited that he's here". Also, you must remember, the former GM and head coach were both fired literally the week after Eli was benched for a single game. Ownership was furious about that. So right or wrong, Eli is clearly their guy.
What is the new coach supposed to say?  I fully expect Eli to start at QB for the year, while the QB they draft at 2 learns behind him.  I mean that is exactly what the Giants did with Eli.  They brought Kurt Warner in to start until they felt Eli was ready. 

If you can't or aren't willing to recognize the difference between the Giants bringing in an at the time thought to be washed up Kurt Warner to act as a stop gap until Eli was ready (Eli was widely recognized as a true franchise QB, something none of this year's QB's are though to be), and the Giants sticking with said franchise QB of the last decade plus, and building around him, then there's no point in discussing this with you further. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point and are ignoring all the obvious signs.

Literally every action the Giants have taken up until now point to them viewing Eli as someone they can still build around. But even more important than any of that is the simple fact none of the QB's in this draft are good enough to warrant throwing away the opportunity to build around the franchise QB they already have.

We'll see what happens next month.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 20, 2018, 01:40:37 PM
7-time Patriot Pro-Bowler Matthew Slater in Pittsburgh for a visit, sources say.

Holy molyyyy
Well, they got Patterson who plays gunner, so Slater might be gone.
yeah, the Patterson move was not a good sign for Slater, but we also did lose Bademosi who was a great ST guy and Jonathan Jones presumably will play a larger role on defense next year so we probably want to keep him off ST as much as possible. Furthermore, we lost Lewis and Amendola and probably won't bring Reedy back, so we are pretty devoid of guys who can return kicks.

It's possible Patterson was brought in as a response to losing Bademosi/Jones as gunners and Lewis/Reedy as returners rather than in anticipation of losing Slater, but I wouldnt expect Slater back at this point. We already are paying Ebner and Patterson fairly big money to be special teamers.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Moranis on March 20, 2018, 01:53:24 PM
Browns fans are ecstatic with the Jets trade as they now believe they will get their QB at 1 (Darnold is the front runner) and the best non-QB at 4 (Barkley and Chubb are fairly evenly split).  The Giants could still ruin that, but most people seem to think the Giants will either take a QB at 2 or trade the pick to a team that will take a QB.  However even if they take Barkley, that still leaves Chubb for the Browns since the Jets are clearly taking a QB. 

It seems very unlikely the Giants will draft a QB with that pick. They just paid out a $5m roster bonus to Eli yesterday and the ownership has seemingly been steadfast in their intentions of keeping him around for at least a few more years. They still believe they can win with him.

I'm really hoping they draft either Nelson or Chubb. I'd be fine with Barkley, too, but drafting an offensive or defensive lineman at the top of the draft would just make so much more sense. Both are positions of great need, and are more important positions than RB anyways.

Trading the pick is another possibility, but I'm hoping that if they do, it's only because someone was willing to offer an overpay like the Jets just did.
You just never know when you will be high again and it is hard to pass up on a potential franchise altering QB.  I mean the last time the Giants had a top 5 pick, was the Eli draft.  They may pass on a QB, but it seems like the type of move the Browns would make and you never want to be in that company, especially in a draft that is supposed to be pretty deep at the position at the top.
If the NFL draft has proven anything its that drafting a QB at the top of the draft doesn't mean you are drafting a franchise altering QB and its proven you can draft franchise altering QBs in just about any round.

I can see where a team could value a high quality DE or OL over a QB when they already have a QB, this high in the draft.

The NFL has to be hoping that each NY team takes a QB though. As they develop the comparisons to each other, both being young QBs in NY at the same time, will drive storylines in the NFL for a decade, if they are good.
I'd have no issue with the Giants not taking a QB if Eli was younger or wasn't showing significant signs of aging, but he is trending downward and you usually don't stop a multiple year trend at his age.  I can totally see them giving a last hurrah (while still drafting his replacement at 2), but that seems like what this is, and frankly even at his best Eli was never a guy consistently good enough that you could always count on him like you could with his brother, Brady, and Brees.  I mean his record as a starter is 111-103.  If not for the 2 Super Bowl wins, he would never have a shot at the HOF (and even with the 2 Super Bowls might not even make it).  Eli was a good QB with impeccable health and a long career, but he isn't worth the Giants heavily investing in him at age 37. 

Well, it seems pretty clear their ownership doesn't share your view of Eli. Paying him the $5m roster bonus pretty much confirms that.

I'd also argue his "decline" has had a lot more to do with his offensive line being complete garbage the last few seasons. Hopefully they've done enough to rectify that.

Also, I don't really view any of the QB's in this draft as can't miss prospects. None of them are on the level Eli was considered as being on coming out of Ole Miss.

Getting an elite DE or OL just seems like the more prudent choice.
them picking up the roster bonus doesn't say that at all, it just says Eli will be on the team this season.  I mean the Browns traded draft picks in this draft to pick up a mid tier starting QB and yet they almost certainly will draft a QB at 1.  Basically all of the major sports sites list QB as a draft need for the Giants.  The draft is loaded with top tier prospects.  If the Giants stay there the odds that they pick a QB at 2 is way over 50%.  They might not of course, but all signs point that way.

You don't pay out that kind of roster bonus to a player who isn't part of your future, and you don't draft a QB with the #2 pick if you are going to have them sit behind someone else for a couple years. All signs coming out of NY seem to point to them selecting someone else besides a QB. Anyone who is paying attention can see this.

The only way I see the Giants taking a QB is if the Browns screw up and don't draft Darnold, as he really the only one that even remotely resembles a "can't miss franchise QB".   Even then, I think the Giants would be more likely to trade the pick for a haul that exceeds what the Jets received.

The Browns are in a great position, having picks 1 and 4. But expecting them to get the best QB and best non-QB, seems like wishful thinking.   The Giants would be making a huge mistake to take the 2nd best QB when they have other bigger needs. And I don't expect them to make such mistake, they usually make smarter decisions than that.

A roster bonus doesn't count toward the cap and $5m is peanuts to an NFL owner.  In New York, $5m is well worth preventing the fan base from revolting after choosing to get worse than 1-15 or whatever they finished last year.  And maybe in recent years a QB getting drafted #2 means he'll start right away, but certainly QBs get drafted high and sit for a year or two.

Eli's roster bonus absolutely counts against the Giants salary cap. It's right here: http://spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/eli-manning-4348/

The bottom line is, the Giants have made it known they believe Eli still has multiple years left as a guy that can lead the team, with new head coach Mike Shurmur going so far as to state, "We believe Eli has got years left as a starting quarterback in this league, and we're excited that he's here". Also, you must remember, the former GM and head coach were both fired literally the week after Eli was benched for a single game. Ownership was furious about that. So right or wrong, Eli is clearly their guy.
What is the new coach supposed to say?  I fully expect Eli to start at QB for the year, while the QB they draft at 2 learns behind him.  I mean that is exactly what the Giants did with Eli.  They brought Kurt Warner in to start until they felt Eli was ready. 

If you can't or aren't willing to recognize the difference between the Giants bringing in an at the time thought to be washed up Kurt Warner to act as a stop gap until Eli was ready (Eli was widely recognized as a true franchise QB, something none of this year's QB's are though to be), and the Giants sticking with said franchise QB of the last decade plus, and building around him, then there's no point in discussing this with you further. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point and are ignoring all the obvious signs.

Literally every action the Giants have taken up until now point to them viewing Eli as someone they can still build around. But even more important than any of that is the simple fact none of the QB's in this draft are good enough to warrant throwing away the opportunity to build around the franchise QB they already have.

We'll see what happens next month.
um, the Jets gave up the farm to move up to 3.  The Bills have contacted both the Browns and Giants about 1 and 2.  I'm not sure why you don't think these QB's are thought of highly because teams in the league absolutely do, that is why they are all trying to move up.  Eli is on a pretty steady 3 year decline.  he is 37.  The Giants are saying what they are because he is their guy right now and has been their guy for 12 years, but the writing is all over the wall that he isn't long for the NFL and the Giants absolutely know this. 
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: kozlodoev on March 20, 2018, 02:49:48 PM
7-time Patriot Pro-Bowler Matthew Slater in Pittsburgh for a visit, sources say.

Holy molyyyy
Well, they got Patterson who plays gunner, so Slater might be gone.
yeah, the Patterson move was not a good sign for Slater, but we also did lose Bademosi who was a great ST guy and Jonathan Jones presumably will play a larger role on defense next year so we probably want to keep him off ST as much as possible. Furthermore, we lost Lewis and Amendola and probably won't bring Reedy back, so we are pretty devoid of guys who can return kicks.

It's possible Patterson was brought in as a response to losing Bademosi/Jones as gunners and Lewis/Reedy as returners rather than in anticipation of losing Slater, but I wouldnt expect Slater back at this point. We already are paying Ebner and Patterson fairly big money to be special teamers.
Didn't realize that. It's shocking that he now makes pretty much the same money as Patterson.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 20, 2018, 03:08:34 PM
7-time Patriot Pro-Bowler Matthew Slater in Pittsburgh for a visit, sources say.

Holy molyyyy
Well, they got Patterson who plays gunner, so Slater might be gone.
yeah, the Patterson move was not a good sign for Slater, but we also did lose Bademosi who was a great ST guy and Jonathan Jones presumably will play a larger role on defense next year so we probably want to keep him off ST as much as possible. Furthermore, we lost Lewis and Amendola and probably won't bring Reedy back, so we are pretty devoid of guys who can return kicks.

It's possible Patterson was brought in as a response to losing Bademosi/Jones as gunners and Lewis/Reedy as returners rather than in anticipation of losing Slater, but I wouldnt expect Slater back at this point. We already are paying Ebner and Patterson fairly big money to be special teamers.
Didn't realize that. It's shocking that he now makes pretty much the same money as Patterson.
yeah, he's overpaid a little bit, but he provides solid corner depth and is a great special teamer.

I think his corner play is a bit underrated because people overreacted to his mediocre SB performance. He's pretty decent on that end.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Donoghus on March 20, 2018, 03:23:26 PM
um, the Jets gave up the farm to move up to 3.  The Bills have contacted both the Browns and Giants about 1 and 2.  I'm not sure why you don't think these QB's are thought of highly because teams in the league absolutely do, that is why they are all trying to move up.  Eli is on a pretty steady 3 year decline.  he is 37.  The Giants are saying what they are because he is their guy right now and has been their guy for 12 years, but the writing is all over the wall that he isn't long for the NFL and the Giants absolutely know this.

Sure but it doesn't necessarily mean they HAVE to go QB in the first round or with the 2nd pick

Just because the Browns & Jets (2 notoriously horrible evaluators of QB talent in recent memory) seem to be high on this QB crop, doesn't mean the Giants & others feel the same way.    If you're going to drafting a QB in the top 5 of the draft, you have to be [dang] sure of the kid (or talked yourself into the kid, which can get you in trouble) because they're going to be the franchise whether its this fall or 3 falls from now.   You swing & miss on a QB here and it can set you back years because of the commitment.

Eli is certainly getting long in the tooth but that doesn't mean that the Giants have to go QB here if they're not enamored with this crop.  They can say the hell with it, stand pat at #2, and draft who they feel is the best non-QB available and perhaps go QB later on in the draft or just say the hell with it for the QB crop for this year.

Or, they can look for another team that seems to be star-eyed about this year's QB crop (looking at you, Buffalo) and trade for a king's ransom of a package (which should use the Jets deal as a starting point).  Then do what they need to do with picks which includes the possibility of going with a QB a tier or two down from where Darnold/Rosen/Allen seem to be with organizations. 

There's also the whole idea that you can address the QB situation via other avenues like trade or FA.   
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: smokeablount on March 20, 2018, 03:26:09 PM
Browns fans are ecstatic with the Jets trade as they now believe they will get their QB at 1 (Darnold is the front runner) and the best non-QB at 4 (Barkley and Chubb are fairly evenly split).  The Giants could still ruin that, but most people seem to think the Giants will either take a QB at 2 or trade the pick to a team that will take a QB.  However even if they take Barkley, that still leaves Chubb for the Browns since the Jets are clearly taking a QB. 

It seems very unlikely the Giants will draft a QB with that pick. They just paid out a $5m roster bonus to Eli yesterday and the ownership has seemingly been steadfast in their intentions of keeping him around for at least a few more years. They still believe they can win with him.

I'm really hoping they draft either Nelson or Chubb. I'd be fine with Barkley, too, but drafting an offensive or defensive lineman at the top of the draft would just make so much more sense. Both are positions of great need, and are more important positions than RB anyways.

Trading the pick is another possibility, but I'm hoping that if they do, it's only because someone was willing to offer an overpay like the Jets just did.
You just never know when you will be high again and it is hard to pass up on a potential franchise altering QB.  I mean the last time the Giants had a top 5 pick, was the Eli draft.  They may pass on a QB, but it seems like the type of move the Browns would make and you never want to be in that company, especially in a draft that is supposed to be pretty deep at the position at the top.
If the NFL draft has proven anything its that drafting a QB at the top of the draft doesn't mean you are drafting a franchise altering QB and its proven you can draft franchise altering QBs in just about any round.

I can see where a team could value a high quality DE or OL over a QB when they already have a QB, this high in the draft.

The NFL has to be hoping that each NY team takes a QB though. As they develop the comparisons to each other, both being young QBs in NY at the same time, will drive storylines in the NFL for a decade, if they are good.
I'd have no issue with the Giants not taking a QB if Eli was younger or wasn't showing significant signs of aging, but he is trending downward and you usually don't stop a multiple year trend at his age.  I can totally see them giving a last hurrah (while still drafting his replacement at 2), but that seems like what this is, and frankly even at his best Eli was never a guy consistently good enough that you could always count on him like you could with his brother, Brady, and Brees.  I mean his record as a starter is 111-103.  If not for the 2 Super Bowl wins, he would never have a shot at the HOF (and even with the 2 Super Bowls might not even make it).  Eli was a good QB with impeccable health and a long career, but he isn't worth the Giants heavily investing in him at age 37. 

Well, it seems pretty clear their ownership doesn't share your view of Eli. Paying him the $5m roster bonus pretty much confirms that.

I'd also argue his "decline" has had a lot more to do with his offensive line being complete garbage the last few seasons. Hopefully they've done enough to rectify that.

Also, I don't really view any of the QB's in this draft as can't miss prospects. None of them are on the level Eli was considered as being on coming out of Ole Miss.

Getting an elite DE or OL just seems like the more prudent choice.
them picking up the roster bonus doesn't say that at all, it just says Eli will be on the team this season.  I mean the Browns traded draft picks in this draft to pick up a mid tier starting QB and yet they almost certainly will draft a QB at 1.  Basically all of the major sports sites list QB as a draft need for the Giants.  The draft is loaded with top tier prospects.  If the Giants stay there the odds that they pick a QB at 2 is way over 50%.  They might not of course, but all signs point that way.

You don't pay out that kind of roster bonus to a player who isn't part of your future, and you don't draft a QB with the #2 pick if you are going to have them sit behind someone else for a couple years. All signs coming out of NY seem to point to them selecting someone else besides a QB. Anyone who is paying attention can see this.

The only way I see the Giants taking a QB is if the Browns screw up and don't draft Darnold, as he really the only one that even remotely resembles a "can't miss franchise QB".   Even then, I think the Giants would be more likely to trade the pick for a haul that exceeds what the Jets received.

The Browns are in a great position, having picks 1 and 4. But expecting them to get the best QB and best non-QB, seems like wishful thinking.   The Giants would be making a huge mistake to take the 2nd best QB when they have other bigger needs. And I don't expect them to make such mistake, they usually make smarter decisions than that.

A roster bonus doesn't count toward the cap and $5m is peanuts to an NFL owner.  In New York, $5m is well worth preventing the fan base from revolting after choosing to get worse than 1-15 or whatever they finished last year.  And maybe in recent years a QB getting drafted #2 means he'll start right away, but certainly QBs get drafted high and sit for a year or two.

Eli's roster bonus absolutely counts against the Giants salary cap. It's right here: http://spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/eli-manning-4348/

The bottom line is, the Giants have made it known they believe Eli still has multiple years left as a guy that can lead the team, with new head coach Mike Shurmur going so far as to state, "We believe Eli has got years left as a starting quarterback in this league, and we're excited that he's here". Also, you must remember, the former GM and head coach were both fired literally the week after Eli was benched for a single game. Ownership was furious about that. So right or wrong, Eli is clearly their guy.

These are good points, and I think more convincing than the $5m roster bonus.

The roster bonus definitely doesnít scream that heís their guy to me, at least not beyond this year. They might want a bridge to their starter next year, or want to ďdo rightĒ by their franchise guy of the past decade. You could be right, I just donít think the roster bonus is the most compelling evidence.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: kozlodoev on March 20, 2018, 04:20:31 PM
yeah, he's overpaid a little bit, but he provides solid corner depth and is a great special teamer.

I think his corner play is a bit underrated because people overreacted to his mediocre SB performance. He's pretty decent on that end.
He is worse than Rowe and Rowe is pretty bad.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Moranis on March 20, 2018, 04:52:11 PM
um, the Jets gave up the farm to move up to 3.  The Bills have contacted both the Browns and Giants about 1 and 2.  I'm not sure why you don't think these QB's are thought of highly because teams in the league absolutely do, that is why they are all trying to move up.  Eli is on a pretty steady 3 year decline.  he is 37.  The Giants are saying what they are because he is their guy right now and has been their guy for 12 years, but the writing is all over the wall that he isn't long for the NFL and the Giants absolutely know this.

Sure but it doesn't necessarily mean they HAVE to go QB in the first round or with the 2nd pick

Just because the Browns & Jets (2 notoriously horrible evaluators of QB talent in recent memory) seem to be high on this QB crop, doesn't mean the Giants & others feel the same way.    If you're going to drafting a QB in the top 5 of the draft, you have to be [dang] sure of the kid (or talked yourself into the kid, which can get you in trouble) because they're going to be the franchise whether its this fall or 3 falls from now.   You swing & miss on a QB here and it can set you back years because of the commitment.

Eli is certainly getting long in the tooth but that doesn't mean that the Giants have to go QB here if they're not enamored with this crop.  They can say the hell with it, stand pat at #2, and draft who they feel is the best non-QB available and perhaps go QB later on in the draft or just say the hell with it for the QB crop for this year.

Or, they can look for another team that seems to be star-eyed about this year's QB crop (looking at you, Buffalo) and trade for a king's ransom of a package (which should use the Jets deal as a starting point).  Then do what they need to do with picks which includes the possibility of going with a QB a tier or two down from where Darnold/Rosen/Allen seem to be with organizations. 

There's also the whole idea that you can address the QB situation via other avenues like trade or FA.   
Oh I don't think they have to, I just think they will, if they stay here.

CBS put out a mock this morning that had the Giants trading with the Bills (2 for 12, 22, 56, 2019 1st) and then had the Giants moving back into the top ten by trading with the Niners for #9 (12, 56, 74) where the Giants then took Mayfield.  Seems strange to project trades like that, but I can totally see the Giants doing both of those trades if the picks work out like that. 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/two-round-2018-nfl-mock-draft-giants-trade-down-then-up-as-qbs-go-1-2-3/
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 20, 2018, 06:07:28 PM
yeah, he's overpaid a little bit, but he provides solid corner depth and is a great special teamer.

I think his corner play is a bit underrated because people overreacted to his mediocre SB performance. He's pretty decent on that end.
He is worse than Rowe and Rowe is pretty bad.
He's decent as a depth piece. I'd say Eric Rowe is good as a depth piece.

Ask Rowe to be your #2 guy or ask Bademosi to be your #1 slot guy and you are gonna think they suck, but as a depth piece they are both fine.

They were both asked to perform roles above their abilities in the SB and as anyone could have guessed they didnt succeed.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 20, 2018, 06:09:00 PM
Matt Slater is back on a 2 year deal!!!

Patriots special teams is going to be unbelievable next year!

I think the team would have been fine without him, but I'm glad he's back as he's such a likable guy and a great leader.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on March 20, 2018, 06:59:37 PM
Matt Slater is back on a 2 year deal!!!

Patriots special teams is going to be unbelievable next year!

I think the team would have been fine without him, but I'm glad he's back as he's such a likable guy and a great leader.

Great news!! Having Ebner back will be good too.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Moranis on March 22, 2018, 11:19:13 AM
Giants trade Jason Pierre-Paul to Bucs. They swap  4th round picks and Giants also get a 3rd rounder
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: kozlodoev on March 22, 2018, 12:11:13 PM
yeah, he's overpaid a little bit, but he provides solid corner depth and is a great special teamer.

I think his corner play is a bit underrated because people overreacted to his mediocre SB performance. He's pretty decent on that end.
He is worse than Rowe and Rowe is pretty bad.
He's decent as a depth piece. I'd say Eric Rowe is good as a depth piece.

Ask Rowe to be your #2 guy or ask Bademosi to be your #1 slot guy and you are gonna think they suck, but as a depth piece they are both fine.

They were both asked to perform roles above their abilities in the SB and as anyone could have guessed they didnt succeed.
This is all accurate. I guess every player could be considered decent if you bump him down enough on the depth chart. The problem is Bademosi got paid way more than a STer that is not a specialist (kicker, punter, gunner, PR/KR) should.
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on March 22, 2018, 12:51:09 PM
A bit of good news: The Patriots are bringing back special teamer/dime linebacker Marquis Flowers on a one-year deal (http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4811918/new-england-patriots-2018-free-agency-running-back-rex-burkhead-gets-extension).
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on March 22, 2018, 05:41:44 PM
And another bit of good news: The Patriots re-signed OT LaAdrian Waddle (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22874090/new-england-patriots-agree-deal-ot-laadrian-waddle).
Title: Re: Cousins to Vikes, Brees re-signs, and other NFL free agency news
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 22, 2018, 07:19:27 PM
yeah, he's overpaid a little bit, but he provides solid corner depth and is a great special teamer.

I think his corner play is a bit underrated because people overreacted to his mediocre SB performance. He's pretty decent on that end.
He is worse than Rowe and Rowe is pretty bad.
He's decent as a depth piece. I'd say Eric Rowe is good as a depth piece.

Ask Rowe to be your #2 guy or ask Bademosi to be your #1 slot guy and you are gonna think they suck, but as a depth piece they are both fine.

They were both asked to perform roles above their abilities in the SB and as anyone could have guessed they didnt succeed.
This is all accurate. I guess every player could be considered decent if you bump him down enough on the depth chart. The problem is Bademosi got paid way more than a STer that is not a specialist (kicker, punter, gunner, PR/KR) should.
Bademosi is an elite gunner.