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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Moranis on February 16, 2018, 08:49:29 AM

Title: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: Moranis on February 16, 2018, 08:49:29 AM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22420673/cavaliers-face-300-million-dollar-future-espn

So in the piece, ESPN outlines what will happen if Cleveland re-signs Hood at 12 million and Lebron comes back this summer (they used his option salary amount of 35.6).  Along with the BKN pick (they used the 7th pick for salary) and free agent minimums to fill out the roster, the Cavs payroll would be 158.9 million (and that might be under selling the real cost).  However, since Cleveland will be paying the repeater tax for the first time, it will pay 149.2 million in luxury tax on that salary for a total payroll of 308.1 million. 

The Cavs were the only team that lost money last year, they will almost certainly lose money this year (190 million salary when accounting for the tax), and will basically write a luxury tax bill that will all be a loss next year in that scenario.  That isn't to say Gilbert won't do it or won't be able to find way to reduce some salary, but that is an insane proposition for any team.  It is also what Golden State faces in 2020, and why that team likely won't stay together forever.

This is why, the Celtics will do everything in their power to avoid paying the luxury tax this summer.  The longer you can avoid it, the longer it takes to get to the repeater tax zone, and the longer you can keep your core team together. 
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: Androslav on February 16, 2018, 09:15:42 AM
Windhorse/Lebron want to discretely instill in Cleveland's fanbase that Gilbert is cheap and "can't/won't pay that bill. Therefore making 2nd LBJ Cleveland escape more plausible for him.

Never trust anything he says, especially in these cases, where everything is made out of pure hypotheticals.
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: timpiker on February 16, 2018, 09:48:20 AM
An owner not willing to pay over $300M is considered cheap?  This is crazy.
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: CFAN38 on February 16, 2018, 09:49:45 AM
100% agree DA is going to work hard to avoid the tax this summer. That was what I was piecing together in the below post

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=95362.0
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: apc on February 16, 2018, 09:49:47 AM
I wonder what Gilbert tax returns look like  ;D
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: gift on February 16, 2018, 09:57:00 AM
I can't imagine paying that much tax for a team not favored to win the championship.
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: jambr380 on February 16, 2018, 10:54:12 AM
I have been screaming this sentiment from the rooftops since the trade. In Clarkson and Hill, the Cavs are already adding a ton of salary over the next two years. People were so high on Hood, but there is no conceivable way they can keep him beyond this year.

If the Cavs win the championship this year, then kudos to them and I will admit I was wrong, but this trade actually has a pretty good chance of blowing up in their faces - at least as far as future salary obligations goes.
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: ChillyWilly on February 16, 2018, 11:02:36 AM
I have been screaming this sentiment from the rooftops since the trade. In Clarkson and Hill, the Cavs are already adding a ton of salty over the next two years. People were so high on Hood, but there is no conceivable way they can keep him beyond this year.

If the Cavs won the championship this year, then kudos to them and I will admit I was wrong, but this trade actually has a pretty good chance of blowing up in their faces.

Saltover is such a cap expert we even calling salary salty?  :laugh:
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: jambr380 on February 16, 2018, 11:09:11 AM
I have been screaming this sentiment from the rooftops since the trade. In Clarkson and Hill, the Cavs are already adding a ton of salty over the next two years. People were so high on Hood, but there is no conceivable way they can keep him beyond this year.

If the Cavs won the championship this year, then kudos to them and I will admit I was wrong, but this trade actually has a pretty good chance of blowing up in their faces.

Saltover is such a cap expert we even calling salary salty?  :laugh:

Ughhh - you caught me in the middle of my edit  :) I hate auto-correct, although I thought the same thing when I saw it!
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: Monkhouse on February 16, 2018, 11:13:21 AM
I have been screaming this sentiment from the rooftops since the trade. In Clarkson and Hill, the Cavs are already adding a ton of salty over the next two years. People were so high on Hood, but there is no conceivable way they can keep him beyond this year.

If the Cavs won the championship this year, then kudos to them and I will admit I was wrong, but this trade actually has a pretty good chance of blowing up in their faces.

Saltover is such a cap expert we even calling salary salty?  :laugh:

Dude I hate you!

LOL you made me spit out my coffee.

TP for the morning laugh.
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: triboy16f on February 16, 2018, 11:22:15 AM
They make it to the finals every year....It doesn't matter

The true joy would be to see the Cavs eliminated in the first round and right after... camera close up of Lebron and Dan Gilberts face
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: More Banners on February 16, 2018, 11:29:50 AM
They make it to the finals every year....It doesn't matter

The true joy would be to see the Cavs eliminated in the first round and right after... camera close up of Lebron and Dan Gilberts face

I hope they get Phillly.

Anyway, I think this is why we may lose Smart this summer. His number seems to be going down though.
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: PhoSita on February 16, 2018, 11:36:47 AM
Windhorse/Lebron want to discretely instill in Cleveland's fanbase that Gilbert is cheap and "can't/won't pay that bill. Therefore making 2nd LBJ Cleveland escape more plausible for him.

Never trust anything he says, especially in these cases, where everything is made out of pure hypotheticals.

 8)

This guy gets it.
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: PhoSita on February 16, 2018, 11:41:08 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if they find a way to unload Tristan Thompson and Kyle Korver somehow.

They may also explore trading Kevin Love for several cheaper younger pieces.

As valuable as TT and JR were for them in the 2016 Finals, this shows you why it's important not to drastically overpay for replaceable talent.
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: hpantazo on February 16, 2018, 12:08:27 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if they find a way to unload Tristan Thompson and Kyle Korver somehow.

They may also explore trading Kevin Love for several cheaper younger pieces.

As valuable as TT and JR were for them in the 2016 Finals, this shows you why it's important not to drastically overpay for replaceable talent.

Itís going to be hard for them to unload Thompson. Their best bet is moving Love for cheaper players and a pick or two.
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: triboy16f on February 16, 2018, 12:22:03 PM
They make it to the finals every year....It doesn't matter

The true joy would be to see the Cavs eliminated in the first round and right after... camera close up of Lebron and Dan Gilberts face

I hope they get Phillly.

Anyway, I think this is why we may lose Smart this summer. His number seems to be going down though.

reading Pacers will be in hot pursuit of Smart and Gordon in the offseason
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: Monkhouse on February 16, 2018, 12:27:50 PM
They make it to the finals every year....It doesn't matter

The true joy would be to see the Cavs eliminated in the first round and right after... camera close up of Lebron and Dan Gilberts face

I hope they get Phillly.

Anyway, I think this is why we may lose Smart this summer. His number seems to be going down though.

reading Pacers will be in hot pursuit of Smart and Gordon in the offseason

Pacers, Mavericks, and Suns are my biggest worries in terms of re-signing Smart. Gordon isn't going anywhere, plus the Magic would be foolish to let another young and upcoming potential Allstar go away.
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: triboy16f on February 16, 2018, 12:36:20 PM
They make it to the finals every year....It doesn't matter

The true joy would be to see the Cavs eliminated in the first round and right after... camera close up of Lebron and Dan Gilberts face

I hope they get Phillly.

Anyway, I think this is why we may lose Smart this summer. His number seems to be going down though.

reading Pacers will be in hot pursuit of Smart and Gordon in the offseason

Pacers, Mavericks, and Suns are my biggest worries in terms of re-signing Smart. Gordon isn't going anywhere, plus the Magic would be foolish to let another young and upcoming potential Allstar go away.

So how much do you think magic will pony up for gordon?
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: Moranis on February 16, 2018, 12:52:02 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if they find a way to unload Tristan Thompson and Kyle Korver somehow.

They may also explore trading Kevin Love for several cheaper younger pieces.

As valuable as TT and JR were for them in the 2016 Finals, this shows you why it's important not to drastically overpay for replaceable talent.

Itís going to be hard for them to unload Thompson. Their best bet is moving Love for cheaper players and a pick or two.
I don't know, Thompson will only have 2 years left this summer and while he is definitely overpaid at 17.4 and 18.5, he at least serves a useful enough role that they might be able to find a taker for an Asik type player (not necessarily Asik, but something like that where the Cavs get a worse player but on a cheaper contract).

And the Cavs really only have this problem for the 18-19 season. As they can get out from Korver, Hill, and Smith before the 19-20 season (they still might be in the tax, but not so far into it that it is a huge problem).
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: Monkhouse on February 16, 2018, 01:13:32 PM
They make it to the finals every year....It doesn't matter

The true joy would be to see the Cavs eliminated in the first round and right after... camera close up of Lebron and Dan Gilberts face

I hope they get Phillly.

Anyway, I think this is why we may lose Smart this summer. His number seems to be going down though.

reading Pacers will be in hot pursuit of Smart and Gordon in the offseason

Pacers, Mavericks, and Suns are my biggest worries in terms of re-signing Smart. Gordon isn't going anywhere, plus the Magic would be foolish to let another young and upcoming potential Allstar go away.

So how much do you think magic will pony up for gordon?

18.4 PPG 8.3 RPG 2.4 APG with 34.6% 3P 4's don't grow on trees...

He's getting the rookie scale max no doubt. If not, someone else will.
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: Monkhouse on February 16, 2018, 01:20:47 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if they find a way to unload Tristan Thompson and Kyle Korver somehow.

They may also explore trading Kevin Love for several cheaper younger pieces.

As valuable as TT and JR were for them in the 2016 Finals, this shows you why it's important not to drastically overpay for replaceable talent.

Itís going to be hard for them to unload Thompson. Their best bet is moving Love for cheaper players and a pick or two.
I don't know, Thompson will only have 2 years left this summer and while he is definitely overpaid at 17.4 and 18.5, he at least serves a useful enough role that they might be able to find a taker for an Asik type player (not necessarily Asik, but something like that where the Cavs get a worse player but on a cheaper contract).

And the Cavs really only have this problem for the 18-19 season. As they can get out from Korver, Hill, and Smith before the 19-20 season (they still might be in the tax, but not so far into it that it is a huge problem).

I think I just heard someone say Tristan Thompson serves an useful role. Other than rebounding, this guy just sucks in literally every facet of the game. Can't shoot, can't pass, can't even defend as well anymore, and literally doesn't know how to move on offense besides pick and rolling, (which even any competent big man can do at the start of high school,) no one is going to offer to take his contract on lest they get offered at least a second rounder or 1st pick with protections.

Maybe I'm being too hard on Tristan, who was very vital for the championship ring, but the moment Lebron advocated for his contract, I knew it was a mistake.
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: Moranis on February 16, 2018, 01:33:04 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if they find a way to unload Tristan Thompson and Kyle Korver somehow.

They may also explore trading Kevin Love for several cheaper younger pieces.

As valuable as TT and JR were for them in the 2016 Finals, this shows you why it's important not to drastically overpay for replaceable talent.

Itís going to be hard for them to unload Thompson. Their best bet is moving Love for cheaper players and a pick or two.
I don't know, Thompson will only have 2 years left this summer and while he is definitely overpaid at 17.4 and 18.5, he at least serves a useful enough role that they might be able to find a taker for an Asik type player (not necessarily Asik, but something like that where the Cavs get a worse player but on a cheaper contract).

And the Cavs really only have this problem for the 18-19 season. As they can get out from Korver, Hill, and Smith before the 19-20 season (they still might be in the tax, but not so far into it that it is a huge problem).

I think I just heard someone say Tristan Thompson serves an useful role. Other than rebounding, this guy just sucks in literally every facet of the game. Can't shoot, can't pass, can't even defend as well anymore, and literally doesn't know how to move on offense besides pick and rolling, (which even any competent big man can do at the start of high school,) no one is going to offer to take his contract on lest they get offered at least a second rounder or 1st pick with protections.
Since Thompson went back to the starting lineup (10 games), he is playing 26 mpg and averaging 8 and 7, while "shooting" 62% from the field.  He has even been a near 60% foul shooter on the season (so not the total liability he was last year).  Obviously, that isn't worth 18 million a year, but if you are the Bulls would you rather pay Thompson 18 million a year for the next two years or Asik 11.5 million a year for the next two years.  At least you can put Thompson on the floor.   Asik is completely worthless. 
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: Monkhouse on February 16, 2018, 01:34:27 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if they find a way to unload Tristan Thompson and Kyle Korver somehow.

They may also explore trading Kevin Love for several cheaper younger pieces.

As valuable as TT and JR were for them in the 2016 Finals, this shows you why it's important not to drastically overpay for replaceable talent.

Itís going to be hard for them to unload Thompson. Their best bet is moving Love for cheaper players and a pick or two.
I don't know, Thompson will only have 2 years left this summer and while he is definitely overpaid at 17.4 and 18.5, he at least serves a useful enough role that they might be able to find a taker for an Asik type player (not necessarily Asik, but something like that where the Cavs get a worse player but on a cheaper contract).

And the Cavs really only have this problem for the 18-19 season. As they can get out from Korver, Hill, and Smith before the 19-20 season (they still might be in the tax, but not so far into it that it is a huge problem).

I think I just heard someone say Tristan Thompson serves an useful role. Other than rebounding, this guy just sucks in literally every facet of the game. Can't shoot, can't pass, can't even defend as well anymore, and literally doesn't know how to move on offense besides pick and rolling, (which even any competent big man can do at the start of high school,) no one is going to offer to take his contract on lest they get offered at least a second rounder or 1st pick with protections.
Since Thompson went back to the starting lineup (10 games), he is playing 26 mpg and averaging 8 and 7, while "shooting" 62% from the field.  He has even been a near 60% foul shooter on the season (so not the total liability he was last year).  Obviously, that isn't worth 18 million a year, but if you are the Bulls would you rather pay Thompson 18 million a year for the next two years or Asik 11.5 million a year for the next two years.  At least you can put Thompson on the floor.   Asik is completely worthless.

That is true. I agree that I was a little harsh on Tristan, but I wish someone like him would learn how to successfully set better screens. Maybe him and Asik can teach each other their secrets so they can successfully learn how to play to garner minutes lol.
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: PhoSita on February 16, 2018, 01:50:52 PM
They make it to the finals every year....It doesn't matter

The true joy would be to see the Cavs eliminated in the first round and right after... camera close up of Lebron and Dan Gilberts face

I hope they get Phillly.

Anyway, I think this is why we may lose Smart this summer. His number seems to be going down though.

reading Pacers will be in hot pursuit of Smart and Gordon in the offseason

Pacers, Mavericks, and Suns are my biggest worries in terms of re-signing Smart. Gordon isn't going anywhere, plus the Magic would be foolish to let another young and upcoming potential Allstar go away.

So how much do you think magic will pony up for gordon?

18.4 PPG 8.3 RPG 2.4 APG with 34.6% 3P 4's don't grow on trees...

He's getting the rookie scale max no doubt. If not, someone else will.

How much does Gordon actually help on defense?  He was supposed to be a hyperathletic super-switchable defender and versatile offensive player but I'm not sure how much that's really developed on the Magic.

I think his stats are hard to really evaluate given how bad the Magic are.  I wouldn't pay him a lot of $$.
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: droopdog7 on February 16, 2018, 01:55:01 PM
I mean, this whole luxury tax thing is just ridiculous.  There is already a cap, you build a championship team fair and square and you're punished to this degree?  Outrageous.

Of course, the Celts will definitely face this issue in the near future and is one of the reasons they will likely have to consolidate their assets in some way.  2-3 great players is better than 4-5 great plus really good players because they'll all get the max regardless.
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: Monkhouse on February 16, 2018, 02:00:57 PM
They make it to the finals every year....It doesn't matter

The true joy would be to see the Cavs eliminated in the first round and right after... camera close up of Lebron and Dan Gilberts face

I hope they get Phillly.

Anyway, I think this is why we may lose Smart this summer. His number seems to be going down though.

reading Pacers will be in hot pursuit of Smart and Gordon in the offseason

Pacers, Mavericks, and Suns are my biggest worries in terms of re-signing Smart. Gordon isn't going anywhere, plus the Magic would be foolish to let another young and upcoming potential Allstar go away.

So how much do you think magic will pony up for gordon?

18.4 PPG 8.3 RPG 2.4 APG with 34.6% 3P 4's don't grow on trees...

He's getting the rookie scale max no doubt. If not, someone else will.

How much does Gordon actually help on defense?  He was supposed to be a hyperathletic super-switchable defender and versatile offensive player but I'm not sure how much that's really developed on the Magic.

I think his stats are hard to really evaluate given how bad the Magic are.  I wouldn't pay him a lot of $$.

I remember in December, his defensive +/- was -1.35 which was below league average, but it seems like that is more related to the team just doing awfully bad. He's not the best athlete at switching, he also tries to soft hedges defenders on screens, but is a tad bit slow. But the Magic should learn from their Oladipo mistake... Letting him go for Ibaka was just stupid, then they gave 4/70 to Biyombo. Yikes.

At least keep Gordon in hopes that he can potentially surpass his contract and build trade value.
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: Chris22 on February 16, 2018, 06:58:06 PM
I wonder what Gilbert tax returns look like  ;D

0
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: tazzmaniac on February 16, 2018, 07:50:59 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if they find a way to unload Tristan Thompson and Kyle Korver somehow.

They may also explore trading Kevin Love for several cheaper younger pieces.

As valuable as TT and JR were for them in the 2016 Finals, this shows you why it's important not to drastically overpay for replaceable talent.

Itís going to be hard for them to unload Thompson. Their best bet is moving Love for cheaper players and a pick or two.
I don't know, Thompson will only have 2 years left this summer and while he is definitely overpaid at 17.4 and 18.5, he at least serves a useful enough role that they might be able to find a taker for an Asik type player (not necessarily Asik, but something like that where the Cavs get a worse player but on a cheaper contract).

And the Cavs really only have this problem for the 18-19 season. As they can get out from Korver, Hill, and Smith before the 19-20 season (they still might be in the tax, but not so far into it that it is a huge problem).

I think I just heard someone say Tristan Thompson serves an useful role. Other than rebounding, this guy just sucks in literally every facet of the game. Can't shoot, can't pass, can't even defend as well anymore, and literally doesn't know how to move on offense besides pick and rolling, (which even any competent big man can do at the start of high school,) no one is going to offer to take his contract on lest they get offered at least a second rounder or 1st pick with protections.
Since Thompson went back to the starting lineup (10 games), he is playing 26 mpg and averaging 8 and 7, while "shooting" 62% from the field.  He has even been a near 60% foul shooter on the season (so not the total liability he was last year).  Obviously, that isn't worth 18 million a year, but if you are the Bulls would you rather pay Thompson 18 million a year for the next two years or Asik 11.5 million a year for the next two years.  At least you can put Thompson on the floor.   Asik is completely worthless.
Only 3M of the last year of Asik's contract is guaranteed.   No reason for the Bulls to take on Thompson's contract without draft pick compensation. 
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: Moranis on February 16, 2018, 08:55:48 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if they find a way to unload Tristan Thompson and Kyle Korver somehow.

They may also explore trading Kevin Love for several cheaper younger pieces.

As valuable as TT and JR were for them in the 2016 Finals, this shows you why it's important not to drastically overpay for replaceable talent.

Itís going to be hard for them to unload Thompson. Their best bet is moving Love for cheaper players and a pick or two.
I don't know, Thompson will only have 2 years left this summer and while he is definitely overpaid at 17.4 and 18.5, he at least serves a useful enough role that they might be able to find a taker for an Asik type player (not necessarily Asik, but something like that where the Cavs get a worse player but on a cheaper contract).

And the Cavs really only have this problem for the 18-19 season. As they can get out from Korver, Hill, and Smith before the 19-20 season (they still might be in the tax, but not so far into it that it is a huge problem).

I think I just heard someone say Tristan Thompson serves an useful role. Other than rebounding, this guy just sucks in literally every facet of the game. Can't shoot, can't pass, can't even defend as well anymore, and literally doesn't know how to move on offense besides pick and rolling, (which even any competent big man can do at the start of high school,) no one is going to offer to take his contract on lest they get offered at least a second rounder or 1st pick with protections.
Since Thompson went back to the starting lineup (10 games), he is playing 26 mpg and averaging 8 and 7, while "shooting" 62% from the field.  He has even been a near 60% foul shooter on the season (so not the total liability he was last year).  Obviously, that isn't worth 18 million a year, but if you are the Bulls would you rather pay Thompson 18 million a year for the next two years or Asik 11.5 million a year for the next two years.  At least you can put Thompson on the floor.   Asik is completely worthless.
Only 3M of the last year of Asik's contract is guaranteed.   No reason for the Bulls to take on Thompson's contract without draft pick compensation.
I just used him as an example of the type of contract that could be out there.  I mea  there are a lot of bad contracts in the nba
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: csfansince60s on February 16, 2018, 09:41:32 PM
They make it to the finals every year....It doesn't matter

The true joy would be to see the Cavs eliminated in the first round and right after... camera close up of Lebron and Dan Gilberts face

Yeah, then watching Bron Bron rip off his Cavs jersey in disgust as he walks down the tunnel towards the dressing room....just like when he went to the cHeat after we beat him and sent I'm home.
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: droopdog7 on February 16, 2018, 10:32:21 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if they find a way to unload Tristan Thompson and Kyle Korver somehow.

They may also explore trading Kevin Love for several cheaper younger pieces.

As valuable as TT and JR were for them in the 2016 Finals, this shows you why it's important not to drastically overpay for replaceable talent.

Itís going to be hard for them to unload Thompson. Their best bet is moving Love for cheaper players and a pick or two.
I don't know, Thompson will only have 2 years left this summer and while he is definitely overpaid at 17.4 and 18.5, he at least serves a useful enough role that they might be able to find a taker for an Asik type player (not necessarily Asik, but something like that where the Cavs get a worse player but on a cheaper contract).

And the Cavs really only have this problem for the 18-19 season. As they can get out from Korver, Hill, and Smith before the 19-20 season (they still might be in the tax, but not so far into it that it is a huge problem).

I think I just heard someone say Tristan Thompson serves an useful role. Other than rebounding, this guy just sucks in literally every facet of the game. Can't shoot, can't pass, can't even defend as well anymore, and literally doesn't know how to move on offense besides pick and rolling, (which even any competent big man can do at the start of high school,) no one is going to offer to take his contract on lest they get offered at least a second rounder or 1st pick with protections.
Since Thompson went back to the starting lineup (10 games), he is playing 26 mpg and averaging 8 and 7, while "shooting" 62% from the field.  He has even been a near 60% foul shooter on the season (so not the total liability he was last year).  Obviously, that isn't worth 18 million a year, but if you are the Bulls would you rather pay Thompson 18 million a year for the next two years or Asik 11.5 million a year for the next two years.  At least you can put Thompson on the floor.   Asik is completely worthless.
The bulls arenít going anywhere in the next two years.  Iíd rather pay Asik to do nothing by a mile.
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: Phantom255x on February 17, 2018, 12:32:35 PM
How much is Golden State going to pay next season?? And 2 years from now??

Surely they would also be paying a massive luxury tax in the coming years. I doubt Klay and Draymond take massive pay cuts to stay, and even with KD taking some pay cuts to keep some bench guys (Iguodala, etc.), they are still paying a pretty big luxury tax I believe.
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: Roy H. on February 17, 2018, 12:55:19 PM
How much is Golden State going to pay next season?? And 2 years from now??

Surely they would also be paying a massive luxury tax in the coming years. I doubt Klay and Draymond take massive pay cuts to stay, and even with KD taking some pay cuts to keep some bench guys (Iguodala, etc.), they are still paying a pretty big luxury tax I believe.

Theyíre going to get squeezed, but they made $90 million profit last year, so theyíve got a lot of wiggle room.
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: Moranis on February 17, 2018, 04:51:59 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if they find a way to unload Tristan Thompson and Kyle Korver somehow.

They may also explore trading Kevin Love for several cheaper younger pieces.

As valuable as TT and JR were for them in the 2016 Finals, this shows you why it's important not to drastically overpay for replaceable talent.

Itís going to be hard for them to unload Thompson. Their best bet is moving Love for cheaper players and a pick or two.
I don't know, Thompson will only have 2 years left this summer and while he is definitely overpaid at 17.4 and 18.5, he at least serves a useful enough role that they might be able to find a taker for an Asik type player (not necessarily Asik, but something like that where the Cavs get a worse player but on a cheaper contract).

And the Cavs really only have this problem for the 18-19 season. As they can get out from Korver, Hill, and Smith before the 19-20 season (they still might be in the tax, but not so far into it that it is a huge problem).

I think I just heard someone say Tristan Thompson serves an useful role. Other than rebounding, this guy just sucks in literally every facet of the game. Can't shoot, can't pass, can't even defend as well anymore, and literally doesn't know how to move on offense besides pick and rolling, (which even any competent big man can do at the start of high school,) no one is going to offer to take his contract on lest they get offered at least a second rounder or 1st pick with protections.
Since Thompson went back to the starting lineup (10 games), he is playing 26 mpg and averaging 8 and 7, while "shooting" 62% from the field.  He has even been a near 60% foul shooter on the season (so not the total liability he was last year).  Obviously, that isn't worth 18 million a year, but if you are the Bulls would you rather pay Thompson 18 million a year for the next two years or Asik 11.5 million a year for the next two years.  At least you can put Thompson on the floor.   Asik is completely worthless.
The bulls arenít going anywhere in the next two years.  Iíd rather pay Asik to do nothing by a mile.
Bulls are likely going to be below the cap though. A guy that you can actually play makes way more sense then a paper weight.  Of course the Knicks I thought of as well.  Noah and Lee for Thomson and Smith saves the Cavs over a million and other players could be added saving the Cavs more money (like Korver for Mudiay or Baker)
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: celticsclay on February 17, 2018, 04:58:05 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if they find a way to unload Tristan Thompson and Kyle Korver somehow.

They may also explore trading Kevin Love for several cheaper younger pieces.

As valuable as TT and JR were for them in the 2016 Finals, this shows you why it's important not to drastically overpay for replaceable talent.

Itís going to be hard for them to unload Thompson. Their best bet is moving Love for cheaper players and a pick or two.
I don't know, Thompson will only have 2 years left this summer and while he is definitely overpaid at 17.4 and 18.5, he at least serves a useful enough role that they might be able to find a taker for an Asik type player (not necessarily Asik, but something like that where the Cavs get a worse player but on a cheaper contract).

And the Cavs really only have this problem for the 18-19 season. As they can get out from Korver, Hill, and Smith before the 19-20 season (they still might be in the tax, but not so far into it that it is a huge problem).

I think I just heard someone say Tristan Thompson serves an useful role. Other than rebounding, this guy just sucks in literally every facet of the game. Can't shoot, can't pass, can't even defend as well anymore, and literally doesn't know how to move on offense besides pick and rolling, (which even any competent big man can do at the start of high school,) no one is going to offer to take his contract on lest they get offered at least a second rounder or 1st pick with protections.
Since Thompson went back to the starting lineup (10 games), he is playing 26 mpg and averaging 8 and 7, while "shooting" 62% from the field.  He has even been a near 60% foul shooter on the season (so not the total liability he was last year).  Obviously, that isn't worth 18 million a year, but if you are the Bulls would you rather pay Thompson 18 million a year for the next two years or Asik 11.5 million a year for the next two years.  At least you can put Thompson on the floor.   Asik is completely worthless.
The bulls arenít going anywhere in the next two years.  Iíd rather pay Asik to do nothing by a mile.
also Thompson brings the kardashian circus with him. This is actually a factor for a fringe useful player. Cavs will have a hard time moving him
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: RodyTur10 on February 17, 2018, 05:53:19 PM
How much is Golden State going to pay next season?? And 2 years from now??

Surely they would also be paying a massive luxury tax in the coming years. I doubt Klay and Draymond take massive pay cuts to stay, and even with KD taking some pay cuts to keep some bench guys (Iguodala, etc.), they are still paying a pretty big luxury tax I believe.

Theyíre going to get squeezed, but they made $90 million profit last year, so theyíve got a lot of wiggle room.

And Golden State has so much success I don't think the owners would care about the money.

I read that Abramovich (owner of Chelsea FC) has spend 2 billion since he became owner in 2003. They've won 5 national titles in England and 1 Champions League. I think he's very pleased with the result.
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: Moranis on February 17, 2018, 05:54:50 PM
How much is Golden State going to pay next season?? And 2 years from now??

Surely they would also be paying a massive luxury tax in the coming years. I doubt Klay and Draymond take massive pay cuts to stay, and even with KD taking some pay cuts to keep some bench guys (Iguodala, etc.), they are still paying a pretty big luxury tax I believe.

Theyíre going to get squeezed, but they made $90 million profit last year, so theyíve got a lot of wiggle room.

And Golden State has so much success I don't think the owners would care about the money.

I read that Abramovich (owner of Chelsea FC) has spend 2 billion since he became owner in 2003. They've won 5 national titles in England and 1 Champions League. I think he's very pleased with the result.
how much you spend has no relevance  it is how much you make or lose that matters
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: RodyTur10 on February 17, 2018, 06:22:30 PM
How much is Golden State going to pay next season?? And 2 years from now??

Surely they would also be paying a massive luxury tax in the coming years. I doubt Klay and Draymond take massive pay cuts to stay, and even with KD taking some pay cuts to keep some bench guys (Iguodala, etc.), they are still paying a pretty big luxury tax I believe.

Theyíre going to get squeezed, but they made $90 million profit last year, so theyíve got a lot of wiggle room.

And Golden State has so much success I don't think the owners would care about the money.

I read that Abramovich (owner of Chelsea FC) has spend 2 billion since he became owner in 2003. They've won 5 national titles in England and 1 Champions League. I think he's very pleased with the result.
how much you spend has no relevance  it is how much you make or lose that matters

I'm not sure I follow.

Abramovich has invested about 2 billion pounds (that is like 2,8 billion dollars). He bought Chelsea in 2003 for around 140 million pounds and he paid of some debts the club had. Then he financed transfers of players in the following years for about 1,7 billion pounds (in football/soccer you don't trade players but you just buy them, like the Celtics would pay 80 million to Phoenix to get Booker for instance).

Apparently most of this investments (like a billion) were in the form of interest-free loans. But that doesn't mean Chelsea has to pay this back, since Abramovich is the owner he just loaned money to himself. A football club generally doesn't make profits and of course he's not going to sell the club, so he spent 2 billion pounds and he won't get that money back. But obviously that doesn't really matter since the club has had great success by his investments.
Title: Re: Cavs, potential 300 million - Why Boston will avoid the luxury tax this summer.
Post by: TheSundanceKid on February 19, 2018, 08:59:13 AM
How much is Golden State going to pay next season?? And 2 years from now??

Surely they would also be paying a massive luxury tax in the coming years. I doubt Klay and Draymond take massive pay cuts to stay, and even with KD taking some pay cuts to keep some bench guys (Iguodala, etc.), they are still paying a pretty big luxury tax I believe.

Theyíre going to get squeezed, but they made $90 million profit last year, so theyíve got a lot of wiggle room.

And Golden State has so much success I don't think the owners would care about the money.

I read that Abramovich (owner of Chelsea FC) has spend 2 billion since he became owner in 2003. They've won 5 national titles in England and 1 Champions League. I think he's very pleased with the result.
how much you spend has no relevance  it is how much you make or lose that matters

I'm not sure I follow.

Abramovich has invested about 2 billion pounds (that is like 2,8 billion dollars). He bought Chelsea in 2003 for around 140 million pounds and he paid of some debts the club had. Then he financed transfers of players in the following years for about 1,7 billion pounds (in football/soccer you don't trade players but you just buy them, like the Celtics would pay 80 million to Phoenix to get Booker for instance).

Apparently most of this investments (like a billion) were in the form of interest-free loans. But that doesn't mean Chelsea has to pay this back, since Abramovich is the owner he just loaned money to himself. A football club generally doesn't make profits and of course he's not going to sell the club, so he spent 2 billion pounds and he won't get that money back. But obviously that doesn't really matter since the club has had great success by his investments.

Just to be super clear on this point, they absolutely do make profits. The latest TV deal is the same size as the NBA one but only split between 20 teams.
Chelsea do tend to make a loss but they are an exception not a rule at the top. The latest available figures have Man Utd making £50m in 2015-16. 12 clubs made a profit, 8 didn't. But all 20 saw a huge increase in sale price which bodes well for when they eventually sell on.
On Abramovich, he probably won't get that money back but because of the way it's structured he could decide to milk the club until he does. I don't see him ever selling though, he seems to have too much fun, the club is just a play thing for him.