CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: KG Living Legend on October 11, 2017, 02:04:20 PM
-
"Boston is going to be all love," Thomas told Sports Illustrated. "I might not ever talk to Danny again. That might not happen. I'll talk to everybody else. But what he did, knowing everything I went through, you don't do that, bro. That's not right. I'm not saying eff you. But every team in this situation comes out a year or two later and says, 'We made a mistake.' That's what they'll say, too."
Thomas' comment about what he "went through" was a reference to his efforts in helping the Celtics reach the Eastern Conference finals despite losing his sister to a car accident the day before the playoffs began, and then playing through a right hip injury that ultimately sidelined him.
Despite his efforts, he was traded to the Cavs in the Kyrie Irving blockbuster.
Ainge, the Celtics' president of basketball operations, has cited the uncertainty about Thomas' injury and his impending free agency next summer as two reasons for making the deal. But Thomas says he's still puzzled over it.
"None of it made any sense," Thomas said, according to SI. "It still doesn't make any sense. I'm still asking, 'What the hell happened?' It's a trade you make in NBA2K. It's not a trade you make in real life."
-
I get what Danny did hurts the fan base, but he made a good move for the Celtics. I highly doubt Ainge is going to rue the day he traded IT and other pieces for Kyrie.
-
Boohoo IT4 playing the victim card. Celtics did not make IT4 play. He wanted to play. Quit twisting it around to make it look like Boston is the enemy.
And secondly, PP34 and KG would never complain about getting traded. They never complained about Danny Ainge. IT4 needs to learn to suck it up. First bragging about a max contract, then getting frustrated over a trade getting injured etc, and now he's whining he should've never played = ????? He's definitely getting his big ego from LeBron already. Stay with LBJ and the Cavs and enjoy that eventual dumpster fire lol.
Loving every second of that Kyrie trade.
-
This is a childish stance. A GM doesn't keep their job by getting bogged down with sentimentality. IT would be foolish to have not done the same in DA's position.
-
"Boston is going to be all love," Thomas told Sports Illustrated. "I might not ever talk to Danny again. That might not happen. I'll talk to everybody else. But what he did, knowing everything I went through, you don't do that, bro. That's not right. I'm not saying eff you. But every team in this situation comes out a year or two later and says, 'We made a mistake.' That's what they'll say, too."
Thomas' comment about what he "went through" was a reference to his efforts in helping the Celtics reach the Eastern Conference finals despite losing his sister to a car accident the day before the playoffs began, and then playing through a right hip injury that ultimately sidelined him.
Despite his efforts, he was traded to the Cavs in the Kyrie Irving blockbuster.
Ainge, the Celtics' president of basketball operations, has cited the uncertainty about Thomas' injury and his impending free agency next summer as two reasons for making the deal. But Thomas says he's still puzzled over it.
"None of it made any sense," Thomas said, according to SI. "It still doesn't make any sense. I'm still asking, 'What the hell happened?' It's a trade you make in NBA2K. It's not a trade you make in real life."
sleazy move by Danny......but also a cold hearted calculated move for the better
IT4 went from being Boston chosen son to nobody wanting him (between Celts and Cavs) the next
Its a modern day Cinderella story
-
Of course he's mad leaving the best fan base in sports. This is all his beef is about. We worshiped him, he loved it. He gave his all to the franchise because it helped fuel what we thought of him. He knows he'll never get that feeling again. He's bitter.
End of the day he's still rich and I'm still a Celtics fan.
-
Of course he's mad leaving the best fan base in sports. This is all his beef is about. We worshiped him, he loved it. He gave his all to the franchise because it helped fuel what we thought of him. He knows he'll never get that feeling again. He's bitter.
End of the day he's still rich and I'm still a Celtics fan.
You summed it up perfectly!TP
-
Of course he's mad leaving the best fan base in sports. This is all his beef is about. We worshiped him, he loved it. He gave his all to the franchise because it helped fuel what we thought of him. He knows he'll never get that feeling again. He's bitter.
End of the day he's still rich and I'm still a Celtics fan.
You summed it up perfectly!TP
Yep TP.
-
I'm 100% fine with IT on this, especially because he clarifies that its nothing but love for the rest of Boston. People are allowed to dislike their old bosses, especially when they do the equivalent of firing you. Fans have to let IT be mad at Danny...it also makes a better narrative IMO.
-
This seems so much like the 01/02 team that Ainge broke up that everyone was hoping would breakthrough. If it wasnt for Brown and the Nets picks Im not sure how much different this team was than that team and I believe Ainge felt the same way thus the immediate comment about good but not great players.
-
And secondly, PP34 and KG would never complain about getting traded. They never complained about Danny Ainge.
Didn't Danny talk with both of them about the Brooklyn trade? They had to agree to it before hand.
-
I wonder what Danny’s call to IT the day he was traded was like...
-
And secondly, PP34 and KG would never complain about getting traded. They never complained about Danny Ainge.
Didn't Danny talk with both of them about the Brooklyn trade? They had to agree to it before hand.
Yes cus KG had a no trade clause if I recall correctly.
-
A lot of times I see fans on the board try to "dehumanize" sports and I think it's a ridiculous notion. Not everyone is a fan because of geography, I for example am a Celtics fan because of Pierce and how he fought for his team. I respected that drive to become better and destroy opponents for his team and yes he became rich while doing it but that doesn't mean he didn't "bleed green".
I.T. bled green by every definition of the term, he gave his all and then some for this team. So even though Danny may have made the "right" decision, that doesn't mean we have to trivialize someone's sacrifice by saying, "oh he's rich" or "it's the business of basketball".
If I.T. had won a title in Bean Town it would be 10 times bigger than our better, but manufactured team. Only 4 guys on this team fought through our rebuild... and even now Smart doesn't have an extension offer. Winning is great, but winning with your guys is even better.
Much love I.T. ... It'll always be love.
-
I wonder what Danny’s call to IT the day he was traded was like...
It went down like this...
IT was on vacation I believe travelling in a vehicle when he got the call from Danny. Initially IT thought Danny was just checking up or possibly going to inform him on another player being traded.
Danny and IT exchanged brief pleasantries before Danny cut to the chase "IT, Im calling to tell you I've traded you to the Cavs for Kyrie". Danny goes on to talk about everything IT has meant to the Celtics and Boston but IT cuts him off short "Thank you for what your saying but I really just have to let you go". Conversation ends, it was brief and to the point.
-
Isaiah Thomas isn't sure he could ever speak to Danny Ainge again. "It takes more than talent. [Celtics] lost a lot of heart and soul."
A guy who believe he is the heart and soul of a team never tells the world the team lost one
I let CBS coach sometimes.... Back up the Brinks truck...
Kind of glad we traded this little kocky sog .... at the end of the day....
-
I wish IT the best and I totally understand him.
These feelings will get better over time but I get that he's still upset on how it happened.
-
I wonder what Danny’s call to IT the day he was traded was like...
It went down like this...
IT was on vacation I believe travelling in a vehicle when he got the call from Danny. Initially IT thought Danny was just checking up or possibly going to inform him on another player being traded.
Danny and IT exchanged brief pleasantries before Danny cut to the chase "IT, Im calling to tell you I've traded you to the Cavs for Kyrie". Danny goes on to talk about everything IT has meant to the Celtics and Boston but IT cuts him off short "Thank you for what your saying but I really just have to let you go". Conversation ends, it was brief and to the point.
maybe but Danny said in a presser the day of the trade that it was a very emotional private convo
-
A lot of times I see fans on the board try to "dehumanize" sports and I think it's a ridiculous notion. Not everyone is a fan because of geography, I for example am a Celtics fan because of Pierce and how he fought for his team. I respected that drive to become better and destroy opponents for his team and yes he became rich while doing it but that doesn't mean he didn't "bleed green".
I.T. bled green by every definition of the term, he gave his all and then some for this team. So even though Danny may have made the "right" decision, that doesn't mean we have to trivialize someone's sacrifice by saying, "oh he's rich" or "it's the business of basketball".
If I.T. had won a title in Bean Town it would be 10 times bigger than our better, but manufactured team. Only 4 guys on this team fought through our rebuild... and even now Smart doesn't have an extension offer. Winning is great, but winning with your guys is even better.
Much love I.T. ... It'll always be love.
Wait our better but manufactured team? On the 2008 team 2 of the 3 best players werent on the team the year before and 4 of the top 7 werent either. This team is very similar to that one except you dont have a guy who has been here 4 or 5 years that you have grown to love.
I get it, IT brought alot to the table but at no point last year or even this year before the trade did I think they were going to be in the title hunt unless Brown or Tatum got them there being major contributors and that wouldnt have likely have happened with Crowder still here.
-
Not for nothing, but why is IT still talking about Boston? I totally understand that he may be bitter about the whole situation, but he should move on and focus on Cleveland. It's almost as if he keeps looking over his shoulder, and hoping it was all a bad dream, so that he can come running back to Boston and wants nothing to do with Cleveland.
-
I wonder what Danny’s call to IT the day he was traded was like...
It went down like this...
IT was on vacation I believe travelling in a vehicle when he got the call from Danny. Initially IT thought Danny was just checking up or possibly going to inform him on another player being traded.
Danny and IT exchanged brief pleasantries before Danny cut to the chase "IT, Im calling to tell you I've traded you to the Cavs for Kyrie". Danny goes on to talk about everything IT has meant to the Celtics and Boston but IT cuts him off short "Thank you for what your saying but I really just have to let you go". Conversation ends, it was brief and to the point.
maybe but Danny said in a presser the day of the trade that it was a very emotional private convo
Im repeating exactly what IT said about it. Doesn't seem like he is lying or would have reason to lie.
-
I never understood the vindictiveness some people here have for IT. He tried his heart out and worked his butt off for the Celtics while he was here. Kyrie is an upgrade and Danny did the right thing for the team given the circumstances but IT wouldn't be the competitive player he is if he admitted that. It's natural for him to feel bitterness, anyone would in his position. He felt he gave the team everything and his reward was to be traded from a city and a team he loved. In his position would anyone feel differently from an emotional point of view?
The reality is that in professional sports nobody is owed anything other than the money that they are being paid. There's no loyalty in professional sports. Danny's job is to make sure the Celtics are the best they can be, in both the short and the long terms. IT probably forgot that, thought he had found a home here, thought he would be here as a long termer. He was reminded of the realities of professional sports when a better opportunity for the team came along and Danny took it and good on Danny for doing that. That's Danny's job.
But there's really no need to be vindictive towards the guy, he did the team, the organization and the fan base proud while he was here. It will probably take him a while to get over it and that's understandable. We can at least try to be gracious towards the guy.
-
If he hadn't been traded, he would've become a free agent next year, and if Ainge didn't offer him the max, he would've taken it from another team, and in that event we wouldn't be hearing that Ainge refuses to talk to Isaiah again.
-
He'll get over it eventually. Get healthy first dude.
-
Lately in starting to wonder is there is truth to the rumors that IT was a locker room issue. He always appears to have been a rational guy in the past, but since the trade has gone on a lot of odd, (and in some cases borderline delusional) rants that leave me wondering if he is, mentally, quite right.
I totally get he's been through a lot and can get him being hurt by the move...but almost every time I've seen a star get traded they give the usual ™is a business and they need to do what they feel is best for the team" response. I get he has extra attachment emotionally this season for a variety reasons but still...
-
ah heck.....whats a measly 80 million between two friends....
Forgive and forget.
-
I wonder what Danny’s call to IT the day he was traded was like...
It went down like this...
IT was on vacation I believe travelling in a vehicle when he got the call from Danny. Initially IT thought Danny was just checking up or possibly going to inform him on another player being traded.
Danny and IT exchanged brief pleasantries before Danny cut to the chase "IT, Im calling to tell you I've traded you to the Cavs for Kyrie". Danny goes on to talk about everything IT has meant to the Celtics and Boston but IT cuts him off short "Thank you for what your saying but I really just have to let you go". Conversation ends, it was brief and to the point.
maybe but Danny said in a presser the day of the trade that it was a very emotional private convo
Im repeating exactly what IT said about it. Doesn't seem like he is lying or would have reason to lie.
I'm not so sure after how all over the place he's been lately.
-
I'm obviously in IT's corner here. The trade probably makes us better long-term, but doesn't change that fact. Imo, this comment reflects the chip on IT's shoulder that has made him a great player. Wish the very best for him, hope to see him play in the Finals.
The unfortunate part, from a selfish standpoint, is that I'm certain I won't warm up to Kyrie in the same way. We were lucky to have IT in Boston. I wish Ainge had traded in his chips for another guy that represented what Boston is all about.
I've always preferred to root for a team that may fall just short, but has an identity I can really appreciate and get behind. I don't see that with this team yet. But I sincerely hope a couple of our current guys wear their hard hats to work.
-
I'm surprised there isn't a level of understanding yet. I can understand if these were his thoughts directly after the trade, but after all this time he still doesn't acknowledge that Ainge did what he thought was best for the team?
After all, Thomas was the one who implied that if Boston doesn't give him a max contract, he'd have to find it somewhere else because he needed to do what was best for his family. Ainge has the same priority. If he wishes to stay employed he has to make every move that he feels makes this team better.
Unfortunately it's a business.
-
ah heck.....whats a measly 80 million between two friends....
Forgive and forget.
Ainge prob crying his heart out right now
-
I'm obviously in IT's corner here. The trade probably makes us better long-term, but doesn't change that fact. Imo, this comment reflects the chip on IT's shoulder that has made him a great player. Wish the very best for him, hope to see him play in the Finals.
The unfortunate part, from a selfish standpoint, is that I'm certain I won't warm up to Kyrie in the same way. We were lucky to have IT in Boston. I wish Ainge had traded in his chips for another guy that represented what Boston is all about.
I've always preferred to root for a team that may fall just short, but has an identity I can really appreciate and get behind. I don't see that with this team yet. But I sincerely hope a couple of our current guys wear their hard hats to work.
Can I ask what other sports teams you're a fan of? Assuming that you're a Boston sports fans, the city has become one of the winning-est cities in the four major sports so it's a bit easier to say "I'd rather root for a team that just falls short as long as they represent some imaginary standard that I've made up" when you have the city of champions. Prior to the Cavs winning last season - Cleveland's first sports title in 52 years - I'm sure they'd trade in those years where Lebron's teams won the regular season record, but got knocked out in the playoffs for a title for any of their sports teams.
-
Everyone was a winner in the Kyrie-IT trade, except for IT.
Boston got a top tier, young scorer who is healthy, locked up, proven to be able to produce in the finals, and eager to play for Brad Stevens.
Cleveland got a top tier draft pick in a loaded draft plus a great wing defender on a cheap deal, and a big man prospect for a guy who wanted to leave. The Nets pick and Zizic are excellent pieces to key their rebuild after Lebron leaves next summer. Not to mention they also got an all-star PG, but hobbled and due a new contract. Still, IT could help them hang another banner this spring, or be a good piece in a trade for more picks/prospects.
IT however, lost his chance at a big pay day after the best season of his life, and one of the best individual seasons by any Celtics player in the modern era. He lost out big time on some serious cash, and he may never get the chance to recover that money.
-
After all, Thomas was the one who implied that if Boston doesn't give him a max contract, he'd have to find it somewhere else because he needed to do what was best for his family.
And there would've been a Player's Tribune article from him with that exact explanation, apologizing to Boston fans, etc. He would've moved on with no regrets. I'm pretty sick of Isaiah's hypocritical emotional bull**** at this point.
-
Everyone was a winner in the Kyrie-IT trade, except for IT.
Boston got a top tier, young scorer who is healthy, locked up, proven to be able to produce in the finals, and eager to play for Brad Stevens.
Cleveland got a top tier draft pick in a loaded draft plus a great wing defender on a cheap deal, and a big man prospect for a guy who wanted to leave. The Nets pick and Zizic are excellent pieces to key their rebuild after Lebron leaves next summer. Not to mention they also got an all-star PG, but hobbled and due a new contract. Still, IT could help them hang another banner this spring, or be a good piece in a trade for more picks/prospects.
IT however, lost his chance at a big pay day after the best season of his life, and one of the best individual seasons by any Celtics player in the modern era. He lost out big time on some serious cash, and he may never get the chance to recover that money.
Would that be different if the C's didn't trade him? He would still be injured and missing substantial time. Danny would likely still be hesitant to give him a max payday.
We just watched a guy who's played 31 games out of a possible 246 games sign a max deal. IT can still get paid if he makes it onto the court and shows enough.
-
In a nut shell:
I appreciate all Thomas gave to the team. Love his effort and his game. His recruiting guys was great. I hope he gets healthy and makes a lot of money in his career.
His comments about wanting to be a max contract, not smart as he isn't one. His injury is what it is, he never again be at the level he played last year or close. In the playoffs a simple pick and switch exposed our defense to show you cannot have a guard that size playing minutes like that. Granted IT works his butt off on defense but his size KILLED us on every simple play like that.
Ainge, cold calculated killer Mormon sure but good-great move to improve team.
I wish we still had Bradley and KO but you know what we improved moving them.
-
Everyone was a winner in the Kyrie-IT trade, except for IT.
Boston got a top tier, young scorer who is healthy, locked up, proven to be able to produce in the finals, and eager to play for Brad Stevens.
Cleveland got a top tier draft pick in a loaded draft plus a great wing defender on a cheap deal, and a big man prospect for a guy who wanted to leave. The Nets pick and Zizic are excellent pieces to key their rebuild after Lebron leaves next summer. Not to mention they also got an all-star PG, but hobbled and due a new contract. Still, IT could help them hang another banner this spring, or be a good piece in a trade for more picks/prospects.
IT however, lost his chance at a big pay day after the best season of his life, and one of the best individual seasons by any Celtics player in the modern era. He lost out big time on some serious cash, and he may never get the chance to recover that money.
Cleveland could end up loosers. Zizic might not pan out, crowder is a solid sub on a cheap deal but limited. IT is he comes back will probably leave. Team isn't good enough Lebrun leaves. Full rebuild with a chance at good draft pick
-
Not for nothing, but why is IT still talking about Boston? I totally understand that he may be bitter about the whole situation, but he should move on and focus on Cleveland. It's almost as if he keeps looking over his shoulder, and hoping it was all a bad dream, so that he can come running back to Boston and wants nothing to do with Cleveland.
Because the national (and local) media keep asking him about it.
This is a great angle for the national NBA media, which is largely anti-Celtics. They portray IT in the best possible light - playing through injury and personal heartbreak to lead a team with zero talent to the ECF - while simultaneously crapping on Danny Ainge, who they really hate, as being a cold-hearted Edited for profanity. Please do not do it again. who kicks a man when he is down.
Of course, this is the same media that thought IT was only a slightly-above average player, a role player, who could be an offensive spark off the bench. Danny thought differently, and IT wouldn't be where he is today without Ainge. So the hypocrisy is very rich.
-
*eyeroll* Enough with the high school drama already.
-
*eyeroll* Enough with the high school drama already.
He's on the Cavs now. It's in the water over there.
Seriously though, it's Spreewell all over again with the silliness about what's best for the family. You make $6M per, and already 30M career, before age 30. The family's fine. Mine could use a break on tickets for the one game we are able to see most seasons.
-
I agree about the drama. If IT needs to blame DA then fine whatever. But IT's injury seems like the real issue here. If we had another player on the verge of requiring an overpay to keep him but then gets injured, do you think DA does the same thing?
If IT doesn't get injured, does anyone think DA still trades him?
-
Either way, Celtics players from now on will think twice before shouting 'roll out the brink trucks' whenever anyone asks them about a new contract.
-
I agree about the drama. If IT needs to blame DA then fine whatever. But IT's injury seems like the real issue here. If we had another player on the verge of requiring an overpay to keep him but then gets injured, do you think DA does the same thing?
If IT doesn't get injured, does anyone think DA still trades him?
Yes, but we probably substitute the Nets pick for the C's 2018 pick (mid to late 20s).
I think Danny just believes Kyrie is a better talent and has a higher ceiling.
-
I don't blame IT for the emotion -- there is no doubt in my mind that the events of the last 6 months are all still swirling in his brain/body and he probably needs to lash out a bit. It's also probable that he blames himself a little and to project this onto Danny is understandable.
In retrospect -- knowing that he's been traded away from his the team he invested his heart into, perhaps he has some regret about the public way he spoke about the Brinks Truck. If IT knew that his "public negotiations (Brinks Truck) were sending a clear message to C's ownership/management about his intentions (pay me MAX or I'm gone), maybe he decides instead to talk privately with Danny. Maybe he tells Danny that he really wants to remain with the Celtics. Maybe he says that he'll take a bargain contract/extension in return for a no-trade commitment.
But... it turns out that his strategy backfired. And maybe part of his anti-Danny sentiment ("Danny's mistake") is actually about regretting his own mistake.
-
I feel for Isaiah Thomas, because without him, we don't get no ECF. We definitely don't get no Hayward. And Horford definitely doesn't even bother giving us a second hand look.
He built something here. Yes, he was flawed, but he if he wasn't, I don't think the trade would've ever been assembled.
And I do understand IT's perspective. Yes, he's coming off a slight bit childish, but take it from his POV. He came here, after being dismissed by SAC/PHX, and after finally settling in with the right coach, and a good system tailored to help him excel and score off the PnR's, then he gets traded to a team for another PG, whilst the whole fiasco with his hip injury is destroying any subtle chances of acquiring the max contract.
My only wish from IT during his tenture here, was his whole brinks truck comment... I mean... Why even say it so many times? We get it. You want a max. But the problem is, giving IT a max, would've been exorbitantly high, and affect our cap space. Plus, there were players just like IT, who were extremely underpaid, but other than Bradley, who briefly mentioned it, then fired his agent, is there anyone else on our roster who kept complaining about their contract?
Like everyone has said. It's a business.
-
"Boston is going to be all love," Thomas told Sports Illustrated. "I might not ever talk to Danny again. That might not happen. I'll talk to everybody else. But what he did, knowing everything I went through, you don't do that, bro. That's not right. I'm not saying eff you. But every team in this situation comes out a year or two later and says, 'We made a mistake.' That's what they'll say, too."
Thomas' comment about what he "went through" was a reference to his efforts in helping the Celtics reach the Eastern Conference finals despite losing his sister to a car accident the day before the playoffs began, and then playing through a right hip injury that ultimately sidelined him.
Despite his efforts, he was traded to the Cavs in the Kyrie Irving blockbuster.
Ainge, the Celtics' president of basketball operations, has cited the uncertainty about Thomas' injury and his impending free agency next summer as two reasons for making the deal. But Thomas says he's still puzzled over it.
"None of it made any sense," Thomas said, according to SI. "It still doesn't make any sense. I'm still asking, 'What the hell happened?' It's a trade you make in NBA2K. It's not a trade you make in real life."
sleazy move by Danny......but also a cold hearted calculated move for the better
IT4 went from being Boston chosen son to nobody wanting him (between Celts and Cavs) the next
Its a modern day Cinderella story
How was it sleazy? Last I checked, IT makes a lot of money now, and will make mulit-generational wealth next year. In the meantime, he gets to pass to the best player in basketball (there might not be an easier assist in the league). When he's not doing that, he gets to be a high volume shooter and scorer. If its not a great fit, he gets to make the decision where he wants to play, as there will be many teams that need scoring.
IT's just being emotional. I get it, and I'm ok with it. He played well for us, but last year's team with him at the point hit their ceiling.
Kyrie has more potential than IT. Taking the contrarian stance in this instance seems goofy, at least in my eyes.
If I was Danny, I would make this trade 10/10 times. I don't get the sleazy take.
-
IT is still butt hurt and he's on a team that can go to the Finals and he's a FA. It's not like he won 2 titles in Boston. It only became possible when Irving wanted out and then the negotiations dragged out because the Cavs were shopping him around. IT acts like he is Bron and all moves needed to be run through him first. I think there were only a handful of guys Ainge would've traded him for and Irving was in that handful.
Get healthy IT and then get your money.
-
Either way, Celtics players from now on will think twice before shouting 'roll out the brink trucks' whenever anyone asks them about a new contract.
Agree. It's not a professional move to discuss your salary with the media.
IT definitely had a chip on his shoulder, and for good reason.
Fans will never feel sympathetic for millionaires who aren't happy with how much money they make. In this regard, he should be able to better identify his target audience.
-
Isaiah Thomas better be careful lol.
If he ever comes back to BOS, Danny Ainge won't think twice about trading him to SAC. But seriously.... Thomas cannot complain about the trade... Bradley got sent over to the freaking Pistons for Gods sake! Lol.
-
Why wouldn't he be upset with Danny? He massively outperformed his contract, played at an All-NBA level, and played through physical and emotional pain while aggravating an injury that will likely cost him many millions of dollars. He was the embodiment of a leader and a Celtic, and never complained even though the training staff possibly / probably misdiagnosed his injury. He was the team's head recruiter and a face of the franchise to be proud of.
Despite that, neither he nor his agent were even given a heads up that he was being shopped.
Who wouldn't be salty in that situation? Despite being treated like a damaged "asset", rather than a human being, he still has expressed love for the city, fans and teammates.
-
While rightfully so IT had his supporters here, he's not what was good for this team. Glad he's gone but enjoyed watching him play.
-
Either way, Celtics players from now on will think twice before shouting 'roll out the brink trucks' whenever anyone asks them about a new contract.
It's not like that has any relevance to whether will trade a player, though. AB and Jae were both traded despite never complaining about their bargain contracts.
-
Why wouldn't he be upset with Danny? He massively outperformed his contract, played at an All-NBA level, and played through physical and emotional pain while aggravating an injury that will likely cost him many millions of dollars. He was the embodiment of a leader and a Celtic, and never complained even though the training staff possibly / probably misdiagnosed his injury. He was the team's head recruiter and a face of the franchise to be proud of.
Despite that, neither he nor his agent were even given a heads up that he was being shopped.
Who wouldn't be salty in that situation? Despite being treated like a damaged "asset", rather than a human being, he still has expressed love for the city, fans and teammates.
Very well said.
-
Without Danny Ainge there's a solid chance Isaiah never becomes a starting point guard in the NBA again. Without Ainge he probably doesnt become an All Star again. The binks truck is arguably never bringing a max contract for IT without the Celtics foresight.
Jae Crowder probably doesnt sign a $6/7 million a year deal unless Danny Ainge makes him a key piece of the Rondo trade.
Danny Ainge made a tough business decision that he felt was in the best interest of his beloved Celtics.
Isaiah is understandably emotionally hurt by the events.
A potentially huge positive expectation opportunity came up and Danny Ainge took it.
And personally, I'm glad he did.
-
Without Danny Ainge there's a solid chance Isaiah never becomes a starting point guard in the NBA again. Without Ainge he probably doesnt become an All Star again. The binks truck is arguably never bringing a max contract for IT without the Celtics foresight.
Jae Crowder probably doesnt sign a $6/7 million a year deal unless Danny Ainge makes him a key piece of the Rondo trade.
Danny Ainge made a tough business decision that he felt was in the best interest of his beloved Celtics.
Isaiah is understandably emotionally hurt by the events.
A potentially huge positive expectation opportunity came up and Danny Ainge took it.
And personally, I'm glad he did.
Would Ainge have been in the same position, and the Celtics organization at large, were it not for IT? Serious question, not intending to be inflammatory here.
-
Why wouldn't he be upset with Danny? He massively outperformed his contract, played at an All-NBA level, and played through physical and emotional pain while aggravating an injury that will likely cost him many millions of dollars. He was the embodiment of a leader and a Celtic, and never complained even though the training staff possibly / probably misdiagnosed his injury. He was the team's head recruiter and a face of the franchise to be proud of.
Despite that, neither he nor his agent were even given a heads up that he was being shopped.
Who wouldn't be salty in that situation? Despite being treated like a damaged "asset", rather than a human being, he still has expressed love for the city, fans and teammates.
All that is true but IT needs to grow up a bit. He is in a league where trades are part of the scenery and anyone can be traded (Shaq, Pierce, Garnett, etc.). Ainge has to do his job. He has no obligation to tell IT what he is doing and in fact, should NOT tip his hand.
This is a business, not a 4H club.
-
Danny s job is to make the team better ......# 1. and he is the man that has to make tuff choices . First loyalty is to the Club and owners .
IT is no Kobe .
IT is no more deserving than Pierce or KG .....who both got traded after hanging a banner.
Bad luck for IT to get hurt and Irving choosing to leave atnthe exact sam time.
I d done exactly what Danny did .
If i was the owner , I d been mad if he did not try and get Irving .
-
Why wouldn't he be upset with Danny? He massively outperformed his contract, played at an All-NBA level, and played through physical and emotional pain while aggravating an injury that will likely cost him many millions of dollars. He was the embodiment of a leader and a Celtic, and never complained even though the training staff possibly / probably misdiagnosed his injury. He was the team's head recruiter and a face of the franchise to be proud of.
Despite that, neither he nor his agent were even given a heads up that he was being shopped.
Who wouldn't be salty in that situation? Despite being treated like a damaged "asset", rather than a human being, he still has expressed love for the city, fans and teammates.
All that is true but IT needs to grow up a bit. He is in a league where trades are part of the scenery and anyone can be traded (Shaq, Pierce, Garnett, etc.). Ainge has to do his job. He has no obligation to tell IT what he is doing and in fact, should NOT tip his hand.
This is a business, not a 4H club.
This.
Totally understood the feelings behind it, but Danny isn't here for the feelings, he's here to make a winning roster, and he made a move in doing so.
If anything, I don't know why IT is surprised. This is, after all, a guy who traded PAUL PIERCE and KEVIN GARNETT. Anybody on the Celtics roster should have known by now that if Danny seems it fit, he will trade ANYONE.
-
Danny did the best thing for the Celtics.
One thing I have not heard mentioned is the relationship between IT and Danny before the trade. Didn't Ainge kinda convince IT that IT had been his guy for a long time, and that he saw IT becoming a legend in Boston. If my memory is correct then that may be another dimension to IT's reaction to the trade.
-
If he hadn't been traded, he would've become a free agent next year, and if Ainge didn't offer him the max, he would've taken it from another team, and in that event we wouldn't be hearing that Ainge refuses to talk to Isaiah again.
That's kind of my mindset about IT. Hated losing him after the heart and soul he showed this last year, but if he wasn't injured and was playing tonight in his fourth preseason game, then the best thing that would have happened is that we'd get another year...and he'd likely be gone to another team for the max, which he likely wouldn't have gotten in Boston.
So then he would be the one making the decision to leave...should Danny then not speak to him ever again?
Danny did his job...as GM, it is his responsibility to put the team above everything else.
IT did his job...as a player, it is his responsibility to be the best he can be for whatever team signs the paycheck.
It's just unfortunate that with both people doing their job, that it was the fork in the road that we call IT's injury that pushed them in opposite directions.
I wish him the best, glad he doesn't hold it against Celtic fans, and hope he gets that paycheck he deserves....whoever signs it.
Rak
-
I don’t think Isaiah needs to grow up. The only thing that may make him seem immature is that he is being honest and saying how he really feels as opposed to giving the same generic statements that most players give. He could have just said “it’s a business and things like this happen.” Most of the time the people who say that stuff don’t mean it. So he’s immature because he’s honest.
Also, a few people mentioned that he should be happy because he’s still rich. Being rich has nothing to do with it. Isaiah wanted to be loved like Brady and Ortiz. He was at a Patriots practice right before he was traded. He loved Boston. I’m sure he feels like the woman of his dreams just left him. I doubt that he is thinking primarily of money. He is hurt because he was dumped by the team he loved in the city he loved. And then he had the nerve to be honest about it.
-
Danny did the best thing for the Celtics.
One thing I have not heard mentioned is the relationship between IT and Danny before the trade. Didn't Ainge kinda convince IT that IT had been his guy for a long time, and that he saw IT becoming a legend in Boston. If my memory is correct then that may be another dimension to IT's reaction to the trade.
Yes that is probably his angle and understandable. However, Ainge has a reputation as a snake so nothing has changed. Get over it IT, the brinks truck is still coming.
-
Danny did the best thing for the Celtics.
One thing I have not heard mentioned is the relationship between IT and Danny before the trade. Didn't Ainge kinda convince IT that IT had been his guy for a long time, and that he saw IT becoming a legend in Boston. If my memory is correct then that may be another dimension to IT's reaction to the trade.
Danny did this weeks before the trade happened.
https://twitter.com/danielrainge/status/892577347240460288
-
Maybe Thomas shouldn't have been so vocal about wanting a max and having the brinks truck show up. Pretty good way to drive yourself out of town
-
Maybe Thomas shouldn't have been so vocal about wanting a max and having the brinks truck show up. Pretty good way to drive yourself out of town
Danny will trade anybody, regardless of whether they're vocal or quiet, a team leader or a cancer, a veteran or a rookie. Avery Bradley never talked about his contract, and he was traded without any hesitation.
-
Maybe Thomas shouldn't have been so vocal about wanting a max and having the brinks truck show up. Pretty good way to drive yourself out of town
Right, and how about Crowder? Guy signed for a bargain rate and got traded too.
-
Why wouldn't he be upset with Danny? He massively outperformed his contract, played at an All-NBA level, and played through physical and emotional pain while aggravating an injury that will likely cost him many millions of dollars. He was the embodiment of a leader and a Celtic, and never complained even though the training staff possibly / probably misdiagnosed his injury. He was the team's head recruiter and a face of the franchise to be proud of.
Despite that, neither he nor his agent were even given a heads up that he was being shopped.
Who wouldn't be salty in that situation? Despite being treated like a damaged "asset", rather than a human being, he still has expressed love for the city, fans and teammates.
1. Players have break out seasons and outplay their contracts all the time. If a better and younger star comes up, vast majority of the time, a team will trade that player. That's the nature of the game, and it's why most players when they get traded will say things like "I wanted to be there, but trades are part of the game and its out of your control".
2. There is no evidence to indicate the doctors misevaluated the injury - there is lots of heresy, and that's about it. If the injury truly is worse then projected, then you can Blame IT as much as anybody - he's the one going around telling the world he's fine moreso then anybody.
3. Who says he was being shopped? I strongly doubt Danny was calling up teams saying "hey bro, what will you give me for IT?". I don't imagine he had any intention of trading IT - but Kyrie demanded a trade out of Cleveland, and Danny Ainge happened to be the GM of a team with lots of nice assets...so when Cleveland came calling offering a younger, better superstar in return for the ageing, injured, expiring Isaiah Thomas, Danny couldn't say no. It's like my current car. I have an Alfa 147 GTA which I absolutely love, and it's not for sale - I have no desire to sell it. But if somebody stops me randomly and says "hey I'm bored of my Audi S5, want to trade?" - I wouldn't be able to say no. As much as I love my car, I can't say no to having a new, better car that I also really love.
I've always appreciated IT as long as he's been here, but I cannot recall the last time I saw a star player traded from a team and react to it in such a vocal, whiney and borderline obsessive way. Even when Pierce and KG got traded - you think they didn't love Boston at least as much as IT did? You they didn't go through as much as IT did playing here - the amount of pain KG had to go through alter in his career just to get on the court and he'd still give it everything he had every night. Guarantee they both wanted to retire Celtics. But when they got traded they didn't speak a word of hate or negativity towards Danny, Doc, or the organisation. All they did is talk about how much they loved Boston and it's fans and the organisation.
Likewise when Rondo got traded - he was the main man on this team for how long? The face of the franchise for how long ? He got traded out for what (at the time) seemed like scraps, he never complained.
Avery Bradley, the longest tenured Celtic, somebody who gave everything he had every night..he got traded by Danny to a team that might not even be a playoff team, and he got moved for what reason? So they could clear a measly $2m in cap space to sign Gordon Hayward. That's like telling AB his loyalty to the team is not worth $2M. But he's not out there whining every day like IT seems to be.
Not saying he doesn't have the right to be upset, just saying that he seems to be one of the only pro players out there who can't seem to remain professional about the whole situation. The last time I saw a player throw hissy fits of this magnitude was Ray Allen, who in hindsight seems to be a bit of a head case.
Seriously, if you look at some of the things Thomas has said via tweeters and the like since the trade...he really does come across as a bit of a head case himself.
-
Maybe Thomas shouldn't have been so vocal about wanting a max and having the brinks truck show up. Pretty good way to drive yourself out of town
Right, and how about Crowder? Guy signed for a bargain rate and got traded too.
Crowder is a role player. Role players oft get traded. The fact that he's on such a good deal is most likely the only reason this trade was even agreed to by Cleveland.
-
Not saying he doesn't have the right to be upset, just saying that he seems to be one of the only pro players out there who can't seem to remain professional about the whole situation. The last time I saw a player throw hissy fits of this magnitude was Ray Allen, who in hindsight seems to be a bit of a head case.
Seriously, if you look at some of the things Thomas has said via tweeters and the like since the trade...he really does come across as a bit of a head case himself.
A strong man is candid about his emotions and his mental stability is questioned. Typical.
I'd take a team of 15 similar "head cases".
-
Maybe Thomas shouldn't have been so vocal about wanting a max and having the brinks truck show up. Pretty good way to drive yourself out of town
Danny will trade anybody, regardless of whether they're vocal or quiet, a team leader or a cancer, a veteran or a rookie. Avery Bradley never talked about his contract, and he was traded without any hesitation.
As cold hearted as this sounds, that's his job.
Danny's job is to make the deals that he feels are in the best interest of the team, now and in the future. His ability to cut himself off emotionally and make those decisions based purely on basketball is, arguably, his greatest strength as a GM. It's the reason why he was able to make 2 of his greatest moves as a GM:
1. Trading for Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett - had to give up on Al Jefferson, who was a much loved and highly promising young big man. Not an easy decision, but it got Boston banner #17.
2. Brooklyn trade - had to move Pierce and KG, which was not a popular or easy thing to do, but set the team's rebuild process forward by probably 2-3 years.
Three years from now we may well be speaking the same way about Danny's last two difficult decisions:
i) Trading AB in order to clear the cap space required to sign Gordon Hayward
ii) Moving IT and Crowder for Kyrie Irving
I have nothing but respect for organisations like the Spurs, Lakers and Mavericks, who supported Duncan, Kobe and Dirk. I think it's truly admirable that those teams show that kind of loyalty to their players.
However from a business perspective, the Lakers and Mavericks could both be in a far better position right now if they had dealt those star players 2-3 seasons ago to a team in win-now mode, for some quality future assets. So as a friend, what they did was great. As a business decision, it could be the worst decision they could make.
Lets not forget, it was Danny who believed in Thomas enough to trade for him to begin with - it was a move that many of the Celtic fans on this very blog were strongly against, and he was coming of his second straight team that he seemingly couldn't fit in / excel on. Danny took a chance on him, gave him the keys to the team, and gave him the opportunity to be the king in Boston. It took advantage of that opportunity and shone, but he may never have had the career explosion that he did if not for Danny investing in him and many other people would not have.
-
Danny did the best thing for the Celtics.
One thing I have not heard mentioned is the relationship between IT and Danny before the trade. Didn't Ainge kinda convince IT that IT had been his guy for a long time, and that he saw IT becoming a legend in Boston. If my memory is correct then that may be another dimension to IT's reaction to the trade.
This is the issue. To compare Danny to another local icon, Bill Belichick would never do this in a million years. Heck, he barely admits that Tommy Brady has a solid spot on the roster.
If Danny's going the Belichick route - which seems to be his style - he also needs to be up front about it. If he was telling IT different, I think that's unfair.
-
Not saying he doesn't have the right to be upset, just saying that he seems to be one of the only pro players out there who can't seem to remain professional about the whole situation. The last time I saw a player throw hissy fits of this magnitude was Ray Allen, who in hindsight seems to be a bit of a head case.
Seriously, if you look at some of the things Thomas has said via tweeters and the like since the trade...he really does come across as a bit of a head case himself.
A strong man is candid about his emotions and his mental stability is questioned. Typical.
I'd take a team of 15 similar "head cases".
Strength has nothing at all to do with what I am talking about.
Did you see some of the weird stuff h's been putting out there lately? Like that weird youtube video of him training with his kids, rambling madly about Kyrie tweets and how he's gong to score "x" number of points, etc. He goes on and on repeating the same stuff like a raving madman.
My immediate reaction was...wholy crap, IT has done completely mad.
Some of the other things he's said since are only reinforcing that idea. If he doesn't chill out soon he's going to push himself to Ron Artest level lunacy.
-
Not saying he doesn't have the right to be upset, just saying that he seems to be one of the only pro players out there who can't seem to remain professional about the whole situation. The last time I saw a player throw hissy fits of this magnitude was Ray Allen, who in hindsight seems to be a bit of a head case.
Seriously, if you look at some of the things Thomas has said via tweeters and the like since the trade...he really does come across as a bit of a head case himself.
A strong man is candid about his emotions and his mental stability is questioned. Typical.
I'd take a team of 15 similar "head cases".
Strength has nothing at all to do with what I am talking about.
Did you see some of the weird stuff h's been putting out there lately? Like that weird youtube video of him training with his kids, rambling madly about Kyrie tweets and how he's gong to score "x" number of points, etc. He goes on and on repeating the same stuff like a raving madman.
My immediate reaction was...wholy crap, IT has done completely mad.
Some of the other things he's said since are only reinforcing that idea. If he doesn't chill out soon he's going to push himself to Ron Artest level lunacy.
Can't find these videos. Would you mind sharing some links?
-
IT is the man, and he will forever have my respect.
That said, this is a trade a smart GM makes every time. I truthfully Don understand how people don't like this trade.
Kyrie is a better player than IT, and 90% of the time in the NBA, the team that gets the best player wins the trade.
I just hope in 7 months people own up to hating this trade.
-
Not saying he doesn't have the right to be upset, just saying that he seems to be one of the only pro players out there who can't seem to remain professional about the whole situation. The last time I saw a player throw hissy fits of this magnitude was Ray Allen, who in hindsight seems to be a bit of a head case.
Seriously, if you look at some of the things Thomas has said via tweeters and the like since the trade...he really does come across as a bit of a head case himself.
A strong man is candid about his emotions and his mental stability is questioned. Typical.
I'd take a team of 15 similar "head cases".
Strength has nothing at all to do with what I am talking about.
Did you see some of the weird stuff h's been putting out there lately? Like that weird youtube video of him training with his kids, rambling madly about Kyrie tweets and how he's gong to score "x" number of points, etc. He goes on and on repeating the same stuff like a raving madman.
My immediate reaction was...wholy crap, IT has done completely mad.
Some of the other things he's said since are only reinforcing that idea. If he doesn't chill out soon he's going to push himself to Ron Artest level lunacy.
Can't find these videos. Would you mind sharing some links?
Unfortunately tried the video to include in my last post, but couldn't find it. My brother initially linked me to it something like a week after the trade. If I find the link I will add it in.
-
Not saying he doesn't have the right to be upset, just saying that he seems to be one of the only pro players out there who can't seem to remain professional about the whole situation. The last time I saw a player throw hissy fits of this magnitude was Ray Allen, who in hindsight seems to be a bit of a head case.
Seriously, if you look at some of the things Thomas has said via tweeters and the like since the trade...he really does come across as a bit of a head case himself.
A strong man is candid about his emotions and his mental stability is questioned. Typical.
I'd take a team of 15 similar "head cases".
Strength has nothing at all to do with what I am talking about.
Did you see some of the weird stuff h's been putting out there lately? Like that weird youtube video of him training with his kids, rambling madly about Kyrie tweets and how he's gong to score "x" number of points, etc. He goes on and on repeating the same stuff like a raving madman.
My immediate reaction was...wholy crap, IT has done completely mad.
Some of the other things he's said since are only reinforcing that idea. If he doesn't chill out soon he's going to push himself to Ron Artest level lunacy.
Can't find these videos. Would you mind sharing some links?
Unfortunately tried the video to include in my last post, but couldn't find it. My brother initially linked me to it something like a week after the trade. If I find the link I will add it in.
It's cool, thanks.
-
Not saying he doesn't have the right to be upset, just saying that he seems to be one of the only pro players out there who can't seem to remain professional about the whole situation. The last time I saw a player throw hissy fits of this magnitude was Ray Allen, who in hindsight seems to be a bit of a head case.
Seriously, if you look at some of the things Thomas has said via tweeters and the like since the trade...he really does come across as a bit of a head case himself.
A strong man is candid about his emotions and his mental stability is questioned. Typical.
I'd take a team of 15 similar "head cases".
Six year old children are also 'candid' about their emotions. IT isn't mentally unstable, obviously, but his incessant comments about his contract and salary expectations revealed a certain degree of emotional immaturity. His back-and-forth comments about DA and the Celtics also reflect this.
-
IT is the man, and he will forever have my respect.
That said, this is a trade a smart GM makes every time. I truthfully Don understand how people don't like this trade.
Kyrie is a better player than IT, and 90% of the time in the NBA, the team that gets the best player wins the trade.
I just hope in 7 months people own up to hating this trade.
You can't please everyone, unfortunately.
There will always be people who don't like certain players or trades, even ones that are seen almost universally as being positive ones.
Nothing wrong with that, just the unique nature of the human!
-
Without Danny Ainge there's a solid chance Isaiah never becomes a starting point guard in the NBA again. Without Ainge he probably doesnt become an All Star again. The binks truck is arguably never bringing a max contract for IT without the Celtics foresight.
Jae Crowder probably doesnt sign a $6/7 million a year deal unless Danny Ainge makes him a key piece of the Rondo trade.
Danny Ainge made a tough business decision that he felt was in the best interest of his beloved Celtics.
Isaiah is understandably emotionally hurt by the events.
A potentially huge positive expectation opportunity came up and Danny Ainge took it.
And personally, I'm glad he did.
Would Ainge have been in the same position, and the Celtics organization at large, were it not for IT? Serious question, not intending to be inflammatory here.
No offense taken all all mate.
I guess the answer is that Ainge and IT have helped each other.
Ainge's (and Brad's) foresight has helped Isaiah in the form of at least $50 million dollars for IT's famiy's future and IT's play has conversely given us arguably a top 3/5 player in the NBA in the 25 years or younger category.
He also traded him to a team that will be a true championship contender and great situation.
Cuts both ways but IT is hamming this one up with emotions. He likes having another motivator and that's what I think he's doing.
Although i think it's ridiculous for IT to suggest Danny shouldn't trade him after 'what he's been through'. That personal stuff is out of Ainge's control and should be separated from IT's criticism IMO.
-
Without Danny Ainge there's a solid chance Isaiah never becomes a starting point guard in the NBA again. Without Ainge he probably doesnt become an All Star again. The binks truck is arguably never bringing a max contract for IT without the Celtics foresight.
Jae Crowder probably doesnt sign a $6/7 million a year deal unless Danny Ainge makes him a key piece of the Rondo trade.
Danny Ainge made a tough business decision that he felt was in the best interest of his beloved Celtics.
Isaiah is understandably emotionally hurt by the events.
A potentially huge positive expectation opportunity came up and Danny Ainge took it.
And personally, I'm glad he did.
Would Ainge have been in the same position, and the Celtics organization at large, were it not for IT? Serious question, not intending to be inflammatory here.
No offense taken all all mate.
I guess the answer is that Ainge and IT have helped each other.
Ainge's (and Brad's) foresight has helped Isaiah in the form of at least $50 million dollars for IT's famiy's future and IT's play has conversely given us arguably a top 3/5 player in the NBA in the 25 years or younger category.
He also traded him to a team that will be a true championship contender and great situation.
Cuts both ways but IT is hamming this one up with emotions. He likes having another motivator and that's what I think he's doing.
Although i think it's ridiculous for IT to suggest Danny shouldn't trade him after 'what he's been through'. That personal stuff is out of Ainge's control and should be separated from IT's criticism IMO.
I rarely give them out, but this is TP worthy.
-
IT is the man, and he will forever have my respect.
That said, this is a trade a smart GM makes every time. I truthfully Don understand how people don't like this trade.
Kyrie is a better player than IT, and 90% of the time in the NBA, the team that gets the best player wins the trade.
I just hope in 7 months people own up to hating this trade.
They don't like this trade because of the loyalty IT4 gave to the Celtics and how he changed their culture. They also did not liked this trade because it costed them BKN 2018.
-
So I'm guessing that folks that are ok with Thomas airing his grievances will also have no problem if Wings went out and said, "Yeah, I traded his butt because he was injured wand wanted too much money"?
-
So I'm guessing that folks that are ok with Thomas airing his grievances will also have no problem if Wings went out and said, "Yeah, I traded his butt because he was injured and wanted too much money"?
I'm good with that, let them be 100% honest if we are taking this (I-am-hurt) road. I mean, I love IT but he really doesn't ever have to speak with DA again for us to win a championship.
Did he write about that part where Danny took him as an unwanted 3rd child from the Suns and put him in the position to be the 1st violin in the orchestra, after which he became an Allstar and an all NBA performer? DA also traded him to a team that has a greater chance to give him desired max contract, and, by the majorities opinion, a chip. Did I miss that or is he just picking the parts of the story that help his narrative?
Then IT naturally talks about his great new team and amazing new, single coverage, basketball opportunities. He is so happy with his new squad, it almost feels like a Hans Christian Andersen story.
I will side with our team, not 1 ex-player.
Danny's response - calm, truthful, perfect.
With that said, let's kick their ass starting Tuesday.
-
IT has a point, but I think he's mistaken about the whole situation.
I believe the main reason to be upset is the owners not willing to pay IT full max and go into big luxury tax.
Danny make assumption about this that would have to be addressed "sooner or later" in a recent interview.
Anyway even if you understand Danny, that doesn't mean you don't have the right to get mad at him. After all IT put himself after the team.
What I'm worried about is, any star player on a Celtics right now and the future will think twice about sacrificing himself for the sake of the franchise.
That's heart and soul lost (IT is right about that).
Anyway, what is done is done. There are pros and cons. Right now the fans are the winner, because this team will look like a beast sooner than later.
-
I ran into IT in vegas when coming out of the Conor/Mayweather fight and I screamed "IT!! BOSTON LOVES U!". This was like few days after the word came out that he got traded and he genuinely looked like he had sadness in his eyes.
haha, with that said, Danny traded for IT and let him grow and become a star in Boston for him to even dream about brink trucks. Danny traded him to the Cavs, who are favorites to go to the finals so it's not like he got screwed and traded to the bulls. So, if Danny wasn't willing to give IT the max next year and IT left the celtics for another team, wouldn't that just be business as well? Just as IT has the right to look out for himself and try to secure a big contract, Danny has the right to do his job and look out for the team's cap and make business decisions. According to IT, since he gave his all to the team, Danny shouldn't have traded him. But what if IT suffered a more serious injury like tearing his ACL or his achillies, then just because IT gave his all to the team when he was healthy, does that mean Danny should be loyal and keep him on the celtics?
I loved IT on the floor, but honestly, there were a few times during his time in Boston that turned me off. I would hate how he would call out the coach or teammates to the media. This last interview bothers me as well. Of course he can be emotional and all, but to say things like, "I may never speak to Danny again," just makes him look unprofessional. It's really weird timing as well, since on his player's tribune article, he seemed a lot less bitter towards Danny.
-
Im still not convinced even with IT fully heathy Danny doesn't blink and do the trade anyway . I would have . If Im paying somebody , im going with the upgrade . IT very well may have had to,have chose to leave on his own to get the big pay day from another team. ,like AB . Im not sure Danny was going to offer enough to for IT to stay . DA not hesitating to trade and offer big assets kinda points to DA s real thoughts on retaining Thomas in any scenario . A trade might have been waiting in IT s future no matter what.
-
Its a business..get over it!! Ainge had a chance to get a top 10 player and he did..plus Thomas is hurt and wanted a big contract
-
Im still not convinced even with IT fully heathy Danny doesn't blink and do the trade anyway . I would have . If Im paying somebody , im going with the upgrade . IT very well may have had to,have chose to leave on his own to get the big pay day from another team. ,like AB . Im not sure Danny was going to offer enough to for IT to stay . DA not hesitating to trade and offer big assets kinda points to DA s real thoughts on retaining Thomas in any scenario . A trade might have been waiting in IT s future no matter what.
I think if IT was fully healthy, the deal would've looked different. Maybe Ainge gets away with send out the Celtics and/or Memphis pick(s) instead of the Nets pick. Otherwise, I agree. Danny still does a version of the deal because he knew paying IT max money long term was a bad idea but also knew he was earning it with his current play.
I feel for IT. I love the guy and I think it makes perfect sense if he never wants to talk to Ainge again. I also think his attitude toward Boston, post-trade, has showed a ton of class and maturity.
But I also don't fault Ainge a second for doing what's right for the team (as he sees it). Nor would I have faulted IT if he left Boston next summer for a bigger contract somewhere else, if that had happened. Tough situation all around but I don't fault anyone.
-
Im still not convinced even with IT fully heathy Danny doesn't blink and do the trade anyway . I would have . If Im paying somebody , im going with the upgrade . IT very well may have had to,have chose to leave on his own to get the big pay day from another team. ,like AB . Im not sure Danny was going to offer enough to for IT to stay . DA not hesitating to trade and offer big assets kinda points to DA s real thoughts on retaining Thomas in any scenario . A trade might have been waiting in IT s future no matter what.
He might have, but I think it would have been a mistake. Under those circumstances, I think upgrading via another star is the way to go.
I still wish we could have done the Paul George trade. We'd be looking at a core of:
Horford
Tatum
Hayward
George / Brown
IT
Plus we'd have both the BRK and LAL picks. I think that's the team that could have brought down Golden State in a year or two.
-
Maybe Thomas shouldn't have been so vocal about wanting a max and having the brinks truck show up. Pretty good way to drive yourself out of town
Danny will trade anybody, regardless of whether they're vocal or quiet, a team leader or a cancer, a veteran or a rookie. Avery Bradley never talked about his contract, and he was traded without any hesitation.
Sure, but Thomas made it a lot easier by making it known he only wanted a max contract and expected to be paid or he would walk.
-
Maybe Thomas shouldn't have been so vocal about wanting a max and having the brinks truck show up. Pretty good way to drive yourself out of town
Danny will trade anybody, regardless of whether they're vocal or quiet, a team leader or a cancer, a veteran or a rookie. Avery Bradley never talked about his contract, and he was traded without any hesitation.
Sure, but Thomas made it a lot easier by making it known he only wanted a max contract and expected to be paid or he would walk.
I don't recall the "or he would walk" part, although maybe that was implied. I just think IT's statements were completely irrelevant, except perhaps as PR.
-
Im still not convinced even with IT fully heathy Danny doesn't blink and do the trade anyway . I would have . If Im paying somebody , im going with the upgrade . IT very well may have had to,have chose to leave on his own to get the big pay day from another team. ,like AB . Im not sure Danny was going to offer enough to for IT to stay . DA not hesitating to trade and offer big assets kinda points to DA s real thoughts on retaining Thomas in any scenario . A trade might have been waiting in IT s future no matter what.
He might have, but I think it would have been a mistake. Under those circumstances, I think upgrading via another star is the way to go.
I still wish we could have done the Paul George trade. We'd be looking at a core of:
Horford
Tatum
Hayward
George / Brown
IT
Plus we'd have both the BRK and LAL picks. I think that's the team that could have brought down Golden State in a year or two.
what was the trade proposal that would have landed us Paul George where we still had all of Tatum, Brown, Brooklyn and Laker picks? I don't recall seeing a deal where at least one of them wasn't included as a piece. (not that I would give up any of them in a 1-year rental)
-
Maybe Thomas shouldn't have been so vocal about wanting a max and having the brinks truck show up. Pretty good way to drive yourself out of town
Danny will trade anybody, regardless of whether they're vocal or quiet, a team leader or a cancer, a veteran or a rookie. Avery Bradley never talked about his contract, and he was traded without any hesitation.
Sure, but Thomas made it a lot easier by making it known he only wanted a max contract and expected to be paid or he would walk.
I don't recall the "or he would walk" part, although maybe that was implied. I just think IT's statements were completely irrelevant, except perhaps as PR.
I agree with this. IT just made back-to-back all star games and was top 5 in MVP voting. Regardless of what he said publicly about his contract, any reasonable person would have to think he wanted max money. Why wouldn't he?
-
Im still not convinced even with IT fully heathy Danny doesn't blink and do the trade anyway . I would have . If Im paying somebody , im going with the upgrade . IT very well may have had to,have chose to leave on his own to get the big pay day from another team. ,like AB . Im not sure Danny was going to offer enough to for IT to stay . DA not hesitating to trade and offer big assets kinda points to DA s real thoughts on retaining Thomas in any scenario . A trade might have been waiting in IT s future no matter what.
He might have, but I think it would have been a mistake. Under those circumstances, I think upgrading via another star is the way to go.
I still wish we could have done the Paul George trade. We'd be looking at a core of:
Horford
Tatum
Hayward
George / Brown
IT
Plus we'd have both the BRK and LAL picks. I think that's the team that could have brought down Golden State in a year or two.
what was the trade proposal that would have landed us Paul George where we still had all of Tatum, Brown, Brooklyn and Laker picks? I don't recall seeing a deal where at least one of them wasn't included as a piece. (not that I would give up any of them in a 1-year rental)
The rumor was Smart + Crowder + multiple non-BRK/LAL picks going to Indy. Danny wouldn't give a firm commitment until we acquired Hayward however. We probably would have had to send out AB to a third team for salary matching purposes.
-
Im still not convinced even with IT fully heathy Danny doesn't blink and do the trade anyway . I would have . If Im paying somebody , im going with the upgrade . IT very well may have had to,have chose to leave on his own to get the big pay day from another team. ,like AB . Im not sure Danny was going to offer enough to for IT to stay . DA not hesitating to trade and offer big assets kinda points to DA s real thoughts on retaining Thomas in any scenario . A trade might have been waiting in IT s future no matter what.
I'm firmly convinced Danny was never going to pay IT, because I was convinced of that before they moved him (though I did think Fultz was gonna be our escape hatch). Tying up at minimum $25-30 million per year in an undersized, high contact PG reliant on athleticism as he heads into his 30s is just not a Danny move. The hip injury pretty much sealed the deal, then Kyrie's availability made for the obvious out.
As for IT being bitter, I don't blame him one bit - I'd be suspicious if he wasn't p---ed, at least privately. He gave us everything, loved the city and team, sacrificed his body and played through incredible loss, and expected us to pay him like a star. He has every right to be upset, but Danny still has every obligation to make the moves he thinks are best for the team.
-
If we put up a banner this year or next no one will care about any of this in Boston.
-
When we talk about loyalty in sports, about dudes getting it back from the team they gave it all for, we're talking about a very short list. Dirk, Reggie Miller, Kobe, Pierce... and obviously several others from earlier... those guys can rightfully say, "Alright, I gave my all. Now I deserve one last rodeo, a fat contract, or a trade to a contender," ... as the case may be. It's also why I kinda get D-Wade for telling Miami, "Hey, you balked at paying me - Eff you, I'm out."
Isaiah is NOT a part of that list. I'm sorry. In the NBA, you need to A. Bring home a ring or B. Spend your entire career or [dang] near it for the team to consider putting you ahead of it's future.
Ainge, for what it's worth, long complained that Red should've traded Larry/McHale/Parish when they still had value. He backed up that statement when he traded Pierce and KG.
There was NEVER a CHANCE Danny was going to give IT a max offer - or even a contract offer that lasted more than a couple years. IT was great for one year, very good for another, and did a superb job for what he's dealt with. But we can't all be the greatest.
-
This gets me: 5th in MVP voting is not an accolade. It just means the league office put him on the ballot, and that he then garnered the fewest MVP votes of the 5 candidates. Since he's the only star on a winning and fairly large market team (top 5?), no surprise.
On IT, he might not even be in the league in 5 years, maybe less.
-
This gets me: 5th in MVP voting is not an accolade. It just means the league office put him on the ballot, and that he then garnered the fewest MVP votes of the 5 candidates. Since he's the only star on a winning and fairly large market team (top 5?), no surprise.
That's...not how MVP voting works.
-
I'm obviously in IT's corner here. The trade probably makes us better long-term, but doesn't change that fact. Imo, this comment reflects the chip on IT's shoulder that has made him a great player. Wish the very best for him, hope to see him play in the Finals.
I really hope you meant ECF
-
Did he write about that part where Danny took him as an unwanted 3rd child from the Suns and put him in the position to be the 1st violin in the orchestra, after which he became an Allstar and an all NBA performer?
When Danny traded for Isaiah, he was forced to come off the bench. Thomas earned 1st violin by playing better than any of the other violinists.
-
This gets me: 5th in MVP voting is not an accolade. It just means the league office put him on the ballot, and that he then garnered the fewest MVP votes of the 5 candidates. Since he's the only star on a winning and fairly large market team (top 5?), no surprise.
That's...not how MVP voting works.
Well I sit corrected.
The point is valid, however. Yes, 5th, but a very, very distant 5th. To say he was 5th in voting suggests he's on the level of legit candidates to win the thing, which turns out wasn't the case. Zero first or second place votes, meaning nobody (out of just over 100) thought he was MVP, or runner up, and a mere handful of 3rd place votes. It's not like he was edged out in a close contest. Less than half of the voters gave him any votes at all. He just isn't in the MVP league.
-
Thomas went to play with the Team that went to the finals last year and LeBron James and he's complaining. Look where some players end up when they get traded. Danny traded him to a very favorable situation and if LeBron leaves next year The Cavs will back up Thomas' Brinks' truck for him. If LeBron stays they will probably back up the truck as well. Thomas has a better chance at a max contract now and a very good chance at the NBA finals in a contract year. I know Isaiah feels burnt but he's in a very good situation and Danny traded him into that.
-
I would have liked to see IT leave out the Ainge comments but I have no issues with the majority of what he said. I can also empathize with his general feelings toward Ainge. To be honest I am grateful that he actually cares this much about his time in Boston. He was truly invested in the city well beyond the basketball court. Danny made the right move but I will always cherish the few years we had with IT.
-
Thomas went to play with the Team that went to the finals last year and LeBron James and he's complaining. Look where some players end up when they get traded. Danny traded him to a very favorable situation and if LeBron leaves next year The Cavs will back up Thomas' Brinks' truck for him. If LeBron stays they will probably back up the truck as well. Thomas has a better chance at a max contract now and a very good chance at the NBA finals in a contract year. I know Isaiah feels burnt but he's in a very good situation and Danny traded him into that.
Maybe because to these players it's about more than that? Kyrie just played on a team that went to the Finals with Lebron James and wanted out. Kyrie apparently has placed his desire to lead a team to the Finals above just getting there. Maybe Thomas felt the same way, thought he had that path in front of him, and then saw it snatched away?
It's clear from his comments that Thomas recognizes the competitive advantages he'll get from being on Lebron's team. That doesn't mean he shouldn't be upset about the sudden change in his life. These guys are humans, not robots. He'd established a lot of connections to Boston. Got married and set up a home for his family. Suddenly, on short notice, he had to move his family. If you were suddenly traded to some other company a few states away, despite whatever benefits you might accrue from that, you might find that to be a little upsetting in some respects.
-
This gets me: 5th in MVP voting is not an accolade. It just means the league office put him on the ballot, and that he then garnered the fewest MVP votes of the 5 candidates. Since he's the only star on a winning and fairly large market team (top 5?), no surprise.
That's...not how MVP voting works.
Well I sit corrected.
The point is valid, however. Yes, 5th, but a very, very distant 5th. To say he was 5th in voting suggests he's on the level of legit candidates to win the thing, which turns out wasn't the case. Zero first or second place votes, meaning nobody (out of just over 100) thought he was MVP, or runner up, and a mere handful of 3rd place votes. It's not like he was edged out in a close contest. Less than half of the voters gave him any votes at all. He just isn't in the MVP league.
TP - hope it didn't come off too snarky.
And I agree, he had a great year but was far behind the leaders. Of course, 5th place usually is. I've always loved the "he's a Top-X MVP candidate/player/scorer/whatever" framing where X is the place he's actually in. IT was technically a top 5 MVP votegetter, but more accurately was 5th place.
-
Thomas went to play with the Team that went to the finals last year and LeBron James and he's complaining. Look where some players end up when they get traded. Danny traded him to a very favorable situation and if LeBron leaves next year The Cavs will back up Thomas' Brinks' truck for him. If LeBron stays they will probably back up the truck as well. Thomas has a better chance at a max contract now and a very good chance at the NBA finals in a contract year. I know Isaiah feels burnt but he's in a very good situation and Danny traded him into that.
Maybe because to these players it's about more than that? Kyrie just played on a team that went to the Finals with Lebron James and wanted out. Kyrie apparently has placed his desire to lead a team to the Finals above just getting there. Maybe Thomas felt the same way, thought he had that path in front of him, and then saw it snatched away?
It's clear from his comments that Thomas recognizes the competitive advantages he'll get from being on Lebron's team. That doesn't mean he shouldn't be upset about the sudden change in his life. These guys are humans, not robots. He'd established a lot of connections to Boston. Got married and set up a home for his family. Suddenly, on short notice, he had to move his family. If you were suddenly traded to some other company a few states away, despite whatever benefits you might accrue from that, you might find that to be a little upsetting in some respects.
You're right of course. I'm sad to see that old lovable team go. Danny has to act in unemotional why and do what is right for The Team. It is very sad to see IT go. It was a heart break to see PP and KG go. But Danny has been making the hard choices.
-
I hear a lot of players saying things like "how'd they do you like dat" etc. However, if they were the GM, would they make that trade? I'm betting every player with a sound mind says yes.
Danny did his job. So did IT.
Grudges are stupid.
Let it go IT. Still love ya.
-
The little guy needs to move on and stop rehashing all this. This isn't a good look for him at all. I like IT as a player but he needs to stop acting like he was some untouchable celtic great with mutiple rings. You were the top dog on a cute little team that no one outside of Boston took seriously. Its a business at the end of the day.
-
Im still not convinced even with IT fully heathy Danny doesn't blink and do the trade anyway . I would have . If Im paying somebody , im going with the upgrade . IT very well may have had to,have chose to leave on his own to get the big pay day from another team. ,like AB . Im not sure Danny was going to offer enough to for IT to stay . DA not hesitating to trade and offer big assets kinda points to DA s real thoughts on retaining Thomas in any scenario . A trade might have been waiting in IT s future no matter what.
He might have, but I think it would have been a mistake. Under those circumstances, I think upgrading via another star is the way to go.
I still wish we could have done the Paul George trade. We'd be looking at a core of:
Horford
Tatum
Hayward
George / Brown
IT
Plus we'd have both the BRK and LAL picks. I think that's the team that could have brought down Golden State in a year or two.
what was the trade proposal that would have landed us Paul George where we still had all of Tatum, Brown, Brooklyn and Laker picks? I don't recall seeing a deal where at least one of them wasn't included as a piece. (not that I would give up any of them in a 1-year rental)
The rumor was Smart + Crowder + multiple non-BRK/LAL picks going to Indy. Danny wouldn't give a firm commitment until we acquired Hayward however. We probably would have had to send out AB to a third team for salary matching purposes.
I'm not giving all that up for a 1 year rental of George, after he openly expressed his desire o sign with LA.
We essentially got Hayward, Morris, Baynes and Kyrie for Bradley, Crowder, Zizic and the 2018 Brooklyn 1st. I'll take that every day over the proposed George rental trade. I like George more than either Hayward or Kyrie, but its too much to give up for one ear of George.
-
This gets me: 5th in MVP voting is not an accolade. It just means the league office put him on the ballot, and that he then garnered the fewest MVP votes of the 5 candidates. Since he's the only star on a winning and fairly large market team (top 5?), no surprise.
That's...not how MVP voting works.
Well I sit corrected.
The point is valid, however. Yes, 5th, but a very, very distant 5th. To say he was 5th in voting suggests he's on the level of legit candidates to win the thing, which turns out wasn't the case. Zero first or second place votes, meaning nobody (out of just over 100) thought he was MVP, or runner up, and a mere handful of 3rd place votes. It's not like he was edged out in a close contest. Less than half of the voters gave him any votes at all. He just isn't in the MVP league.
TP - hope it didn't come off too snarky.
And I agree, he had a great year but was far behind the leaders. Of course, 5th place usually is. I've always loved the "he's a Top-X MVP candidate/player/scorer/whatever" framing where X is the place he's actually in. IT was technically a top 5 MVP votegetter, but more accurately was 5th place.
This is simple - Boston finished with the top seed in the East, and Isaiah was their lone All-Star.
Best player on best team generally puts you in the MVP discussion by default - see Derrick Rose when he got his MVP award in a season where he (IMHO) others were more deserving.
MVP award is a popularity contest, that's all it is the majority of the time. Rarely does it have anything to do with actually gauging a player's value to his team because if it did, then honestly Kawhi or Lebron would have won the award the list 2-3 years Take Lebron off the Cavs and they might not even make he playoffs. Take Kawhi off the Spurs and they'd struggle too.
To be fair, Isaiah was probably on of the few guys recently so actually had a legitimate argument for MVP. He won Boston a lot of games with his 4th quarter heroics, and his leadership and play was IMHO the biggest reason why Boston finished with the 1st seed and made the ECF. If we didn't have Thomas, we probably would have finished in the 4-6 range at best and probably don't get past the second round.
BUT I doubt the story would have been very different if we had Kyrie instead. They are two very similar players, and Kyrie is known for his elite scoring ability as well as his ability to close out games, just like Isaiah is. If the two players switched teams last year, it's likely Kyrie would be on the top 5 MVP list instead of Isaiah. But being the 2nd best player in a team that is as deep as Cleveland makes it hard to crack the MVP top 10, that's just the way it is.
-
We essentially got Hayward, Morris, Baynes and Kyrie for Bradley, Crowder, Zizic and the 2018 Brooklyn 1st. I'll take that every day over the proposed George rental trade. I like George more than either Hayward or Kyrie, but its too much to give up for one ear of George.
Hayward and Baynes were free agents. We didn't get them as a result of any trades, "essentially" or otherwise.
So, it's Kyrie + Morris + Smart + non-lotto picks on one side, or IT + George + BRK pick + whatever we get for AB on the other.
-
We essentially got Hayward, Morris, Baynes and Kyrie for Bradley, Crowder, Zizic and the 2018 Brooklyn 1st. I'll take that every day over the proposed George rental trade. I like George more than either Hayward or Kyrie, but its too much to give up for one ear of George.
Hayward and Baynes were free agents. We didn't get them as a result of any trades, "essentially" or otherwise.
So, it's Kyrie + Morris + Smart + non-lotto picks on one side, or IT + George + BRK pick + whatever we get for AB on the other.
Needed to clear cap space to land Hayward.
-
We essentially got Hayward, Morris, Baynes and Kyrie for Bradley, Crowder, Zizic and the 2018 Brooklyn 1st. I'll take that every day over the proposed George rental trade. I like George more than either Hayward or Kyrie, but its too much to give up for one ear of George.
Hayward and Baynes were free agents. We didn't get them as a result of any trades, "essentially" or otherwise.
So, it's Kyrie + Morris + Smart + non-lotto picks on one side, or IT + George + BRK pick + whatever we get for AB on the other.
Paul George is making $19.5M
Smart and Crowder add up to $11.3M. As you said, we also would have had to move Avery Bradley to a third team willing to take on his $8.8M. That would have put our total outgoing salary at $20.4M - allowing us to take Paul George back while saving about $900k
Problem. Is that saving enough to create the space we WOULD have needed to sign Hayward?
Lets say it isn't. We no longer have Avery Bradley, which mean means the Detroit trade doesn't happen. We also no longer have Smart or Crowder, so who do we have who would be of any interest to other teams, who we could potentially trade out to clear the cap space to sign Hayward? Probably nobody, so there's an option that the signing doesn't happen and we lose out on Hayward. Then we also don't have Crowder, which means the Kyrie trade never happens. So instead of having Kyrie for 2 years and Hayward for 4-5 years, we'd have Paul George for a one year rental, and Isaiah (on an expiring contract) potentially sitting on the IR list until January.
Now we can't start Smart because he went out in the George trade, we can't start Isaiah because he's out for half the season, we can't start Bradley or Crowder as they are both gone. So what do we do at PG? Do we start Rozier and leave ourselves with no backup PG? That's pretty weak. Do we start Paul George at PG, then Brown and Tatum and SG and SF, putting our faith in two 19/20 year olds to carry our starting 5?
Also who do we start at PF, since we would not have done the Detroit trade, so we would not have Morris on the roster. Would we start Theis at PF, having Brown/Tatum/Theis making up 60% of our starting 5? Or do we start Baynes at centre, Horford at PF = and have Theis as our only big off the bench? Who would come off the bench at PG/SG/SF then?
The answers to all of these questions are messy.
Now less say will give ALL this up and sacrifice the season to get George, and at the end of the season he walks. Now IT wants his $30M, so you have to give him that or else he walks - so you now have about $60m (two thirds of the cap) tied up in a 29 year old 5'10" PG coming off a hip injury, and a 32 year old underized declining big who can't create his own offense. There Given we'd have another $10m or so invested in Brown and Tatum, we would not have enough cap space left to chase another max free agent that next year, so where are we left?
Because that roster now makes us a weak 7-8 seed at best, so all of our hope would hinge on that 2018 Brooklyn pick, which (given the current state of the east) could easily fall outside of the top 5.
As opposed to now - we have a 25 year old top-5 PG locked in for two years at a pretty bargain salary, and if he signs an extension (which has a high probability, as he seems to love it here) we have that locked in for the next 5-6 years. Plus a 27 year old Gordon Hayward locked in for the next 4 years. Plus a solid Al Horford locked in for the nex2-3 years. Plus Brown and Tatum. Those 5 guys alone give us a strong core to allow sustained deep playoff runs in the east for the next 4 years.
So, unless we are in a magical fairy world where all unexpected things go well and George freakishly decides to stay here, and IT agrees to sign for less (or recovers perfect and goes back to scoring 30 a game) - I don't see how trading for Paul George would have put us in a better spot.
-
We essentially got Hayward, Morris, Baynes and Kyrie for Bradley, Crowder, Zizic and the 2018 Brooklyn 1st. I'll take that every day over the proposed George rental trade. I like George more than either Hayward or Kyrie, but its too much to give up for one ear of George.
Hayward and Baynes were free agents. We didn't get them as a result of any trades, "essentially" or otherwise.
So, it's Kyrie + Morris + Smart + non-lotto picks on one side, or IT + George + BRK pick + whatever we get for AB on the other.
Paul George is making $19.5M
Smart and Crowder add up to $11.3M. As you said, we also would have had to move Avery Bradley to a third team willing to take on his $8.8M. That would have put our total outgoing salary at $20.4M - allowing us to take Paul George back while saving about $900k
Problem. Is that saving enough to create the space we WOULD have needed to sign Hayward?
Lets say it isn't. We no longer have Avery Bradley, which mean means the Detroit trade doesn't happen. We also no longer have Smart or Crowder, so who do we have who would be of any interest to other teams, who we could potentially trade out to clear the cap space to sign Hayward? Probably nobody, so there's an option that the signing doesn't happen and we lose out on Hayward. Then we also don't have Crowder, which means the Kyrie trade never happens. So instead of having Kyrie for 2 years and Hayward for 4-5 years, we'd have Paul George for a one year rental, and Isaiah (on an expiring contract) potentially sitting on the IR list until January.
Now we can't start Smart because he went out in the George trade, we can't start Isaiah because he's out for half the season, we can't start Bradley or Crowder as they are both gone. So what do we do at PG? Do we start Rozier and leave ourselves with no backup PG? That's pretty weak. Do we start Paul George at PG, then Brown and Tatum and SG and SF, putting our faith in two 19/20 year olds to carry our starting 5?
Also who do we start at PF, since we would not have done the Detroit trade, so we would not have Morris on the roster. Would we start Theis at PF, having Brown/Tatum/Theis making up 60% of our starting 5? Or do we start Baynes at centre, Horford at PF = and have Theis as our only big off the bench? Who would come off the bench at PG/SG/SF then?
The answers to all of these questions are messy.
Now less say will give ALL this up and sacrifice the season to get George, and at the end of the season he walks. Now IT wants his $30M, so you have to give him that or else he walks - so you now have about $60m (two thirds of the cap) tied up in a 29 year old 5'10" PG coming off a hip injury, and a 32 year old underized declining big who can't create his own offense. There Given we'd have another $10m or so invested in Brown and Tatum, we would not have enough cap space left to chase another max free agent that next year, so where are we left?
Because that roster now makes us a weak 7-8 seed at best, so all of our hope would hinge on that 2018 Brooklyn pick, which (given the current state of the east) could easily fall outside of the top 5.
As opposed to now - we have a 25 year old top-5 PG locked in for two years at a pretty bargain salary, and if he signs an extension (which has a high probability, as he seems to love it here) we have that locked in for the next 5-6 years. Plus a 27 year old Gordon Hayward locked in for the next 4 years. Plus a solid Al Horford locked in for the nex2-3 years. Plus Brown and Tatum. Those 5 guys alone give us a strong core to allow sustained deep playoff runs in the east for the next 4 years.
So, unless we are in a magical fairy world where all unexpected things go well and George freakishly decides to stay here, and IT agrees to sign for less (or recovers perfect and goes back to scoring 30 a game) - I don't see how trading for Paul George would have put us in a better spot.
You "don't see it" because you're purposefully leaving Hayward out of the equation.
IT + Hayward + PG13 + Horford + Tatum + Brown + BRK pick + LAL pick is better than we have now.
-
We essentially got Hayward, Morris, Baynes and Kyrie for Bradley, Crowder, Zizic and the 2018 Brooklyn 1st. I'll take that every day over the proposed George rental trade. I like George more than either Hayward or Kyrie, but its too much to give up for one ear of George.
Hayward and Baynes were free agents. We didn't get them as a result of any trades, "essentially" or otherwise.
So, it's Kyrie + Morris + Smart + non-lotto picks on one side, or IT + George + BRK pick + whatever we get for AB on the other.
Paul George is making $19.5M
Smart and Crowder add up to $11.3M. As you said, we also would have had to move Avery Bradley to a third team willing to take on his $8.8M. That would have put our total outgoing salary at $20.4M - allowing us to take Paul George back while saving about $900k
Problem. Is that saving enough to create the space we WOULD have needed to sign Hayward?
Lets say it isn't. We no longer have Avery Bradley, which mean means the Detroit trade doesn't happen. We also no longer have Smart or Crowder, so who do we have who would be of any interest to other teams, who we could potentially trade out to clear the cap space to sign Hayward? Probably nobody, so there's an option that the signing doesn't happen and we lose out on Hayward. Then we also don't have Crowder, which means the Kyrie trade never happens. So instead of having Kyrie for 2 years and Hayward for 4-5 years, we'd have Paul George for a one year rental, and Isaiah (on an expiring contract) potentially sitting on the IR list until January.
Now we can't start Smart because he went out in the George trade, we can't start Isaiah because he's out for half the season, we can't start Bradley or Crowder as they are both gone. So what do we do at PG? Do we start Rozier and leave ourselves with no backup PG? That's pretty weak. Do we start Paul George at PG, then Brown and Tatum and SG and SF, putting our faith in two 19/20 year olds to carry our starting 5?
Also who do we start at PF, since we would not have done the Detroit trade, so we would not have Morris on the roster. Would we start Theis at PF, having Brown/Tatum/Theis making up 60% of our starting 5? Or do we start Baynes at centre, Horford at PF = and have Theis as our only big off the bench? Who would come off the bench at PG/SG/SF then?
The answers to all of these questions are messy.
Now less say will give ALL this up and sacrifice the season to get George, and at the end of the season he walks. Now IT wants his $30M, so you have to give him that or else he walks - so you now have about $60m (two thirds of the cap) tied up in a 29 year old 5'10" PG coming off a hip injury, and a 32 year old underized declining big who can't create his own offense. There Given we'd have another $10m or so invested in Brown and Tatum, we would not have enough cap space left to chase another max free agent that next year, so where are we left?
Because that roster now makes us a weak 7-8 seed at best, so all of our hope would hinge on that 2018 Brooklyn pick, which (given the current state of the east) could easily fall outside of the top 5.
As opposed to now - we have a 25 year old top-5 PG locked in for two years at a pretty bargain salary, and if he signs an extension (which has a high probability, as he seems to love it here) we have that locked in for the next 5-6 years. Plus a 27 year old Gordon Hayward locked in for the next 4 years. Plus a solid Al Horford locked in for the nex2-3 years. Plus Brown and Tatum. Those 5 guys alone give us a strong core to allow sustained deep playoff runs in the east for the next 4 years.
So, unless we are in a magical fairy world where all unexpected things go well and George freakishly decides to stay here, and IT agrees to sign for less (or recovers perfect and goes back to scoring 30 a game) - I don't see how trading for Paul George would have put us in a better spot.
You "don't see it" because you're purposefully leaving Hayward out of the equation.
IT + Hayward + PG13 + Horford + Tatum + Brown + BRK pick + LAL pick is better than we have now.
The Pacers got the deal done before we even got Hayward.
-
We essentially got Hayward, Morris, Baynes and Kyrie for Bradley, Crowder, Zizic and the 2018 Brooklyn 1st. I'll take that every day over the proposed George rental trade. I like George more than either Hayward or Kyrie, but its too much to give up for one ear of George.
Hayward and Baynes were free agents. We didn't get them as a result of any trades, "essentially" or otherwise.
So, it's Kyrie + Morris + Smart + non-lotto picks on one side, or IT + George + BRK pick + whatever we get for AB on the other.
Paul George is making $19.5M
Smart and Crowder add up to $11.3M. As you said, we also would have had to move Avery Bradley to a third team willing to take on his $8.8M. That would have put our total outgoing salary at $20.4M - allowing us to take Paul George back while saving about $900k
Problem. Is that saving enough to create the space we WOULD have needed to sign Hayward?
Lets say it isn't. We no longer have Avery Bradley, which mean means the Detroit trade doesn't happen. We also no longer have Smart or Crowder, so who do we have who would be of any interest to other teams, who we could potentially trade out to clear the cap space to sign Hayward? Probably nobody, so there's an option that the signing doesn't happen and we lose out on Hayward. Then we also don't have Crowder, which means the Kyrie trade never happens. So instead of having Kyrie for 2 years and Hayward for 4-5 years, we'd have Paul George for a one year rental, and Isaiah (on an expiring contract) potentially sitting on the IR list until January.
Now we can't start Smart because he went out in the George trade, we can't start Isaiah because he's out for half the season, we can't start Bradley or Crowder as they are both gone. So what do we do at PG? Do we start Rozier and leave ourselves with no backup PG? That's pretty weak. Do we start Paul George at PG, then Brown and Tatum and SG and SF, putting our faith in two 19/20 year olds to carry our starting 5?
Also who do we start at PF, since we would not have done the Detroit trade, so we would not have Morris on the roster. Would we start Theis at PF, having Brown/Tatum/Theis making up 60% of our starting 5? Or do we start Baynes at centre, Horford at PF = and have Theis as our only big off the bench? Who would come off the bench at PG/SG/SF then?
The answers to all of these questions are messy.
Now less say will give ALL this up and sacrifice the season to get George, and at the end of the season he walks. Now IT wants his $30M, so you have to give him that or else he walks - so you now have about $60m (two thirds of the cap) tied up in a 29 year old 5'10" PG coming off a hip injury, and a 32 year old underized declining big who can't create his own offense. There Given we'd have another $10m or so invested in Brown and Tatum, we would not have enough cap space left to chase another max free agent that next year, so where are we left?
Because that roster now makes us a weak 7-8 seed at best, so all of our hope would hinge on that 2018 Brooklyn pick, which (given the current state of the east) could easily fall outside of the top 5.
As opposed to now - we have a 25 year old top-5 PG locked in for two years at a pretty bargain salary, and if he signs an extension (which has a high probability, as he seems to love it here) we have that locked in for the next 5-6 years. Plus a 27 year old Gordon Hayward locked in for the next 4 years. Plus a solid Al Horford locked in for the nex2-3 years. Plus Brown and Tatum. Those 5 guys alone give us a strong core to allow sustained deep playoff runs in the east for the next 4 years.
So, unless we are in a magical fairy world where all unexpected things go well and George freakishly decides to stay here, and IT agrees to sign for less (or recovers perfect and goes back to scoring 30 a game) - I don't see how trading for Paul George would have put us in a better spot.
You "don't see it" because you're purposefully leaving Hayward out of the equation.
IT + Hayward + PG13 + Horford + Tatum + Brown + BRK pick + LAL pick is better than we have now.
The Pacers got the deal done before we even got Hayward.
Hayward actually agreed before the Pacers deal was made official. Indy was willing to wait on the trade. They weren't willing to wait on a commitment from Danny. They wanted a firm yes, and Danny would only give a maybe.
-
Hayward actually agreed before the Pacers deal was made official. Indy was willing to wait on the trade. They weren't willing to wait on a commitment from Danny. They wanted a firm yes, and Danny would only give a maybe.
Not trying to jump in an argument here, but I thought George was traded on 6/30, while Hayward definitely agreed to sign with the Cs on 7/4. Are you saying that Indy could have pulled out of the deal they already agreed to?
I don't disagree with you that there was likely someway, somehow we could have made outgoing salaries work in a George deal and also sign Hayward, but it would have been pretty destructive to our team. Also, having IT injured on an expiring deal and George who seemed lukewarm about going anywhere but LA on an expiring deal could have really blown up in our faces.
-
Hayward actually agreed before the Pacers deal was made official. Indy was willing to wait on the trade. They weren't willing to wait on a commitment from Danny. They wanted a firm yes, and Danny would only give a maybe.
Not trying to jump in an argument here, but I thought George was traded on 6/30, while Hayward definitely agreed to sign with the Cs on 7/4. Are you saying that Indy could have pulled out of the deal they already agreed to?
I don't disagree with you that there was likely someway, somehow we could have made outgoing salaries work in a George deal and also sign Hayward, but it would have been pretty destructive to our team. Also, having IT injured on an expiring deal and George who seemed lukewarm about going anywhere but LA on an expiring deal could have really blown up in our faces.
I thought that Indy was just impatient. The Haywards signing was some days after the trade. They wanted to get the deal done soon and to send PG13 westward. Kyrie's case may motivate other GMS in the future to remain calm, especially when you are dealing the most talented player in franchise history, as is the case with PG.
-
From this point of view, we don't like how IT4 reacts now, but on the other hand we love players when they try to get close to the city, fans, team and all that. That's what he just did, whatever the reason was. So, let him grieve, time will pass, wounds will be healed for him and we'll have manny other nice things to discuss and forget all about IT-saga. After all, it was only his 2 and a half seasons in green. What is that comparing to KG's 6, or Pierce's 15??!!
-
From this point of view, we don't like how IT4 reacts now, but on the other hand we love players when they try to get close to the city, fans, team and all that. That's what he just did, whatever the reason was. So, let him grieve, time will pass, wounds will be healed for him and we'll have manny other nice things to discuss and forget all about IT-saga. After all, it was only his 2 and a half seasons in green. What is that comparing to KG's 6, or Pierce's 15??!!
I was totally with you until you implied that 2.5 seasons (and a ECF appearance) is not memorable enough.
-
Hayward actually agreed before the Pacers deal was made official. Indy was willing to wait on the trade. They weren't willing to wait on a commitment from Danny. They wanted a firm yes, and Danny would only give a maybe.
Not trying to jump in an argument here, but I thought George was traded on 6/30, while Hayward definitely agreed to sign with the Cs on 7/4. Are you saying that Indy could have pulled out of the deal they already agreed to?
I don't disagree with you that there was likely someway, somehow we could have made outgoing salaries work in a George deal and also sign Hayward, but it would have been pretty destructive to our team. Also, having IT injured on an expiring deal and George who seemed lukewarm about going anywhere but LA on an expiring deal could have really blown up in our faces.
The trade wasn't finalized until after the moratorium ended. All Danny had to say was, we have a deal no matter what happens in free agency, but just let me use my cap space first. Danny however said let me see what happens in free agency and then we can work something out. Danny just wouldn't give a commitment that the trade would happen no matter what, which is all Indiana wanted.
-
Hayward actually agreed before the Pacers deal was made official. Indy was willing to wait on the trade. They weren't willing to wait on a commitment from Danny. They wanted a firm yes, and Danny would only give a maybe.
Not trying to jump in an argument here, but I thought George was traded on 6/30, while Hayward definitely agreed to sign with the Cs on 7/4. Are you saying that Indy could have pulled out of the deal they already agreed to?
I don't disagree with you that there was likely someway, somehow we could have made outgoing salaries work in a George deal and also sign Hayward, but it would have been pretty destructive to our team. Also, having IT injured on an expiring deal and George who seemed lukewarm about going anywhere but LA on an expiring deal could have really blown up in our faces.
The trade wasn't finalized until after the moratorium ended. All Danny had to say was, we have a deal no matter what happens in free agency, but just let me use my cap space first. Danny however said let me see what happens in free agency and then we can work something out. Danny just wouldn't give a commitment that the trade would happen no matter what, which is all Indiana wanted.
I don't think any of us will ever know exactly what went down with the trade negotiations. Indy hopped on sub-par pretty quickly. I understand that the deal wasn't 'finalized' until after Hayward agreed to sign with us, but it was announced into 4 days prior. For some reason, Indy felt like they needed to take the deal with OKC in the moment rather than telling them to wait four days.
In the end, I still don't regret the deal - Crowder, AB, Smart, and likely Rozier (along with picks) would have been required to get the deal done - unless you wanted to deal Tatum or Brown instead of Smart/Rozier. I am satisfied not having two questionable expiring contracts on the horizon while keeping Rozier, Smart, acquiring Morris, and solidifying our PG for the future with Kyrie.
And this is all assuming that DA wanted both Hayward and George, which I am certainly not confident in. Frankly, I think DA makes the same deal he made with Cleveland if IT was healthy - minus the 2nd rounder (people assuming we never would have to include the BKN pick just aren't thinking the deal through - that was by far the most important piece).
-
Hayward actually agreed before the Pacers deal was made official. Indy was willing to wait on the trade. They weren't willing to wait on a commitment from Danny. They wanted a firm yes, and Danny would only give a maybe.
Not trying to jump in an argument here, but I thought George was traded on 6/30, while Hayward definitely agreed to sign with the Cs on 7/4. Are you saying that Indy could have pulled out of the deal they already agreed to?
I don't disagree with you that there was likely someway, somehow we could have made outgoing salaries work in a George deal and also sign Hayward, but it would have been pretty destructive to our team. Also, having IT injured on an expiring deal and George who seemed lukewarm about going anywhere but LA on an expiring deal could have really blown up in our faces.
The trade wasn't finalized until after the moratorium ended. All Danny had to say was, we have a deal no matter what happens in free agency, but just let me use my cap space first. Danny however said let me see what happens in free agency and then we can work something out. Danny just wouldn't give a commitment that the trade would happen no matter what, which is all Indiana wanted.
So what was Indy's excuse for not taking any of the other better trades that would have been out there though? I just don't buy the narrative that all Indy needed was a hug and a promise. I think there was more spite involved than anyone would admit.
They didn't want to send Paul George somewhere he specifically wanted to go (this was actually reported), and they wanted to send him to a place they thought he had a good chance of leaving at the end of the year.
-
Not sure they were going to commit to long term salaries of Horford, Thomas, George, and Hayward. Pretty sure that tax bill was going to be untenable.
-
Hayward actually agreed before the Pacers deal was made official. Indy was willing to wait on the trade. They weren't willing to wait on a commitment from Danny. They wanted a firm yes, and Danny would only give a maybe.
Not trying to jump in an argument here, but I thought George was traded on 6/30, while Hayward definitely agreed to sign with the Cs on 7/4. Are you saying that Indy could have pulled out of the deal they already agreed to?
I don't disagree with you that there was likely someway, somehow we could have made outgoing salaries work in a George deal and also sign Hayward, but it would have been pretty destructive to our team. Also, having IT injured on an expiring deal and George who seemed lukewarm about going anywhere but LA on an expiring deal could have really blown up in our faces.
The trade wasn't finalized until after the moratorium ended. All Danny had to say was, we have a deal no matter what happens in free agency, but just let me use my cap space first. Danny however said let me see what happens in free agency and then we can work something out. Danny just wouldn't give a commitment that the trade would happen no matter what, which is all Indiana wanted.
Is this factual? Is there any evidence that this is what happened or is this just the thing that people have come to believe probably happened?
-
Hayward actually agreed before the Pacers deal was made official. Indy was willing to wait on the trade. They weren't willing to wait on a commitment from Danny. They wanted a firm yes, and Danny would only give a maybe.
Not trying to jump in an argument here, but I thought George was traded on 6/30, while Hayward definitely agreed to sign with the Cs on 7/4. Are you saying that Indy could have pulled out of the deal they already agreed to?
I don't disagree with you that there was likely someway, somehow we could have made outgoing salaries work in a George deal and also sign Hayward, but it would have been pretty destructive to our team. Also, having IT injured on an expiring deal and George who seemed lukewarm about going anywhere but LA on an expiring deal could have really blown up in our faces.
The trade wasn't finalized until after the moratorium ended. All Danny had to say was, we have a deal no matter what happens in free agency, but just let me use my cap space first. Danny however said let me see what happens in free agency and then we can work something out. Danny just wouldn't give a commitment that the trade would happen no matter what, which is all Indiana wanted.
Is this factual? Is there any evidence that this is what happened or is this just the thing that people have come to believe probably happened?
There were a number of articles on it where that was certainly implied if not outright stated.
-
Hayward actually agreed before the Pacers deal was made official. Indy was willing to wait on the trade. They weren't willing to wait on a commitment from Danny. They wanted a firm yes, and Danny would only give a maybe.
Not trying to jump in an argument here, but I thought George was traded on 6/30, while Hayward definitely agreed to sign with the Cs on 7/4. Are you saying that Indy could have pulled out of the deal they already agreed to?
I don't disagree with you that there was likely someway, somehow we could have made outgoing salaries work in a George deal and also sign Hayward, but it would have been pretty destructive to our team. Also, having IT injured on an expiring deal and George who seemed lukewarm about going anywhere but LA on an expiring deal could have really blown up in our faces.
The trade wasn't finalized until after the moratorium ended. All Danny had to say was, we have a deal no matter what happens in free agency, but just let me use my cap space first. Danny however said let me see what happens in free agency and then we can work something out. Danny just wouldn't give a commitment that the trade would happen no matter what, which is all Indiana wanted.
I don't think any of us will ever know exactly what went down with the trade negotiations. Indy hopped on sub-par pretty quickly. I understand that the deal wasn't 'finalized' until after Hayward agreed to sign with us, but it was announced into 4 days prior. For some reason, Indy felt like they needed to take the deal with OKC in the moment rather than telling them to wait four days.
In the end, I still don't regret the deal - Crowder, AB, Smart, and likely Rozier (along with picks) would have been required to get the deal done - unless you wanted to deal Tatum or Brown instead of Smart/Rozier. I am satisfied not having two questionable expiring contracts on the horizon while keeping Rozier, Smart, acquiring Morris, and solidifying our PG for the future with Kyrie.
And this is all assuming that DA wanted both Hayward and George, which I am certainly not confident in. Frankly, I think DA makes the same deal he made with Cleveland if IT was healthy - minus the 2nd rounder (people assuming we never would have to include the BKN pick just aren't thinking the deal through - that was by far the most important piece).
Obviously if Danny didn't want both George and Hayward, then it would make perfect sense why he would say let me see what happens in free agency before committing to the trade. But it also makes sense that Indy might not want to wait and just wanted to be done with George. They also might have had concerns that OKC would have moved on and traded Oladipo or Sabonis in the interim, thus making it a lose lose situation for themselves. However, if Danny would have been happy to acquire George after signing Hayward, then Danny completely and utterly blew that negotiation.
-
Point being for those that wanted the George trade where you were going to be giving up real assets. Which 3 out of 4 (Thomas, Hayward, Horford, George) were you going to move forward with after this year?
-
Hayward actually agreed before the Pacers deal was made official. Indy was willing to wait on the trade. They weren't willing to wait on a commitment from Danny. They wanted a firm yes, and Danny would only give a maybe.
Not trying to jump in an argument here, but I thought George was traded on 6/30, while Hayward definitely agreed to sign with the Cs on 7/4. Are you saying that Indy could have pulled out of the deal they already agreed to?
I don't disagree with you that there was likely someway, somehow we could have made outgoing salaries work in a George deal and also sign Hayward, but it would have been pretty destructive to our team. Also, having IT injured on an expiring deal and George who seemed lukewarm about going anywhere but LA on an expiring deal could have really blown up in our faces.
The trade wasn't finalized until after the moratorium ended. All Danny had to say was, we have a deal no matter what happens in free agency, but just let me use my cap space first. Danny however said let me see what happens in free agency and then we can work something out. Danny just wouldn't give a commitment that the trade would happen no matter what, which is all Indiana wanted.
Is this factual? Is there any evidence that this is what happened or is this just the thing that people have come to believe probably happened?
There were a number of articles on it where that was certainly implied if not outright stated.
I remember this being the speculation but I don't actually remember reading it anywhere.
Actually, I have a memory of listening to a podcast (either Simmons or Lowe) and someone saying that Indiana never even gave Boston a chance to make an offer. But I can't remember when I heard it and I can't find it googling so maybe I made it up.
-
Hayward actually agreed before the Pacers deal was made official. Indy was willing to wait on the trade. They weren't willing to wait on a commitment from Danny. They wanted a firm yes, and Danny would only give a maybe.
Not trying to jump in an argument here, but I thought George was traded on 6/30, while Hayward definitely agreed to sign with the Cs on 7/4. Are you saying that Indy could have pulled out of the deal they already agreed to?
I don't disagree with you that there was likely someway, somehow we could have made outgoing salaries work in a George deal and also sign Hayward, but it would have been pretty destructive to our team. Also, having IT injured on an expiring deal and George who seemed lukewarm about going anywhere but LA on an expiring deal could have really blown up in our faces.
The trade wasn't finalized until after the moratorium ended. All Danny had to say was, we have a deal no matter what happens in free agency, but just let me use my cap space first. Danny however said let me see what happens in free agency and then we can work something out. Danny just wouldn't give a commitment that the trade would happen no matter what, which is all Indiana wanted.
Is this factual? Is there any evidence that this is what happened or is this just the thing that people have come to believe probably happened?
There were a number of articles on it where that was certainly implied if not outright stated.
I remember this being the speculation but I don't actually remember reading it anywhere.
Actually, I have a memory of listening to a podcast (either Simmons or Lowe) and someone saying that Indiana never even gave Boston a chance to make an offer. But I can't remember when I heard it and I can't find it googling so maybe I made it up.
Woj said (on twitter if not an actual article) that the Pacers wanted Smart, Crowder, and multiple picks but that Boston didn't want to close the deal before signing Hayward. In other words, all Boston had to do was commit to the trade, which wouldn't have been finalized until after the moratorium ended, but that Boston wasn't willing to do that. A later or concurrent report stated that none of those multiple picks were the BKN or LAL picks.
-
Given the new and improved Smart, that deal for one season of George would've been an epic overpay.
-
Given the new and improved Smart, that deal for one season of George would've been an epic overpay.
George is already talking about resigning in OKC. What makes you think it would have only been for one season?
-
It would be only one season with George because the Celtics would not pay for four max players, imho. In fact I would go as far to say that it was always going to be Hayward OR George never both.
-
If you want to run with the big dawgs, don't p--- like a puppy!
-
It would be only one season with George because the Celtics would not pay for four max players, imho. In fact I would go as far to say that it was always going to be Hayward OR George never both.
If Boston was only going to have 3 max contracts and had to decide between Thomas and George, Boston would have chosen George. He is quite simply better than Thomas, fits better than Thomas, and isn't a long term injury risk (unless he gets hurt this season). Thomas was always going to be the one to go, which is why Boston still might have moved him for Irving in some other form of that trade even with George and Hayward (and not Smart, Crowder, or Bradley).
-
I agree George is better. Not sure they would have made the trade for Kyrie because again you would have four max contracts. I obviously cannot prove this but I think this offseason Hayward was plan A and George was the back up plan if Hayward did not sign. Once Hayward committed Celtics did not have interest in George. They also did not have interest in George until they knew what Hayward was going to do. Ainge was holding off Indiana until he knew what was up with Hayward. Now if Hayward resigned with, say Utah and Indiana made the deal with OKC Danny would have been holding the bag that outcome would have been really bad.
-
I agree George is better. Not sure they would have made the trade for Kyrie because again you would have four max contracts.
There is no way Kyrie is here if the George trade goes through.
My guess is the deal for George was Bradley + Crowder + BK 2018 + another 1st. It is possible that the BK 2018 wasn't on the table and that is why Pritchard didn't reach out to them, but that offer trumps what they got from OKC.
-
I agree George is better. Not sure they would have made the trade for Kyrie because again you would have four max contracts.
There is no way Kyrie is here if the George trade goes through.
My guess is the deal for George was Bradley + Crowder + BK 2018 + another 1st. It is possible that the BK 2018 wasn't on the table and that is why Pritchard didn't reach out to them, but that offer trumps what they got from OKC.
that just isn't right by what everyone including Woj said. Smart, Crowder, and non premium 1sts is all it took to land George
-
I agree George is better. Not sure they would have made the trade for Kyrie because again you would have four max contracts.
There is no way Kyrie is here if the George trade goes through.
My guess is the deal for George was Bradley + Crowder + BK 2018 + another 1st. It is possible that the BK 2018 wasn't on the table and that is why Pritchard didn't reach out to them, but that offer trumps what they got from OKC.
that just isn't right by what everyone including Woj said. Smart, Crowder, and non premium 1sts is all it took to land George
Maybe I wasn't paying attention, but I neither recall nor am able to find anything concrete about what the Pacers did or did not want.
-
I agree George is better. Not sure they would have made the trade for Kyrie because again you would have four max contracts.
There is no way Kyrie is here if the George trade goes through.
My guess is the deal for George was Bradley + Crowder + BK 2018 + another 1st. It is possible that the BK 2018 wasn't on the table and that is why Pritchard didn't reach out to them, but that offer trumps what they got from OKC.
that just isn't right by what everyone including Woj said. Smart, Crowder, and non premium 1sts is all it took to land George
Maybe I wasn't paying attention, but I neither recall nor am able to find anything concrete about what the Pacers did or did not want.
it is in this thread and was all iver the site fir weeks
-
Stephen A Smith said on ESPN that Thomas camp accuses Ainge of deceit, using him to recruit free agents while shopping him to other teams. Said that Thomas heard Ainge approached Cleveland first, and was trying to trade Thomas to around the league throughout the off season.
-
Stephen A Smith said on ESPN that Thomas camp accuses Ainge of deceit, using him to recruit free agents while shopping him to other teams. Said that Thomas heard Ainge approached Cleveland first, and was trying to trade Thomas to around the league throughout the off season.
I mean, isn't that basically what happened? There was no way Ainge was going to pay Isaiah next summer once the details of Thomas' hip became known, and they weren't going to keep Isaiah on a shelf for half the season and then watch him walk next summer. Given that we know that Isaiah was a big part of recruiting Hayward and that Ainge was quoted saying something along the lines of "this trade wasn't available a month ago" when he got Irving, Ange using Thomas to recruit FAs while planning to eventually trade him is the most logical way to read the events of the summer.
-
Stephen A Smith said on ESPN that Thomas camp accuses Ainge of deceit, using him to recruit free agents while shopping him to other teams. Said that Thomas heard Ainge approached Cleveland first, and was trying to trade Thomas to around the league throughout the off season.
I can understand the message sent to a player when they are asked to participate in recruitment efforts on behalf of the team. I think anyone would assume that this means that management considers you to be part of the future.
On the other hand, any player who thinks their GM (especially if it's Danny Ainge) isn't constantly looking for ways to improve the team (which includes trading anyone), isn't paying close enough attention.
-
I agree George is better. Not sure they would have made the trade for Kyrie because again you would have four max contracts.
There is no way Kyrie is here if the George trade goes through.
My guess is the deal for George was Bradley + Crowder + BK 2018 + another 1st. It is possible that the BK 2018 wasn't on the table and that is why Pritchard didn't reach out to them, but that offer trumps what they got from OKC.
that just isn't right by what everyone including Woj said. Smart, Crowder, and non premium 1sts is all it took to land George
Maybe I wasn't paying attention, but I neither recall nor am able to find anything concrete about what the Pacers did or did not want.
it is in this thread and was all iver the site fir weeks
Moranis is right on this. Crowder, Smart, multiple non-BRK/LAL picks.
-
Stephen A Smith said on ESPN that Thomas camp accuses Ainge of deceit, using him to recruit free agents while shopping him to other teams. Said that Thomas heard Ainge approached Cleveland first, and was trying to trade Thomas to around the league throughout the off season.
I mean, if Ainge was shopping IT while promising him he'd be a building block, selling free agents on a future with IT, etc., that's sleazy. I don't care about results, that's the wrong way to conduct business.
But, it's not necessarily true. SAS is repeating rumors of rumors.
-
Stephen A Smith said on ESPN that Thomas camp accuses Ainge of deceit, using him to recruit free agents while shopping him to other teams. Said that Thomas heard Ainge approached Cleveland first, and was trying to trade Thomas to around the league throughout the off season.
I mean, if Ainge was shopping IT while promising him he'd be a building block, selling free agents on a future with IT, etc., that's sleazy. I don't care about results, that's the wrong way to conduct business.
But, it's not necessarily true. SAS is repeating rumors of rumors.
classic SAS
-
I agree George is better. Not sure they would have made the trade for Kyrie because again you would have four max contracts.
There is no way Kyrie is here if the George trade goes through.
My guess is the deal for George was Bradley + Crowder + BK 2018 + another 1st. It is possible that the BK 2018 wasn't on the table and that is why Pritchard didn't reach out to them, but that offer trumps what they got from OKC.
that just isn't right by what everyone including Woj said. Smart, Crowder, and non premium 1sts is all it took to land George
Maybe I wasn't paying attention, but I neither recall nor am able to find anything concrete about what the Pacers did or did not want.
it is in this thread and was all iver the site fir weeks
Moranis is right on this. Crowder, Smart, multiple non-BRK/LAL picks.
Yeah, I found an article from Woj about it.
The Pacers were seeking Jae Crowder, Marcus Smart and multiple picks from the Boston Celtics. The Celtics weren't ready to finalize that deal with multiple picks as they wanted to sign Gordon Hayward before moving on the George trade.
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/246649/Pacers-Were-Offered-Gary-Harris-In-Three-Way-Paul-George-Trade
-
A better PG (Irving) came available at the same time that our best player (IT) was injured and was heading into a very expensive FA period.
As far as we know, Irving wasn't available prior to this summer.
Given new information, why should Danny not try to pursue the best available talent (Kyrie).
While it does suck that IT's feelings were hurt in this process, it is a business. Every player is told that it can be a cold business as a rookie.
I feel for IT, as it just seemed like he was in a stable, good spot for the first time in his career. At the same time, I think that he will find security and happiness in another city. He will be fine.
He's justified for being upset, and I'm justified to be excited b/c the Celtics have a brighter future after the trade.
-
Danny knows exactly how IT feels as he was a very good piece of a championship caliber team and was traded away for Joe Klein. Unlike IT, he was sent to purgatory and IT got sent to the Cavs. This however is a business. I liked IT and he was fun to watch, however he was badly injured with no guarantee he'd ever return to form. For a little guy who depends so much on his speed and athleticism, and a guy who made a dumb comment about backing up the Brinks truck, it was too much business risk. Kyrie is definitely the better player, and so it had to be done. I understand why he's upset, but he lost a ton of respect acting like a whiny bitc*. Act like a grown man and even if you don't mean it be professional.
-
You know what folks, I also may not speak to Danny.
-
A better PG (Irving) came available at the same time that our best player (IT) was injured and was heading into a very expensive FA period.
As far as we know, Irving wasn't available prior to this summer.
Given new information, why should Danny not try to pursue the best available talent (Kyrie).
While it does suck that IT's feelings were hurt in this process, it is a business. Every player is told that it can be a cold business as a rookie.
I feel for IT, as it just seemed like he was in a stable, good spot for the first time in his career. At the same time, I think that he will find security and happiness in another city. He will be fine.
He's justified for being upset, and I'm justified to be excited b/c the Celtics have a brighter future after the trade.
TP for perfectly summarizing it.