CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: liam on October 06, 2017, 12:40:41 PM
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I see Tatum as the best rookie this year. I'm not sure who is going to have a better year than him. Simmons, maybe? Tatum will probably play the full season in limited minutes and all other rookies will hit the wall at some point. Does playing for a winning team off the bench not mean as much as playing for a terrible team but putting up numbers?
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Simmons will undoubtedly.
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Simmons. Press already fawning all over him.
Or Kuzma.
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Possibilities include Ball, Simmons, DSJ.
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From a talent standpoint, no one
From a stat padding stand point, only Dennis smith.
I’m not impressed from what I saw from Ball and Simmons. Both are really bad on defense. They just make highlight friendly passes and score against bad defenders. Simmons still to me looks like Lamar Odom 2.0
Fultz shot looks bad I’m not sold on him having a good season. I expect inefficient low scoring games from him.
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Define better?
Tatum will be a part of more wins than Simmons or Fultz, I'm confident of that.
Will he put up better counting stats? I doubt it, except perhaps as to scoring efficiency.
I think Dennis Smith and Simmons are the best bets to compete for ROY.
Ball is a possibility as well, but I expect him to have some wild ups and downs in his scoring efficiency.
Fultz is going to be a work in progress with his weird new jumper and learning to play off Simmons and Embiid.
Tatum will play 18-20 minutes per night, at most.
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Stats? Probably at least half a dozen rookies. Guys like Ball, Simmons, Fox, Smith and Fultz will get major playing time. Tatum is going to have a more difficult time seeing the floor. I have very low expectations for Tatum being even in the top 3 for RoY because I'm not confident he'll get even 1,600 minutes this year.
However, I don't use the RoY to determine who had the better season. What I want to see is consistent and improving production on both ends on the floor. If he shows that then it's all good.
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Probably a fake rookie like Simmons.
ROTY is the most worthless of the awards anyway. There is no fair way to compare someone who starts and stars on a lottery team to someone who matters as a rookie like Jaylen Brown or Patrick McCaw.
It bothers me even more though when people not drafted within 12 months of the award being given out are up for consideration. Played overseas for a year, well, you are eligible for awards there. Got injured and didn't play your first year, injuries are part of the game and they just cost you your shot at Rookie of the Year.
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Simmons, Fultz, Ball, Jackson, and Smith
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Probably a fake rookie like Simmons.
ROTY is the most worthless of the awards anyway. There is no fair way to compare someone who starts and stars on a lottery team to someone who matters as a rookie like Jaylen Brown or Patrick McCaw.
It bothers me even more though when people not drafted within 12 months of the award being given out are up for consideration. Played overseas for a year, well, you are eligible for awards there. Got injured and didn't play your first year, injuries are part of the game and they just cost you your shot at Rookie of the Year.
I agree I think it's ridiculous that Simmons can be considered a rookie. He's had an unfair advantage of coaching and training with nba level trainers and coaches. He knows how the game is played
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Simmons will undoubtedly.
A smart man would bet this..... All we have to do is look at the odds in Vegas for a ball park. The kid in Utah might be the rookie of the year. He looks like he understands what it takes and is somewhat fearless.
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I see Tatum as the best rookie this year. I'm not sure who is going to have a better year than him. Simmons, maybe? Tatum will probably play the full season in limited minutes and all other rookies will hit the wall at some point. Does playing for a winning team off the bench not mean as much as playing for a terrible team but putting up numbers?
please define "better." do you mean counting stats? development?
tatum will have trouble with the former since he wont get the same number of minutes as folks such as simmons, fultz, ball...all of whom play on bad teams.
so, how should we define "better" please?
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I see Tatum as the best rookie this year. I'm not sure who is going to have a better year than him. Simmons, maybe? Tatum will probably play the full season in limited minutes and all other rookies will hit the wall at some point. Does playing for a winning team off the bench not mean as much as playing for a terrible team but putting up numbers?
please define "better." do you mean counting stats? development?
tatum will have trouble with the former since he wont get the same number of minutes as folks such as simmons, fultz, ball...all of whom play on bad teams.
so, how should we define "better" please?
I prefer to decide that at the end of the season, in order define "better" in a way that guarantees Tatum is #1.
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Simmons will undoubtedly.
I agree. I think he'll flirt with a 14/10/10 triple double.
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Simmons will undoubtedly.
I agree. I think he'll flirt with a 14/10/10 triple double.
You think he will be the best player in the history of NBA? A triple double as a rookie? I don't even think a drunk optimistic 76ers fan would guess that.
I am sure he will have some triple doubles based on his skills, but the extreme consistenty that is required to average one (or flirt with one) would be absurd to ask of a rookie.
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Health is going to be a huge part of ROY. So many of the top rookies this year seem injury prone and fragile.
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I think Dennis Smith Jr. ends up being the hands down RoY. He's got an NBA ready game right out of the box and he doesn't look shy about pulling the trigger.
He reminds me of the prototypical gunner who lights it up early in their careers only for that to be their peak.
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does anyone else feel like there should be a rule that you are considered a rookie only if you are in the first year of your deal?
it bums me out seeing players like simmons, embiid, and blake griffin being contenders for ROY
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Simmons will undoubtedly.
I agree. I think he'll flirt with a 14/10/10 triple double.
You think he will be the best player in the history of NBA? A triple double as a rookie? I don't even think a drunk optimistic 76ers fan would guess that.
I am sure he will have some triple doubles based on his skills, but the extreme consistenty that is required to average one (or flirt with one) would be absurd to ask of a rookie.
Those numbers have nothing to do with being the best player in NBA history or even best rookie. As far as precedent goes, Oscar Robertson nearly did it with 30.9 PPG, 10.1 RPG and 9.7 APG his rookie season.
Simmons is going to play big minutes and run the Sixers offense. The Sixers are going to be one of the top pace teams. With Embiid defending the lane and Covington on the perimeter, I think they'll have a lot of fast break opportunities. Embiid's focus will be on defense not rebounding. It certainly is a longshot but I think Simmons has a chance if his teammates shoot pretty well and he does some rebound hunting.
Found this article on top rookie seasons.
http://www.thesportster.com/basketball/top-10-greatest-rookie-seasons-in-nba-history/
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Bull from Finland. 14/15 PPG
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does anyone else feel like there should be a rule that you are considered a rookie only if you are in the first year of your deal?
it bums me out seeing players like simmons, embiid, and blake griffin being contenders for ROY
Not me. You're 1st season played is your rookie season. You've got 1 year freshman rookies going against 4 year senior rookies. Sitting out injured having to rehab just to get back to being able to play basketball is not some great advantage. Most of the time you are not even with the team.
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does anyone else feel like there should be a rule that you are considered a rookie only if you are in the first year of your deal?
it bums me out seeing players like simmons, embiid, and blake griffin being contenders for ROY
Not me. You're 1st season played is your rookie season. You've got 1 year freshman rookies going against 4 year senior rookies. Sitting out injured having to rehab just to get back to being able to play basketball is not some great advantage. Most of the time you are not even with the team.
the 4 year senior still didn't get a year of NBA coaching and mentoring. If you say that's meaningless, you're saying the entire concept of coaching and mentoring is meaningless. NBA basketball is much more complex than college ball
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Teodosic.
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My dude Jonathan Isaac!
He's the other guy I wanted, next to Tatum for our top pick. He will no doubt get plenty of minutes. ORL lacks a scoring threat, and I think he becomes one of their top options right away.
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Stats? Probably at least half a dozen rookies. Guys like Ball, Simmons, Fox, Smith and Fultz will get major playing time. Tatum is going to have a more difficult time seeing the floor. I have very low expectations for Tatum being even in the top 3 for RoY because I'm not confident he'll get even 1,600 minutes this year.
However, I don't use the RoY to determine who had the better season. What I want to see is consistent and improving production on both ends on the floor. If he shows that then it's all good.
Well, in light of the Hayward injury I think my response above is out the window. Tatum will now compete for the ROY as he'll get 25-30 mpg for a winning team. He'll get a lot more shots as the Celtics search to create offense.
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Stats? Probably at least half a dozen rookies. Guys like Ball, Simmons, Fox, Smith and Fultz will get major playing time. Tatum is going to have a more difficult time seeing the floor. I have very low expectations for Tatum being even in the top 3 for RoY because I'm not confident he'll get even 1,600 minutes this year.
However, I don't use the RoY to determine who had the better season. What I want to see is consistent and improving production on both ends on the floor. If he shows that then it's all good.
Well, in light of the Hayward injury I think my response above is out the window. Tatum will now compete for the ROY as he'll get 25-30 mpg for a winning team. He'll get a lot more shots as the Celtics search to create offense.
Yeah, I could see Tatum putting up 14-15 per game with 6-7 boards if he continues to start.
Hopefully more ;)
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If Tatum continues to get around 30 mpg no one will even come close ...
Wait until he starts firing threes ....
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obviously the Hayward injury will make a huge difference in Tatum's minutes and the need to have him become more of a primary scorer on the floor.
Despite the media's love affair with Simmons and Ball, they aren't great scorers, rebounders or defenders. I think Tatum will have a very legit chance to claim ROY when it's all said and done.
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If he's getting the minutes and plays the way that many of us expect him to play based on what we see in his potential, then I think he has an excellent shot now.
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Simmons. Press already fawning all over him.
Or Kuzma.
Or Fox. Or Ball. Or potentially even Markkanen depending on how the situation with Mirotic/Portis develops.
These are the rookies with lottery talent that will get handed the keys to the car. And they are less likely to get docked if not producing, since they're on horrible teams.
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If he's getting the minutes and plays the way that many of us expect him to play based on what we see in his potential, then I think he has an excellent shot now.
Yeah he'll put up very good numbers if he's playing 30+ minutes a night. Given we will be a playoff team strong ROY candidate, similar to Brogodon.
His on the court impact will probably be worse than his PPG/RPG/FG% just because, well he's a rook that's how the NBA works.
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I think Teodosic will be Tatum's only competition for ROY.
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I'm very high on Tatum's rookie of the year chances right now. He's my front runner.
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Maybe Ben Simmons. Maybe Lonzo Ball. Those are my top 3.
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Simmons. Press already fawning all over him.
Or Kuzma.
Or Fox. Or Ball. Or potentially even Markkanen depending on how the situation with Mirotic/Portis develops.
These are the rookies with lottery talent that will get handed the keys to the car. And they are less likely to get docked if not producing, since they're on horrible teams.
I think the press thing was due to the expectations of playing time. That changes for Tatum now.
Plus, he may also have the best "story" of the bunch. What if - and this is reasonable - Tatum averages 16/7 AND the Cs manage to win their division. The story will be how Tatum stepped up and took over for an All-Star and the team didn't miss a beat. That's going to triumph over someone who might have slightly better numbers but is playing on a 30 win team.
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Simmons. Press already fawning all over him.
Or Kuzma.
Or Fox. Or Ball. Or potentially even Markkanen depending on how the situation with Mirotic/Portis develops.
These are the rookies with lottery talent that will get handed the keys to the car. And they are less likely to get docked if not producing, since they're on horrible teams.
I think the press thing was due to the expectations of playing time. That changes for Tatum now.
Plus, he may also have the best "story" of the bunch. What if - and this is reasonable - Tatum averages 16/7 AND the Cs manage to win their division. The story will be how Tatum stepped up and took over for an All-Star and the team didn't miss a beat. That's going to triumph over someone who might have slightly better numbers but is playing on a 30 win team.
Is this Tatum's Tom Brady moment? Am I trying really hard to find an optimistic angle right now?