CelticsStrong

Beyond the Association => Maine Red Claws / D-League => Topic started by: cons on July 09, 2016, 11:28:34 PM

Title: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: cons on July 09, 2016, 11:28:34 PM
 i'd say based on summer league play he looks closer to a real NBA player than Young and Hunter, even Bentil. he's hit some 3's, had some nice drives, and doesn't seem that lost.
  Its surprising.
I'm thinking I might rather see him get the chance to hang around longer then those 3.

 any other fans out there of the egyptian dwight powell ??? :)
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: Chris22 on July 09, 2016, 11:30:29 PM
I would have gotten rid of Young a year ago.
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: acieEarl on July 09, 2016, 11:31:43 PM
Agree. Kid looked good. Played D pretty well and took the ball to the hole. I hope they keep giving him minutes in the summer league. Brown looked like his knee was holding him back. Young is terrible.
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: 86MaxwellSmart on July 09, 2016, 11:34:45 PM
Yes, I just posted that this guy has been my favorite rookie so far.
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: triboy16f on November 24, 2016, 05:54:30 PM
Impressive. Nader might turn out to be the IT of the 2016 draft

So far down at the d league...
Stats: 27.6 points, 4.2 rebounds, 3.4 assists, 2.0 steals in five games while shooting 52.8 percent from the field and 46.4 percent on 3s.
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: triboy16f on November 24, 2016, 05:55:38 PM
Kiss Young goodbye?

Imagine if Nader ends up being better than Brown..
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: tazzmaniac on November 24, 2016, 06:11:20 PM
Kiss Young goodbye?

Imagine if Nader ends up being better than Brown..
I'd rather not because that would most likely mean that Brown busts. 
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: mr. dee on November 24, 2016, 06:40:32 PM
Nader never outplayed Brown in the summer league. Im 100% sure that if Brown is sent to the Red Claws, he'd look like a superstar out there. There is no one on the D-league who can beat you off the dribble, create contact and draw fouls like Jaylen does.
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: hwangjini_1 on November 24, 2016, 06:43:09 PM
Impressive. Nader might turn out to be the IT of the 2016 draft

So far down at the d league...
Stats: 27.6 points, 4.2 rebounds, 3.4 assists, 2.0 steals in five games while shooting 52.8 percent from the field and 46.4 percent on 3s.
interesting. just curious, but what were young's numbers? i am traveling right now and cant look them up. apologies.
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: alldaboston on November 24, 2016, 07:11:09 PM
Impressive. Nader might turn out to be the IT of the 2016 draft

So far down at the d league...
Stats: 27.6 points, 4.2 rebounds, 3.4 assists, 2.0 steals in five games while shooting 52.8 percent from the field and 46.4 percent on 3s.
interesting. just curious, but what were young's numbers? i am traveling right now and cant look them up. apologies.

2014-15 and 2015-16 combined:

Right around 18 ppg, 5 rpg, 2 apg
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: tstorey_97 on November 24, 2016, 09:06:10 PM
I watch the games sometimes and they just don't play defense. This, of course runs in the face of calling it "D league."

Also,it isn't Nader's fault that the opposing team watches you run down and score.

To conclude, I am not sure of Nader's defense either. Wish we had room up here to see what he's got...Ainge is due to get a starter out of the second round might as well be Abdul.
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: trickybilly on November 24, 2016, 09:56:18 PM
Where are the D-League game highlights on youtube this year?? Can't find em!
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: jacigar on December 03, 2016, 03:51:41 PM
C,s need sg scorer. Give up on Young and give Nader a chance. Also bring Zizic in at earliest chance and find out if these 2 players are going to be in the mix going forward. bigs: Harford,KO,AJ,Zeller,Zizic and Jerebko.  MIds Crowder,Brown,Green g/f Smart SG:Bradley,Nader
pg IT,Rozier,Jackson . Lets find out ,who can we build on. Do we need a trade and who do we draft ?
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: alldaboston on December 03, 2016, 03:59:12 PM
C,s need sg scorer. Give up on Young and give Nader a chance. Also bring Zizic in at earliest chance and find out if these 2 players are going to be in the mix going forward. bigs: Harford,KO,AJ,Zeller,Zizic and Jerebko.  MIds Crowder,Brown,Green g/f Smart SG:Bradley,Nader
pg IT,Rozier,Jackson . Lets find out ,who can we build on. Do we need a trade and who do we draft ?

dude, Jaylen is struggling to get playing time. young doesn't even play most nights. Nader wouldn't be ahead of either of them in the rotation
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: spikelovetheCelts on December 03, 2016, 05:00:58 PM
C,s need sg scorer. Give up on Young and give Nader a chance. Also bring Zizic in at earliest chance and find out if these 2 players are going to be in the mix going forward. bigs: Harford,KO,AJ,Zeller,Zizic and Jerebko.  MIds Crowder,Brown,Green g/f Smart SG:Bradley,Nader
pg IT,Rozier,Jackson . Lets find out ,who can we build on. Do we need a trade and who do we draft ?

dude, Jaylen is struggling to get playing time. young doesn't even play most nights. Nader wouldn't be ahead of either of them in the rotation
Young's stroke in shoot around the other day look Chrip and sweet. We will regret losing him. I hope he gets some minutes in the small lineup soon.
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: rollie mass on December 03, 2016, 05:20:01 PM
nader hurt his shoulder just coming back , he has a game tonight and another tomorrow
danny drafted and stashed him,
-morrison the coach said he is working  on his d
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: SHAQATTACK on December 03, 2016, 06:25:14 PM
Darth Celtic
Title: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: rollie mass on January 06, 2017, 03:47:23 PM
2 assists from triple double -32 points 10 rebounds-4-7 from three,8 assists and 10 rebounds
he has to clean up some turnovers off dribble and cross court kicks after penetration-a strong two handed dunk some steals and blocked shots-
game just ended-but it is on tape
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: SHAQATTACK on January 06, 2017, 03:52:53 PM
I have a good feeling he may be at least a good bench player one day. 

I'm ready to loose Young and give Nader a shot
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: Eddie20 on January 06, 2017, 04:45:31 PM
Mickey looks like Chamberlain in the D-League, so it's best to temper expectations.
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: droopdog7 on January 06, 2017, 04:48:53 PM
I have a good feeling he may be at least a good bench player one day. 

I'm ready to loose Young and give Nader a shot
I can't believe the number of people on the internet that don't know the difference between lose and loose. 
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: Chris22 on January 06, 2017, 05:12:57 PM
Too small to play power forward, too slow to play small forward.
He's a tweener.
That is the problem.
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: saltlover on January 06, 2017, 05:16:57 PM
I have a good feeling he may be at least a good bench player one day. 

I'm ready to loose Young and give Nader a shot
I can't believe the number of people on the internet that don't know the difference between lose and loose.

I can't either, but it's pretty far down my list of things wrong with people on the internet.
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: knuckleballer on January 06, 2017, 05:17:20 PM
If the Celts pull off the trade I'm hoping for (Cousins) and have to give up Brown, I wonder if they would give Nader a shot at backing up Crowder.
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: Chris22 on January 06, 2017, 05:18:20 PM
If the Celts pull off the trade I'm hoping for (Cousins) and have to give up Brown, I wonder if they would give Nader a shot at backing up Crowder.

LOL
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: CelticPride2016 on January 06, 2017, 05:20:12 PM
Mickey looks like Chamberlain in the D-League, so it's best to temper expectations.

This is true, except I think it was Fab Melo who was the Wilt Chamberlain of the D-League.

Danny could easily cut Mickey (or unload Zeller) and Young and then add Nader and Zizac for the second half. Brad might then have players with something unique to offer from the deep end of the bench.

We should make sure guys like Zizac and Nader aren't hidden gems before spending outrageous assets in "on tilt" trades.

My problem with Nader is similar to Rozier. Where does Nader fit into a rotation which includes Brown and Crowder? I could see Brown at shooting guard and Jae at SF. I mean, they might not be redundant. I think we can keep both of them long-term in the same rotation. Where is there room for Rozier and Nader? Zizac fills a certain hole.

Yabusele seems destined to fill a future power forward slot. I think Olynyk will be resigned if not included in a trade for a big such as Noel.

Demetrius Jackson is another player.

Danny can't keep everyone. There are still a million more draft picks to select to add on to all the stashes and semi-stashes like Nader.

It's a catch-22? You are trying to win, so you can't play them? Only upper echelon talent like Brown and Smart are capable enough to be thrown into the NBA fire?

Rozier has potential as a rotation quality guard, but Smart has taken away his minutes. Unless there is an injury, he is only an asset to such a degree. It's amazing that James Young is still on the team. It should have been Nader, then this wouldn't be turning into a potential issue. I guess who can blame Danny for wanting the cake and to eat it too. He's drooling over a boatload of assets and some will probably be lost. Hopefully he doesn't pick the wrong guys. RJ Hunter will probably never haunt us, but Nader could.
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: BitterJim on January 06, 2017, 05:20:44 PM
I have a good feeling he may be at least a good bench player one day. 

I'm ready to loose Young and give Nader a shot
I can't believe the number of people on the internet that don't know the difference between lose and loose.

"Loose" could actually be correct in this context, though (as in "let him loose", but using it as a verb)
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: knuckleballer on January 06, 2017, 05:30:55 PM
If the Celts pull off the trade I'm hoping for (Cousins) and have to give up Brown, I wonder if they would give Nader a shot at backing up Crowder.

LOL

I don't mean giving him 15 minutes a game right away and assuming he can handle that.  Jerebko would continue to get minutes at the three as would Smart.  But I wonder if they would sign him to the team and give him a look and a chance to earn minutes.  He's been about or close to the best player in the d league. He's averaging 22.5 points on 48% shooting, 40% 3 pt shooting, 6.3 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 1.2 steals, and 0.7 blocks per game and he's only been getting better.  There is not much more he can do down there.
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: rollie mass on January 06, 2017, 05:35:07 PM
i post his numbers because i think nader is a good basketball player who is on the rise-he does a lot right with some elite skills and wingspan
he could wind up a 40% 3 point shooter and a player that takes whats given and makes the right play-he is not a chucker but aggressively gets to the hoop  or kicks unlike james-
for such a late draft choice i assume he has already exceeded expectations
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: knuckleballer on January 06, 2017, 05:41:16 PM
I haven't watched any of the Red Claws' games, how does his defense look?
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: Redz on January 06, 2017, 05:41:28 PM
I have a good feeling he may be at least a good bench player one day. 

I'm ready to loose Young and give Nader a shot
I can't believe the number of people on the internet that don't know the difference between lose and loose.

"Loose" could actually be correct in this context, though (as in "let him loose", but using it as a verb)
that would be a loose interpretation
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: CelticPride2016 on January 06, 2017, 05:52:50 PM
i post his numbers because i think nader is a good basketball player who is on the rise-he does a lot right with some elite skills and wingspan
he could wind up a 40% 3 point shooter and a player that takes whats given and makes the right play-he is not a chucker but aggressively gets to the hoop  or kicks unlike james-
for such a late draft choice i assume he has already exceeded expectations

Nader should be on the team right now or soon. It's after Christmas. They gave James Young every opportunity. The lesson of Young and Hunter is there are not going to be a trillion chances to show your skills as a Celtic.

Guys like Jordan Mickey and Terry Rozier might be getting ripped off or it was just bad timing.

Gerald Green got it done when we needed it.

We need some blowouts and garbage time for better evaluation.

If Zizac performs in the tougher league, he should be on the team asap. I imagine the fan jury is in agreement Zeller istaking up space. The sooner the more talented but rawer guys are into the flow, the better.

We had a big win and all the talk was on Gordon Hayward. It was shameful. This is more relevant and tangible to Celtics reality.
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: KG Living Legend on January 06, 2017, 06:30:22 PM
I have a good feeling he may be at least a good bench player one day. 

I'm ready to loose Young and give Nader a shot
I can't believe the number of people on the internet that don't know the difference between lose and loose.



 Shaq is the man. Maybe he was referring to Young's loose handle Lol.
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: SHAQATTACK on January 06, 2017, 07:24:02 PM
I have a good feeling he may be at least a good bench player one day. 

I'm ready to loose Young and give Nader a shot
I can't believe the number of people on the internet that don't know the difference between lose and loose.

Sorry for the mistake ... I guess I should be flogged for offending all  the Einsteins on this blog.

Anyway just get rid of worthless Young and let Nader have a go .👹
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: SHAQATTACK on January 06, 2017, 07:25:37 PM
I have a good feeling he may be at least a good bench player one day. 

I'm ready to loose Young and give Nader a shot
I can't believe the number of people on the internet that don't know the difference between lose and loose.



 Shaq is the man. Maybe he was referring to Young's loose handle Lol.

Dat too.
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: 2short on January 06, 2017, 07:49:38 PM
Too small to play power forward, too slow to play small forward.
He's a tweener.
That is the problem.
You are thinking of a former binkie ryan gomes.   Nader has more foot speed and a bit of kg attitude mixed in.  I'm ready for him up and if at all possible young moved in a group trade.
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: hwangjini_1 on January 06, 2017, 08:32:28 PM
I have a good feeling he may be at least a good bench player one day. 

I'm ready to loose Young and give Nader a shot
I can't believe the number of people on the internet that don't know the difference between lose and loose.

Sorry for the mistake ... I guess I should be flogged for offending all  the Einsteins on this blog.

Anyway just get rid of worthless Young and let Nader have a go .👹
not flogged. that is simply hyperbole on your part and evades taking responsibility for developing your writing.

my question is, did you learn to spell better thanks to the point made by droop dog? being defensive doesnt solve anything in this situation. nor does pushing back against the board in general for the remark of a specific poster.

if you dont like folks pointing out spelling errors, do a better job. simple.
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: greece666 on January 07, 2017, 11:29:19 AM
I have a good feeling he may be at least a good bench player one day. 

I'm ready to loose Young and give Nader a shot
I can't believe the number of people on the internet that don't know the difference between lose and loose.
i ve made much worse typos than that
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: Celtics4ever on January 07, 2017, 11:53:16 AM
Quote
not flogged. that is simply hyperbole on your part and evades taking responsibility for developing your writing.

my question is, did you learn to spell better thanks to the point made by droop dog? being defensive doesnt solve anything in this situation. nor does pushing back against the board in general for the remark of a specific poster.

if you dont like folks pointing out spelling errors, do a better job. simple.


Wow look at the not flogged sentence.  Notice any problems?   No subject?  No capitalization.

Looks someone likes being a Spelling Nazi but they need a Grammer Nazi?  JK, I am a horrible example of correct grammar or spelling.  I just find the irony hilarious.

Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: Emmette Bryant on January 07, 2017, 11:56:40 AM
I have a good feeling he may be at least a good bench player one day. 

I'm ready to loose Young and give Nader a shot
I can't believe the number of people on the internet that don't know the difference between lose and loose.
i ve made much worse typos than that

you guys are to much
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: Diggles on January 07, 2017, 12:07:57 PM
I have a good feeling he may be at least a good bench player one day. 

I'm ready to loose Young and give Nader a shot
I can't believe the number of people on the internet that don't know the difference between lose and loose.

The Moose is Loose! 
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: rollie mass on January 07, 2017, 12:21:15 PM
i'm famous for my bad spelling,poor punctuation,sentence structure and being a homer
 only if i won spelling b's instead of basketball games -even mark twain liked the creativity of improper spelling
that brings me to my ivy league family of drs and phd's about 12 of them
my father was an embarrassment when it came to athletics but a yale phi beta kappa mathematician then MIT-i thought i must have been adopted
-i didn't want to be  a nerd and spelling was nerdy, wouldn't play the flute either

 playing every sport and all i got for christmas was not the glove or hockey skates i wanted but chemistry sets ,book plates in latin,puzzle books

when i got older, i told the story that as soon as i found out my father was santa i knew i would never get what i wanted-so my old man says, what do you want-i said celtic tickets-FINALLY what i want at christmas
i got tickets, not to celtics not even celtic dancers because of a communication problem but  tickets to russian folk dancers
thats my excuse for rebellion and laziness when it comes to spelling and sentence structure
 mark twain might like it

my nephews kid is being recruited by yale from rivers school-maybe an ivy leaguer that plays ball
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: footey on January 07, 2017, 12:31:22 PM
I have a good feeling he may be at least a good bench player one day. 

I'm ready to loose Young and give Nader a shot
I can't believe the number of people on the internet that don't know the difference between lose and loose.

Yeah, a lot of lose cannons out on the Internet.
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: footey on January 07, 2017, 12:51:31 PM
I have a good feeling he may be at least a good bench player one day. 

I'm ready to loose Young and give Nader a shot
I can't believe the number of people on the internet that don't know the difference between lose and loose.

Sorry for the mistake ... I guess I should be flogged for offending all  the Einsteins on this blog.

Anyway just get rid of worthless Young and let Nader have a go .👹
not flogged. that is simply hyperbole on your part and evades taking responsibility for developing your writing.

my question is, did you learn to spell better thanks to the point made by droop dog? being defensive doesnt solve anything in this situation. nor does pushing back against the board in general for the remark of a specific poster.

if you dont like folks pointing out spelling errors, do a better job. simple.

Super annoying comment. Guys don't post here to get graded on their grammar. Lighten up please.
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: Smitty77 on January 07, 2017, 01:43:53 PM
Back to the topic.  Wow, I thought I was back in my English class in college:-(((

Do we have rights to Nader????

Smitty77

Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: kraidstar on January 07, 2017, 02:11:47 PM
I've watched Nader a bunch of times - I briefly spoke to him once as I walked by the bench, was very pleasant - might go see the Claws tomorrow, too.

He is good at almost everything so far.

His size is impressive, as is his length.

He is aggressive attacking the rim, his speed is excellent for his size. He's a little loose with the handle sometimes, and might have some trouble splitting NBA defenses, though his raw strength should help. He is a very strong rebounder, he has a knack for it, reminds me a little of Evan Turner in that regard.

Good court vision, solid passer.

Good stroke for 3's. Can hit contested shots to an extent.

Doesn't have much of a pullup/fadeaway yet, but really a well-rounded player otherwise.

Fairly strong, can finish around the rim.

Can guard multiple positions, doesn't get pushed around by big men. Lots of potential on defense with his length and footspeed. Reminds me a little there of Tayshaun, Rick Fox, or Robert Horry.

Probably a better prospect so far than Mickey or Rozier (both of whom I like a lot). Pretty exciting, he just dominates the game.
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: mmmmm on January 09, 2017, 11:02:26 AM
The thing that is appealing to me about Nader is that he is aggressive and confident about applying his basketball skills in order to make plays.  I love that he's shown a wide, versatile set of ways of scoring and creating points from all over the floor.

I suppose he may lack certain 'fast twitch' elite athletic abilities that may explain why he was nowhere near anybody's top prospects lists.

But he has measurably good length and visibly good skills on offense and he hasn't seemed shy about using those skills.   He sees the opportunities on the floor and attacks them.   And so far, against the competition he's been allowed to face, he's getting very positive results.

That's pretty much all we can expect of him to this point.
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: footey on January 09, 2017, 11:11:09 AM
I've watched Nader a bunch of times - I briefly spoke to him once as I walked by the bench, was very pleasant - might go see the Claws tomorrow, too.

He is good at almost everything so far.

His size is impressive, as is his length.

He is aggressive attacking the rim, his speed is excellent for his size. He's a little loose with the handle sometimes, and might have some trouble splitting NBA defenses, though his raw strength should help. He is a very strong rebounder, he has a knack for it, reminds me a little of Evan Turner in that regard.

Good court vision, solid passer.

Good stroke for 3's. Can hit contested shots to an extent.

Doesn't have much of a pullup/fadeaway yet, but really a well-rounded player otherwise.

Fairly strong, can finish around the rim.

Can guard multiple positions, doesn't get pushed around by big men. Lots of potential on defense with his length and footspeed. Reminds me a little there of Tayshaun, Rick Fox, or Robert Horry.

Probably a better prospect so far than Mickey or Rozier (both of whom I like a lot). Pretty exciting, he just dominates the game.

TP for scouting report. I love first hand accounts like this. 
Title: Re: nader filling up stats -a double double
Post by: Surferdad on January 09, 2017, 12:59:09 PM
Back to the topic.  Wow, I thought I was back in my English class in college:-(((

Do we have rights to Nader????

Smitty77
Yes we do.  However, he is not under contract with the Boston Celtics currently and the roster is maxed out at 15. We would have to lose a guy to sign him right now.
Title: nader scores 29 then 25
Post by: rollie mass on January 15, 2017, 06:14:25 AM
abdel nader comes back  to score 29 playing point at 6-8 but has nine turnovers
, then back at wing scores 25 and had only three turnovers,9 assists,2 blocks ,2 steals,7 rebounds
the red claws are a 3pt machine but being a development team for the celts what about stressing defense
you can see periods when nader wants to step it up but if the whole team doesn't play it is ineffective-maybe the fans pay for points but if your going to play for celts better learn to play defense
at d league level nader shoots the three at about 40% and has little trouble in paint and getting to hoop
it seems that nader may turn into a solid bench player-over 80% from foul line,uses the glass well,fall away and mid range-elite wingspan,skilled with either hand which gives him edge over

james young-
young could continue to fill out  and become a nba player-young had length and a shooters stroke but nader has a elite 7-1 wingspan ,shoots 3 pointer with consistency,a good first step and usage of both hands getting to hoop
-he dominates in d league and other teams have taken notice as i saw a write up in a philly blog
we lost dwight powell to mavs this way as a throw in for rondo
Title: Re: nader scores 29 then 25
Post by: Surferdad on January 15, 2017, 09:57:49 AM
At this point, I certainly would be willing to package Young as we did Powell.

Nader however, has a chance to be better.  Great size, uses both hands, plays defense...keep the updates coming rollie!!
Title: Re: nader scores 29 then 25
Post by: Celtics18 on January 15, 2017, 10:01:16 AM
We still have the rights to Abdel Nader?

He's in Maine?
Title: Re: nader scores 29 then 25
Post by: A Future of Stevens on January 15, 2017, 10:11:57 AM
Going to play devils advocate here and remind everyone that Young absolutey tore up the d league also. His struggles came at the level that matters.

Now that that is out of the way, nader excites me. I could see him being a decent bench guy on our next contender. Great length, decent build, solid mechanics, can drive in a straight line.
Title: Re: nader scores 29 then 25
Post by: rollie mass on January 15, 2017, 10:55:04 AM
i have noticed an oddity with nader and that his left hand layups make me believe he is ambidextrous  --on foul shots he bounces the ball with his left hand before using his right-right handers bounce the ball normally with right hand
some kids are lefty that got taught basketball as right hander-my son wrote with left played ball predominately with right but layups couldn't tell the difference and was strong with left hand dribbling

Title: Re: nader scores 29 then 25
Post by: slamtheking on January 15, 2017, 11:25:22 AM
while Nader tearing up D league is better news than if he struggled, it doesn't prove anything.  as many have noticed, pretty much all of our draft picks tear up D league but none of them have really stepped up to be real additions to the C's roster. 

on a related note, I suspect that the confidence to play at the NBA level is probably not lacking with Nader as it seems to be for Young.  Nader seems to want it more -- could be just my limited exposure to his game in summer league.
Title: Re: nader scores 29 then 25
Post by: hwangjini_1 on January 15, 2017, 11:26:13 AM
We still have the rights to Abdel Nader?

He's in Maine?
i believe the celtics have no control over his signing rights and he is free to sign where he wishes. yet, i also believe that a "wink and nod" agreement exists where the celtics will bring him up should he excel, and, a space opens up this year or next.

if so, he has fulfilled his side of the bargain. now the celtics need the space.

finally, whether or not nader can reproduce these impressive numbers in the nba is the question. young looked very good in the dleague. in the nba? not so such.

p.s. good thread rollie. thanks for keeping nader on our collective radar. tp of course.  ;D
Title: Re: nader scores 29 then 25
Post by: Surferdad on January 15, 2017, 11:55:45 AM
We still have the rights to Abdel Nader?

He's in Maine?
i believe the celtics have no control over his signing rights and he is free to sign where he wishes. yet, i also believe that a "wink and nod" agreement exists where the celtics will bring him up should he excel, and, a space opens up this year or next.

if so, he has fulfilled his side of the bargain. now the celtics need the space.

finally, whether or not nader can reproduce these impressive numbers in the nba is the question. young looked very good in the dleague. in the nba? not so such.

p.s. good thread rollie. thanks for keeping nader on our collective radar. tp of course.  ;D
This is what I thought too, but now I think that is not quite a complete picture.  The Celtics still own rights to sign him since he is their draftee.  If he wants to sign somewhere else, C's have to give up those rights or try to sign him (most likely for more than another team can offer).  Hopefully someone smarter than me on these matters can confirm this.
Title: Re: nader scores 29 then 25
Post by: OhioGreen on January 15, 2017, 12:01:58 PM
Pretty sure that because he never signed a contract of any type with the C's, that they still retain his draft rights!
As far as his play, I have, and still believe he could be a rotation player in the league right now!  I think his current skills are greater than that of Jaylen Brown, though, without the upside.  A total waste having him in Maine.  Sure, if we were in TRUE contention for a title, that would be OK, but to delay his integration into this team for money purposes is ridiculous.
PICK A LANE! ;D
Title: Re: nader scores 29 then 25
Post by: Surferdad on January 15, 2017, 12:09:22 PM
Pretty sure that because he never signed a contract of any type with the C's, that they still retain his draft rights!
As far as his play, I have, and still believe he could be a rotation player in the league right now!  I think his current skills are greater than that of Jaylen Brown, though, without the upside.  A total waste having him in Maine.  Sure, if we were in TRUE contention for a title, that would be OK, but to delay his integration into this team for money purposes is ridiculous.
PICK A LANE! ;D
His integration is delayed not for money but for roster space.  To sign him to the roster, you have to lose somebody -- Young, Mickey, or Jackson most likely.
Title: Re: nader scores 29 then 25
Post by: rollie mass on January 15, 2017, 12:47:52 PM
next year with new collective bargaining rules we can sign two players beyond the roster to two way contracts and they can move freely up and back to boston -salary next year for red claw players up from 50,000 to 75,000-the two way would collect nba salary when playing for celtics

back to nader has a rj basketball type of IQ
,young could not take more than two dribbles with right hand

nader is stronger than young ,quicker first step ,better vertical,longer arms  and if you watch him in maine he is aggressive to the basket-good motor
and has nice form and touch on his shots,loves to use the glass -very little shake but nice hesitation-fade away on reverse pivot,euro step but prone to charges
-gets caught in air on kick outs leading to some bad passes,can be turnover prone but that is playing point forward
 he in my view would be a end of bench player now and he would play within himself and take what he gets and knock down open threes with consistency even close to 40+%--

he didn't sign a contract with celts but with red claws that was a concession he made for he felt good enough to go to camp and play in nba-
he turned down bigger money in europe-the celts retain his draft rights as a nba property he can not sign elsewhere
Title: Re: nader scores 29 then 25
Post by: rollie mass on January 15, 2017, 01:02:54 PM
jackson to me doesn't have any wiggle to his game almost like he is restricted by his muscle tone-incredible lift and good shooter------

next week there is a d league showcase in canada each team will play twice for the scouts and nba organizations as well as fans who have found event-it is outside of montreal-some of games a nba tv but i think red claws through facebook will show them live and on tape-
Title: Re: nader scores 29 then 25
Post by: SHAQATTACK on January 15, 2017, 01:47:37 PM
I'm one of " Naders Raiders"

Free the kid
Title: Re: nader scores 29 then 25
Post by: Eddie20 on January 15, 2017, 02:04:10 PM
Rollie, at best Nader becomes a rotational bench guy. I love the optimism, but these weekly Nader D-League hype threads are a bit much. For example, Mickey has career averages of 17.3 PPG, 10.1 RPG, and 4.1 BPG there. How's that translating?
Title: Re: nader scores 29 then 25
Post by: rollie mass on January 15, 2017, 02:40:41 PM
nader is not undersized for his position like mickey -mickey beasted as a shot blocker and played with rozier most of season-nader had a run in ncaa's ,then portmouth tournament all star and finished off  summer league as as a revelation-i went back and traced some of his tryouts and they loved his touch as he killed the shooting drills-
nader outplayed mickey in this years summer league and some people thought  he outplayed everybody but rozier
why should i stop expressing facts and my opinion from watching all his full games and after having watched young for two years and rj -who stunk up the d league
-nader recently scored 9 points but only played a few minutes and missed his next gamebut came back and scored 29
he also had a shoulder strain that had him miss some games but he has continually scored in the high 20's/low 30's
i prefer writing reading this, than" trade that one,trade this one" and all the rumors and games other posters play-
i put in the time have gone back and tracked the kid-he wasn't fazed  by speed at summer league
and was considered by some to outplayed all but rozier--this is a celtic board and he is a celtic draftee
,even as good bench player taken last  that-is a triumph
Title: Re: nader scores 29 then 25
Post by: Surferdad on January 15, 2017, 03:41:35 PM
Rollie, at best Nader becomes a rotational bench guy. I love the optimism, but these weekly Nader D-League hype threads are a bit much. For example, Mickey has career averages of 17.3 PPG, 10.1 RPG, and 4.1 BPG there. How's that translating?
Bit much for what?  I enjoy Rollie's posts about Nader, he is an intriguing prospect. Feel free to move on if the topic is not of interest.
Title: Re: nader scores 29 then 25
Post by: Androslav on January 15, 2017, 04:26:56 PM
Any wing with rotation potential is a good asset.
Who knows, maybe he is the one.
Title: abdel nader-d league first team all showcase
Post by: rollie mass on January 23, 2017, 03:35:51 AM
makes d league first team all showcase avg 26 points,5.5 rebounds,6.5 ast 49%fg 50% of threes
there were 22 teams playing 22games over 5 days in front of scouts and members of nba teams along with international scouts
jalen jones got honorable mention

just reporting  not promoting
Title: Re: abdel nader-d league first team all showcase
Post by: rollie mass on January 23, 2017, 05:57:51 AM
nader has made continual progress starting at tail end of college into ncaa's, then all portmouth tournament team only 69 invitees
,pre draft try outs then summer league,
 now a d league top 9  player and d league all showcase first team- he is shooting 40% from three d league and shot 50% from three in tournament
nader has an almost ambidextorus ability at rim that can't be taught along with a elite 7-1.5 wingspan that allows him to get his shots off against bigger players and a 30 inch standing jump

he is no rj hunter or james young in my opinion
-he is versatile as shooting guard or small forward and i think he will make the celtics roster next season and play better up in a more limited role
what do you guys think
Title: Re: abdel nader-d league first team all showcase
Post by: 2short on January 23, 2017, 06:58:30 AM
I think if this preseason was an open tryout i.e. No contracts involved Nader would have beat out Hunter and Young. 
Title: Re: abdel nader-d league first team all showcase
Post by: Surferdad on January 23, 2017, 07:55:03 AM
rollie, thanks for keeping us informed about Nader.  I am cautiously optimistic, but we've been burned so many times by guys looking good in D-league or International leagues, so I don't want to get my hopes up.

That said, I really like his ability to use both hands and his superior length.  Those are natural gifts that will always give him the edge.

Among our young prospects, he could be the best overall and should make the team next year.  IMO, D-Jax looks like "IT-lite", Yabusele has more to prove than just dominating Chinese league and Zizic appears to be a throwback big with little game outside the paint.
Title: Re: abdel nader-d league first team all showcase
Post by: The One on January 23, 2017, 08:52:18 AM
Thanks rollie!

It would be nice...but man, the odds are against him.

Let's all pull for him!!
Title: Re: abdel nader-d league first team all showcase
Post by: OhioGreen on January 23, 2017, 03:22:20 PM
I think that Nader is between the 8-10 best player in the Celtic organization RIGHT NOW!  If he had gotten the chance to be on the big club this year, it would be Smart/6, Olynyk/7, and between JJ and Nader for 8th!  I truly believe this!  Without DA's shenanigans with salary cap and roster flex, he would already be making his mark this year in Boston!
I guess it's Ainge's job to do, but it's a shame Nader, the team, and us fans had to suffer for it.  If Ainge and ownership hadn't had to put on the pretense that we could win a championship this season, Nader's career and the teams progress would be much farther along.
Both Jaylen Brown and Nader should have been playing HEAVY minutes this year!
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: spikelovetheCelts on January 23, 2017, 05:43:01 PM
 Adam Himmelsbach: Celtics draft pick Abdel Nader is the D-League player of the week after averaging 26.5 pts, 6.5 assists & 5.5 rebs at the D-League showcase.
– via Twitter AdamHimmelsbach
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: saltlover on January 23, 2017, 05:56:04 PM
Adam Himmelsbach: Celtics draft pick Abdel Nader is the D-League player of the week after averaging 26.5 pts, 6.5 assists & 5.5 rebs at the D-League showcase.
– via Twitter AdamHimmelsbach

But if you watched the games, you'd see his defense is James Young bad (unfortunately).
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: nickagneta on January 23, 2017, 06:28:47 PM
Adam Himmelsbach: Celtics draft pick Abdel Nader is the D-League player of the week after averaging 26.5 pts, 6.5 assists & 5.5 rebs at the D-League showcase.
– via Twitter AdamHimmelsbach

But if you watched the games, you'd see his defense is James Young bad (unfortunately).
I can't help but wonder if playing defense isn't stressed in the D-League or if the reason players don't come back from Maine playing better defense is simply because the players are bad defensive players and that is why they were in the D-League to begin with. I can't remember any Celtic that went to to Maine and came back playing better defense
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: Ilikesports17 on January 23, 2017, 06:31:03 PM
Adam Himmelsbach: Celtics draft pick Abdel Nader is the D-League player of the week after averaging 26.5 pts, 6.5 assists & 5.5 rebs at the D-League showcase.
– via Twitter AdamHimmelsbach

But if you watched the games, you'd see his defense is James Young bad (unfortunately).
I can't help but wonder if playing defense isn't stressed in the D-League or if the reason players don't come back from Maine playing better defense is simply because the players are bad offensive players and that is why they were in the D-League to begin with. I can't remember any Celtic that went to to Maine and came back playing better defense
Defense is not played in any way shape or form in the Dleague
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: saltlover on January 23, 2017, 06:50:41 PM
Adam Himmelsbach: Celtics draft pick Abdel Nader is the D-League player of the week after averaging 26.5 pts, 6.5 assists & 5.5 rebs at the D-League showcase.
– via Twitter AdamHimmelsbach

But if you watched the games, you'd see his defense is James Young bad (unfortunately).
I can't help but wonder if playing defense isn't stressed in the D-League or if the reason players don't come back from Maine playing better defense is simply because the players are bad offensive players and that is why they were in the D-League to begin with. I can't remember any Celtic that went to to Maine and came back playing better defense

Probably B, in my opinion.  In the case of Nader, I'd hope it's fixable.  Many of his (many) failures occurred from losing his man.  He'd watch the ball on the other side of the court, and not feel that his man had taken 2-3 steps away from him (or cut in front of him for a pass at the rim).  I'd think you can improve that skill to a point, but maybe not.  He just let his guy get open repeatedly due to lack of awareness
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: Diggles on January 23, 2017, 07:03:18 PM
Defense is key....   If you want to help a ball club learn to play D.  If not then you can stay in the d league or sit on the end of the bench like young.....   
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: Emmette Bryant on January 26, 2017, 12:38:06 PM
http://fansided.com/2017/01/26/boston-celtics-nba-draft-dleague-abdel-nader-maine/
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: rollie mass on January 26, 2017, 03:19:23 PM
nader 's left hand is so good and goes left so well -i had to hunt up a site that said he shoots right
i love his extended left handed layup of the backboard-he could actually become a deadly three point shooter from corners or on catch and shoot--his height,standing reach  and 7-1.5 wingspan are elie measurments and i will call his left hand elite-
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: oldtype on January 26, 2017, 03:28:20 PM
If we're lucky, could see him playing a big role next year as a poor man's Crowder.

When you break it down, Jae Crowder does exactly three things:

1) shoots threes

2) drives in a straight line if you close him out

3) defends three positions.

Nader looks like somebody who could do all of that as well, just not quite as well as Crowder.   That's pretty much the exact bench player that this team is missing.
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: fantankerous on January 26, 2017, 03:42:32 PM
If we're lucky, could see him playing a big role next year as a poor man's Crowder.

When you break it down, Jae Crowder does exactly three things:

1) shoots threes

2) drives in a straight line if you close him out

3) defends three positions.

Nader looks like somebody who could do all of that as well, just not quite as well as Crowder.   That's pretty much the exact bench player that this team is missing.

He can't currently defend his own position, let alone three.  Unless he improves substantially, he's not an NBA-caliber player.
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: oldtype on January 26, 2017, 03:45:07 PM
If we're lucky, could see him playing a big role next year as a poor man's Crowder.

When you break it down, Jae Crowder does exactly three things:

1) shoots threes

2) drives in a straight line if you close him out

3) defends three positions.

Nader looks like somebody who could do all of that as well, just not quite as well as Crowder.   That's pretty much the exact bench player that this team is missing.

He can't currently defend his own position, let alone three.  Unless he improves substantially, he's not an NBA-caliber player.

"could" do all of that.  Seems large enough to passably defend 4s and quick enough to passably defend 2s eventually.
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: saltlover on January 26, 2017, 03:52:31 PM
If we're lucky, could see him playing a big role next year as a poor man's Crowder.

When you break it down, Jae Crowder does exactly three things:

1) shoots threes

2) drives in a straight line if you close him out

3) defends three positions.

Nader looks like somebody who could do all of that as well, just not quite as well as Crowder.   That's pretty much the exact bench player that this team is missing.

He can't currently defend his own position, let alone three.  Unless he improves substantially, he's not an NBA-caliber player.

"could" do all of that.  Seems large enough to passably defend 4s and quick enough to passably defend 2s eventually.

He has no defensive feel.  If he watches the ball, he doesn't know what his man is doing behind him.  If he watches his man, he has no idea what's going on with the ball.  He can probably get a little better, but court awareness/vision is as much a talent as many other skills, and I don't know that he can get much better.  There is no way he can defend 2s.  He will get lost so much.

He will not be better than Crowder, ever.  I can see him having an NBA career, but not ever in the rotation of a good team.  His defense is that bad.
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: oldtype on January 26, 2017, 04:32:52 PM
If we're lucky, could see him playing a big role next year as a poor man's Crowder.

When you break it down, Jae Crowder does exactly three things:

1) shoots threes

2) drives in a straight line if you close him out

3) defends three positions.

Nader looks like somebody who could do all of that as well, just not quite as well as Crowder.   That's pretty much the exact bench player that this team is missing.

He can't currently defend his own position, let alone three.  Unless he improves substantially, he's not an NBA-caliber player.

"could" do all of that.  Seems large enough to passably defend 4s and quick enough to passably defend 2s eventually.

He has no defensive feel.  If he watches the ball, he doesn't know what his man is doing behind him.  If he watches his man, he has no idea what's going on with the ball.  He can probably get a little better, but court awareness/vision is as much a talent as many other skills, and I don't know that he can get much better.  There is no way he can defend 2s.  He will get lost so much.

He will not be better than Crowder, ever.  I can see him having an NBA career, but not ever in the rotation of a good team.  His defense is that bad.

I don't actually watch D-League games so I will defer if you do. 

That said, this is surprising information to me given that 1) all the articles refer to him as being a two-way player; 2) he had better defensive numbers than offensive numbers in college.
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: nickagneta on January 26, 2017, 04:40:13 PM
And let us not forget his turnovers. He is terrible at turning over the ball and had been since college. He has, both at Maine and in college, had more turnovers than assists. Is turniver percentage is incredibly high. That isnt good if you want to be an NBA rotational bench player, which is probably his ceiling.
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: saltlover on January 26, 2017, 04:47:31 PM
If we're lucky, could see him playing a big role next year as a poor man's Crowder.

When you break it down, Jae Crowder does exactly three things:

1) shoots threes

2) drives in a straight line if you close him out

3) defends three positions.

Nader looks like somebody who could do all of that as well, just not quite as well as Crowder.   That's pretty much the exact bench player that this team is missing.

He can't currently defend his own position, let alone three.  Unless he improves substantially, he's not an NBA-caliber player.

"could" do all of that.  Seems large enough to passably defend 4s and quick enough to passably defend 2s eventually.

He has no defensive feel.  If he watches the ball, he doesn't know what his man is doing behind him.  If he watches his man, he has no idea what's going on with the ball.  He can probably get a little better, but court awareness/vision is as much a talent as many other skills, and I don't know that he can get much better.  There is no way he can defend 2s.  He will get lost so much.

He will not be better than Crowder, ever.  I can see him having an NBA career, but not ever in the rotation of a good team.  His defense is that bad.

I don't actually watch D-League games so I will defer if you do. 

That said, this is surprising information to me given that 1) all the articles refer to him as being a two-way player; 2) he had better defensive numbers than offensive numbers in college.

I do watch some D-league.  His numbers look fine.  But you know how when James Young plays defense, he's lost most of the time?  Nader is the same way.  If he gets one steal a game, it won't remotely make up for the half-dozen wide open shots he gives up.  And I mean a half dozen in 8 minutes.  Offenses will target him.  It isn't an occasional error -- he just loses sight of what's not going on directly in front of him.

I remember a play from this past Saturday -- his man was on the block, and the ball on the other side of the court.  Nader cheated a little more into the paint.  I don't know why -- maybe for a rebound, maybe to play help defense.  His man just jogged around him and caught a pass at the rim for a wide-open layup.  Nader was still on the other side of the paint, helpless, guarding no one.

There were several plays where he just completely lost his man, by several feet, leading to open jumpers and undefended drives.  I think they attacked him 5 straight possessions at the start of the 3rd quarter.  If D-league offenses have target you as the weak link, it's going to be really tough up a level.
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: oldtype on January 26, 2017, 04:56:03 PM
And let us not forget his turnovers. He is terrible at turning over the ball and had been since college. He has, both at Maine and in college, had more turnovers than assists. Is turniver percentage is incredibly high. That isnt good if you want to be an NBA rotational bench player, which is probably his ceiling.

This I think could be less of an issue because he's going to be a 3-and-D roleplayer in the NBA.  He will basically never handle the ball.
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: rollie mass on January 26, 2017, 05:17:43 PM
i think its too early to judge at college he led his teams in steals  37 or 1.1 at iowa and at northern illinois 1.3 per -that i have read usually translates to good defense
 nader also had 23 blocks-his 7-1.5 wingspan helps in both those areas --at d league level he given assignments all over the place along with his teammates-
-morrison knows nader has got to work on d to make it on celtics-

his defense was bad,i think he was gassed because i never saw it like that in maine-i noticed lack of effort at times-i am too tired too go back and watch some red claw games looking at defense but going forward i will

Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: Redz on January 28, 2017, 11:45:35 AM
My father forwarded this article on Nader.  Good highlights of his array of moves. 

http://fansided.com/2017/01/26/boston-celtics-nba-draft-dleague-abdel-nader-maine/
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: ThePaintedArea on January 28, 2017, 12:11:06 PM
i think its too early to judge at college he led his teams in steals  37 or 1.1 at iowa and at northern illinois 1.3 per -that i have read usually translates to good defense...

According to Pelton steal rates are one of the things that translates to success in the NBA in general, not just to good defense.
Title: Re: Nader
Post by: saltlover on January 28, 2017, 12:35:03 PM
i think its too early to judge at college he led his teams in steals  37 or 1.1 at iowa and at northern illinois 1.3 per -that i have read usually translates to good defense...

According to Pelton steal rates are one of the things that translates to success in the NBA in general, not just to good defense.

Also, it is not a per game stat that translates, but steal percentage.  His was 1.9% his last season, which while not terrible, is truly nothing special (wasn't even top 10 in his conference.)
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: The One on March 01, 2017, 03:39:15 PM
Didn't see this mentioned anywhere...but Abdel is now the #2 prospect in the G-League.

http://dleague.nba.com/prospect-watch/

I think he has a good chance of being a solid rotation player on a title contender.



Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: BitterJim on March 01, 2017, 03:52:47 PM
Didn't see this mentioned anywhere...but Abdel is now the #2 prospect in the G-League.

http://dleague.nba.com/prospect-watch/

I think he has a good chance of being a solid rotation player on a title contender.

That prospect list is... odd (to say the least).  Quite a few ex-NBA players in there (like Jordan Crawford and Nate Robinson) which makes me wonder how they define a "prospect" (and how they rank them, for that matter, since in no way is 32 year old Nate Robinson a top 25 prospect)
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: The One on March 01, 2017, 04:09:33 PM
Didn't see this mentioned anywhere...but Abdel is now the #2 prospect in the G-League.

http://dleague.nba.com/prospect-watch/

I think he has a good chance of being a solid rotation player on a title contender.

That prospect list is... odd (to say the least).  Quite a few ex-NBA players in there (like Jordan Crawford and Nate Robinson) which makes me wonder how they define a "prospect" (and how they rank them, for that matter, since in no way is 32 year old Nate Robinson a top 25 prospect)

I know...it is weird.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: The One on March 01, 2017, 04:11:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfA454bXmM8

His February 2017 highlights.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 01, 2017, 04:14:40 PM
Didn't see this mentioned anywhere...but Abdel is now the #2 prospect in the G-League.

http://dleague.nba.com/prospect-watch/

I think he has a good chance of being a solid rotation player on a title contender.
solid rotation player on a title contender seems like a pretty big stretch.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: The One on March 01, 2017, 04:22:55 PM
Didn't see this mentioned anywhere...but Abdel is now the #2 prospect in the G-League.

http://dleague.nba.com/prospect-watch/

I think he has a good chance of being a solid rotation player on a title contender.
solid rotation player on a title contender seems like a pretty big stretch.

Really?

Top 9 player on a top 4 team...I mean...doesn't seem too out of this world.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: saltlover on March 01, 2017, 04:36:52 PM
Didn't see this mentioned anywhere...but Abdel is now the #2 prospect in the G-League.

http://dleague.nba.com/prospect-watch/

I think he has a good chance of being a solid rotation player on a title contender.
solid rotation player on a title contender seems like a pretty big stretch.

Really?

Top 9 player on a top 4 team...I mean...doesn't seem too out of this world.

It doesn't seem out of this world, but I think it depends on your definition of "good chance."  I wouldn't be shocked if he became a solid rotation player on a good team (as a tangent, I'd note that the difference between a top four team and a team in the 5-8 range tends to be the top 3-4 players on each squad, and not the 7-9 players), but I'd still say the greater likelihood is of a less auspicious outcome.

Still a fine player to have on the bench for a few seasons.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: nickagneta on March 01, 2017, 05:02:02 PM
Hasn't James Young and Jordan Mickey also dominated the D-League and been considered great prospects  because of it? I think I will wait before I jump to any conclusions based on those D-League prospect lists.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: chilidawg on March 01, 2017, 05:05:17 PM
His turnover rate, in a league that doesn't prioritize defense, is worrisome.  Other than that I've been impressed.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: mahcus smaht on March 01, 2017, 05:08:31 PM
Hasn't James Young and Jordan Mickey also dominated the D-League and been considered great prospects  because of it? I think I will wait before I jump to any conclusions based on those D-League prospect lists.
Two years ago, Im pretty sure an opposing D-league coach was quoted as saying that James Young was the best player hed ever seen in the d league over 8 years.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: kraidstar on March 01, 2017, 06:07:30 PM
Hasn't James Young and Jordan Mickey also dominated the D-League and been considered great prospects  because of it? I think I will wait before I jump to any conclusions based on those D-League prospect lists.
Two years ago, Im pretty sure an opposing D-league coach was quoted as saying that James Young was the best player hed ever seen in the d league over 8 years.

Well, that coach is an idiot. Most of Young's production in the D-league came off of open 3's.

He was never well-rounded, just a good shooter. Anyone who watched him in Portland should be able to see that.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: saltlover on March 01, 2017, 06:08:25 PM
Hasn't James Young and Jordan Mickey also dominated the D-League and been considered great prospects  because of it? I think I will wait before I jump to any conclusions based on those D-League prospect lists.
Two years ago, Im pretty sure an opposing D-league coach was quoted as saying that James Young was the best player hed ever seen in the d league over 8 years.

Well, that coach is an idiot. Most of Young's production in the D-league came off of open 3's.

He was never well-rounded, just a good shooter. Anyone who watched him in Portland should be able to see that.

Yeah, I've wondered what happened to that coach.  Does he still have a job in professional basketball?
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: kraidstar on March 01, 2017, 06:34:03 PM
Hasn't James Young and Jordan Mickey also dominated the D-League and been considered great prospects  because of it? I think I will wait before I jump to any conclusions based on those D-League prospect lists.
Two years ago, Im pretty sure an opposing D-league coach was quoted as saying that James Young was the best player hed ever seen in the d league over 8 years.

Well, that coach is an idiot. Most of Young's production in the D-league came off of open 3's.

He was never well-rounded, just a good shooter. Anyone who watched him in Portland should be able to see that.

Yeah, I've wondered what happened to that coach.  Does he still have a job in professional basketball?

Are you referring to Ainge pumping Young's tires? What do you expect, for him to say he's a scrub?

Opposing coaches routinely praised Young, I remembered hearing about it because I follow the D-league quite a bit. I even listen to the Claws radio broadcasts sometimes.

By D-league standards he was good, but our other prospects showed far more promise. Young was the classic D-league volume scorer. Major project.

Mickey/Nader/Rozier etc came in with much better-developed games. Whether or not that translates to long-term success remains to be seen.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: jambr380 on March 01, 2017, 06:35:18 PM
Jalen Jones and Georges-Hunt are also prospects in the top 10 from the Red Claws. I know it's nothing to be ecstatic about, but good to see we have some decent talent on that team (outside of the Jackson/Mickey call-ups/downs.

It's really too bad that the NBADL doesn't work more like Minor League baseball...said for the billionth time here.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: kraidstar on March 01, 2017, 06:41:20 PM
Jalen Jones and Georges-Hunt are also prospects in the top 10 from the Red Claws. I know it's nothing to be ecstatic about, but good to see we have some decent talent on that team (outside of the Jackson/Mickey call-ups/downs.

It's really too bad that the NBADL doesn't work more like Minor League baseball...said for the billionth time here.
Jones is solid. Exceptional athlete, can hit some 3's, but undersized as a PF and doesn't seem to have  a true position. Though in some ways that could be beneficial, as he can stretch the floor and is a threat to roll to the hoop for dunks. If he could improve his defensive efficiency, his versatility might land him a spot in the big leagues.


BTW I agree about the MLB thing. It is ridiculous.

Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: saltlover on March 01, 2017, 07:00:55 PM
Jalen Jones and Georges-Hunt are also prospects in the top 10 from the Red Claws. I know it's nothing to be ecstatic about, but good to see we have some decent talent on that team (outside of the Jackson/Mickey call-ups/downs.

It's really too bad that the NBADL doesn't work more like Minor League baseball...said for the billionth time here.

It'll be a step closer to that next year, but we'll have to wait for the next CBA at least to get it where it truly needs to be.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: nickagneta on March 01, 2017, 07:22:32 PM
Jalen Jones and Georges-Hunt are also prospects in the top 10 from the Red Claws. I know it's nothing to be ecstatic about, but good to see we have some decent talent on that team (outside of the Jackson/Mickey call-ups/downs.

It's really too bad that the NBADL doesn't work more like Minor League baseball...said for the billionth time here.

It'll be a step closer to that next year, but we'll have to wait for the next CBA at least to get it where it truly needs to be.
But will it ever be like MLB? In baseball even the top prospects have to usually go through years of minor league baseball learning their craft. You can probably go to just about any level of minor league baseball, watch a game and probably see one to three future MLB players and even some future superstars.

You will probably never see a future superstar in the NBADL. If you're lucky, you might catch a game where you might see a guy that might become a decent role player. The best talent do not learn their craft at the NBADL level, they learn it by playing minutes in the NBA. The talent level of the best of the best D-League  players and players in the NBA is still gigantic.

While I like what the new CBA did to allow parent NBA clubs the ability to have more young players on their rosters and integrate the NBADL with the NBA, I really don't see the D-League ever becoming a breeding ground for starter level NBA players. I just don't ever see it working like the MLB model.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: Eddie20 on November 22, 2017, 08:21:17 AM
Will Nader even make it on our roster through the season? I think getting rid of him is a plus in any deal as it opens up a roster spot and eliminates someone that doesn't contribute anything. 
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: csfansince60s on December 28, 2017, 09:04:41 PM
Just replied to a random thread to get something other than the game thread on the board.

Sad..
Sad...sad.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: Eddie20 on March 18, 2018, 10:47:50 PM
The 4 missed free throws were absolutely deflating. You can see it completely take the life out of our team.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: More Banners on March 18, 2018, 11:23:21 PM
Jalen Jones and Georges-Hunt are also prospects in the top 10 from the Red Claws. I know it's nothing to be ecstatic about, but good to see we have some decent talent on that team (outside of the Jackson/Mickey call-ups/downs.

It's really too bad that the NBADL doesn't work more like Minor League baseball...said for the billionth time here.

It'll be a step closer to that next year, but we'll have to wait for the next CBA at least to get it where it truly needs to be.
But will it ever be like MLB? In baseball even the top prospects have to usually go through years of minor league baseball learning their craft. You can probably go to just about any level of minor league baseball, watch a game and probably see one to three future MLB players and even some future superstars.

You will probably never see a future superstar in the NBADL. If you're lucky, you might catch a game where you might see a guy that might become a decent role player. The best talent do not learn their craft at the NBADL level, they learn it by playing minutes in the NBA. The talent level of the best of the best D-League  players and players in the NBA is still gigantic.

While I like what the new CBA did to allow parent NBA clubs the ability to have more young players on their rosters and integrate the NBADL with the NBA, I really don't see the D-League ever becoming a breeding ground for starter level NBA players. I just don't ever see it working like the MLB model.

Pretty much agree that top talent seems able to go right up to the NBA, straight from high school in some cases.

But do teams still draft project players?  2-way deals seems to enable and encourage this, but shorter contracts don't. Current cap rules favor rosters with rookie scale players who can play, which discourages drafting projects.

Perk was a high school project role player who won a title as a starter, but that doesn't seem to happen much.  We had multiple mid firsts at the time as well, were going nowhere fast, and big stiffs were in demand.   Teams try not to suck so long that they have time to carry developmental players. The d league should be a place for pro teams to bring along the Perks, but overseas pays and is winning out.

I'd consider Rozier, who was a d league regular as a rookie, as the newest template for developing guys using the minor affiliate. But an NBA player shouldn't be in the D league long.

What's the future for roster construction and development?  The Spurs seem to grab NBA role players out of nowhere. Have they been using the Austin Toro's much?
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: GreenEnvy on March 19, 2018, 01:43:45 AM
The 4 missed free throws were absolutely deflating. You can see it completely take the life out of our team.

Brutal.

He had to have either set, or at the very least tied, a record of four missed FT on the same possession. I can’t think of a realistic scenario where a player can get 5 free throws (and then miss every single one).
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: Granath on March 19, 2018, 07:25:32 AM
Yet Nader was tied for the best plus/minus of anyone who played more than 5 minutes of that game.

It wasn't the 4 free throws that cost the game. It was the inability of anyone to even slow Davis down. It would have been nice to have Horford hit a couple of 3s to open up the defense. Morris and Monroe just simply were killed by Davis, Mirotic and Diallo (combined 67 points, 27 rebounds). Monroe was -25 in 26 minutes. Morris was -19 in 30. That's dreadful.

Complain about Nader all you want but he's not the reason the team lost.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: More Banners on March 19, 2018, 08:27:07 AM
Yet Nader was tied for the best plus/minus of anyone who played more than 5 minutes of that game.

It wasn't the 4 free throws that cost the game. It was the inability of anyone to even slow Davis down. It would have been nice to have Horford hit a couple of 3s to open up the defense. Morris and Monroe just simply were killed by Davis, Mirotic and Diallo (combined 67 points, 27 rebounds). Monroe was -25 in 26 minutes. Morris was -19 in 30. That's dreadful.

Complain about Nader all you want but he's not the reason the team lost.

Yeah well he still sucks.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: Eddie20 on March 19, 2018, 08:43:32 AM
Yet Nader was tied for the best plus/minus of anyone who played more than 5 minutes of that game.

It wasn't the 4 free throws that cost the game. It was the inability of anyone to even slow Davis down. It would have been nice to have Horford hit a couple of 3s to open up the defense. Morris and Monroe just simply were killed by Davis, Mirotic and Diallo (combined 67 points, 27 rebounds). Monroe was -25 in 26 minutes. Morris was -19 in 30. That's dreadful.

Complain about Nader all you want but he's not the reason the team lost.

Completely disagree. That was a momentum killer. We were down 6 when Nader went to the line with the ability to cut the Pelicans lead to 2. Instead, he misses all 4 and the Pelicans go on a 19-5 run over the next 5:55 to push their lead to 20.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: kozlodoev on March 19, 2018, 08:47:26 AM
Yet Nader was tied for the best plus/minus of anyone who played more than 5 minutes of that game.
Yeah, that's in case you needed another prime example of why plus-minus is a worthless stat.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: Big333223 on March 19, 2018, 09:18:44 AM
I don't understand the amount of attention Nader gets from some on this board. He was the 58th pick in his draft, is an NBA rookie, and making about 1% of the salary cap. He's not a great or even good player right now but every time I watch him he plays hard, stays engaged on defense and doesn't disrupt the offense. He's no star-in-the-making but I don't see any reason he can't grow into a reliable bench wing.

Over these last 3 games where he's had to step up, I though he's looked ok (going 2-8 at the line last night notwithstanding).
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: chilidawg on March 19, 2018, 09:37:24 AM
I don't understand the amount of attention Nader gets from some on this board. He was the 58th pick in his draft, is an NBA rookie, and making about 1% of the salary cap. He's not a great or even good player right now but every time I watch him he plays hard, stays engaged on defense and doesn't disrupt the offense. He's no star-in-the-making but I don't see any reason he can't grow into a reliable bench wing.

Over these last 3 games where he's had to step up, I though he's looked ok (going 2-8 at the line last night notwithstanding).

15th guy on the roster, pushed into a role because we have so many injuries.  The over-reaction to some missed free throws is ridiculous, but unfortunately all too in character for many on this board.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: kozlodoev on March 19, 2018, 10:11:47 AM
I don't understand the amount of attention Nader gets from some on this board. He was the 58th pick in his draft, is an NBA rookie, and making about 1% of the salary cap. He's not a great or even good player right now but every time I watch him he plays hard, stays engaged on defense and doesn't disrupt the offense. He's no star-in-the-making but I don't see any reason he can't grow into a reliable bench wing.

Over these last 3 games where he's had to step up, I though he's looked ok (going 2-8 at the line last night notwithstanding).
15th guy on the roster, pushed into a role because we have so many injuries.  The over-reaction to some missed free throws is ridiculous, but unfortunately all too in character for many on this board.
Given that every time I've seen Nader play, he looks like he lacks the requisite agility and skill to play in the NBA, he could have at least made a couple of free throws. He's the 15th man on an NBA roster, not a weekend warrior at the local YMCA.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: Eddie20 on March 19, 2018, 10:18:39 AM
I don't understand the amount of attention Nader gets from some on this board. He was the 58th pick in his draft, is an NBA rookie, and making about 1% of the salary cap. He's not a great or even good player right now but every time I watch him he plays hard, stays engaged on defense and doesn't disrupt the offense. He's no star-in-the-making but I don't see any reason he can't grow into a reliable bench wing.

Over these last 3 games where he's had to step up, I though he's looked ok (going 2-8 at the line last night notwithstanding).
15th guy on the roster, pushed into a role because we have so many injuries.  The over-reaction to some missed free throws is ridiculous, but unfortunately all too in character for many on this board.
Given that every time I've seen Nader play, he looks like he lacks the requisite agility and skill to play in the NBA, he could have at least made a couple of free throws. He's the 15th man on an NBA roster, not a weekend warrior at the local YMCA.

So true. Nader apologists think it's okay for him to be abysmal because he's the 15th guy on the roster.

It's unfortunate that we are stuck giving minutes to the Trash Brothers (Nader and Semi) when we could've filled those spots with veteran players who could help us win now.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: kozlodoev on March 19, 2018, 10:33:09 AM
I don't understand the amount of attention Nader gets from some on this board. He was the 58th pick in his draft, is an NBA rookie, and making about 1% of the salary cap. He's not a great or even good player right now but every time I watch him he plays hard, stays engaged on defense and doesn't disrupt the offense. He's no star-in-the-making but I don't see any reason he can't grow into a reliable bench wing.

Over these last 3 games where he's had to step up, I though he's looked ok (going 2-8 at the line last night notwithstanding).
15th guy on the roster, pushed into a role because we have so many injuries.  The over-reaction to some missed free throws is ridiculous, but unfortunately all too in character for many on this board.
Given that every time I've seen Nader play, he looks like he lacks the requisite agility and skill to play in the NBA, he could have at least made a couple of free throws. He's the 15th man on an NBA roster, not a weekend warrior at the local YMCA.

So true. Nader apologists think it's okay for him to be abysmal because he's the 15th guy on the roster.

It's unfortunate that we are stuck giving minutes to the Trash Brothers (Nader and Semi) when we could've filled those spots with veteran players who could help us win now.
Here's a short illustrative example on roster building.

10th-15th men on this year's Boston Celtics (based on total mins played): Ojeleye, Larkin, Nader, Monroe, Yabusele, (random G-League dude).

10th-15th men on your 2007-2008 Celtics: Powe, Cassell, PJ Brown, Scalabrine, Pollard, Pruitt.

I sense a bit of discrepancy in terms of talent and experience there.

Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: Big333223 on March 19, 2018, 10:37:49 AM
I don't understand the amount of attention Nader gets from some on this board. He was the 58th pick in his draft, is an NBA rookie, and making about 1% of the salary cap. He's not a great or even good player right now but every time I watch him he plays hard, stays engaged on defense and doesn't disrupt the offense. He's no star-in-the-making but I don't see any reason he can't grow into a reliable bench wing.

Over these last 3 games where he's had to step up, I though he's looked ok (going 2-8 at the line last night notwithstanding).
15th guy on the roster, pushed into a role because we have so many injuries.  The over-reaction to some missed free throws is ridiculous, but unfortunately all too in character for many on this board.
Given that every time I've seen Nader play, he looks like he lacks the requisite agility and skill to play in the NBA, he could have at least made a couple of free throws. He's the 15th man on an NBA roster, not a weekend warrior at the local YMCA.

So true. Nader apologists think it's okay for him to be abysmal because he's the 15th guy on the roster.

It's unfortunate that we are stuck giving minutes to the Trash Brothers (Nader and Semi) when we could've filled those spots with veteran players who could help us win now.

I don't think it makes me an apologist to say he's not good but shows the potential to get better.

Being the 15th man doesn't make it ok that he isn't that good yet but it should adjust expectations. For some reason though, among some on this board, he can do no right. Just setting foot on the floor elicits complaints in game threads even when he's playing well. It makes no sense to me given his actual position on the team hierarchy.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: kozlodoev on March 19, 2018, 10:40:15 AM
I don't think it makes me an apologist to say he's not good but shows the potential to get better.
That's the point, he doesn't. He's slow, gangly, doesn't have great handles, has the slowest release ever, and (as evidenced by last night) buckles spectacularly under pressure.

He's also 24, which in NBA terms means he's close to a finished product. Let's cut the positive psychology nonsense and call a spade a spade.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: Big333223 on March 19, 2018, 10:51:36 AM
I don't think it makes me an apologist to say he's not good but shows the potential to get better.
That's the point, he doesn't. He's slow, gangly, doesn't have great handles, has the slowest release ever, and (as evidenced by last night) buckles spectacularly under pressure.

He's also 24, which in NBA terms means he's close to a finished product. Let's cut the positive psychology nonsense and call a spade a spade.

It's nonsense to think that someone who's only played 36 NBA games can get better?
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: Eddie20 on March 19, 2018, 10:56:10 AM
I don't think it makes me an apologist to say he's not good but shows the potential to get better.
That's the point, he doesn't. He's slow, gangly, doesn't have great handles, has the slowest release ever, and (as evidenced by last night) buckles spectacularly under pressure.

He's also 24, which in NBA terms means he's close to a finished product. Let's cut the positive psychology nonsense and call a spade a spade.

That's the issue. His upside is so limited because of his age. I have no issue sacrificing a spot for a young player with upside, but that's not Nader. Not only does he have marginal athleticism (particularly his lateral quickness), but he doesn't have one skill (shooting, passing, defense, etc.) that is even above average.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: kozlodoev on March 19, 2018, 10:57:44 AM
I don't think it makes me an apologist to say he's not good but shows the potential to get better.
That's the point, he doesn't. He's slow, gangly, doesn't have great handles, has the slowest release ever, and (as evidenced by last night) buckles spectacularly under pressure.

He's also 24, which in NBA terms means he's close to a finished product. Let's cut the positive psychology nonsense and call a spade a spade.

It's nonsense to think that someone who's only played 36 NBA games can get better?
Many folks around here seem to think that improvement is more or less a given if you're young or inexperienced. It isn't.

Based on what I see from Nader, he's unlikely to become much better than what he is. A 24-year old with 1.5 years of pro experience isn't magically going to develop quick release, foot speed, or ball handling. Or grow 2 inches and play PF. Sometimes a spade is just a spade and that's ok.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: chilidawg on March 19, 2018, 11:03:05 AM
I don't think it makes me an apologist to say he's not good but shows the potential to get better.
That's the point, he doesn't. He's slow, gangly, doesn't have great handles, has the slowest release ever, and (as evidenced by last night) buckles spectacularly under pressure.

He's also 24, which in NBA terms means he's close to a finished product. Let's cut the positive psychology nonsense and call a spade a spade.

Not really.  He didn't get minutes in college until he was a junior/senior, so he's "young" in terms of basketball experience.  One year in the D League.  Most guys peak at around 28.  Some guys are late bloomers.

I don't know that he'll get better, but I trust the judgement of Stevens and Ainge, who see him every in practice and have a far better idea of whether he's improving or not.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: tonydelk on March 19, 2018, 11:06:34 AM
I don't think it makes me an apologist to say he's not good but shows the potential to get better.
That's the point, he doesn't. He's slow, gangly, doesn't have great handles, has the slowest release ever, and (as evidenced by last night) buckles spectacularly under pressure.

He's also 24, which in NBA terms means he's close to a finished product. Let's cut the positive psychology nonsense and call a spade a spade.

It's nonsense to think that someone who's only played 36 NBA games can get better?
Many folks around here seem to think that improvement is more or less a given if you're young or inexperienced. It isn't.

Based on what I see from Nader, he's unlikely to become much better than what he is. A 24-year old with 1.5 years of pro experience isn't magically going to develop quick release, foot speed, or ball handling. Or grow 2 inches and play PF. Sometimes a spade is just a spade.

Nader will not be on the team next year.  He is a fringe NBA player.  Not a fan, not impressed and do not think he will ever be a rotational player.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: kozlodoev on March 19, 2018, 11:12:43 AM
I don't think it makes me an apologist to say he's not good but shows the potential to get better.
That's the point, he doesn't. He's slow, gangly, doesn't have great handles, has the slowest release ever, and (as evidenced by last night) buckles spectacularly under pressure.

He's also 24, which in NBA terms means he's close to a finished product. Let's cut the positive psychology nonsense and call a spade a spade.

Not really.  He didn't get minutes in college until he was a junior/senior, so he's "young" in terms of basketball experience.  One year in the D League.  Most guys peak at around 28.  Some guys are late bloomers.

I don't know that he'll get better, but I trust the judgement of Stevens and Ainge, who see him every in practice and have a far better idea of whether he's improving or not.
Yes, really. At that age, your body type isn't going to change drastically, and things like basic skills and muscle memory aren't mysteriously going to materialize just because  you missed on the time when you should have been developing him.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: Big333223 on March 19, 2018, 11:33:58 AM
I don't think it makes me an apologist to say he's not good but shows the potential to get better.
That's the point, he doesn't. He's slow, gangly, doesn't have great handles, has the slowest release ever, and (as evidenced by last night) buckles spectacularly under pressure.

He's also 24, which in NBA terms means he's close to a finished product. Let's cut the positive psychology nonsense and call a spade a spade.

Not really.  He didn't get minutes in college until he was a junior/senior, so he's "young" in terms of basketball experience.  One year in the D League.  Most guys peak at around 28.  Some guys are late bloomers.

I don't know that he'll get better, but I trust the judgement of Stevens and Ainge, who see him every in practice and have a far better idea of whether he's improving or not.
Yes, really. At that age, your body type isn't going to change drastically, and things like basic skills and muscle memory aren't mysteriously going to materialize just because  you missed on the time when you should have been developing him.

What you're saying is simply not true. Lots of players improve after they're 24.

Manu Ginobili was a 25 year old rookie who averaged 7.6 ppg and made big improvements in the 2 yeas after. Steve Nash wasn't a full time starter until he was 26 and didn't have his best season until he was 31. Victor Oladipo looks like a different player from last season (when he was 24) to this season. Gordon Hayward improved his efficiency numbers across the board from his age 25 season to his age 26 season. Those are just a few examples off the top of my head.

Players develop at different rates and different ages. This is not to say that Nader will definitely get better, only that there is no reason to dismiss him after just 36 NBA games. Your assertion that player don't get better after 24 years old has no basis.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: More Banners on March 19, 2018, 12:02:49 PM
I don't think it makes me an apologist to say he's not good but shows the potential to get better.
That's the point, he doesn't. He's slow, gangly, doesn't have great handles, has the slowest release ever, and (as evidenced by last night) buckles spectacularly under pressure.

He's also 24, which in NBA terms means he's close to a finished product. Let's cut the positive psychology nonsense and call a spade a spade.

Not really.  He didn't get minutes in college until he was a junior/senior, so he's "young" in terms of basketball experience.  One year in the D League.  Most guys peak at around 28.  Some guys are late bloomers.

I don't know that he'll get better, but I trust the judgement of Stevens and Ainge, who see him every in practice and have a far better idea of whether he's improving or not.
Yes, really. At that age, your body type isn't going to change drastically, and things like basic skills and muscle memory aren't mysteriously going to materialize just because  you missed on the time when you should have been developing him.

What you're saying is simply not true. Lots of players improve after they're 24.

Manu Ginobili was a 25 year old rookie who averaged 7.6 ppg and made big improvements in the 2 yeas after. Steve Nash wasn't a full time starter until he was 26 and didn't have his best season until he was 31. Victor Oladipo looks like a different player from last season (when he was 24) to this season. Gordon Hayward improved his efficiency numbers across the board from his age 25 season to his age 26 season. Those are just a few examples off the top of my head.

Players develop at different rates and different ages. This is not to say that Nader will definitely get better, only that there is no reason to dismiss him after just 36 NBA games. Your assertion that player don't get better after 24 years old has no basis.

Yeah well he still sucks.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: blink on March 19, 2018, 12:19:25 PM
I don't understand the amount of attention Nader gets from some on this board. He was the 58th pick in his draft, is an NBA rookie, and making about 1% of the salary cap. He's not a great or even good player right now but every time I watch him he plays hard, stays engaged on defense and doesn't disrupt the offense. He's no star-in-the-making but I don't see any reason he can't grow into a reliable bench wing.

Over these last 3 games where he's had to step up, I though he's looked ok (going 2-8 at the line last night notwithstanding).

15th guy on the roster, pushed into a role because we have so many injuries.  The over-reaction to some missed free throws is ridiculous, but unfortunately all too in character for many on this board.

This 100%.  Blaming Nader for the loss yesterday is missing the forest for the trees.  We don't have Kylie, Jaylen, Smart, Theis, Gordon....so obviously it is Naders fault when we lose. Smh

If Nader is the worst player to ever wear a C's uniform then why are you all expecting him to win games for us when we are this short handed?  Why don't you blame everything on Semi as well, as it is his first year in the NBA as well and he hasn't single handedly won games for us before?

All this complaining about Nader is misdirected.  If Nader was completely useless wouldn't Brad and Danny have already waived him and picked up someone else?  I am getting tired of people bashing players that give effort and do their best.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: ChillyWilly on March 19, 2018, 12:33:49 PM
We have half our team out and we're going to bag on a fringe NBA player because he's been thrusted into the rotation? I felt bad for the kid when he missed those free throws you could tell the moment was too big for him. Each one he missed he felt his NBA career getting cut short.

These fringe guys have very little room for error because they get very few minutes to prove they belong. He's a hard worker and is being rewarded for such and I like that about Brad's system if you work hard you get your opportunity.

I'll never bag on someone who works hard but things didn't fall their way, it happens in every aspect of life not just basketball.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: CFAN38 on March 19, 2018, 12:39:21 PM
With the luxury tax the Cs are going to have Nader level players at the end of the bench for years to come. I tried to figure out the cap implications for next year in this post http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=95362.msg2460267#msg2460267

My assumption is that Nader will be the first of a long line of players who play one year in Maine then get a very team friendly (multi year non-guaranteed) deal from the Cs the following year. I suspect at least one if not both of the current 2 way contract guys will get similar offers this off-season. These types of players and contracts are good for cost control, roster flexibility, and create continuity with the Red-claws.     
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: kraidstar on March 19, 2018, 01:07:22 PM
The kid is a rookie and is pressing, for God's sake. He just got into the league, it's normal. You can see by his body language he is frustrated with his play because he expects to be better. But he's facing a daunting learning curve.

Remember Bradley and Rozier?

I watched Nader play a ton in Maine. His problem with the C's isn't his athleticism or his skill. It's his indecisiveness, he looks afraid to make mistakes. In Maine he was playing without thinking, just like Rozier did in his stints for the Red Claws.

He's not a stiff like James young who lacks skill and intelligence. He just has rookie nerves.

He will improve. Doesn't mean he'll ever be good, but with his size and 3-point potential and overall OK skill set he could be a bench player in this league.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: kozlodoev on March 19, 2018, 01:13:16 PM
I watched Nader play a ton in Maine. His problem with the C's isn't his athleticism or his skill. It's his indecisiveness, he looks afraid to make mistakes. In Maine he was playing without thinking, just like Rozier did in his stints for the Red Claws.
His problem is that playing vs NBA defenders is not quite the cone drill that the G-League is.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: kozlodoev on March 19, 2018, 01:15:06 PM
What you're saying is simply not true. Lots of players improve after they're 24.
"Lots of players" don't. Some players may (because it's statistically implausible to say that none do). But expecting that Nader will is probably closer to expecting to win the lottery than it is to business as usual.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: Big333223 on March 19, 2018, 01:29:50 PM
What you're saying is simply not true. Lots of players improve after they're 24.
"Lots of players" don't. Some players may (because it's statistically implausible to say that none do). But expecting that Nader will is probably closer to expecting to win the lottery than it is to business as usual.

No on is "expecting" Nader to get better. He may not. But there are a ton of examples of players who get better after they're 24, especially when they were older rookies. There's just no basis for your statement that it doesn't happen much. It happens all the time.

EDIT: I already named a few but a few more players that definitely improved after they were 24 years old: Aron Baynes, Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder, Isaiah Thomas, Brandon Bass, and Jameer Nelson. You can also throw in Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, and Ray Allen as guys who continued to get better and had their best seasons well after 24. And that's just looking at recent Celtics without diving too deep.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: hpantazo on March 19, 2018, 01:48:41 PM
What you're saying is simply not true. Lots of players improve after they're 24.
"Lots of players" don't. Some players may (because it's statistically implausible to say that none do). But expecting that Nader will is probably closer to expecting to win the lottery than it is to business as usual.

I'd say most players improve after the age of 24. Its just a question of how much.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: CoachBo on March 19, 2018, 01:55:35 PM
The kid is a rookie and is pressing, for God's sake. He just got into the league, it's normal. You can see by his body language he is frustrated with his play because he expects to be better. But he's facing a daunting learning curve.

Remember Bradley and Rozier?

I watched Nader play a ton in Maine. His problem with the C's isn't his athleticism or his skill. It's his indecisiveness, he looks afraid to make mistakes. In Maine he was playing without thinking, just like Rozier did in his stints for the Red Claws.

He's not a stiff like James young who lacks skill and intelligence. He just has rookie nerves.

He will improve. Doesn't mean he'll ever be good, but with his size and 3-point potential and overall OK skill set he could be a bench player in this league.

"He's pressing" was an excuse I used to hear ALL the time from parents whose kids just weren't any good.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: csfansince60s on March 19, 2018, 02:00:10 PM
If he “choked” because he felt the squeeze of missing consecutive shots in a tight game, he needs to be buried before he even gets a glimpse of any bright playoff lights.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: gift on March 19, 2018, 02:07:38 PM
I'm on record several times insisting Nader could be like a Danny Green in the nba.

I'm officially done with that projection. It's not just the last game. I don't think his brain moves at nba speed. In order for Nader to be like a Danny Green, he needs to be ahead of plays. Not only is he not ahead of plays, he is behind. He's even mentally behind plays where he is physically dictating the action, somehow.

I might feel differently if he was a 19 or 20 year old rookie. He'll be 25 before the start of next season.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: ozgod on March 19, 2018, 02:30:04 PM
Not sure what everyone expected. He's a G-leaguer who is struggling to make it in the NBA. Because of that he's probably putting a lot of pressure on himself to succeed and it's inhibiting his ability to execute. Poise under pressure is something that needs to be learned. He will be better for the experience. He works hard but has a limited skillset. Whether he will improve enough to be a viable rotation player is yet to be seen. But let's look to T-Roze as a benchmark. Nader and Terry's first seasons compared:

Code: [Select]
Per Game
Rk Player From To G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% eFG% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1 Abdel Nader 2018 2018 36 0 10.3 1.0 2.9 .359 0.6 1.4 .385 0.5 1.4 .333 .456 0.6 0.9 .606 0.3 1.2 1.4 0.6 0.3 0.2 0.7 0.9 3.2
2 Terry Rozier 2016 2016 39 0 8.0 0.7 2.7 .274 0.2 0.7 .222 0.6 2.0 .291 .302 0.2 0.3 .800 0.6 1.0 1.6 0.9 0.2 0.0 0.5 0.6 1.8

Advanced
Rk Player From To G MP PER TS% 3PAr FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% OWS DWS WS WS/48 OBPM DBPM BPM VORP
1 Abdel Nader 2018 2018 36 370 6.5 .485 .505 .320 2.7 12.5 7.7 7.8 1.2 1.4 17.0 17.1 -0.4 0.5 0.1 .019 -4.7 0.0 -4.7 -0.3
2 Terry Rozier 2016 2016 39 311 5.0 .326 .255 .094 8.1 13.5 10.8 16.5 0.9 0.3 14.7 17.7 -0.6 0.3 -0.3 -0.047 -5.9 -0.8 -6.6 -0.4

Per 100 Possessions
Rk Player From To G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS ORtg DRtg
1 Abdel Nader 2018 2018 36 0 370 5.0 13.9 .359 2.7 7.0 .385 2.3 6.9 .333 2.7 4.5 .606 1.2 5.8 7.0 2.7 1.2 0.8 3.2 4.6 15.4 90 105
2 Terry Rozier 2016 2016 39 0 311 4.5 16.6 .274 0.9 4.2 .222 3.6 12.4 .291 1.3 1.6 .800 3.8 6.1 9.9 5.8 0.9 0.2 3.0 3.6 11.3 81 107

Set aside the fact that both their numbers are 15th man numbers for now. Nader's numbers are actually better than Terry's for the most part. Does this mean that 3 years from now we can expect Rozier-type numbers from Abdel? No. But I wouldn't be too quick to write him off. He's not a guy we want to rely on to win a game, that's why we're paying other players a lot more than him. He's there to play some minutes in garbage time situations until it becomes clearer that he won't improve, in which case he can be jettisoned.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: tstorey_97 on March 19, 2018, 02:58:36 PM
Thanks for doing the breakdown on Nader/Rozier stats....TP, sir.

Both very different players obviously, but, Nader has only gotten steady minutes over the last what? Four weeks? I suggest it takes time to gain something close to the confidence needed for a player to execute "his game."

Nader is an outside shooter with slasher skills. He is not a great defender, but, with time could be average in the league as he has size.

His handles are "poor to fair with upside", but, he ain't no Kyrie Irving.

Ultimately, he comes in and shoots threes and makes a couple of drives while hustling back on defense and being an "evergy guy."

Occasionally, once established as a rotation player, Nader will "have a big game" and be king of the bench for the night.

If Ainge has his contract right? Nader stays and gets minutes during injury plagues and on back to backs.

Rozier has made his rookie money on defensive hustle an rebounding. Nader has to avoid missing 16 freaking foul shots in a freaking row...but, ulitmately has a chance as a bencher in Boston because the Celtics can't score and Abdel can...one of these days maybe sorta.

I feel better now as I've been nauseous sibnce watching him miss more foul shots in two minutes than any other player in NBA history. Let's just say that he's gotten that out of the way and can move on.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: nickagneta on March 19, 2018, 02:58:38 PM
Wow, these ideas that highly talented and physically gifted players developing or coming into the league late and becoming something, like Hayward, Oladipo, Ginobili, Nash, Bradley etc, means Nader will or could are just wrong. Those players had great raw talent and or physical gifts.

Nader has neither. Sometimes a frog is just a frog. Not every frog turns into a prince.

I would give Yabusele and Ojeleye better chances to succeed in this league over Nader simply because of the raw physical gifts they possess. I just don't see Nader making it in this league.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: kraidstar on March 19, 2018, 03:46:57 PM
The kid is a rookie and is pressing, for God's sake. He just got into the league, it's normal. You can see by his body language he is frustrated with his play because he expects to be better. But he's facing a daunting learning curve.

Remember Bradley and Rozier?

I watched Nader play a ton in Maine. His problem with the C's isn't his athleticism or his skill. It's his indecisiveness, he looks afraid to make mistakes. In Maine he was playing without thinking, just like Rozier did in his stints for the Red Claws.

He's not a stiff like James young who lacks skill and intelligence. He just has rookie nerves.

He will improve. Doesn't mean he'll ever be good, but with his size and 3-point potential and overall OK skill set he could be a bench player in this league.

"He's pressing" was an excuse I used to hear ALL the time from parents whose kids just weren't any good.

All I can say is I'm glad Brad is the coach and not you.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: Eddie20 on March 19, 2018, 04:04:00 PM
Not sure what everyone expected. He's a G-leaguer who is struggling to make it in the NBA. Because of that he's probably putting a lot of pressure on himself to succeed and it's inhibiting his ability to execute. Poise under pressure is something that needs to be learned. He will be better for the experience. He works hard but has a limited skillset. Whether he will improve enough to be a viable rotation player is yet to be seen. But let's look to T-Roze as a benchmark. Nader and Terry's first seasons compared:

Code: [Select]
Per Game
Rk Player From To G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% eFG% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1 Abdel Nader 2018 2018 36 0 10.3 1.0 2.9 .359 0.6 1.4 .385 0.5 1.4 .333 .456 0.6 0.9 .606 0.3 1.2 1.4 0.6 0.3 0.2 0.7 0.9 3.2
2 Terry Rozier 2016 2016 39 0 8.0 0.7 2.7 .274 0.2 0.7 .222 0.6 2.0 .291 .302 0.2 0.3 .800 0.6 1.0 1.6 0.9 0.2 0.0 0.5 0.6 1.8

Advanced
Rk Player From To G MP PER TS% 3PAr FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% OWS DWS WS WS/48 OBPM DBPM BPM VORP
1 Abdel Nader 2018 2018 36 370 6.5 .485 .505 .320 2.7 12.5 7.7 7.8 1.2 1.4 17.0 17.1 -0.4 0.5 0.1 .019 -4.7 0.0 -4.7 -0.3
2 Terry Rozier 2016 2016 39 311 5.0 .326 .255 .094 8.1 13.5 10.8 16.5 0.9 0.3 14.7 17.7 -0.6 0.3 -0.3 -0.047 -5.9 -0.8 -6.6 -0.4

Per 100 Possessions
Rk Player From To G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS ORtg DRtg
1 Abdel Nader 2018 2018 36 0 370 5.0 13.9 .359 2.7 7.0 .385 2.3 6.9 .333 2.7 4.5 .606 1.2 5.8 7.0 2.7 1.2 0.8 3.2 4.6 15.4 90 105
2 Terry Rozier 2016 2016 39 0 311 4.5 16.6 .274 0.9 4.2 .222 3.6 12.4 .291 1.3 1.6 .800 3.8 6.1 9.9 5.8 0.9 0.2 3.0 3.6 11.3 81 107

Set aside the fact that both their numbers are 15th man numbers for now. Nader's numbers are actually better than Terry's for the most part. Does this mean that 3 years from now we can expect Rozier-type numbers from Abdel? No. But I wouldn't be too quick to write him off. He's not a guy we want to rely on to win a game, that's why we're paying other players a lot more than him. He's there to play some minutes in garbage time situations until it becomes clearer that he won't improve, in which case he can be jettisoned.

Why is Rozier a benchmark when Rozier was 21, while Nader is turning 25 in September. You don't see the problem with that comparison?
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: kozlodoev on March 19, 2018, 04:06:14 PM
With the luxury tax the Cs are going to have Nader level players at the end of the bench for years to come.
Nader is making $1.2 million. In 2007, five Celtics made $1.2 million or less (Rondo, Pollard, Powe, Pruitt, Davis), and Eddie House made $1.5 million. Even allowing for cap inflation and all that, if the end of the bench has to be full of "Nader-level players, this means Ainge isn't doing his job.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: Eddie20 on March 19, 2018, 04:11:45 PM
With the luxury tax the Cs are going to have Nader level players at the end of the bench for years to come.
Nader is making $1.2 million. In 2007, five Celtics made $1.2 million or less (Rondo, Pollard, Powe, Pruitt, Davis), and Eddie House made $1.5 million. Even allowing for cap inflation and all that, if the end of the bench has to be full of "Nader-level players, this means Ainge isn't doing his job.

Yep. The max cap hit for a vet minimum deal is 1.47M. The Nader savings isn't much.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: Celtics4ever on March 19, 2018, 04:12:13 PM
Quote
I watched Nader play a ton in Maine. His problem with the C's isn't his athleticism or his skill. It's his indecisiveness, he looks afraid to make mistakes. In Maine he was playing without thinking, just like Rozier did in his stints for the Red Claws.

I disagree he has slow feet.   Nifty offensive player and skilled but lacking top tier athletic ability.  Agility and speed should be where he trains as he needs improvement in this area.   Some of it could be hesitation but some of it is slow feet and lack of foot speed.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: kozlodoev on March 19, 2018, 04:14:35 PM
Quote
I watched Nader play a ton in Maine. His problem with the C's isn't his athleticism or his skill. It's his indecisiveness, he looks afraid to make mistakes. In Maine he was playing without thinking, just like Rozier did in his stints for the Red Claws.

I disagree he has slow feet.   Nifty offensive player and skilled but lacking top tier athletic ability.  Agility and speed should be where he trains as he needs improvement in this area.   Some of it could be hesitation but some of it is slow feet and lack of foot speed.
Can you please elaborate which skill he possesses (other than the ability to hit a three when there's noone in the same zip code) ?
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: Eddie20 on March 19, 2018, 04:18:13 PM
Quote
I watched Nader play a ton in Maine. His problem with the C's isn't his athleticism or his skill. It's his indecisiveness, he looks afraid to make mistakes. In Maine he was playing without thinking, just like Rozier did in his stints for the Red Claws.

I disagree he has slow feet.   Nifty offensive player and skilled but lacking top tier athletic ability.  Agility and speed should be where he trains as he needs improvement in this area.   Some of it could be hesitation but some of it is slow feet and lack of foot speed.
Can you please elaborate which skill he possesses (other than the ability to hit a three when there's noone in the same zip code) ?

He's shooting a nifty 36% from the field while averaging 0.6 apg vs 0.7 tov and 0.8 fouls.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: CFAN38 on March 19, 2018, 04:42:04 PM
With the luxury tax the Cs are going to have Nader level players at the end of the bench for years to come.
Nader is making $1.2 million. In 2007, five Celtics made $1.2 million or less (Rondo, Pollard, Powe, Pruitt, Davis), and Eddie House made $1.5 million. Even allowing for cap inflation and all that, if the end of the bench has to be full of "Nader-level players, this means Ainge isn't doing his job.

Yep. The max cap hit for a vet minimum deal is 1.47M. The Nader savings isn't much.

The salary cap has almost doubled since 07 but that really isn't the point. The reason we will likely see undrafted rookies/second round picks making up the end of the bench is to combat the luxury tax. Next season the Cs will be right at the line and because of the repeat tax penalty it is going to be really important to avoid it next year. Once the Cs have to start paying Brown and Tatum the Cs will be firmly in the luxury tax and likely more willing to spend money on players outside the rotation. This is when we will see vets signed for the 12-15 roster spots. For at least 1 more year every dollar counts when staying under that line.

I personally like the idea of using the 14th and 15 roster spots to try to strike gold on a player. Draft a guy with a higher upside or a clear NBA skill in the late second or sign undrafted. Sign them to 2 way deals. Then the next year you let them compete for the 14th and 15th spot. Sign them to a Nader like deal and you effectively have control of a player for 5 years.   
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: nickagneta on March 19, 2018, 05:08:23 PM
With the luxury tax the Cs are going to have Nader level players at the end of the bench for years to come.
Nader is making $1.2 million. In 2007, five Celtics made $1.2 million or less (Rondo, Pollard, Powe, Pruitt, Davis), and Eddie House made $1.5 million. Even allowing for cap inflation and all that, if the end of the bench has to be full of "Nader-level players, this means Ainge isn't doing his job.

Yep. The max cap hit for a vet minimum deal is 1.47M. The Nader savings isn't much.

The salary cap has almost doubled since 07 but that really isn't the point. The reason we will likely see undrafted rookies/second round picks making up the end of the bench is to combat the luxury tax. Next season the Cs will be right at the line and because of the repeat tax penalty it is going to be really important to avoid it next year. Once the Cs have to start paying Brown and Tatum the Cs will be firmly in the luxury tax and likely more willing to spend money on players outside the rotation. This is when we will see vets signed for the 12-15 roster spots. For at least 1 more year every dollar counts when staying under that line.

I personally like the idea of using the 14th and 15 roster spots to try to strike gold on a player. Draft a guy with a higher upside or a clear NBA skill in the late second or sign undrafted. Sign them to 2 way deals. Then the next year you let them compete for the 14th and 15th spot. Sign them to a Nader like deal and you effectively have control of a player for 5 years.   
You're missing the point. The NBA subsidizes vet min contracts and so whether you're a 10 year vet getting $2.4 million or a 5 year vet getti g $1.6 million, the salary only counts as $1.47 million against the cap and for luxury tax purposes. So the savings in having rookies at the end of the bench versus vet mins are not so great in luxury tax money as to prevent a GM from signing much better vets on the min as compared to G league level players.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: Granath on March 19, 2018, 05:35:41 PM
I don't understand the amount of attention Nader gets from some on this board. He was the 58th pick in his draft, is an NBA rookie, and making about 1% of the salary cap. He's not a great or even good player right now but every time I watch him he plays hard, stays engaged on defense and doesn't disrupt the offense. He's no star-in-the-making but I don't see any reason he can't grow into a reliable bench wing.

Over these last 3 games where he's had to step up, I though he's looked ok (going 2-8 at the line last night notwithstanding).
15th guy on the roster, pushed into a role because we have so many injuries.  The over-reaction to some missed free throws is ridiculous, but unfortunately all too in character for many on this board.
Given that every time I've seen Nader play, he looks like he lacks the requisite agility and skill to play in the NBA, he could have at least made a couple of free throws. He's the 15th man on an NBA roster, not a weekend warrior at the local YMCA.

So true. Nader apologists think it's okay for him to be abysmal because he's the 15th guy on the roster.

It's unfortunate that we are stuck giving minutes to the Trash Brothers (Nader and Semi) when we could've filled those spots with veteran players who could help us win now.
Here's a short illustrative example on roster building.

10th-15th men on this year's Boston Celtics (based on total mins played): Ojeleye, Larkin, Nader, Monroe, Yabusele, (random G-League dude).

10th-15th men on your 2007-2008 Celtics: Powe, Cassell, PJ Brown, Scalabrine, Pollard, Pruitt.

I sense a bit of discrepancy in terms of talent and experience there.

That you do and that is intentional. The 2008 Cs were built to win now and not later. There was no long-term plan for them. Ainge figured they had 3 years, tops, before that roster was done and only due to the development of Rondo was that timeline extended. So Cassell, Brown, Pollard and Scal had extensive experience to support that roster. Of course, many of those guys were at the tail end of their careers and were more important in their name than in their game. But they knew how professional basketball was played.

This roster is built for a much longer window. Horford and Baynes are the only players over 28. It is the 5th youngest roster, only .03 years older than Philly and .13 years older than the Lakers. Think about that. The wins for teams with rosters between 24 and 25 years old is (Chi), 19 (Pho), 31 (Lal), 38 (Phi), 47 (Bos), 44 (Por) and 38 (Den). This team is built for a long-term run. It's telling why Danny took on so many youngsters this year - he really didn't expect to win it all. Better to get them some experience, make their mistakes, grow into better players and have 5-10 year window to compete for multiple championships.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: Celtics4ever on March 19, 2018, 07:22:42 PM
Quote
Can you please elaborate which skill he possesses (other than the ability to hit a three when there's noone in the same zip code) ?

I think he is a ball hog, but he has had some moves to get to the bucket.  He just can't capitalize and make the shot.   This is calling filling the lane and you would be surprised how many guys do not do it properly and make the defender have to make a choice with their positioning.

http://www.nba.com/video/2017/10/18/0021700007-mil-bos-play-3

But as a guy who played some basketball past high school, there are times when I think he has some skills but it all goes away when I see a complete lack of effort on defense.  Ainge saw something he liked though.   But I am definitely in the we should find someone who can contribute better camp. 
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: Eddie20 on March 19, 2018, 09:13:56 PM
I don't understand the amount of attention Nader gets from some on this board. He was the 58th pick in his draft, is an NBA rookie, and making about 1% of the salary cap. He's not a great or even good player right now but every time I watch him he plays hard, stays engaged on defense and doesn't disrupt the offense. He's no star-in-the-making but I don't see any reason he can't grow into a reliable bench wing.

Over these last 3 games where he's had to step up, I though he's looked ok (going 2-8 at the line last night notwithstanding).
15th guy on the roster, pushed into a role because we have so many injuries.  The over-reaction to some missed free throws is ridiculous, but unfortunately all too in character for many on this board.
Given that every time I've seen Nader play, he looks like he lacks the requisite agility and skill to play in the NBA, he could have at least made a couple of free throws. He's the 15th man on an NBA roster, not a weekend warrior at the local YMCA.

So true. Nader apologists think it's okay for him to be abysmal because he's the 15th guy on the roster.

It's unfortunate that we are stuck giving minutes to the Trash Brothers (Nader and Semi) when we could've filled those spots with veteran players who could help us win now.
Here's a short illustrative example on roster building.

10th-15th men on this year's Boston Celtics (based on total mins played): Ojeleye, Larkin, Nader, Monroe, Yabusele, (random G-League dude).

10th-15th men on your 2007-2008 Celtics: Powe, Cassell, PJ Brown, Scalabrine, Pollard, Pruitt.

I sense a bit of discrepancy in terms of talent and experience there.

That you do and that is intentional. The 2008 Cs were built to win now and not later. There was no long-term plan for them. Ainge figured they had 3 years, tops, before that roster was done and only due to the development of Rondo was that timeline extended. So Cassell, Brown, Pollard and Scal had extensive experience to support that roster. Of course, many of those guys were at the tail end of their careers and were more important in their name than in their game. But they knew how professional basketball was played.

This roster is built for a much longer window. Horford and Baynes are the only players over 28. It is the 5th youngest roster, only .03 years older than Philly and .13 years older than the Lakers. Think about that. The wins for teams with rosters between 24 and 25 years old is (Chi), 19 (Pho), 31 (Lal), 38 (Phi), 47 (Bos), 44 (Por) and 38 (Den). This team is built for a long-term run. It's telling why Danny took on so many youngsters this year - he really didn't expect to win it all. Better to get them some experience, make their mistakes, grow into better players and have 5-10 year window to compete for multiple championships.

Can you clarify why you believe that adding veteran minimum players, instead of marginally talented and inexperienced young players, impacts our window? The key to our window is the youth of our top players, not the trash at the back-end of our roster.

I've always argued that Ainge made a mistake in wasting roster spots on Nader and Semi, when we were already developing Yabusele. You can probably have 1, maybe 2, but not 3 G-League type players on a roster that's expected to reach the ECF (at worst). Our roster was simply not built to withstand injuries and it's clear that Ainge put too much faith in their "abilities". Unless of course those that want to gives these guys a pass believe Ainge expected Nader and No-J to shoot 36% and 31% from the field.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on March 19, 2018, 09:26:10 PM
I don't understand the amount of attention Nader gets from some on this board. He was the 58th pick in his draft, is an NBA rookie, and making about 1% of the salary cap. He's not a great or even good player right now but every time I watch him he plays hard, stays engaged on defense and doesn't disrupt the offense. He's no star-in-the-making but I don't see any reason he can't grow into a reliable bench wing.

Over these last 3 games where he's had to step up, I though he's looked ok (going 2-8 at the line last night notwithstanding).
15th guy on the roster, pushed into a role because we have so many injuries.  The over-reaction to some missed free throws is ridiculous, but unfortunately all too in character for many on this board.
Given that every time I've seen Nader play, he looks like he lacks the requisite agility and skill to play in the NBA, he could have at least made a couple of free throws. He's the 15th man on an NBA roster, not a weekend warrior at the local YMCA.

So true. Nader apologists think it's okay for him to be abysmal because he's the 15th guy on the roster.

It's unfortunate that we are stuck giving minutes to the Trash Brothers (Nader and Semi) when we could've filled those spots with veteran players who could help us win now.
Here's a short illustrative example on roster building.

10th-15th men on this year's Boston Celtics (based on total mins played): Ojeleye, Larkin, Nader, Monroe, Yabusele, (random G-League dude).

10th-15th men on your 2007-2008 Celtics: Powe, Cassell, PJ Brown, Scalabrine, Pollard, Pruitt.

I sense a bit of discrepancy in terms of talent and experience there.

That you do and that is intentional. The 2008 Cs were built to win now and not later. There was no long-term plan for them. Ainge figured they had 3 years, tops, before that roster was done and only due to the development of Rondo was that timeline extended. So Cassell, Brown, Pollard and Scal had extensive experience to support that roster. Of course, many of those guys were at the tail end of their careers and were more important in their name than in their game. But they knew how professional basketball was played.

This roster is built for a much longer window. Horford and Baynes are the only players over 28. It is the 5th youngest roster, only .03 years older than Philly and .13 years older than the Lakers. Think about that. The wins for teams with rosters between 24 and 25 years old is (Chi), 19 (Pho), 31 (Lal), 38 (Phi), 47 (Bos), 44 (Por) and 38 (Den). This team is built for a long-term run. It's telling why Danny took on so many youngsters this year - he really didn't expect to win it all. Better to get them some experience, make their mistakes, grow into better players and have 5-10 year window to compete for multiple championships.

Agreed on all counts.  Ainge (correctly) didn't expect this team to contend in 2018.  I'm doubtful the players mentioned are even NBA caliber, but providing them with some opportunity now benefits the long-term mission.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: Eddie20 on March 19, 2018, 10:10:41 PM
I don't understand the amount of attention Nader gets from some on this board. He was the 58th pick in his draft, is an NBA rookie, and making about 1% of the salary cap. He's not a great or even good player right now but every time I watch him he plays hard, stays engaged on defense and doesn't disrupt the offense. He's no star-in-the-making but I don't see any reason he can't grow into a reliable bench wing.

Over these last 3 games where he's had to step up, I though he's looked ok (going 2-8 at the line last night notwithstanding).
15th guy on the roster, pushed into a role because we have so many injuries.  The over-reaction to some missed free throws is ridiculous, but unfortunately all too in character for many on this board.
Given that every time I've seen Nader play, he looks like he lacks the requisite agility and skill to play in the NBA, he could have at least made a couple of free throws. He's the 15th man on an NBA roster, not a weekend warrior at the local YMCA.

So true. Nader apologists think it's okay for him to be abysmal because he's the 15th guy on the roster.

It's unfortunate that we are stuck giving minutes to the Trash Brothers (Nader and Semi) when we could've filled those spots with veteran players who could help us win now.
Here's a short illustrative example on roster building.

10th-15th men on this year's Boston Celtics (based on total mins played): Ojeleye, Larkin, Nader, Monroe, Yabusele, (random G-League dude).

10th-15th men on your 2007-2008 Celtics: Powe, Cassell, PJ Brown, Scalabrine, Pollard, Pruitt.

I sense a bit of discrepancy in terms of talent and experience there.

That you do and that is intentional. The 2008 Cs were built to win now and not later. There was no long-term plan for them. Ainge figured they had 3 years, tops, before that roster was done and only due to the development of Rondo was that timeline extended. So Cassell, Brown, Pollard and Scal had extensive experience to support that roster. Of course, many of those guys were at the tail end of their careers and were more important in their name than in their game. But they knew how professional basketball was played.

This roster is built for a much longer window. Horford and Baynes are the only players over 28. It is the 5th youngest roster, only .03 years older than Philly and .13 years older than the Lakers. Think about that. The wins for teams with rosters between 24 and 25 years old is (Chi), 19 (Pho), 31 (Lal), 38 (Phi), 47 (Bos), 44 (Por) and 38 (Den). This team is built for a long-term run. It's telling why Danny took on so many youngsters this year - he really didn't expect to win it all. Better to get them some experience, make their mistakes, grow into better players and have 5-10 year window to compete for multiple championships.

Agreed on all counts.  Ainge (correctly) didn't expect this team to contend in 2018.  I'm doubtful the players mentioned are even NBA caliber, but providing them with some opportunity now benefits the long-term mission.

1. So who do you think we can't beat in the EC if healthy?

2. So what's the point of developing the said non-NBA caliber players? Is it for their respective future Euro team?
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: Granath on March 19, 2018, 10:24:09 PM
I don't understand the amount of attention Nader gets from some on this board. He was the 58th pick in his draft, is an NBA rookie, and making about 1% of the salary cap. He's not a great or even good player right now but every time I watch him he plays hard, stays engaged on defense and doesn't disrupt the offense. He's no star-in-the-making but I don't see any reason he can't grow into a reliable bench wing.

Over these last 3 games where he's had to step up, I though he's looked ok (going 2-8 at the line last night notwithstanding).
15th guy on the roster, pushed into a role because we have so many injuries.  The over-reaction to some missed free throws is ridiculous, but unfortunately all too in character for many on this board.
Given that every time I've seen Nader play, he looks like he lacks the requisite agility and skill to play in the NBA, he could have at least made a couple of free throws. He's the 15th man on an NBA roster, not a weekend warrior at the local YMCA.

So true. Nader apologists think it's okay for him to be abysmal because he's the 15th guy on the roster.

It's unfortunate that we are stuck giving minutes to the Trash Brothers (Nader and Semi) when we could've filled those spots with veteran players who could help us win now.
Here's a short illustrative example on roster building.

10th-15th men on this year's Boston Celtics (based on total mins played): Ojeleye, Larkin, Nader, Monroe, Yabusele, (random G-League dude).

10th-15th men on your 2007-2008 Celtics: Powe, Cassell, PJ Brown, Scalabrine, Pollard, Pruitt.

I sense a bit of discrepancy in terms of talent and experience there.

That you do and that is intentional. The 2008 Cs were built to win now and not later. There was no long-term plan for them. Ainge figured they had 3 years, tops, before that roster was done and only due to the development of Rondo was that timeline extended. So Cassell, Brown, Pollard and Scal had extensive experience to support that roster. Of course, many of those guys were at the tail end of their careers and were more important in their name than in their game. But they knew how professional basketball was played.

This roster is built for a much longer window. Horford and Baynes are the only players over 28. It is the 5th youngest roster, only .03 years older than Philly and .13 years older than the Lakers. Think about that. The wins for teams with rosters between 24 and 25 years old is (Chi), 19 (Pho), 31 (Lal), 38 (Phi), 47 (Bos), 44 (Por) and 38 (Den). This team is built for a long-term run. It's telling why Danny took on so many youngsters this year - he really didn't expect to win it all. Better to get them some experience, make their mistakes, grow into better players and have 5-10 year window to compete for multiple championships.

Agreed on all counts.  Ainge (correctly) didn't expect this team to contend in 2018.  I'm doubtful the players mentioned are even NBA caliber, but providing them with some opportunity now benefits the long-term mission.

1. So who do you think we can't beat in the EC if healthy?

2. So what's the point of developing the said non-NBA caliber players? Is it for their respective future Euro team?

1. Has nothing to do with the EC.

2. They're in the NBA, so that entirely defeats your second point. A couple of these guys will wash out after a year or two. A couple of these guys will develop and blossom. I think Rozier's development should all give us pause as to who will be who.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: nickagneta on March 19, 2018, 11:00:00 PM
I don't understand the amount of attention Nader gets from some on this board. He was the 58th pick in his draft, is an NBA rookie, and making about 1% of the salary cap. He's not a great or even good player right now but every time I watch him he plays hard, stays engaged on defense and doesn't disrupt the offense. He's no star-in-the-making but I don't see any reason he can't grow into a reliable bench wing.

Over these last 3 games where he's had to step up, I though he's looked ok (going 2-8 at the line last night notwithstanding).
15th guy on the roster, pushed into a role because we have so many injuries.  The over-reaction to some missed free throws is ridiculous, but unfortunately all too in character for many on this board.
Given that every time I've seen Nader play, he looks like he lacks the requisite agility and skill to play in the NBA, he could have at least made a couple of free throws. He's the 15th man on an NBA roster, not a weekend warrior at the local YMCA.

So true. Nader apologists think it's okay for him to be abysmal because he's the 15th guy on the roster.

It's unfortunate that we are stuck giving minutes to the Trash Brothers (Nader and Semi) when we could've filled those spots with veteran players who could help us win now.
Here's a short illustrative example on roster building.

10th-15th men on this year's Boston Celtics (based on total mins played): Ojeleye, Larkin, Nader, Monroe, Yabusele, (random G-League dude).

10th-15th men on your 2007-2008 Celtics: Powe, Cassell, PJ Brown, Scalabrine, Pollard, Pruitt.

I sense a bit of discrepancy in terms of talent and experience there.

That you do and that is intentional. The 2008 Cs were built to win now and not later. There was no long-term plan for them. Ainge figured they had 3 years, tops, before that roster was done and only due to the development of Rondo was that timeline extended. So Cassell, Brown, Pollard and Scal had extensive experience to support that roster. Of course, many of those guys were at the tail end of their careers and were more important in their name than in their game. But they knew how professional basketball was played.

This roster is built for a much longer window. Horford and Baynes are the only players over 28. It is the 5th youngest roster, only .03 years older than Philly and .13 years older than the Lakers. Think about that. The wins for teams with rosters between 24 and 25 years old is (Chi), 19 (Pho), 31 (Lal), 38 (Phi), 47 (Bos), 44 (Por) and 38 (Den). This team is built for a long-term run. It's telling why Danny took on so many youngsters this year - he really didn't expect to win it all. Better to get them some experience, make their mistakes, grow into better players and have 5-10 year window to compete for multiple championships.

Agreed on all counts.  Ainge (correctly) didn't expect this team to contend in 2018.  I'm doubtful the players mentioned are even NBA caliber, but providing them with some opportunity now benefits the long-term mission.

1. So who do you think we can't beat in the EC if healthy?

2. So what's the point of developing the said non-NBA caliber players? Is it for their respective future Euro team?

1. Has nothing to do with the EC.

2. They're in the NBA, so that entirely defeats your second point. A couple of these guys will wash out after a year or two. A couple of these guys will develop and blossom. I think Rozier's development should all give us pause as to who will be who.
Regarding 2, he has a point. If the players are basically G League level players with little upside, why waste the time trying to develop them? I guess it all comes down to scouting. But Rozier was obviously way better from a raw talent perspective than Nader, Semi, Bird, Allen and such. Just a look at his college film will tell you that. Rozier's initial ceiling was miles and miles higher than any of those other guys. I think comparing Rozier to them is doing a giant dissrevice to Rozy and his ability and potential.
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on March 19, 2018, 11:30:49 PM
I don't understand the amount of attention Nader gets from some on this board. He was the 58th pick in his draft, is an NBA rookie, and making about 1% of the salary cap. He's not a great or even good player right now but every time I watch him he plays hard, stays engaged on defense and doesn't disrupt the offense. He's no star-in-the-making but I don't see any reason he can't grow into a reliable bench wing.

Over these last 3 games where he's had to step up, I though he's looked ok (going 2-8 at the line last night notwithstanding).
15th guy on the roster, pushed into a role because we have so many injuries.  The over-reaction to some missed free throws is ridiculous, but unfortunately all too in character for many on this board.
Given that every time I've seen Nader play, he looks like he lacks the requisite agility and skill to play in the NBA, he could have at least made a couple of free throws. He's the 15th man on an NBA roster, not a weekend warrior at the local YMCA.

So true. Nader apologists think it's okay for him to be abysmal because he's the 15th guy on the roster.

It's unfortunate that we are stuck giving minutes to the Trash Brothers (Nader and Semi) when we could've filled those spots with veteran players who could help us win now.
Here's a short illustrative example on roster building.

10th-15th men on this year's Boston Celtics (based on total mins played): Ojeleye, Larkin, Nader, Monroe, Yabusele, (random G-League dude).

10th-15th men on your 2007-2008 Celtics: Powe, Cassell, PJ Brown, Scalabrine, Pollard, Pruitt.

I sense a bit of discrepancy in terms of talent and experience there.

That you do and that is intentional. The 2008 Cs were built to win now and not later. There was no long-term plan for them. Ainge figured they had 3 years, tops, before that roster was done and only due to the development of Rondo was that timeline extended. So Cassell, Brown, Pollard and Scal had extensive experience to support that roster. Of course, many of those guys were at the tail end of their careers and were more important in their name than in their game. But they knew how professional basketball was played.

This roster is built for a much longer window. Horford and Baynes are the only players over 28. It is the 5th youngest roster, only .03 years older than Philly and .13 years older than the Lakers. Think about that. The wins for teams with rosters between 24 and 25 years old is (Chi), 19 (Pho), 31 (Lal), 38 (Phi), 47 (Bos), 44 (Por) and 38 (Den). This team is built for a long-term run. It's telling why Danny took on so many youngsters this year - he really didn't expect to win it all. Better to get them some experience, make their mistakes, grow into better players and have 5-10 year window to compete for multiple championships.

Agreed on all counts.  Ainge (correctly) didn't expect this team to contend in 2018.  I'm doubtful the players mentioned are even NBA caliber, but providing them with some opportunity now benefits the long-term mission.

1. So who do you think we can't beat in the EC if healthy?

2. So what's the point of developing the said non-NBA caliber players? Is it for their respective future Euro team?

Making the Finals isn't equivalent to being a contenders. 

It's a matter of remaining active as a GM -- their development could reap long-term rewards, whereas signing vet min free agents in a year of non-contention doesn't.  There are recent examples of young guys that went undrafted and carved out NBA roles (Yogi Ferrell, Royce O'Neal), so it's also not unprecedented.  They're cost-controlled options, and fit our future window of contention as well. 
Title: Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
Post by: chilidawg on March 20, 2018, 12:47:26 AM
I don't understand the amount of attention Nader gets from some on this board. He was the 58th pick in his draft, is an NBA rookie, and making about 1% of the salary cap. He's not a great or even good player right now but every time I watch him he plays hard, stays engaged on defense and doesn't disrupt the offense. He's no star-in-the-making but I don't see any reason he can't grow into a reliable bench wing.

Over these last 3 games where he's had to step up, I though he's looked ok (going 2-8 at the line last night notwithstanding).
15th guy on the roster, pushed into a role because we have so many injuries.  The over-reaction to some missed free throws is ridiculous, but unfortunately all too in character for many on this board.
Given that every time I've seen Nader play, he looks like he lacks the requisite agility and skill to play in the NBA, he could have at least made a couple of free throws. He's the 15th man on an NBA roster, not a weekend warrior at the local YMCA.

So true. Nader apologists think it's okay for him to be abysmal because he's the 15th guy on the roster.

It's unfortunate that we are stuck giving minutes to the Trash Brothers (Nader and Semi) when we could've filled those spots with veteran players who could help us win now.
Here's a short illustrative example on roster building.

10th-15th men on this year's Boston Celtics (based on total mins played): Ojeleye, Larkin, Nader, Monroe, Yabusele, (random G-League dude).

10th-15th men on your 2007-2008 Celtics: Powe, Cassell, PJ Brown, Scalabrine, Pollard, Pruitt.

I sense a bit of discrepancy in terms of talent and experience there.

That you do and that is intentional. The 2008 Cs were built to win now and not later. There was no long-term plan for them. Ainge figured they had 3 years, tops, before that roster was done and only due to the development of Rondo was that timeline extended. So Cassell, Brown, Pollard and Scal had extensive experience to support that roster. Of course, many of those guys were at the tail end of their careers and were more important in their name than in their game. But they knew how professional basketball was played.

This roster is built for a much longer window. Horford and Baynes are the only players over 28. It is the 5th youngest roster, only .03 years older than Philly and .13 years older than the Lakers. Think about that. The wins for teams with rosters between 24 and 25 years old is (Chi), 19 (Pho), 31 (Lal), 38 (Phi), 47 (Bos), 44 (Por) and 38 (Den). This team is built for a long-term run. It's telling why Danny took on so many youngsters this year - he really didn't expect to win it all. Better to get them some experience, make their mistakes, grow into better players and have 5-10 year window to compete for multiple championships.

Agreed on all counts.  Ainge (correctly) didn't expect this team to contend in 2018.  I'm doubtful the players mentioned are even NBA caliber, but providing them with some opportunity now benefits the long-term mission.

1. So who do you think we can't beat in the EC if healthy?

2. So what's the point of developing the said non-NBA caliber players? Is it for their respective future Euro team?

Making the Finals isn't equivalent to being a contenders. 

It's a matter of remaining active as a GM -- their development could reap long-term rewards, whereas signing vet min free agents in a year of non-contention doesn't.  There are recent examples of young guys that went undrafted and carved out NBA roles (Yogi Ferrell, Royce O'Neal), so it's also not unprecedented.  They're cost-controlled options, and fit our future window of contention as well.

There have already been 26 guys from last years draft alone who went undrafted and have had at least a cup of coffee in the League.  2016 has seen about a dozen guys who have roles at least.  It's certainly not unprecedented, it's actually pretty common.