CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: tarheelsxxiii on January 06, 2013, 01:43:10 AM
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Loaded with talent, oozes basketball player as much as Jesus Shuttlesworth did... how can we get him to be a basketball player? Make good on all his god-given talent and potential?
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trade him
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To me it's not a lack of effort but a problem with decision making (at least on offense). He isn't decisive, taking way too long to get into his move whether it be in the post or the wing. I think this will improve as he continues to play.
Your poll is hilarious btw.
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He should be teached on how to play the right way...but most of all, doc should also utilize him and get him in rhythm, if he is played limited minutes, what you see is limited production.
I want to see Jeff Green utilize his athleticism more by mastering a one dribbledrive pullup jump shot from around 12-15 ft. I believe that he can be good at that because he can jump high and his shot will be unblockable, he needs to work his ass off on that one and make a living out of it, I believe no SF can touch his shot if he masters it. Didn't we at one point compared this guy to the late Len Bias?...well its because he can be like that, he just need touches andwork on his game.
He should also stop camping at the 3 point area and utilize whatever basketball IQ is left in his brain to stop ball watchin and move like AB via backdoor cuts, if his man is ballwatching which i notice a lot of times then he should make his move. A back door cut will usually result in a close range shot and possible free throw shot if fouled by his man.
His D is decent as it is, he just needs to stay infront of his man more.
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rofl at the poll
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Maybe Doc should put the entire starting lineup on the 5-5-5 plan with KG and go with Green as part of an all-bench unit with Terry, Lee, Sullinger, and Collins.
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Get him to understand he is not a scorer and needs to commit himself to defense and rebounding to become a highly valuable glue guy in the NBA.
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Give him a role and then give him some consistent minutes and responsibility to carry that role out. If he doesn't live up to it, call him out.
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Give him a role and then give him some consistent minutes and responsibility to carry that role out. If he doesn't live up to it, call him out.
like last night? He saw significant minutes and stunk up the joint. Including getting blocked by the rim ::). I mean seriously you cant play timid in basketball. You dont need to score all the time but you do need to be someone that's noticeable in the game. For me, he's lost his time to prove himself. The last two games everyone has stepped up and is finding their niche. Jeff greens still over in the stands suckin his thumb and lookin up at the rafters. HIS ROLE is already defined...get in there and do your job for the time we give you.
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I think the coaching staff and Danny need to look at what made him a productive player in the past.
In Okc I think he got the majority of his shots through isolation plays. So Doc needs to run more isolations for him if he wants consistent production.
The real question is whether or not doing this makes they Celtics better. IMO it does not.
The alternative is trying to develop Greens game by teaching him how to play differently off the ball and work harder to get to spots where he can take advantage of his size and quickness. I also never see Ihim too involved in pick n rolls or even setting screens off the ball.
I think Doc is stuck somewhere in between these options. Some games green is getting fed the ball and asked to create. Other games he just floats.
Regarding defense and rebounding, I think he is capped out at average defender and below average rebounder.
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Get him to understand he is not a scorer and needs to commit himself to defense and rebounding to become a highly valuable glue guy in the NBA.
Who needs a $9M/year, nonscoring, 'glue guy' at the 3?
Either to keep him or trade him, he's got to just be smarter about scoring to have any value.
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Hopefully, Danny can trade gun once Jan 15th comes for an asset. So I think this growth happens on another team because we signed the guy and needed him to produce and he has largely pulled a vanishing act.
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Hopefully, Danny can trade gun once Jan 15th comes for an asset. So I think this growth happens on another team because we signed the guy and needed him to produce and he has largely pulled a vanishing act.
I don't think we get anything back that helps the team now. So I would hold onto his potential.
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One problem is they go to him once. And if he miss's they don't go back. They need to create miss match's like they do with PP, making the defenders switch and getting him a smaller guy to post.
They also need to ISO, but have Terry on the opposite 3 point line so the defender doesn't help out.
I don't think he's ever going to have the mental toughness of PP,KG or Rondo, but can be a good Robin or Auquman for the team if used right and put in the right places. Something Doc and Rondo hasn't done enough of.
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Besides teaching him how to pee properly, we should hold on his potential. Remember Bradley? He was considered a bust and a lot of guys wanted him as a trade filler, but Danny held on and now we have one of the best defenders in the league.
Give Green a break, the guy could have died if the doctors haven't found out that aneurysm. He sat the whole year out and he should just be happy he's still alive. Plus, Doc once again shows as a confidence killer. How can a guy blossom and grow if he's benched after every stupid play? Everyone makes stupid plays, so we should just be patient. He is a big part of our future.
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I would like to see Jeff Green get some playing time alongside Pierce on the wing with Bass and KG as big men but with Jason Terry (shooter) at the point instead of Rajon Rondo (non-shooter).
Make it harder for opponents to send help defense when Pierce or Green attack the mismatch.
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One problem is they go to him once. And if he miss's they don't go back. They need to create miss match's like they do with PP, making the defenders switch and getting him a smaller guy to post.
They also need to ISO, but have Terry on the opposite 3 point line so the defender doesn't help out.
I don't think he's ever going to have the mental toughness of PP,KG or Rondo, but can be a good Robin or Auquman for the team if used right and put in the right places. Something Doc and Rondo hasn't done enough of.
TP for the specifics. Your first two options make a lot of sense - especially going right back to him. He is someone who lacks confidence and knowing that team would be willing to go right back to him even after he blows it may do him a lot of good.
I really do get a little sick of the negativity regarding Green. He is not the next coming of Scottie Pippen, but he can provide a very useful role if used the right way. I agree that he needs to be 'tougher', but unlike KG, I don't think Pierce is as much of a teacher - even though he is a great great player.
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I would like to see Jeff Green get some playing time alongside Pierce on the wing with Bass and KG as big men but with Jason Terry (shooter) at the point instead of Rajon Rondo (non-shooter).
Make it harder for opponents to send help defense when Pierce or Green attack the mismatch.
Doc refuses to use Terry as a PG. Even when Lee is on the floor with him, it's Lee playing PG.
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I would like to see Jeff Green get some playing time alongside Pierce on the wing with Bass and KG as big men but with Jason Terry (shooter) at the point instead of Rajon Rondo (non-shooter).
Make it harder for opponents to send help defense when Pierce or Green attack the mismatch.
Doc refuses to use Terry as a PG. Even when Lee is on the floor with him, it's Lee playing PG.
Yeah, that's been strange -- Lee handling the ball so much when Terry is there.
Confusing.
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Get him to understand he is not a scorer and needs to commit himself to defense and rebounding to become a highly valuable glue guy in the NBA.
Who needs a $9M/year, nonscoring, 'glue guy' at the 3?
Brooklyn, Minnesota, Chicago, Philly, Dallas.
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I want to like green, I really do. But he is a very tough player to figure out. It seems that his best attribute is being athletic, and he is bery good at beimg athletic.
His job for us is to be a go to scorer on the second unit. Yet, he isn't a very good scorer. The put him in iso a lot or post him up, but he has one ISP move (go right, into the middle, force up something weird) and he isn't a good post up player. Even when he has smaller players on him he has trouble backing the down to the basket. This year he has hit some threes but he isn't a very good three point shooter either. He is best at getting easy transition buckets and get, but we don't run much.
So he's here to score but isn't a good scorer. He isn't a very good rebounder at around 3 a game, he doesn't box out much at all. He isn't a good passer at less than 1 a game. He reminds of a welfare version of ISO-joe where it's just one and done for him, and his defense isn't very good either. So at the point, i struggle with what he can actually provide for us that say a pieteus or even a Sasha Pavlovic couldn't.
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I would like to see Jeff Green get some playing time alongside Pierce on the wing with Bass and KG as big men but with Jason Terry (shooter) at the point instead of Rajon Rondo (non-shooter).
Make it harder for opponents to send help defense when Pierce or Green attack the mismatch.
Who defends the 2? It'd need to be against teams that are either big or bad at SG.
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I will pile on (even though I like Green and hope he can contribute more). When Green goes iso, his moves are too predictable. He gets stuffed or blocked because the defender knows what he Is about to do. Doc should run more plays for him, REAL plays, not iso.
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I would like to see Jeff Green get some playing time alongside Pierce on the wing with Bass and KG as big men but with Jason Terry (shooter) at the point instead of Rajon Rondo (non-shooter).
Make it harder for opponents to send help defense when Pierce or Green attack the mismatch.
Who defends the 2? It'd need to be against teams that are either big or bad at SG.
It looks like it has to be J.Green. Pierce has slowed down defensively this year.
The matchups have to be appropriate for that combination to work well together.
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I would like to see Jeff Green get some playing time alongside Pierce on the wing with Bass and KG as big men but with Jason Terry (shooter) at the point instead of Rajon Rondo (non-shooter).
Make it harder for opponents to send help defense when Pierce or Green attack the mismatch.
Who defends the 2? It'd need to be against teams that are either big or bad at SG.
I agree with Who. I've been advocating for the Green/Pierce combo for a while (as have many others on this board).
Offensively, this gives us a lot more versatility and length.
Defensively, Green can guard the 2 and Pierce the 3. Green easily has the requisite athleticism to guard the 2.
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I dont think we'll see Green's true value until we play a team like the Knicks/Heat who like to play small with Melo/Lebron at the 4.
this is really why Green was acquired....to defend the elite wings so that pierce can expend more energy on offense and provide more of a scoring threat that teams would have to respect.
hes a 15ppg scorer given starting minutes...but the way our roster is constructed he cant really get those minutes/touches...theres only so many shots to go around.
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Green isn't good enough offensively to be the focal point of an offense when he's out there. He's not a quick penetrator, can only go to his right and has only a decent pull up. He's a good post up player though. When he plays, he's out there a lot with KG, Terry and even Rondo; he shouldn't be the focus. What are they going to do? Just iso him up repeatedly? He would get more chances he was a better playmaker and could be a ballhandler off picks.
I'd like for the aspects of the game besides scoring to be emphasized to Green. He has to be one of the biggest underachievers from what he's physically capable of on the defensive end and the boards and what he actually does. He's shown glimpses of being able to wreak havoc on the defensive end, particularly in the final game against Milwaukee. He turned defense into offense too. Just more of that please.
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Get him to understand he is not a scorer and needs to commit himself to defense and rebounding to become a highly valuable glue guy in the NBA.
Who needs a $9M/year, nonscoring, 'glue guy' at the 3?
Brooklyn, Minnesota, Chicago, Philly, Dallas.
I could actually see Green modelling his game after AK-47. That would be pretty awsome.
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lol at the poll
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I dont think we'll see Green's true value until we play a team like the Knicks/Heat who like to play small with Melo/Lebron at the 4.
this is really why Green was acquired....to defend the elite wings so that pierce can expend more energy on offense and provide more of a scoring threat that teams would have to respect.
hes a 15ppg scorer given starting minutes...but the way our roster is constructed he cant really get those minutes/touches...theres only so many shots to go around.
Green cannot defend Lebron nor Melo. Please trade him, Danny. In my opinion, a journeyman wing can give the Celtics what he is giving them.
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There's only so much the team can do for Jeff - sure, we can put him certain lineups, or run more plays for him. But at the end of the day, Jeff has to "put his big boy pants on" and make the decision and effort to be more aggressive & consistent. He has to stop waiting for permission and go get it. The concerning part is, after what he went through last year, if that hasn't changed his mindset then I have a really hard time seeing what will.
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Oh, and as far as sending Jeff to a WNBA affiliate - I'd happily trade him for Candace Parker or Angel McCoughtry.
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There's only so much the team can do for Jeff - sure, we can put him certain lineups, or run more plays for him. But at the end of the day, Jeff has to "put his big boy pants on" and make the decision and effort to be more aggressive & consistent. He has to stop waiting for permission and go get it. The concerning part is, after what he went through last year, if that hasn't changed his mindset then I have a really hard time seeing what will.
Bingo. I hope he gets traded though. I'm sick of coddling him. At this rate I woulda rather had pietrus
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Well, for those who want to get rid of Jeff Green - pls tell me who BOS will throw at LeBron James when that time comes?
And that time will come, trust me.
If the plan is to ship him out of town, I'd hope that we get back some useful body that can at least trip up LeBron James, if needed.
I know that LeBron is just about an unstoppable force right now, but still....at least Jeff Green has the athletiscism to keep up with him.
Our path back to the NBA Finals will undoubtedly go through MIA...we'd better be ready. Being ready is not having Paul Pierce unprotected in a seven game series with LeBron James.
Imagine if we would've had Jeff Green - as many of us were saying - last May/June. Could've been a different outcome.
Please consider carefully the ramifications of getting rid of Jeff Green.
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He's been as expected these first 30 or so games back - ups, downs, etc.
I agree that the Pierce/Green wing combination has some very serious potential long-term (could help extend the old man's career not having to guard the most athletic wing) - but Doc's in a bind here. Bradley's back, which means he now has 5 serviceable guards to rotate (and, potentially, showcase these next few weeks) - not a lot of room for that Pierce/Green combo.
And, Bass clearly is a different player, confidence-wise, when he gets to call himself a starter, and Sullinger is stepping forward as a solid rotation-player - probably only spot minutes for Green at the 4 until the roster logjam is settled a little bit.
Right now, and for a few more weeks, I think he's just the backup 3 almost all of the time, and he'll have several more games like these last few (not counting garbage time) - a few shots, a few points, a board or a block. It'll be high times for folks angry about his contract for awhile.
On the other hand, maybe Danny and Doc are trying to bury him while they showcase some other folks - as fun as it was to beat up on the hawks last night (and it was incredibly fun), even 38-44 win, out in the first round teams have a handful of stirring wins that make us fans go mooneyed. These guys are still first or second round playoff bait right now without upgrades and a shorter rotation.
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Well, for those who want to get rid of Jeff Green - pls tell me who BOS will throw at LeBron James when that time comes?
And that time will come, trust me.
If the plan is to ship him out of town, I'd hope that we get back some useful body that can at least trip up LeBron James, if needed.
I know that LeBron is just about an unstoppable force right now, but still....at least Jeff Green has the athletiscism to keep up with him.
Our path back to the NBA Finals will undoubtedly go through MIA...we'd better be ready. Being ready is not having Paul Pierce unprotected in a seven game series with LeBron James.
Imagine if we would've had Jeff Green - as many of us were saying - last May/June. Could've been a different outcome.
Please consider carefully the ramifications of getting rid of Jeff Green.
When people say this it makes me wonder if they really watch basketball.
WE DO NOT HAVE TO CONTAIN LEBROID!!!! We have to contain EVERYONE else on that team! Do you know why Lebroid never won a chip before last season? Because everyone else not named Lebron was contained... LeBron played great in the playoffs yet his teams kept losing, only after going to a team with people who could (on any given night) be as dominate as he could, did he win. Yes, he had good teams but he needed a guy(s) that could be just as good when it mattered most as he could (I'm not saying they are as good as him, wade and bosh, but they both have the ability to go to another level... especially Wade). If you watch the game when Lebroid was literally killing us out there (45pt game 6), we were still right there with a chance to win it... it wasn't until the other players stepped up that we got our butts handed to us! There is always one player on a team that you just aren't going to stop no matter how well you play (Lebroid/Wade, Melo, CP3, etc.)... stopping/containing the other players is key to victory! Yes, we want to make Lebroids job harder but containing him is not the prime objective to beating his team.
We didn't get Green for the purpose of stopping guys like LeBroid, Green is there so there won't be a HUGE drop-off in play when PP is trying to rest... Green, however, is just not doing a good job on most nights to warrant more minutes (to take pressure off PP). If we wanted someone to just worry about defending these top guys then we could have paid Pietrus pennies on the dollar instead (to defend better than Green)! We need offense from Green, we need him to make his guy work on defense... we need rebounding... WE NEED EFFORT!! Doc has said that when Green has good games, it's not b/c they call plays for him but it's b/c Green just became aggressive! In fact, Doc said that the times Green scores are when Doc doesn't call plays for him (I remember that comment from the OKC game). If only Green had the energy/aggressiveness of guys like Hansbrough, Sully, AB... he wouldn't have to worry about being a good player b/c when you out effort everyone else like those guys do, good things happen! AB is barely hitting any shots his first 3 games back but he is out there giving max effort, which helps energize everyone else, which in turn makes our entire team better... it's a simple as that... EFFORT! Maybe Green just doesn't have the motor? I see him trying but that extra gear that the better players have, he just has every now and then (even then it's not for an entire game for him... look at his best games, he would take entire quarters and seem invisible out there... even in the OKC game). Green needs to go out there and grab rebounds, get some assists, steals, and play solid defense (his d has been better of late but still nothing to write home about)! If your offense isn't clicking (even though we need that from Green), he HAS to do the other things better. He needs to be tougher, it's as simple as that!
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its not that green will stop lebron, its that he will guard lebron allowing Pierce to not have to spend so much energy on defense.
plus, if you want to match up with their small-ball unit..Green provides more scoring/versatility than someone like...Pietrus.
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ImShakHeIsShaq - Strike TWO, for you.
You disrespected me a few weeks ago in a different thread - I ignored it the best I could, and answered YOU in a way that wasn't disrespectful.
Please don't forget that it was "I" who came to your rescue when you were getting tossed under the bus for saying disrespectful things about the Celtics when you were on the Cavs blog....
Remember that Game Thread Incident?
I watch basketball just about as much as many of us here...I get different perspectives on Basketball - just like YOU and EVERYONE else, here.
Please don't disrespect me.
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How about scaling back Green's minutes and playing the guys who put out maximum effort? This team has shown a very gritty, tough, defensive-minded mindset the past two games. And who was the only player who wasn't part of it? Jeff Green.
I'd rather play a small second unit with Lee as a point forward along with Terry and Bradley when Rondo is sitting. Let green play one six minute stint in the first half. If he isn't giving it maximum effort and playing gritty ball, keep him on the bench the second half
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How about scaling back Green's minutes and playing the guys who put out maximum effort? This team has shown a very gritty, tough, defensive-minded mindset the past two games. And who was the only player who wasn't part of it? Jeff Green.
I'd rather play a small second unit with Lee as a point forward along with Terry and Bradley when Rondo is sitting. Let green play one six minute stint in the first half. If he isn't giving it maximum effort and playing gritty ball, keep him on the bench the second half
I don't know about Lee as a point forward. I don't know if Doc will play Terry, Bradley and Lee at the same time either. When Lee's out there with Pierce and Terry and Garnett, there doesn't have to be a designated "point" per se. Lee gets to bring the ball up from time to time but the main decisionmakers are going to be Pierce, Terry and Garnett, as it should be because they're all better passers and/or ballhandlers.
Also, Green sat out an entire third quarter for the first time Saturday. Part of that was Pierce being hot but after he sat down after the end of the third, Green still wasn't out there for the start of the fourth. He got in after a quick early whistle. Maybe Doc is going to start taking a harder line with him. Maybe not with the Knicks game though because the Celtics have nobody to match up size-wise with Carmelo after Pierce.
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Free him up trade him im pretty sure he will flourish, he just doesn't fit doc's system.
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Trade him, preferably in a package for a cousins/smith/gay type or picks/players with star potential.
But with that contract, I'd be happy for a starting caliber/first off of bench C and a decent 10 mpg backup PG
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ImShakHeIsShaq - Strike TWO, for you.
You disrespected me a few weeks ago in a different thread - I ignored it the best I could, and answered YOU in a way that wasn't disrespectful.
Please don't forget that it was "I" who came to your rescue when you were getting tossed under the bus for saying disrespectful things about the Celtics when you were on the Cavs blog....
Remember that Game Thread Incident?
I watch basketball just about as much as many of us here...I get different perspectives on Basketball - just like YOU and EVERYONE else, here.
Please don't disrespect me.
I don't care about being defended, I don't need it...when I give my opinion I don't care who likes/doesn't like it! I'm not baiting you so that means our convo ends here. It could be strike 5 and I wouldn't care. I'm going to stop there b/c I don't want to be banned but thank you and good luck!