New Thinking Basketball video: Jaylen Brown

[Somebody]

Very promising analysis of Jaylen Brown this season, rating him as just short of being All-Star worthy as well as floating the possibility that he might squeeze out more of his ceiling (which is rated as a low/mid-end All-Star right now) with his intelligence and work ethic. I do think that there's an All-NBA player in there (I think of his passing issues as more of being in attack mode whenever he has the ball due to his peripheral offensive role instead of having tunnel vision, so growth in his passing and dribbling would make him a viable secondary ballhandler), but this analysis sounds very reasonable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvcs4Fk6yt0

[Rosco917]

I agree. Intelligence and work ethic will hopefully become his calling card, and let's also toss in awareness.

"Being in attack mode" can't be an excuse for not finding open teammates with a better opportunity than yourself. Because soon you have a team full of players stuck in "attack mode" and you then have a group that struggles to get past the next level and can't figure out why. Crisp ball movement causes defensive fatigue for the opposition.

Besides talent, chemistry and balance also wins championships.

[RPGenerate]

Becoming a better passer and cleaning up his defensive lapses will be the main things for him to work on. He became a much better ball-handler this season, so I'm confident he can improve in those areas as well.

[Somebody]

I agree. Intelligence and work ethic will hopefully become his calling card, and let's also toss in awareness.

"Being in attack mode" can't be an excuse for not finding open teammates with a better opportunity than yourself. Because soon you have a team full of players stuck in "attack mode" and you then have a group that struggles to get past the next level and can't figure out why. Crisp ball movement causes defensive fatigue for the opposition.

Besides talent, chemistry and balance also wins championships.

Oh for sure,  but my point was that Jaylen's role in the Celtics offence is mainly to attack openings created by teammates and score, which could lead to him passing up some open passing looks in favour of scoring attempts simply by design, and that makes his passing look a bit worse than if he was playing in a more on ball role where he was asked to facilitate more. Obviously he needs to balance out his passing and scoring as well as improve on his vision, but I do feel that the video was a bit too critical of his passing and vision - I generally find Jaylen to be a pretty willing passer who can survey the floor in some capacity.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I just like that he has stayed aggressive. I agree he needs to look for the easy kickouts more often, and needs to learn more advanced defensive manipulation that opens up shots for teammates, but what are we expecting?

With his intelligence and growth trajectory, I'm hopefully he becomes a high level complementary scorer who can also be a guy who gets good looks for teammates.

His defense is pretty good. I would still love to see him really lock-in and decide to shut someone down. I think he has the intelligence, athleticism, and defensive instincts to do it.

[Big333223]

TP for the video. Seemed pretty on-point.

I love Jaylen. I love his work ethic and the improvements he's made. It makes me very optimistic for his future.

[bucknersrevenge]

Yeah, this video is a pretty even-tempered review of Jaylen that falls much in line with my read on Jaylen when I was debating Brown v Simmons. Jaylen can certainly improve from a "skills" perspective (ballhandling, shooting, not fouling on defense, etc). In those areas, he's gonna continue to work hard. What separates those in the higher echelon from him is the ability to make the reads at a quicker pace. Some guys just see the floor better and process what's happening faster than others. I don't know that that is a skill that can be developed much over time. More familiarity within a system and experience can make some reads easier to make but that innate ability to process on the fly (see the open man on the drive, make the backdoor cut when your defender turns his head) I think is something that will forever be somewhat foreign to him. And that's okay. We have Walker, Tatum, Hayward, and Smart to make those reads. Make no mistake, Jaylen can still be an exceptional complement, doing what he does well.

[Somebody]

Yeah, this video is a pretty even-tempered review of Jaylen that falls much in line with my read on Jaylen when I was debating Brown v Simmons. Jaylen can certainly improve from a "skills" perspective (ballhandling, shooting, not fouling on defense, etc). In those areas, he's gonna continue to work hard. What separates those in the higher echelon from him is the ability to make the reads at a quicker pace. Some guys just see the floor better and process what's happening faster than others. I don't know that that is a skill that can be developed much over time. More familiarity within a system and experience can make some reads easier to make but that innate ability to process on the fly (see the open man on the drive, make the backdoor cut when your defender turns his head) I think is something that will forever be somewhat foreign to him. And that's okay. We have Walker, Tatum, Hayward, and Smart to make those reads. Make no mistake, Jaylen can still be an exceptional complement, doing what he does well.

You should also watch/listen his video and podcast about Simmons before you make your conclusion in the Brown vs Simmons debate.
https://soundcloud.com/thinkingbasketball/9-bad-signs-for-ben-simmons-and-donovan-mitchell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x3-B4ogAqA

[SHAQATTACK]

His next step is to save his body and energy , reduce his work load by making intelligent quick scoring plays and being efficient creating easy buckets for himself and teamates.   This is what I love  most about Haywards game. 

[mmmmm]

I agree. Intelligence and work ethic will hopefully become his calling card, and let's also toss in awareness.

"Being in attack mode" can't be an excuse for not finding open teammates with a better opportunity than yourself. Because soon you have a team full of players stuck in "attack mode" and you then have a group that struggles to get past the next level and can't figure out why. Crisp ball movement causes defensive fatigue for the opposition.

Besides talent, chemistry and balance also wins championships.

Well, the reality is that Jaylen does actually pass the ball - he passed the ball on 57% of his touches.  That's slightly lower percentage than Jayson (63%) and lowest of our 5 players who handled the ball the most, but it's important to also remember that Jaylen physically touches the ball a lot less than Kemba, Jayson, Smart & Gordon while conversely having the highest points-per-touch ratio on the team (in fact, one of the highest in the NBA - just a hair behind Kawhi Leonard in fact). 

The net net is that, Jaylen passes on most of his touches and is being extremely efficient with generating points on the touches that he doesn't pass on.

The goal should be to generate points and at any moment, statistically the team was most likely to get points off a Jaylen touch than anybody else (other than Tacko, of course but his number of touches was tiny so ignoring him).  So arguably, from an optimization standpoint it was better for the team for Jaylen to attempt to score on a higher percentage of his touches.

His role on this offense is primarily to be a finisher.  His role is to BE that 'back door cut' and 'open guy in the corner' and on a points-per-touch basis, he is one of the best in the NBA in that role.  Certainly, improved playmaking is desirable for the longer course of his career.  But he's still very young and with a ton of experience ahead of him within which to grow his game.

[bucknersrevenge]

Yeah, this video is a pretty even-tempered review of Jaylen that falls much in line with my read on Jaylen when I was debating Brown v Simmons. Jaylen can certainly improve from a "skills" perspective (ballhandling, shooting, not fouling on defense, etc). In those areas, he's gonna continue to work hard. What separates those in the higher echelon from him is the ability to make the reads at a quicker pace. Some guys just see the floor better and process what's happening faster than others. I don't know that that is a skill that can be developed much over time. More familiarity within a system and experience can make some reads easier to make but that innate ability to process on the fly (see the open man on the drive, make the backdoor cut when your defender turns his head) I think is something that will forever be somewhat foreign to him. And that's okay. We have Walker, Tatum, Hayward, and Smart to make those reads. Make no mistake, Jaylen can still be an exceptional complement, doing what he does well.

You should also watch/listen his video and podcast about Simmons before you make your conclusion in the Brown vs Simmons debate.
https://soundcloud.com/thinkingbasketball/9-bad-signs-for-ben-simmons-and-donovan-mitchell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x3-B4ogAqA

TP

This was a good watch. I really like this guy's breakdowns. Fun to watch, especially now when I'm starving for content. I think if I was Ben Simmons' coach, I'd want more ballhandlers around him, not less like he has in Philly. He handles and runs like a guard but plays like a big man in the halfcourt. That's fine, You can use that.

If Simmons was in Boston instead of say Jaylen. I'd try to run a TON of this lineup:

pg Kemba
sg Smart
sf Hayward
pf Tatum
C  Simmons

During the regular season they'd be virtually impossible to stop. The positional versatility on defense would be amazing. Sure there are a handful of big bruising bigs that might give them problems but I'd rather make a big work for a contested 2 than give up wide open 3's off penetration. And there aren't enough bigs in the league to punish us like that on a regular basis anyway. With Simmons, Tatum, and Smart, rotations would be on a string.  Slide Theis in and everyone moves down a spot and you lose little there. As the video showed, his ability to guard a big and then rotate onto a small at his size is so unique. He's like a tall Smart in that way.

On offense, in the halfcourt I'd use him like Draymond Green. Grren can stand at the arc and hit guys like Kemba and Hayward off screens and cuts. Off our "horns" sets you could run screen/roll with him and Tatum with either man as the ballhandler or roller. But the key is, with every player on that floor opperating simultaneously as a scorer and distributor defending all of the different actions and options at Brad Stevens disposal would become a virtual impossibility. Even with Simmons' shooting concerns, his ability to find kickouts on a short roll or take the ball straight to the rim would cause havoc with a teams defenses. His cuts are so smart that even off ball the gravity he draws would create wide open looks on the perimeter for the shooters around him to find.If he's on the perimeter, he's not a threat to shoot out there but with the scorers/cutters off ball(read/react) we have, if you don't pressure him, he'd cut defenses to shreads like Tom Brady with a good offensive line. Pressure him and you invite wing PnR action where a scorer like Kemba or Tatum  gets down with momentum heading toward the basket or you leave open Simmons on the roll who from 15 feet can get into an open lane. If the lane optios aren't there that means Hayward or Smart is somewhere open on the perimeter for a wide open look. If the defense rotates back out, Simmons camps at the dunker's spot where Kemba or Smart drive the closeout and Simmons becomes available for a dumpoff or a lob at the rim. We'd have counters for every defense.

If we had Simmons instead of Brown, even if Simmons never took a 3 (and I remain unconvinced that Stevens' wouldn't hold him accountable in ways that Brett Brown is simply ill-equipped to do) in Stevens system, in the halfcourt, in a grab and go fast break where everyone is capable of either filling a lane or making the proper pass, forget it. It would be a wrap. We'd be dominant on both ends. This is why I believe he's more valuable, especially here in Boston with what Brad tries to do at both ends. Simmons is tailor-made for Boston and Brad Stevens.

[Somebody]

Yeah, this video is a pretty even-tempered review of Jaylen that falls much in line with my read on Jaylen when I was debating Brown v Simmons. Jaylen can certainly improve from a "skills" perspective (ballhandling, shooting, not fouling on defense, etc). In those areas, he's gonna continue to work hard. What separates those in the higher echelon from him is the ability to make the reads at a quicker pace. Some guys just see the floor better and process what's happening faster than others. I don't know that that is a skill that can be developed much over time. More familiarity within a system and experience can make some reads easier to make but that innate ability to process on the fly (see the open man on the drive, make the backdoor cut when your defender turns his head) I think is something that will forever be somewhat foreign to him. And that's okay. We have Walker, Tatum, Hayward, and Smart to make those reads. Make no mistake, Jaylen can still be an exceptional complement, doing what he does well.

You should also watch/listen his video and podcast about Simmons before you make your conclusion in the Brown vs Simmons debate.
https://soundcloud.com/thinkingbasketball/9-bad-signs-for-ben-simmons-and-donovan-mitchell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x3-B4ogAqA

TP

This was a good watch. I really like this guy's breakdowns. Fun to watch, especially now when I'm starving for content. I think if I was Ben Simmons' coach, I'd want more ballhandlers around him, not less like he has in Philly. He handles and runs like a guard but plays like a big man in the halfcourt. That's fine, You can use that.

If Simmons was in Boston instead of say Jaylen. I'd try to run a TON of this lineup:

pg Kemba
sg Smart
sf Hayward
pf Tatum
C  Simmons

During the regular season they'd be virtually impossible to stop. The positional versatility on defense would be amazing. Sure there are a handful of big bruising bigs that might give them problems but I'd rather make a big work for a contested 2 than give up wide open 3's off penetration. And there aren't enough bigs in the league to punish us like that on a regular basis anyway. With Simmons, Tatum, and Smart, rotations would be on a string.  Slide Theis in and everyone moves down a spot and you lose little there. As the video showed, his ability to guard a big and then rotate onto a small at his size is so unique. He's like a tall Smart in that way.

On offense, in the halfcourt I'd use him like Draymond Green. Grren can stand at the arc and hit guys like Kemba and Hayward off screens and cuts. Off our "horns" sets you could run screen/roll with him and Tatum with either man as the ballhandler or roller. But the key is, with every player on that floor opperating simultaneously as a scorer and distributor defending all of the different actions and options at Brad Stevens disposal would become a virtual impossibility. Even with Simmons' shooting concerns, his ability to find kickouts on a short roll or take the ball straight to the rim would cause havoc with a teams defenses. His cuts are so smart that even off ball the gravity he draws would create wide open looks on the perimeter for the shooters around him to find.If he's on the perimeter, he's not a threat to shoot out there but with the scorers/cutters off ball(read/react) we have, if you don't pressure him, he'd cut defenses to shreads like Tom Brady with a good offensive line. Pressure him and you invite wing PnR action where a scorer like Kemba or Tatum  gets down with momentum heading toward the basket or you leave open Simmons on the roll who from 15 feet can get into an open lane. If the lane optios aren't there that means Hayward or Smart is somewhere open on the perimeter for a wide open look. If the defense rotates back out, Simmons camps at the dunker's spot where Kemba or Smart drive the closeout and Simmons becomes available for a dumpoff or a lob at the rim. We'd have counters for every defense.

If we had Simmons instead of Brown, even if Simmons never took a 3 (and I remain unconvinced that Stevens' wouldn't hold him accountable in ways that Brett Brown is simply ill-equipped to do) in Stevens system, in the halfcourt, in a grab and go fast break where everyone is capable of either filling a lane or making the proper pass, forget it. It would be a wrap. We'd be dominant on both ends. This is why I believe he's more valuable, especially here in Boston with what Brad tries to do at both ends. Simmons is tailor-made for Boston and Brad Stevens.

TP for the well-written post, I agree with most of the stuff in it. I think Simmons is better than Brown right now and is more valuable to this Boston squad, but I think Jaylen's contract and potential ceiling (his studiousness can really help him make another leap that would start separating him from Simmons imo) holds value in the long run when we're looking at Tatum as our main guy and want to have another All-Star/All-NBA wing who can defend, shoot and create to pair with him as Kemba and Hayward age. I would probably reluctantly do a straight swap, but the proposed deal of Brown and Hayward for Simmons, Richardson and Scott stinks to me.

[KGs Knee]

Bleh, yet another 'Celtics' thread that has turned into a discussion about Ben Simmons.  Discuss Simmons all you want, but at least do it in an appropriate thread.

Interesting piece on Jaylen Brown, though.  Some good stuff in there.

[bucknersrevenge]

Bleh, yet another 'Celtics' thread that has turned into a discussion about Ben Simmons.  Discuss Simmons all you want, but at least do it in an appropriate thread.

Interesting piece on Jaylen Brown, though.  Some good stuff in there.

Apologies. I'll own that. Somebody and I had a really good debate about a proposed deal in another thread. Tell me what you liked about that piece if you don't mind.

[Somebody]

Bleh, yet another 'Celtics' thread that has turned into a discussion about Ben Simmons.  Discuss Simmons all you want, but at least do it in an appropriate thread.

Interesting piece on Jaylen Brown, though.  Some good stuff in there.

Apologies. I'll own that. Somebody and I had a really good debate about a proposed deal in another thread. Tell me what you liked about that piece if you don't mind.

^^^