What does our roster look like next year?

[Moranis]

There's a new trade suggestion going on around the webs...

Ben Simmons, Josh Richardson and Mike Scott for Jaylen Brown, Gordon Hayward, a few picks

You mean anti-Celtics communities? That trade is horrendous for us.

I wouldn't call that horrendous.  It would be an interesting Celtics lineup and would make Simmons a PF and move Tatum back to his more natural SF spot.  And which I think Simmons at PF is intriguing, I'm not sure I would want to see if it would work on the C's, but if it did it would be such a match-up nightmare for opposing teams having a PF with Simmons ball skills.  It would also ease some of the future uncertainty regarding the cap.

Just for fun, this would be the C's lineup post that trade.

PG - Walker, Wanamaker, Edwards, Waters
SG - Richardson, Smart
SF - Tatum, Langford, Ojeleye
PF - Simmons, Scott, G. Williams
C - Theis, Kanter, R. Williams

If Simmons actually worked as a PF and well with Tatum at SF, I think that team could be very interesting (and that duo would have a chance to be an all time great duo), and could certainly win the title if it came together well.  Probably could use a stretch center to allow Simmons more free reign in the paint, but I think that team would have real championship potential if it came together well.

I would, Jaylen Brown and Gordon Hayward are more valuable than Simmons, Richardson and Scott. That's not even factoring in us sending draft capital lol.

And I think that trade would actually lower our ceiling, getting a point forward who can't really shoot or lead a half court offence (think a homeless man's Draymond/Giannis hybrid) and a 3 and D wing in Richardson (albeit quite good with some extra passing skills) is not enough to make up us for losing a strong wing creator in Hayward and a nice two way wing in Brown.

Simmons is the best player in that trade and he is signed long term.  And I'm not the only one that thinks Simmons is the best player in that trade as the coaches selected him over both Brown and Hayward for the all star team this year.  Also, I don't think Boston is keeping Hayward past the next season as it doesn't work well financially so he is a 1 year player as I see it, while Richardson would be much cheaper to keep past next season so there is a far greater likelihood he sticks around without destroying the financials of the team.  I don't put much stock in 27 or 30, and assumed that would be the draft capital.  Frankly, I don't think Boston keeps either of those picks anyway as there just isn't room on the roster for 2 more late 1st round picks. 

Again, I'm not sure Simmons at PF will work, but if it does I think Boston would raise its ceiling in that trade, especially as I don't think Hayward sticks around for much longer (it just doesn't work financially).

[OldSchoolDude]

There's a new trade suggestion going on around the webs...

Ben Simmons, Josh Richardson and Mike Scott for Jaylen Brown, Gordon Hayward, a few picks

You mean anti-Celtics communities? That trade is horrendous for us.

I wouldn't call that horrendous.  It would be an interesting Celtics lineup and would make Simmons a PF and move Tatum back to his more natural SF spot.  And which I think Simmons at PF is intriguing, I'm not sure I would want to see if it would work on the C's, but if it did it would be such a match-up nightmare for opposing teams having a PF with Simmons ball skills.  It would also ease some of the future uncertainty regarding the cap.

Just for fun, this would be the C's lineup post that trade.

PG - Walker, Wanamaker, Edwards, Waters
SG - Richardson, Smart
SF - Tatum, Langford, Ojeleye
PF - Simmons, Scott, G. Williams
C - Theis, Kanter, R. Williams

If Simmons actually worked as a PF and well with Tatum at SF, I think that team could be very interesting (and that duo would have a chance to be an all time great duo), and could certainly win the title if it came together well.  Probably could use a stretch center to allow Simmons more free reign in the paint, but I think that team would have real championship potential if it came together well.

I would, Jaylen Brown and Gordon Hayward are more valuable than Simmons, Richardson and Scott. That's not even factoring in us sending draft capital lol.

And I think that trade would actually lower our ceiling, getting a point forward who can't really shoot or lead a half court offence (think a homeless man's Draymond/Giannis hybrid) and a 3 and D wing in Richardson (albeit quite good with some extra passing skills) is not enough to make up us for losing a strong wing creator in Hayward and a nice two way wing in Brown.

Simmons is the best player in that trade and he is signed long term.  And I'm not the only one that thinks Simmons is the best player in that trade as the coaches selected him over both Brown and Hayward for the all star team this year.  Also, I don't think Boston is keeping Hayward past the next season as it doesn't work well financially so he is a 1 year player as I see it, while Richardson would be much cheaper to keep past next season so there is a far greater likelihood he sticks around without destroying the financials of the team.  I don't put much stock in 27 or 30, and assumed that would be the draft capital.  Frankly, I don't think Boston keeps either of those picks anyway as there just isn't room on the roster for 2 more late 1st round picks. 

Again, I'm not sure Simmons at PF will work, but if it does I think Boston would raise its ceiling in that trade, especially as I don't think Hayward sticks around for much longer (it just doesn't work financially).

Simmons at PF is a fail.   He is only effective when he has the ball and can drive to the rim or pass.  He has to be the PG.  He sucks playing off ball because he is no threat to shoot.

[Moranis]

There's a new trade suggestion going on around the webs...

Ben Simmons, Josh Richardson and Mike Scott for Jaylen Brown, Gordon Hayward, a few picks

You mean anti-Celtics communities? That trade is horrendous for us.

I wouldn't call that horrendous.  It would be an interesting Celtics lineup and would make Simmons a PF and move Tatum back to his more natural SF spot.  And which I think Simmons at PF is intriguing, I'm not sure I would want to see if it would work on the C's, but if it did it would be such a match-up nightmare for opposing teams having a PF with Simmons ball skills.  It would also ease some of the future uncertainty regarding the cap.

Just for fun, this would be the C's lineup post that trade.

PG - Walker, Wanamaker, Edwards, Waters
SG - Richardson, Smart
SF - Tatum, Langford, Ojeleye
PF - Simmons, Scott, G. Williams
C - Theis, Kanter, R. Williams

If Simmons actually worked as a PF and well with Tatum at SF, I think that team could be very interesting (and that duo would have a chance to be an all time great duo), and could certainly win the title if it came together well.  Probably could use a stretch center to allow Simmons more free reign in the paint, but I think that team would have real championship potential if it came together well.

I would, Jaylen Brown and Gordon Hayward are more valuable than Simmons, Richardson and Scott. That's not even factoring in us sending draft capital lol.

And I think that trade would actually lower our ceiling, getting a point forward who can't really shoot or lead a half court offence (think a homeless man's Draymond/Giannis hybrid) and a 3 and D wing in Richardson (albeit quite good with some extra passing skills) is not enough to make up us for losing a strong wing creator in Hayward and a nice two way wing in Brown.

Simmons is the best player in that trade and he is signed long term.  And I'm not the only one that thinks Simmons is the best player in that trade as the coaches selected him over both Brown and Hayward for the all star team this year.  Also, I don't think Boston is keeping Hayward past the next season as it doesn't work well financially so he is a 1 year player as I see it, while Richardson would be much cheaper to keep past next season so there is a far greater likelihood he sticks around without destroying the financials of the team.  I don't put much stock in 27 or 30, and assumed that would be the draft capital.  Frankly, I don't think Boston keeps either of those picks anyway as there just isn't room on the roster for 2 more late 1st round picks. 

Again, I'm not sure Simmons at PF will work, but if it does I think Boston would raise its ceiling in that trade, especially as I don't think Hayward sticks around for much longer (it just doesn't work financially).

Simmons at PF is a fail.   He is only effective when he has the ball and can drive to the rim or pass.  He has to be the PG.  He sucks playing off ball because he is no threat to shoot.

who said he had to play off the ball.  I think you could absolutely run your offense through Simmons in the paint, very similar to what Milwaukee does with Giannis.  I think that has the potential to be an incredible match-up nightmare for opposing teams.  I think that is what Philly should be doing, but it is complicated because of Embiid and both Embiid and Simmons needing a lot of the same space on the floor.  I mean Boston could trot out a lineup of Walker, Smart, Richardson, Tatum, and Simmons for times and I don't think that lineup offensively could be stopped and they are good enough defensively that it would work against most teams.  The simple reality is most teams have players that don't have 3 point range on the floor at all times.  Philly's problem is they have multiple such players and are trying to play a near 7 footer as a PG.  A few years ago, Philly was among the best offenses in the league, but they stopped playing to Embiid and Simmons' strengths and tried to update talent, but not fit.  They got rid of the shooters they had and the team has not been the same since.  I think Stevens would absolutely get the most out of Simmons.  In fact, I think he would love to have someone like Simmons who has unicorn athleticism for his size. 

[OldSchoolDude]

There's a new trade suggestion going on around the webs...

Ben Simmons, Josh Richardson and Mike Scott for Jaylen Brown, Gordon Hayward, a few picks

You mean anti-Celtics communities? That trade is horrendous for us.

I wouldn't call that horrendous.  It would be an interesting Celtics lineup and would make Simmons a PF and move Tatum back to his more natural SF spot.  And which I think Simmons at PF is intriguing, I'm not sure I would want to see if it would work on the C's, but if it did it would be such a match-up nightmare for opposing teams having a PF with Simmons ball skills.  It would also ease some of the future uncertainty regarding the cap.

Just for fun, this would be the C's lineup post that trade.

PG - Walker, Wanamaker, Edwards, Waters
SG - Richardson, Smart
SF - Tatum, Langford, Ojeleye
PF - Simmons, Scott, G. Williams
C - Theis, Kanter, R. Williams

If Simmons actually worked as a PF and well with Tatum at SF, I think that team could be very interesting (and that duo would have a chance to be an all time great duo), and could certainly win the title if it came together well.  Probably could use a stretch center to allow Simmons more free reign in the paint, but I think that team would have real championship potential if it came together well.

I would, Jaylen Brown and Gordon Hayward are more valuable than Simmons, Richardson and Scott. That's not even factoring in us sending draft capital lol.

And I think that trade would actually lower our ceiling, getting a point forward who can't really shoot or lead a half court offence (think a homeless man's Draymond/Giannis hybrid) and a 3 and D wing in Richardson (albeit quite good with some extra passing skills) is not enough to make up us for losing a strong wing creator in Hayward and a nice two way wing in Brown.

Simmons is the best player in that trade and he is signed long term.  And I'm not the only one that thinks Simmons is the best player in that trade as the coaches selected him over both Brown and Hayward for the all star team this year.  Also, I don't think Boston is keeping Hayward past the next season as it doesn't work well financially so he is a 1 year player as I see it, while Richardson would be much cheaper to keep past next season so there is a far greater likelihood he sticks around without destroying the financials of the team.  I don't put much stock in 27 or 30, and assumed that would be the draft capital.  Frankly, I don't think Boston keeps either of those picks anyway as there just isn't room on the roster for 2 more late 1st round picks. 

Again, I'm not sure Simmons at PF will work, but if it does I think Boston would raise its ceiling in that trade, especially as I don't think Hayward sticks around for much longer (it just doesn't work financially).

Simmons at PF is a fail.   He is only effective when he has the ball and can drive to the rim or pass.  He has to be the PG.  He sucks playing off ball because he is no threat to shoot.

who said he had to play off the ball.  I think you could absolutely run your offense through Simmons in the paint, very similar to what Milwaukee does with Giannis.  I think that has the potential to be an incredible match-up nightmare for opposing teams.  I think that is what Philly should be doing, but it is complicated because of Embiid and both Embiid and Simmons needing a lot of the same space on the floor.  I mean Boston could trot out a lineup of Walker, Smart, Richardson, Tatum, and Simmons for times and I don't think that lineup offensively could be stopped and they are good enough defensively that it would work against most teams.  The simple reality is most teams have players that don't have 3 point range on the floor at all times.  Philly's problem is they have multiple such players and are trying to play a near 7 footer as a PG.  A few years ago, Philly was among the best offenses in the league, but they stopped playing to Embiid and Simmons' strengths and tried to update talent, but not fit.  They got rid of the shooters they had and the team has not been the same since.  I think Stevens would absolutely get the most out of Simmons.  In fact, I think he would love to have someone like Simmons who has unicorn athleticism for his size.

Philly had legit shooters then.  Simmons would kill it in transition and in the half court he wold hold the ball like Rondo, then drive to the rim and kick out to an open three.   Simmons looked amazing then they played us and we took away the transition game and cut off his driving lanes in the half court.  He looked awful.  Philly as a team played better with Simmons on the bench and McConnell running the point.   Simmons off ball is basically a 4 on 5 half court game because he doesn't even have a mid range shot.  Simmons has a motivation problem and hasn't really improved his game over the last 4 years.  He feasts on bad defensive teams and exploits mismatches but has done nothing to work on the areas that let him get shut down by good defensive teams.  He really isn't any better then he was his rookie year.   I'd rather have Embiid.   I have no interest in Josh Richardson or Mike Scott, I like Langford and G. Williams better than them as rookies. 

[Jvalin]

There's a new trade suggestion going on around the webs...

Ben Simmons, Josh Richardson and Mike Scott for Jaylen Brown, Gordon Hayward, a few picks

Here's the original source

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2887300-bizarro-world-nba-trades-for-bizarre-times

The actual proposed trade is this

Boston Celtics receive: Ben Simmons, Josh Richardson, Mike Scott

Philadelphia 76ers receive: Gordon Hayward, Jaylen Brown, Romeo Langford, 2020 first-round pick (top-six protected, via MEM)

which is ridiculous cause it's not even a valid trade idea. The Celtics send $61,702,214 in salary (without even including the Memphis pick) and the Sixers send $44,621,302. Salary-wise, it doesn't work.

That being said, I'm high on Simmons. Really love what the Bucks are doing the last couple of seasons with 4 shooters stretching the floor and Giannis running the show as a point forward. Only other player in the league being able to step into Giannis' shoes would be Simmons. They are both close to 7 feet tall. They are both bad shooters, but elite slashers. They both have great court vision (Simmons is better than Giannis in this regard). They are both elite defenders. If you ask me, Simmons surrounded by 4 shooters would instantly transform into an MVP candidate.

Assuming Simmons becomes available, I'd be willing to offer Philly either Kemba or Brown, plus pick(s). Highly doubt the Sixers would do it, but the C's have zero incentive to overpay for Simmons. I mean, it's not the C's that are a dysfunctional team (not since Kyrie left anyway). At the end of the day, I'm happy with our current backcourt.

Let's say we make the 2 following trades:
1. Kemba + pick(s)? to Philly for Simmons
2. Smart + Poirier (salary filler) to Indy for Myles Turner (we would need a stretch 5 to put next to Simmons)

starting lineup after the trades

Simmons (6'10'')
Brown (6'6'')
Hayward (6'7'')
Tatum (6'8'')
Turner (6'11)

Four above average shooters at their respective positions + Simmons running the point.

Amazing defensive potential as well. Shortest guy in our starting lineup would be Brown at 6'6". Simmons and Turner are quick enough to play D on the perimeter. We would just switch every ball screen. I bet the C's would be the best defensive team in the league.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

There's a new trade suggestion going on around the webs...

Ben Simmons, Josh Richardson and Mike Scott for Jaylen Brown, Gordon Hayward, a few picks

Here's the original source

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2887300-bizarro-world-nba-trades-for-bizarre-times

The actual proposed trade is this

Boston Celtics receive: Ben Simmons, Josh Richardson, Mike Scott

Philadelphia 76ers receive: Gordon Hayward, Jaylen Brown, Romeo Langford, 2020 first-round pick (top-six protected, via MEM)

which is ridiculous cause it's not even a valid trade idea. The Celtics send $61,702,214 in salary (without even including the Memphis pick) and the Sixers send $44,621,302. Salary-wise, it doesn't work.

That being said, I'm high on Simmons. Really love what the Bucks are doing the last couple of seasons with 4 shooters stretching the floor and Giannis running the show as a point forward. Only other player in the league being able to step into Giannis' shoes would be Simmons. They are both close to 7 feet tall. They are both bad shooters, but elite slashers. They both have great court vision (Simmons is better than Giannis in this regard). They are both elite defenders. If you ask me, Simmons surrounded by 4 shooters would instantly transform into an MVP candidate.

Assuming Simmons becomes available, I'd be willing to offer Philly either Kemba or Brown, plus pick(s). Highly doubt the Sixers would do it, but the C's have zero incentive to overpay for Simmons. I mean, it's not the C's that are a dysfunctional team (not since Kyrie left anyway). At the end of the day, I'm happy with our current backcourt.

Let's say we make the 2 following trades:
1. Kemba + pick(s)? to Philly for Simmons
2. Smart + Poirier (salary filler) to Indy for Myles Turner (we would need a stretch 5 to put next to Simmons)

starting lineup after the trades

Simmons (6'10'')
Brown (6'6'')
Hayward (6'7'')
Tatum (6'8'')
Turner (6'11)

Four above average shooters at their respective positions + Simmons running the point.

Amazing defensive potential as well. Shortest guy in our starting lineup would be Brown at 6'6". Simmons and Turner are quick enough to play D on the perimeter. We would just switch every ball screen. I bet the C's would be the best defensive team in the league.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I think Richardson is a free agent this off-season too. We'll see how the salary cap works out, but I find it unlikely that Philly will retain him considering the dearth of free agents out there and the money that some teams have. He might be a nice fit next to Trae Young, for example.

Without knowing his personality and mental game, I see Simmons as one of the most talented and athletic players in the NBA. He has the real potential to be an MVP on the right team. He could put up 20-12-12 numbers with high level defense in the right situation.

Still, I like Jaylen Brown too much to trade him away to a rival. He's a special player and a special young man that works hard.

I think Kemba and picks makes a lot of sense for both teams. I think Simmons value is down right now, and trading an All-star point guard with some picks might move everything into place for the Sixers. For the Cs, it makes them more versatile and gives them higher upside. I think Simmons, Brown, and Tatum would enjoy playing with one another.

[Jvalin]

Without knowing his personality and mental game, I see Simmons as one of the most talented and athletic players in the NBA. He has the real potential to be an MVP on the right team. He could put up 20-12-12 numbers with high level defense in the right situation.

Fwiw, Embiid missed 9 straight games in January 2020. In those 9 games, Simmons averaged 21.6 points (on 65.3% from the floor), 9.3 rebounds, 7.9 assists, 3 turnovers, 2.3 steals and 0.3 blocks.

In the 17 games (including game 3 of the 1st round) he played without Embiid last season, he averaged 20.9/10.3/7.5 along with 1.8 steals and 1.2 blocks on 55.3% from the field.

--------------------------------------------------------------

On second thought, why not use Simmons as a Point Center? I mean, can you guys think of a Center that he wouldn't be able to defend in today's game? Maybe strong players like Drummond, but who cares? If your #1 strategy is to feed Drummond in the low post, that's a recipe for disaster.

Defense
PG: Smart
SG: Brown
SF: Hayward
PF: Tatum
C: Simmons

Offense
PG: Simmons
PG: Smart (secondary creator who mostly plays off the ball)
SG: Brown
SF: Hayward
PF: Tatum
C: Nobody, but I could see Simmons setting picks whenever he's off the ball and then rolling to the basket. Would love to watch the Smart-Simmons pick n roll!

It could work, assuming that Smart maintaines his shooting form from the perimeter (36.4% last season, 34.8% this season). If not, we'd probably have to replace him with a PG who's a deadly shooter and is happy to play off the ball. Let's say someone in the mold of McCollum, Brogdon, Beverley, prime George Hill (off the top of my head). Wanamaker fits the description as well, but he ain't good enough to be a starter.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I think Richardson is a free agent this off-season too. We'll see how the salary cap works out, but I find it unlikely that Philly will retain him considering the dearth of free agents out there and the money that some teams have. He might be a nice fit next to Trae Young, for example.

He has a guaranteed contract for next season and a player option for the season after that.

2019-2020: $10,116,576
2020-2021: $10,865,952
2021-2022: $11,615,328 (player option)

Btw, I'm a fan of Richardson's game. Would love to see him in green someday. He's a very useful role player.

[gouki88]

There's a new trade suggestion going on around the webs...

Ben Simmons, Josh Richardson and Mike Scott for Jaylen Brown, Gordon Hayward, a few picks

You mean anti-Celtics communities? That trade is horrendous for us.

I wouldn't call that horrendous.  It would be an interesting Celtics lineup and would make Simmons a PF and move Tatum back to his more natural SF spot.  And which I think Simmons at PF is intriguing, I'm not sure I would want to see if it would work on the C's, but if it did it would be such a match-up nightmare for opposing teams having a PF with Simmons ball skills.  It would also ease some of the future uncertainty regarding the cap.

Just for fun, this would be the C's lineup post that trade.

PG - Walker, Wanamaker, Edwards, Waters
SG - Richardson, Smart
SF - Tatum, Langford, Ojeleye
PF - Simmons, Scott, G. Williams
C - Theis, Kanter, R. Williams

If Simmons actually worked as a PF and well with Tatum at SF, I think that team could be very interesting (and that duo would have a chance to be an all time great duo), and could certainly win the title if it came together well.  Probably could use a stretch center to allow Simmons more free reign in the paint, but I think that team would have real championship potential if it came together well.

I would, Jaylen Brown and Gordon Hayward are more valuable than Simmons, Richardson and Scott. That's not even factoring in us sending draft capital lol.

And I think that trade would actually lower our ceiling, getting a point forward who can't really shoot or lead a half court offence (think a homeless man's Draymond/Giannis hybrid) and a 3 and D wing in Richardson (albeit quite good with some extra passing skills) is not enough to make up us for losing a strong wing creator in Hayward and a nice two way wing in Brown.

Simmons is the best player in that trade and he is signed long term.  And I'm not the only one that thinks Simmons is the best player in that trade as the coaches selected him over both Brown and Hayward for the all star team this year.  Also, I don't think Boston is keeping Hayward past the next season as it doesn't work well financially so he is a 1 year player as I see it, while Richardson would be much cheaper to keep past next season so there is a far greater likelihood he sticks around without destroying the financials of the team.  I don't put much stock in 27 or 30, and assumed that would be the draft capital.  Frankly, I don't think Boston keeps either of those picks anyway as there just isn't room on the roster for 2 more late 1st round picks. 

Again, I'm not sure Simmons at PF will work, but if it does I think Boston would raise its ceiling in that trade, especially as I don't think Hayward sticks around for much longer (it just doesn't work financially).

No, Simmons is not. And being an All-Star =/= being more valuable to us - that is the mother of all lazy analysis. So many All-Stars who I wouldn’t trade those two for. Brown is probably an All-Star with no injuries - Hayward would be close too

[Moranis]

There's a new trade suggestion going on around the webs...

Ben Simmons, Josh Richardson and Mike Scott for Jaylen Brown, Gordon Hayward, a few picks

You mean anti-Celtics communities? That trade is horrendous for us.

I wouldn't call that horrendous.  It would be an interesting Celtics lineup and would make Simmons a PF and move Tatum back to his more natural SF spot.  And which I think Simmons at PF is intriguing, I'm not sure I would want to see if it would work on the C's, but if it did it would be such a match-up nightmare for opposing teams having a PF with Simmons ball skills.  It would also ease some of the future uncertainty regarding the cap.

Just for fun, this would be the C's lineup post that trade.

PG - Walker, Wanamaker, Edwards, Waters
SG - Richardson, Smart
SF - Tatum, Langford, Ojeleye
PF - Simmons, Scott, G. Williams
C - Theis, Kanter, R. Williams

If Simmons actually worked as a PF and well with Tatum at SF, I think that team could be very interesting (and that duo would have a chance to be an all time great duo), and could certainly win the title if it came together well.  Probably could use a stretch center to allow Simmons more free reign in the paint, but I think that team would have real championship potential if it came together well.

I would, Jaylen Brown and Gordon Hayward are more valuable than Simmons, Richardson and Scott. That's not even factoring in us sending draft capital lol.

And I think that trade would actually lower our ceiling, getting a point forward who can't really shoot or lead a half court offence (think a homeless man's Draymond/Giannis hybrid) and a 3 and D wing in Richardson (albeit quite good with some extra passing skills) is not enough to make up us for losing a strong wing creator in Hayward and a nice two way wing in Brown.

Simmons is the best player in that trade and he is signed long term.  And I'm not the only one that thinks Simmons is the best player in that trade as the coaches selected him over both Brown and Hayward for the all star team this year.  Also, I don't think Boston is keeping Hayward past the next season as it doesn't work well financially so he is a 1 year player as I see it, while Richardson would be much cheaper to keep past next season so there is a far greater likelihood he sticks around without destroying the financials of the team.  I don't put much stock in 27 or 30, and assumed that would be the draft capital.  Frankly, I don't think Boston keeps either of those picks anyway as there just isn't room on the roster for 2 more late 1st round picks. 

Again, I'm not sure Simmons at PF will work, but if it does I think Boston would raise its ceiling in that trade, especially as I don't think Hayward sticks around for much longer (it just doesn't work financially).

No, Simmons is not. And being an All-Star =/= being more valuable to us - that is the mother of all lazy analysis. So many All-Stars who I wouldn’t trade those two for. Brown is probably an All-Star with no injuries - Hayward would be close too

Simmons is the best player in that trade.  He also has the biggest upside.  He is the best rebounder and passer by wide margins.  He is also the most efficient scorer of the group (obviously limited range, but still has a TS% at around 61% which is better than Brown or Hayward).  Simmons is a comparable defender to Brown, both are much better than Hayward on that end.  His WS, VORP, BMP, ORTG, DRTG, etc. are all better than either Brown or Hayward.  Not to mention he is the most physically gifted given his size, athleticism, and skillset.  I get why this board dumps on all things Philly, but Simmons is a special talent, neither Brown nor Hayward is. 

[gouki88]

There's a new trade suggestion going on around the webs...

Ben Simmons, Josh Richardson and Mike Scott for Jaylen Brown, Gordon Hayward, a few picks

You mean anti-Celtics communities? That trade is horrendous for us.

I wouldn't call that horrendous.  It would be an interesting Celtics lineup and would make Simmons a PF and move Tatum back to his more natural SF spot.  And which I think Simmons at PF is intriguing, I'm not sure I would want to see if it would work on the C's, but if it did it would be such a match-up nightmare for opposing teams having a PF with Simmons ball skills.  It would also ease some of the future uncertainty regarding the cap.

Just for fun, this would be the C's lineup post that trade.

PG - Walker, Wanamaker, Edwards, Waters
SG - Richardson, Smart
SF - Tatum, Langford, Ojeleye
PF - Simmons, Scott, G. Williams
C - Theis, Kanter, R. Williams

If Simmons actually worked as a PF and well with Tatum at SF, I think that team could be very interesting (and that duo would have a chance to be an all time great duo), and could certainly win the title if it came together well.  Probably could use a stretch center to allow Simmons more free reign in the paint, but I think that team would have real championship potential if it came together well.

I would, Jaylen Brown and Gordon Hayward are more valuable than Simmons, Richardson and Scott. That's not even factoring in us sending draft capital lol.

And I think that trade would actually lower our ceiling, getting a point forward who can't really shoot or lead a half court offence (think a homeless man's Draymond/Giannis hybrid) and a 3 and D wing in Richardson (albeit quite good with some extra passing skills) is not enough to make up us for losing a strong wing creator in Hayward and a nice two way wing in Brown.

Simmons is the best player in that trade and he is signed long term.  And I'm not the only one that thinks Simmons is the best player in that trade as the coaches selected him over both Brown and Hayward for the all star team this year.  Also, I don't think Boston is keeping Hayward past the next season as it doesn't work well financially so he is a 1 year player as I see it, while Richardson would be much cheaper to keep past next season so there is a far greater likelihood he sticks around without destroying the financials of the team.  I don't put much stock in 27 or 30, and assumed that would be the draft capital.  Frankly, I don't think Boston keeps either of those picks anyway as there just isn't room on the roster for 2 more late 1st round picks. 

Again, I'm not sure Simmons at PF will work, but if it does I think Boston would raise its ceiling in that trade, especially as I don't think Hayward sticks around for much longer (it just doesn't work financially).

No, Simmons is not. And being an All-Star =/= being more valuable to us - that is the mother of all lazy analysis. So many All-Stars who I wouldn’t trade those two for. Brown is probably an All-Star with no injuries - Hayward would be close too

Simmons is the best player in that trade.  He also has the biggest upside.  He is the best rebounder and passer by wide margins.  He is also the most efficient scorer of the group (obviously limited range, but still has a TS% at around 61% which is better than Brown or Hayward).  Simmons is a comparable defender to Brown, both are much better than Hayward on that end.  His WS, VORP, BMP, ORTG, DRTG, etc. are all better than either Brown or Hayward.  Not to mention he is the most physically gifted given his size, athleticism, and skillset.  I get why this board dumps on all things Philly, but Simmons is a special talent, neither Brown nor Hayward is.

I know that you love to bury Celtic talent in favour of opposition talent, especially rival talent, so I'm not really going to engage anymore. Simmons is not a special talent, unless by special you mean especially outdated. He has the worst range for any non-center in the league, and doesn't have the ability to be even close to a dominant scorer.

Brown is a better scorer and defender than him. Simmons is highly overrated on that end. Brown is also on a much nicer contract, and has shown an actual ability to play alongside our guys. I think Simmons would completely fail in that regard.

You also fall into the trap of overrating Simmons' passing. He is a really average half-court passer, and struggles to take a backseat as a passer. Further, his off-ball offence is really unimpressive. He relies on fast-breaks to get assists. So I don't even think he brings more passing value to the team compared to Hayward, who helps by being great off-ball and being a good shooter from every level. You also can't play Simmons late-game.

[Somebody]

There's a new trade suggestion going on around the webs...

Ben Simmons, Josh Richardson and Mike Scott for Jaylen Brown, Gordon Hayward, a few picks

You mean anti-Celtics communities? That trade is horrendous for us.

I wouldn't call that horrendous.  It would be an interesting Celtics lineup and would make Simmons a PF and move Tatum back to his more natural SF spot.  And which I think Simmons at PF is intriguing, I'm not sure I would want to see if it would work on the C's, but if it did it would be such a match-up nightmare for opposing teams having a PF with Simmons ball skills.  It would also ease some of the future uncertainty regarding the cap.

Just for fun, this would be the C's lineup post that trade.

PG - Walker, Wanamaker, Edwards, Waters
SG - Richardson, Smart
SF - Tatum, Langford, Ojeleye
PF - Simmons, Scott, G. Williams
C - Theis, Kanter, R. Williams

If Simmons actually worked as a PF and well with Tatum at SF, I think that team could be very interesting (and that duo would have a chance to be an all time great duo), and could certainly win the title if it came together well.  Probably could use a stretch center to allow Simmons more free reign in the paint, but I think that team would have real championship potential if it came together well.

I would, Jaylen Brown and Gordon Hayward are more valuable than Simmons, Richardson and Scott. That's not even factoring in us sending draft capital lol.

And I think that trade would actually lower our ceiling, getting a point forward who can't really shoot or lead a half court offence (think a homeless man's Draymond/Giannis hybrid) and a 3 and D wing in Richardson (albeit quite good with some extra passing skills) is not enough to make up us for losing a strong wing creator in Hayward and a nice two way wing in Brown.

Simmons is the best player in that trade and he is signed long term.  And I'm not the only one that thinks Simmons is the best player in that trade as the coaches selected him over both Brown and Hayward for the all star team this year.  Also, I don't think Boston is keeping Hayward past the next season as it doesn't work well financially so he is a 1 year player as I see it, while Richardson would be much cheaper to keep past next season so there is a far greater likelihood he sticks around without destroying the financials of the team.  I don't put much stock in 27 or 30, and assumed that would be the draft capital.  Frankly, I don't think Boston keeps either of those picks anyway as there just isn't room on the roster for 2 more late 1st round picks. 

Again, I'm not sure Simmons at PF will work, but if it does I think Boston would raise its ceiling in that trade, especially as I don't think Hayward sticks around for much longer (it just doesn't work financially).

No, Simmons is not. And being an All-Star =/= being more valuable to us - that is the mother of all lazy analysis. So many All-Stars who I wouldn’t trade those two for. Brown is probably an All-Star with no injuries - Hayward would be close too

Simmons is the best player in that trade.  He also has the biggest upside.  He is the best rebounder and passer by wide margins.  He is also the most efficient scorer of the group (obviously limited range, but still has a TS% at around 61% which is better than Brown or Hayward).  Simmons is a comparable defender to Brown, both are much better than Hayward on that end.  His WS, VORP, BMP, ORTG, DRTG, etc. are all better than either Brown or Hayward.  Not to mention he is the most physically gifted given his size, athleticism, and skillset.  I get why this board dumps on all things Philly, but Simmons is a special talent, neither Brown nor Hayward is.

I know that you love to bury Celtic talent in favour of opposition talent, especially rival talent, so I'm not really going to engage anymore. Simmons is not a special talent, unless by special you mean especially outdated. He has the worst range for any non-center in the league, and doesn't have the ability to be even close to a dominant scorer.

Brown is a better scorer and defender than him. Simmons is highly overrated on that end. Brown is also on a much nicer contract, and has shown an actual ability to play alongside our guys. I think Simmons would completely fail in that regard.

You also fall into the trap of overrating Simmons' passing. He is a really average half-court passer, and struggles to take a backseat as a passer. Further, his off-ball offence is really unimpressive. He relies on fast-breaks to get assists. So I don't even think he brings more passing value to the team compared to Hayward, who helps by being great off-ball and being a good shooter from every level. You also can't play Simmons late-game.

^^^this, Simmons' box numbers look very gaudy, but looking under the hood to see where those box stats actually come from makes him a low-level All-Star at best with a limited ceiling. That's not the most valuable player in a trade that includes a young two way wing who's around that low All-Star level with a considerably high ceiling and better contract.

[Moranis]

There's a new trade suggestion going on around the webs...

Ben Simmons, Josh Richardson and Mike Scott for Jaylen Brown, Gordon Hayward, a few picks

You mean anti-Celtics communities? That trade is horrendous for us.

I wouldn't call that horrendous.  It would be an interesting Celtics lineup and would make Simmons a PF and move Tatum back to his more natural SF spot.  And which I think Simmons at PF is intriguing, I'm not sure I would want to see if it would work on the C's, but if it did it would be such a match-up nightmare for opposing teams having a PF with Simmons ball skills.  It would also ease some of the future uncertainty regarding the cap.

Just for fun, this would be the C's lineup post that trade.

PG - Walker, Wanamaker, Edwards, Waters
SG - Richardson, Smart
SF - Tatum, Langford, Ojeleye
PF - Simmons, Scott, G. Williams
C - Theis, Kanter, R. Williams

If Simmons actually worked as a PF and well with Tatum at SF, I think that team could be very interesting (and that duo would have a chance to be an all time great duo), and could certainly win the title if it came together well.  Probably could use a stretch center to allow Simmons more free reign in the paint, but I think that team would have real championship potential if it came together well.

I would, Jaylen Brown and Gordon Hayward are more valuable than Simmons, Richardson and Scott. That's not even factoring in us sending draft capital lol.

And I think that trade would actually lower our ceiling, getting a point forward who can't really shoot or lead a half court offence (think a homeless man's Draymond/Giannis hybrid) and a 3 and D wing in Richardson (albeit quite good with some extra passing skills) is not enough to make up us for losing a strong wing creator in Hayward and a nice two way wing in Brown.

Simmons is the best player in that trade and he is signed long term.  And I'm not the only one that thinks Simmons is the best player in that trade as the coaches selected him over both Brown and Hayward for the all star team this year.  Also, I don't think Boston is keeping Hayward past the next season as it doesn't work well financially so he is a 1 year player as I see it, while Richardson would be much cheaper to keep past next season so there is a far greater likelihood he sticks around without destroying the financials of the team.  I don't put much stock in 27 or 30, and assumed that would be the draft capital.  Frankly, I don't think Boston keeps either of those picks anyway as there just isn't room on the roster for 2 more late 1st round picks. 

Again, I'm not sure Simmons at PF will work, but if it does I think Boston would raise its ceiling in that trade, especially as I don't think Hayward sticks around for much longer (it just doesn't work financially).

No, Simmons is not. And being an All-Star =/= being more valuable to us - that is the mother of all lazy analysis. So many All-Stars who I wouldn’t trade those two for. Brown is probably an All-Star with no injuries - Hayward would be close too

Simmons is the best player in that trade.  He also has the biggest upside.  He is the best rebounder and passer by wide margins.  He is also the most efficient scorer of the group (obviously limited range, but still has a TS% at around 61% which is better than Brown or Hayward).  Simmons is a comparable defender to Brown, both are much better than Hayward on that end.  His WS, VORP, BMP, ORTG, DRTG, etc. are all better than either Brown or Hayward.  Not to mention he is the most physically gifted given his size, athleticism, and skillset.  I get why this board dumps on all things Philly, but Simmons is a special talent, neither Brown nor Hayward is.

I know that you love to bury Celtic talent in favour of opposition talent, especially rival talent, so I'm not really going to engage anymore. Simmons is not a special talent, unless by special you mean especially outdated. He has the worst range for any non-center in the league, and doesn't have the ability to be even close to a dominant scorer.

Brown is a better scorer and defender than him. Simmons is highly overrated on that end. Brown is also on a much nicer contract, and has shown an actual ability to play alongside our guys. I think Simmons would completely fail in that regard.

You also fall into the trap of overrating Simmons' passing. He is a really average half-court passer, and struggles to take a backseat as a passer. Further, his off-ball offence is really unimpressive. He relies on fast-breaks to get assists. So I don't even think he brings more passing value to the team compared to Hayward, who helps by being great off-ball and being a good shooter from every level. You also can't play Simmons late-game.

No need for insults.  Simmons is the best player in that trade.  You can ask non-Celtic fans and they will tell you that.  That is why you see places like bleacherreport making trades like the one being discussed.  That is why you see all of the major national sites ranking players that have Simmons ahead of Brown and Hayward.  That is why the coaches selected Simmons over both Brown and Hayward.  The objective statistical factors lead to that conclusion, as do the subjective ones.  Brown absolutely has a better contract than Simmons, but Hayward has the worst contract of the bunch (because either you pay him a ton or your lose him).  It isn't a crazy trade (without Langford and with a couple of lesser 1st's instead of the Memphis one, which is what I originally thought the proposal was).  It depends on what you think of Simmons at PF though, as that would be the key to that trade.  If you believe Simmons will perform well at PF, then that is the type of trade Ainge would at least look at making as it does give the C's another player that has the potential to be truly special (along with Tatum).   Brown is a nice solid wing, but he will never be a truly special player, so unless Tatum hits like a top 3 player in the world level, Boston will never really be a consistent contender with Brown as Tatum's top running mate.  Simmons gives Boston a higher ceiling, because he has a higher ceiling as a top 10ish player in the world type potential (Brown tops out at around top 20ish potential). 

[slamtheking]

There's a new trade suggestion going on around the webs...

Ben Simmons, Josh Richardson and Mike Scott for Jaylen Brown, Gordon Hayward, a few picks

You mean anti-Celtics communities? That trade is horrendous for us.

I wouldn't call that horrendous.  It would be an interesting Celtics lineup and would make Simmons a PF and move Tatum back to his more natural SF spot.  And which I think Simmons at PF is intriguing, I'm not sure I would want to see if it would work on the C's, but if it did it would be such a match-up nightmare for opposing teams having a PF with Simmons ball skills.  It would also ease some of the future uncertainty regarding the cap.

Just for fun, this would be the C's lineup post that trade.

PG - Walker, Wanamaker, Edwards, Waters
SG - Richardson, Smart
SF - Tatum, Langford, Ojeleye
PF - Simmons, Scott, G. Williams
C - Theis, Kanter, R. Williams

If Simmons actually worked as a PF and well with Tatum at SF, I think that team could be very interesting (and that duo would have a chance to be an all time great duo), and could certainly win the title if it came together well.  Probably could use a stretch center to allow Simmons more free reign in the paint, but I think that team would have real championship potential if it came together well.

I would, Jaylen Brown and Gordon Hayward are more valuable than Simmons, Richardson and Scott. That's not even factoring in us sending draft capital lol.

And I think that trade would actually lower our ceiling, getting a point forward who can't really shoot or lead a half court offence (think a homeless man's Draymond/Giannis hybrid) and a 3 and D wing in Richardson (albeit quite good with some extra passing skills) is not enough to make up us for losing a strong wing creator in Hayward and a nice two way wing in Brown.

Simmons is the best player in that trade and he is signed long term.  And I'm not the only one that thinks Simmons is the best player in that trade as the coaches selected him over both Brown and Hayward for the all star team this year.  Also, I don't think Boston is keeping Hayward past the next season as it doesn't work well financially so he is a 1 year player as I see it, while Richardson would be much cheaper to keep past next season so there is a far greater likelihood he sticks around without destroying the financials of the team.  I don't put much stock in 27 or 30, and assumed that would be the draft capital.  Frankly, I don't think Boston keeps either of those picks anyway as there just isn't room on the roster for 2 more late 1st round picks. 

Again, I'm not sure Simmons at PF will work, but if it does I think Boston would raise its ceiling in that trade, especially as I don't think Hayward sticks around for much longer (it just doesn't work financially).

No, Simmons is not. And being an All-Star =/= being more valuable to us - that is the mother of all lazy analysis. So many All-Stars who I wouldn’t trade those two for. Brown is probably an All-Star with no injuries - Hayward would be close too

Simmons is the best player in that trade.  He also has the biggest upside.  He is the best rebounder and passer by wide margins.  He is also the most efficient scorer of the group (obviously limited range, but still has a TS% at around 61% which is better than Brown or Hayward).  Simmons is a comparable defender to Brown, both are much better than Hayward on that end.  His WS, VORP, BMP, ORTG, DRTG, etc. are all better than either Brown or Hayward.  Not to mention he is the most physically gifted given his size, athleticism, and skillset.  I get why this board dumps on all things Philly, but Simmons is a special talent, neither Brown nor Hayward is.

I know that you love to bury Celtic talent in favour of opposition talent, especially rival talent, so I'm not really going to engage anymore. Simmons is not a special talent, unless by special you mean especially outdated. He has the worst range for any non-center in the league, and doesn't have the ability to be even close to a dominant scorer.

Brown is a better scorer and defender than him. Simmons is highly overrated on that end. Brown is also on a much nicer contract, and has shown an actual ability to play alongside our guys. I think Simmons would completely fail in that regard.

You also fall into the trap of overrating Simmons' passing. He is a really average half-court passer, and struggles to take a backseat as a passer. Further, his off-ball offence is really unimpressive. He relies on fast-breaks to get assists. So I don't even think he brings more passing value to the team compared to Hayward, who helps by being great off-ball and being a good shooter from every level. You also can't play Simmons late-game.

No need for insults.  Simmons is the best player in that trade.  You can ask non-Celtic fans and they will tell you that.  That is why you see places like bleacherreport making trades like the one being discussed.  That is why you see all of the major national sites ranking players that have Simmons ahead of Brown and Hayward.  That is why the coaches selected Simmons over both Brown and Hayward.  The objective statistical factors lead to that conclusion, as do the subjective ones.  Brown absolutely has a better contract than Simmons, but Hayward has the worst contract of the bunch (because either you pay him a ton or your lose him).  It isn't a crazy trade (without Langford and with a couple of lesser 1st's instead of the Memphis one, which is what I originally thought the proposal was).  It depends on what you think of Simmons at PF though, as that would be the key to that trade.  If you believe Simmons will perform well at PF, then that is the type of trade Ainge would at least look at making as it does give the C's another player that has the potential to be truly special (along with Tatum).   Brown is a nice solid wing, but he will never be a truly special player, so unless Tatum hits like a top 3 player in the world level, Boston will never really be a consistent contender with Brown as Tatum's top running mate.  Simmons gives Boston a higher ceiling, because he has a higher ceiling as a top 10ish player in the world type potential (Brown tops out at around top 20ish potential). 

he wasn't insulting you.  he just made an observation that most people here have noticed about your postings: C's suck and everyone else is the greatest (simplified for brevity)

I don't care what non-C's fans nor national sites have to offer mostly because when I've looked at them there's a definite anti-Celtic slant to the writings and opinions.  As far as Simmons goes, he's not the best player in that deal.  I'd take Brown all day and if Hayward is back to Utah Hayward, I'd take him too.  Simmons hasn't improved his game since coming into the league.  He's awful in half court offense and his D is only above average if he's got a height advantage over someone who doesn't run all over the court to get open.   He's past the point where people should be pointing to his potential -- he needs to show some progress towards that potential for it to be a reasonable expectation at this point.  Brown has shown constant improvement - I'd rather stick with him over Simmons.

Simmons does not give this team a higher ceiling because he's not growing as a player.  in fact, his inability to be effective in the half court or with the ball out of his hands would set this team back, not move it closer to contention. 

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Guess I agree with Moranis. Right now, Ben Simmons is a better player than Jaylen Brown. He's an all-star. His defense this year was special. He's a better transition player and a much better playmaker for his teammates.

Simmons did take a step forward defensively this year, but other than that, he is basically the same player he was at LSU. The trajectory of his career is not shooting upwards right now. You could blame him, blame the coach, blame the system, blame Embiid, or blame Philly for that.

Because Simmons seems to have largely plateaued, I would not be surprised if Brown ended up being a better player than him in 2-3 years. Brown would have to take another step forward as a defender (he's already in the top 15 wings defensively in the NBA), he would have to take another step forward as a playmaker (getting more open looks for teammates), and he would have to take another step forward as a scorer (not being so inconsistent in his offense and finding ways to stay involved and enforce his will throughout the game). At that point, Brown would be as good or slightly better than Simmons on defense, and would be a comparable offensive player without a serious offensive weakness.

I don't think Ainge will trade Brown. I also don't think its possible for the Cs to trade Hayward. He will be a Celtic the rest of his career, as long as Stevens is in Boston. The plan at this point is to develop Brown and Tatum into all-star, two-way NBA wings and then fill in around them to enhance their strengths and cover their weaknesses.

[Donoghus]

People really think Kemba, Tatum, & Simmons would work together well?