What does our roster look like next year?

[Birdman]

Really think what we have this year is what we get next season plus the 3 firsts..Think Enes and Hayward will return

[Wretch]

Deleted, double post

[Wretch]

I think Wanamaker is replaced by Waters, Green is replaced with a one of the first round picks, Memphis Pick plus a rotation player, Poirier and Edwards are used as salary filler in a trade for someone like Turner. I hope Smart is kept but any trades for established player will likely need his salary for match purposes.

I think Kanter opts out and signs elsewhere.  Can he be used in a sign and trade if the team that wants him wants to preserve their MLE?

Hayward is a the wildcard.  He may opt out and sign an longer contract or he may opt in and go into 2021 when more competitive teams have max slots available.

[jambr380]

I think Wanamaker is replaced by Waters, Green is replaced with a one of the first round picks, Memphis Pick plus a rotation player, Poirier and Edwards are used as salary filler in a trade for someone like Turner. I hope Smart is kept but any trades for established player will likely need his salary for match purposes.

I think Kanter opts out and signs elsewhere.  Can he be used in a sign and trade if the team that wants him wants to preserve their MLE?

Hayward is a the wildcard.  He may opt out and sign an longer contract or he may opt in and go into 2021 when more competitive teams have max slots available.

I would have to think if Hayward opts in, then he is a goner. The Cs just can't afford to go into the tax this summer - it makes no sense since they will be so close staying under. He will have shown he is a useful player so teams may be more willing to offer the Cs actual value. It's a risky proposition on his part because then he can just be dealt to a team like the Hawks of the Cavs. Danny and Brad will likely have a nice long talk with Gordon this offseason and explain the options. If he likes Boston and wants to stick around and if Danny wants to keep him here, then I imagine a Jaylen-like contract will be signed.

I suppose a sign and trade could also be possible if a team wants to overpay him, but can't quite afford a mega-contract. But I do think the Cs will just re-sign him to a longer deal. This was the plan with Big Al before the Sixers inexplicably jumped in.

[Phantom255x]

Does anyone know what our payroll is if Hayward opts-in, and if he opts-out? TPs to anyone with an answer

I don’t have the exact numbers so if your question pertains to luxury tax implications, I can’t help you there. But if your question pertains to cap flexibility then the scenarios are:
1. If Hayward opts in, we have the MLE
2. If only Hayward opts out, we are still over the cap and only have MLE
3. If Hayward opts out and we also don’t keep the rights to any of our pending guys, we’ll be under the cap and have enough space to sign someone just a shade above MLE (not a max contract).

Does anyone know what our payroll is if Hayward opts-in, and if he opts-out? TPs to anyone with an answer

If Kanter and Hayward opt in Spotrac has C's at 141 million. Hayward is at 34 million of that total. Kanter is at 5 million of that total. If both opt out which is likely C's are at 102 million. Cap is 109 right now, tax 139.

With the tax hitting at 139 million it's kind of important to resign Hayward at 25 to 28 million dollar per year range as they also have draft picks that add to cap. Not sure how MLE is applied since 102 is under the cap floor.

Another note is 2021 will be a mess tax wise as Tatum's contract then kicks in. Team will be at 170-180 million range if they kept Hayward and their picks. Average predicted tax line is 150 for that year.

Ah okay, thanks and TP guys!

I think @Jambr380 is right. The goal will be to stay under the LT next season as well and that can likely be accomplished if Hayward opts-out and we re-sign him to a Jaylen-like deal. Otherwise, Hayward leaves and we're left with basically what we have. That's why I think it's best Hayward re-signs here on a 3-4 year deal at say, 27-28M AAV. That's probably what we wanted to do with Horford but then he left for Philly.

We then keep the MLE and maybe use it on Kanter or another big man.

I do think how we do in the playoffs will also determine what we do, since an early exit for example might mean Danny is willing to make a trade for someone like Turner (as others have already mentioned) or other players. So that could play a factor into what we do with Theis and all our bench guys (Semi, Wanamaker, etc.) this summer.

What I do wonder though is if we do that, then after 2021 give Tatum what will likely be a max-contract, where will we be luxury tax wise. I assume it'll get ugly then because if we assume they bring back Hayward on that 3-4 year deal, then we'll have over 120M a year tied to just Kemba, Hayward, Tatum and Brown, without even adding in the bench + other guys like Smart.

[nickagneta]

I think Wanamaker is replaced by Waters, Green is replaced with a one of the first round picks, Memphis Pick plus a rotation player, Poirier and Edwards are used as salary filler in a trade for someone like Turner. I hope Smart is kept but any trades for established player will likely need his salary for match purposes.

I think Kanter opts out and signs elsewhere.  Can he be used in a sign and trade if the team that wants him wants to preserve their MLE?

Hayward is a the wildcard.  He may opt out and sign an longer contract or he may opt in and go into 2021 when more competitive teams have max slots available.

I would have to think if Hayward opts in, then he is a goner. The Cs just can't afford to go into the tax this summer - it makes no sense since they will be so close staying under. He will have shown he is a useful player so teams may be more willing to offer the Cs actual value. It's a risky proposition on his part because then he can just be dealt to a team like the Hawks of the Cavs. Danny and Brad will likely have a nice long talk with Gordon this offseason and explain the options. If he likes Boston and wants to stick around and if Danny wants to keep him here, then I imagine a Jaylen-like contract will be signed.

I suppose a sign and trade could also be possible if a team wants to overpay him, but can't quite afford a mega-contract. But I do think the Cs will just re-sign him to a longer deal. This was the plan with Big Al before the Sixers inexplicably jumped in.

Now after all the trades, there are very little teams next offseason that can just absorb Hayward's $32.4 million in cap space in a trade, none of which I can see wanting Hayward for picks. So any trade of Hayward to get salary cap space is going to need to get back, at minimum, $26 million. Saving that $6.4 million may not be as important as keeping a potential title contender together.

Depending on trades of picks and who returns at what money, the Celtics could still be below the $139 million tax line. Just $3-6 million above it seems most likely. That isn't a large tax bill, but given Boston won't want to be a repeater in 2020-21, it's manageable. And if Hayward, after opting into 2020-21, is then let go the season after, Boston will be below the tax again in 2021-22 which will push back the repeater tax penalty farther down the line.

What I am trying to say is Hayward opting in doesn't necessarily make Boston go into cost saving mode to get under the tax. Remember, if they aren't going to contend, Boston could make cost saving moves at next year's deadline to get under the tax, so early season roster construction doesn't have to be married to staying under the tax number, unless it's to get the non-taxpayer MLE to start the season.

[jambr380]

I think Wanamaker is replaced by Waters, Green is replaced with a one of the first round picks, Memphis Pick plus a rotation player, Poirier and Edwards are used as salary filler in a trade for someone like Turner. I hope Smart is kept but any trades for established player will likely need his salary for match purposes.

I think Kanter opts out and signs elsewhere.  Can he be used in a sign and trade if the team that wants him wants to preserve their MLE?

Hayward is a the wildcard.  He may opt out and sign an longer contract or he may opt in and go into 2021 when more competitive teams have max slots available.

I would have to think if Hayward opts in, then he is a goner. The Cs just can't afford to go into the tax this summer - it makes no sense since they will be so close staying under. He will have shown he is a useful player so teams may be more willing to offer the Cs actual value. It's a risky proposition on his part because then he can just be dealt to a team like the Hawks of the Cavs. Danny and Brad will likely have a nice long talk with Gordon this offseason and explain the options. If he likes Boston and wants to stick around and if Danny wants to keep him here, then I imagine a Jaylen-like contract will be signed.

I suppose a sign and trade could also be possible if a team wants to overpay him, but can't quite afford a mega-contract. But I do think the Cs will just re-sign him to a longer deal. This was the plan with Big Al before the Sixers inexplicably jumped in.

Now after all the trades, there are very little teams next offseason that can just absorb Hayward's $32.4 million in cap space in a trade, none of which I can see wanting Hayward for picks. So any trade of Hayward to get salary cap space is going to need to get back, at minimum, $26 million. Saving that $6.4 million may not be as important as keeping a potential title contender together.

Depending on trades of picks and who returns at what money, the Celtics could still be below the $139 million tax line. Just $3-6 million above it seems most likely. That isn't a large tax bill, but given Boston won't want to be a repeater in 2020-21, it's manageable. And if Hayward, after opting into 2020-21, is then let go the season after, Boston will be below the tax again in 2021-22 which will push back the repeater tax penalty farther down the line.

What I am trying to say is Hayward opting in doesn't necessarily make Boston go into cost saving mode to get under the tax. Remember, if they aren't going to contend, Boston could make cost saving moves at next year's deadline to get under the tax, so early season roster construction doesn't have to be married to staying under the tax number, unless it's to get the non-taxpayer MLE to start the season.

Those are solid points. I guess I thought if a team was say, $15M under the tax that they could trade us a $20M player and still absorb Hayward. You seem to indicate this is not the case (or that teams don't even have that much cap space).

I'd be a bit concerned with Hayward simply picking up his option and us going into next season above the tax (even possibly using the taxpayer MLE), but I guess I never thought of him just leaving for nothing in 2021 - which would restart the clock on the tax as we would fall below again (would be at 2 out of 4 years in 2021-22 with Hayward's departure). I can't imagine re-signing him then would be an option - even at good value - since Tatum's max extension would be kicking in.

Anyway, I do still hope we can re-sign Hayward this off-season, we can keep Kanter, add a vet, and still stay (barely) below the tax with whatever draft picks we make. I think this would be our best option competitively now and in the future.

[Jvalin]

Let's say Hayward opts in, Kanter re-signs with the C's for 120% of his current contract and we use all our first round picks. Not the worst case scenario in terms of trying to avoid the tax, but it's pretty much close to it.

payroll in 2020-2021 (assuming we dump Poirier)

1. Kemba $34,379,100    
2. Hayward $34,187,085    
3. Brown $ 23,883,929
4. Smart $13,446,428
5. Tatum $9,897,120
6. Kanter $5,720,400
7. Theis $5,000,000
8. Langford $3,631,200
9. G. Williams $2,498,760
10. R. Williams $2,029,920
11. Semi $1,752,950
12. Edwards $1,517,981
13. Memphis pick (#17 at the moment) $3,123,960
14. Celtics pick (#26) $2,145,120
15. Bucks pick (#30) $2,040,480
-----------------------------------------
Yabu $1,039,080
Jackson $92,858
-----------------------------------------
SUM: $146,386,371

According to latest rumors, the tax line for 2020-2021 is projected at $138-$139 million.

In this scenario, we'd be around $7.3-$8.3 million above the tax line.

[nickagneta]

Let's say Hayward opts in, Kanter re-signs with the C's for 120% of his current contract and we use all our first round picks. Not the worst case scenario in terms of trying to avoid the tax, but it's pretty much close to it.

payroll in 2020-2021 (assuming we dump Poirier)

1. Kemba $34,379,100    
2. Hayward $34,187,085    
3. Brown $ 23,883,929
4. Smart $13,446,428
5. Tatum $9,897,120
6. Kanter $5,720,400
7. Theis $5,000,000
8. Langford $3,631,200
9. G. Williams $2,498,760
10. R. Williams $2,029,920
11. Semi $1,752,950
12. Edwards $1,517,981
13. Memphis pick (#17 at the moment) $3,123,960
14. Celtics pick (#26) $2,145,120
15. Bucks pick (#30) $2,040,480
-----------------------------------------
Yabu $1,039,080
Jackson $92,858
-----------------------------------------
SUM: $146,386,371

According to latest rumors, the tax line for 2020-2021 is projected at $138-$139 million.

In this scenario, we'd be around $7.3-$8.3 million above the tax line.

Forgot the Celtics stretched Yabusele. Basketball-reference doesn't have that listed.

I think Waters could be signed for a deal starting at $1.2 million that could replace the Boston pick that gets moved with Poirier for a future pick. That would save $900K.

Depending on if Kanter moves on, how much RWilliams shows when he is back healthy, and how the team feels about Tacko's development, Kanter could leave and Tacko could replace him at another $1.2 million saving another $4.6 million.

Clearly, Hayward opting out and getting a four year deal starting at $25 million or so will tremendously help the team out and might keep them below the luxury tax but not sure Hayward will do that.

[NKY fan]

Let's say Hayward opts in, Kanter re-signs with the C's for 120% of his current contract and we use all our first round picks. Not the worst case scenario in terms of trying to avoid the tax, but it's pretty much close to it.

payroll in 2020-2021 (assuming we dump Poirier)

1. Kemba $34,379,100    
2. Hayward $34,187,085    
3. Brown $ 23,883,929
4. Smart $13,446,428
5. Tatum $9,897,120
6. Kanter $5,720,400
7. Theis $5,000,000
8. Langford $3,631,200
9. G. Williams $2,498,760
10. R. Williams $2,029,920
11. Semi $1,752,950
12. Edwards $1,517,981
13. Memphis pick (#17 at the moment) $3,123,960
14. Celtics pick (#26) $2,145,120
15. Bucks pick (#30) $2,040,480
-----------------------------------------
Yabu $1,039,080
Jackson $92,858
-----------------------------------------
SUM: $146,386,371

According to latest rumors, the tax line for 2020-2021 is projected at $138-$139 million.

In this scenario, we'd be around $7.3-$8.3 million above the tax line.

Good summary Javelin!
These numbers suggest that maybe smart will be the one being traded?
Another option is Hayward resigns for $25M for 5 years... that’s pretty close to the max he can get.

[Tr1boy]

 

Let's say Hayward opts in, Kanter re-signs with the C's for 120% of his current contract and we use all our first round picks. Not the worst case scenario in terms of trying to avoid the tax, but it's pretty much close to it.

payroll in 2020-2021 (assuming we dump Poirier)

1. Kemba $34,379,100    
2. Hayward $34,187,085    
3. Brown $ 23,883,929
4. Smart $13,446,428
5. Tatum $9,897,120
6. Kanter $5,720,400
7. Theis $5,000,000
8. Langford $3,631,200
9. G. Williams $2,498,760
10. R. Williams $2,029,920
11. Semi $1,752,950
12. Edwards $1,517,981
13. Memphis pick (#17 at the moment) $3,123,960
14. Celtics pick (#26) $2,145,120
15. Bucks pick (#30) $2,040,480
-----------------------------------------
Yabu $1,039,080
Jackson $92,858
-----------------------------------------
SUM: $146,386,371

According to latest rumors, the tax line for 2020-2021 is projected at $138-$139 million.

In this scenario, we'd be around $7.3-$8.3 million above the tax line.

Kanter is not staying for 5 mill

Unless he has a bad injury going into next season

[Jvalin]

Let's say Hayward opts in, Kanter re-signs with the C's for 120% of his current contract and we use all our first round picks. Not the worst case scenario in terms of trying to avoid the tax, but it's pretty much close to it.

payroll in 2020-2021 (assuming we dump Poirier)

1. Kemba $34,379,100    
2. Hayward $34,187,085    
3. Brown $ 23,883,929
4. Smart $13,446,428
5. Tatum $9,897,120
6. Kanter $5,720,400
7. Theis $5,000,000
8. Langford $3,631,200
9. G. Williams $2,498,760
10. R. Williams $2,029,920
11. Semi $1,752,950
12. Edwards $1,517,981
13. Memphis pick (#17 at the moment) $3,123,960
14. Celtics pick (#26) $2,145,120
15. Bucks pick (#30) $2,040,480
-----------------------------------------
Yabu $1,039,080
Jackson $92,858
-----------------------------------------
SUM: $146,386,371

According to latest rumors, the tax line for 2020-2021 is projected at $138-$139 million.

In this scenario, we'd be around $7.3-$8.3 million above the tax line.

Good summary Javelin!
These numbers suggest that maybe smart will be the one being traded?
Another option is Hayward resigns for $25M for 5 years... that’s pretty close to the max he can get.

Nuh, I can't see Danny trading Smart for cap relief + future asset(s). He's just too valuable to us to dump him for cap relief. It would be as if accepting that we can't compete.

Having said that, no one can possibly know what's going to happen. Hopefully, Hayward opts out and re-signs with the C's for around $25 million per year. Problem solved!

[Phantom255x]

Let's say Hayward opts in, Kanter re-signs with the C's for 120% of his current contract and we use all our first round picks. Not the worst case scenario in terms of trying to avoid the tax, but it's pretty much close to it.

payroll in 2020-2021 (assuming we dump Poirier)

1. Kemba $34,379,100    
2. Hayward $34,187,085    
3. Brown $ 23,883,929
4. Smart $13,446,428
5. Tatum $9,897,120
6. Kanter $5,720,400
7. Theis $5,000,000
8. Langford $3,631,200
9. G. Williams $2,498,760
10. R. Williams $2,029,920
11. Semi $1,752,950
12. Edwards $1,517,981
13. Memphis pick (#17 at the moment) $3,123,960
14. Celtics pick (#26) $2,145,120
15. Bucks pick (#30) $2,040,480
-----------------------------------------
Yabu $1,039,080
Jackson $92,858
-----------------------------------------
SUM: $146,386,371

According to latest rumors, the tax line for 2020-2021 is projected at $138-$139 million.

In this scenario, we'd be around $7.3-$8.3 million above the tax line.

Good summary Javelin!
These numbers suggest that maybe smart will be the one being traded?
Another option is Hayward resigns for $25M for 5 years... that’s pretty close to the max he can get.

Nuh, I can't see Danny trading Smart for cap relief + future asset(s). He's just too valuable to us to dump him for cap relief. It would be as if accepting that we can't compete.

Having said that, no one can possibly know what's going to happen. Hopefully, Hayward opts out and re-signs with the C's for around $25 million per year. Problem solved!

Yeah the hope is that Hayward opts-out and then is willing to accept something like 4/110M (so what Jaylen makes). Now it's still far away, but I have to imagine Danny won't use all those three picks. Maybe he flips 1 or 2 of them for future assets, so I think you can save about 3-5M there depending on what picks he uses/trades. I imagine too that there might be a cap casualty in the form of either Edwards/Semi or someone else in the end of our bench.

But again, still far away and things could depend on how we do in this year's postseason. Remember, last year's postseason run probably confirmed to Ainge that they needed to retool and it wasn't working with Horford/Rozier/Morris/Kyrie, etc. And so Ainge also wasn't willing to budge on paying Horford more and hence, he went to PHI.

[Jvalin]

Let's say Hayward opts in, Kanter re-signs with the C's for 120% of his current contract and we use all our first round picks. Not the worst case scenario in terms of trying to avoid the tax, but it's pretty much close to it.

payroll in 2020-2021 (assuming we dump Poirier)

1. Kemba $34,379,100    
2. Hayward $34,187,085    
3. Brown $ 23,883,929
4. Smart $13,446,428
5. Tatum $9,897,120
6. Kanter $5,720,400
7. Theis $5,000,000
8. Langford $3,631,200
9. G. Williams $2,498,760
10. R. Williams $2,029,920
11. Semi $1,752,950
12. Edwards $1,517,981
13. Memphis pick (#17 at the moment) $3,123,960
14. Celtics pick (#26) $2,145,120
15. Bucks pick (#30) $2,040,480
-----------------------------------------
Yabu $1,039,080
Jackson $92,858
-----------------------------------------
SUM: $146,386,371

According to latest rumors, the tax line for 2020-2021 is projected at $138-$139 million.

In this scenario, we'd be around $7.3-$8.3 million above the tax line.

Good summary Javelin!
These numbers suggest that maybe smart will be the one being traded?
Another option is Hayward resigns for $25M for 5 years... that’s pretty close to the max he can get.

Nuh, I can't see Danny trading Smart for cap relief + future asset(s). He's just too valuable to us to dump him for cap relief. It would be as if accepting that we can't compete.

Having said that, no one can possibly know what's going to happen. Hopefully, Hayward opts out and re-signs with the C's for around $25 million per year. Problem solved!

Yeah the hope is that Hayward opts-out and then is willing to accept something like 4/110M (so what Jaylen makes). Now it's still far away, but I have to imagine Danny won't use all those three picks. Maybe he flips 1 or 2 of them for future assets, so I think you can save about 3-5M there depending on what picks he uses/trades. I imagine too that there might be a cap casualty in the form of either Edwards/Semi or someone else in the end of our bench.

But again, still far away and things could depend on how we do in this year's postseason. Remember, last year's postseason run probably confirmed to Ainge that they needed to retool and it wasn't working with Horford/Rozier/Morris/Kyrie, etc. And so Ainge also wasn't willing to budge on paying Horford more and hence, he went to PHI.

No way we save anything close to $5 million by flipping 2 of our picks. If we do that, we'll end up with 2 roster spots available. The rookie minimum for the 2020-2021 season is $946,543. 

Let's say we flip the Memphis pick + our own 2020 pick.

$946,543 + $946,543 - $3,123,960 (#17) - $2,145,120 (#26) = -$3,375,994.

Best case scenario, we'd be saving $3,375,994.

Likewise, if we flip our own 2020 pick and the Bucks pick we'd be saving $2,292,514.

$946,543 + $946,543 - $2,145,120 (#26) - $2,040,480 (#30) = -$2,292,514

[NKY fan]

Let's say Hayward opts in, Kanter re-signs with the C's for 120% of his current contract and we use all our first round picks. Not the worst case scenario in terms of trying to avoid the tax, but it's pretty much close to it.

payroll in 2020-2021 (assuming we dump Poirier)

1. Kemba $34,379,100    
2. Hayward $34,187,085    
3. Brown $ 23,883,929
4. Smart $13,446,428
5. Tatum $9,897,120
6. Kanter $5,720,400
7. Theis $5,000,000
8. Langford $3,631,200
9. G. Williams $2,498,760
10. R. Williams $2,029,920
11. Semi $1,752,950
12. Edwards $1,517,981
13. Memphis pick (#17 at the moment) $3,123,960
14. Celtics pick (#26) $2,145,120
15. Bucks pick (#30) $2,040,480
-----------------------------------------
Yabu $1,039,080
Jackson $92,858
-----------------------------------------
SUM: $146,386,371

According to latest rumors, the tax line for 2020-2021 is projected at $138-$139 million.

In this scenario, we'd be around $7.3-$8.3 million above the tax line.

Good summary Javelin!
These numbers suggest that maybe smart will be the one being traded?
Another option is Hayward resigns for $25M for 5 years... that’s pretty close to the max he can get.

Nuh, I can't see Danny trading Smart for cap relief + future asset(s). He's just too valuable to us to dump him for cap relief. It would be as if accepting that we can't compete.

Having said that, no one can possibly know what's going to happen. Hopefully, Hayward opts out and re-signs with the C's for around $25 million per year. Problem solved!

Yeah the hope is that Hayward opts-out and then is willing to accept something like 4/110M (so what Jaylen makes). Now it's still far away, but I have to imagine Danny won't use all those three picks. Maybe he flips 1 or 2 of them for future assets, so I think you can save about 3-5M there depending on what picks he uses/trades. I imagine too that there might be a cap casualty in the form of either Edwards/Semi or someone else in the end of our bench.

But again, still far away and things could depend on how we do in this year's postseason. Remember, last year's postseason run probably confirmed to Ainge that they needed to retool and it wasn't working with Horford/Rozier/Morris/Kyrie, etc. And so Ainge also wasn't willing to budge on paying Horford more and hence, he went to PHI.

No way we save anything close to $5 million by flipping 2 of our picks. If we do that, we'll end up with 2 roster spots available. The rookie minimum for the 2020-2021 season is $946,543. 

Let's say we flip the Memphis pick + our own 2020 pick.

$946,543 + $946,543 - $3,123,960 (#17) - $2,145,120 (#26) = -$3,375,994.

Best case scenario, we'd be saving $3,375,994.

Likewise, if we flip our own 2020 pick and the Bucks pick we'd be saving $2,292,514.

$946,543 + $946,543 - $2,145,120 (#26) - $2,040,480 (#30) = -$2,292,514

I think Danny can try to flip all 3 first rounders to OKC and MEM. They might be lacking first rounders this coming draft (OKC will have the late denver pick and their own most likely goes to Philly). Both those teams are in a rebuild so they might be looking for immediate picks. Both of those teams have future firsts they can trade us.
So let’s say we trade the 3 picks and keep the roster to 14 players. We also trade time lord and sign the nets second rounder as well as waters and Tacko.
Won’t this take us right at the luxury line?. At the trade deadline Danny can make further moves to get us below the line ...
How’s that strategy?