Buckner didn't say that Brown wasn't in the same stratosphere as Simmons overall (although that's implied by the rest of his post); he actually said that Brown isn't in the same stratosphere as Simmons defensively - which is perplexing to say the least.
I can buy the argument that Simmons is [currently] a better basketball player than Brown, but defense is Brown's calling card and that is never going away.
Oh I missed it. I actually agree with him - I think the bulk of Simmons' impact comes from defence, while Brown is more balanced on both sides of the court. But I absolutely disagree with the opinion that Simmons is more talented than Brown: while Simmons is slightly better right now (top 30ish player compared to top 40 player), he's close to his ceiling while Brown can improve much more with incremental improvements to his game.
Yeah I disagree. Philadelphia doesn't even use Simmons correctly in their system. He won't shoot from the perimeter. He's barely scratching the surface of how good he could be if those two things weren't the case. In a more open read and react free-flowing system like ours vs the offense based on dumping the ball into a big man and just standing around Simmons' talents could be supported instead of his weaknnesses exposed by the system.
His situational value in certain setups is irrelevant - I've been talking about their "goodness" (basically the lift they provide to an average strength team by attempting to take a number of setups into account with varying degrees of fit, which is much better than just comparing situational value: players produce different value in different situations). Simmons is not that much better than Brown in that regard and doesn't really have much more room to grow, while Brown has the potential to jump up at least a couple of tiers.
I'm not talking situational value, I'm talking player development. And that means putting players in systems that accentuate their skills like Brad has done for Brown and like Brett Brown has not done for Simmons. Sure Jaylen could jump a couple of tiers but Simmons is on a higher tier than him anyway with completely undeveloped and unutilized skills. Simmons could be a Top 10 player in the game and I just can't say that about Jaylen, as much as I love him.
Simmons would be a top ten player if he could shoot 33% from three and 70% from the free throw line, two things which do not seem like they could ever happen.
Well if you wanna get technical, he's shooting 33% from 3 now so you're flat out wrong. As for the FT % guys really need to work with him on his shot, and I really think he has a confidence issue. But he's 23 years old and this is just his 3rd season. There's nowhere near enough evidence to make your assessment about his future credible. But I think he's gonna have to leave Philly to get there.
On...6 attempts, lots of players have shot decent percentages on minuscule sample sizes. And there's nowhere near enough evidence to make your assessment about his future credible either, especially when your premise is based upon him developing something he has never shown in his 3 year career so far. This isn't saying something like prime Kevin Garnett would be shooting 3s at a decent clip if he played today because he shot 32.5% on 277 3 point attempts over a 4 year stretch during his prime years on a team that eschewed frontcourt players from taking or even practicing shooting threes, this is talking about a player who has taken 24 three point attempts in 236 games and has only made 2 of them on a team that desperately needs spacing around its MVP calibre centre. The burden of proof is on your side if you want to convince us that he'll magically grow into an able shooter and half court creator from just a simple change of scenery, not ours.
You want me to say that there's no proof either way? Done. That's exactly my argument. 6 attempts this year is barely a worse sample size to make an assessment with than 24 attempts that you're trying to take me to task over. For all either of us know he buries them in practice. In fact, reports have suggested that very thing. I mean c'mon, you literally just wrote it. 24 attempts in 236 games. That's not a bad shooter. That's a guy who is afraid to shoot. And how many of those 24 were heaves at the end of a shot clock or quarter? You don't want me to speak in absolutes? So be it. But don't sit here and tell me that you KNOW he'd never be able to shoot 33% on high volume because there is no sample size of high volume that indicates that. That's my only point.
Effectively, it's the same thing. Being unwilling to shoot is every bit as bad for an offense, it lets the defense know they can ignore you when you don't have the ball in your hands, and forces your team to play at a major disadvantage.
If Ben Simmons was at all a capable shooter and still was unwilling to shoot he'd deserve to be sat on the bench. But maybe the reason he's so unwilling to shoot threes is because he simply can't.
This article came out less than 2 weeks ago:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29074004/ben-simmons-hears-talk-process-not-public-experiment
One notion the young Sixers star doesn't mind sharing: He craves being challenged, even admonished. He knows he needs it, even though he wishes he didn't.
"My weakness," Simmons says, "is I need to have someone make me accountable. The goal is to be accountable to myself.
It is a perpetual talking point that doggedly follows Simmons. In December, when he connected on a 3 against Cleveland in a blowout win, Brown announced he expected Simmons to take "a minimum of one 3-pointer every game, and you can pass it along to his agent, family and friends."
Simmons attempted just two in the subsequent three months.
Boyle offered his own solution on how to coax Simmons into action: Threaten him. It's a technique, Boyle insists, that Simmons has responded to before, especially considering his thirst for accountability.
"If I were in charge of the Sixers, I'd tell him, 'If you don't take a pull-up jumper and a perimeter shot in each half -- I don't care about your percentages -- you're sitting,'" Boyle says.
"I told Ben, 'If you aren't willing to shoot, then do I just bench you? Because I can do that,'" Brown says. "We could have gone that route or continue to coach him as it relates to spacing. We worked on the ability to use it as a choice to shoot the 3, catch and go, get in the paint, or find someone else.
"This was all discussed. I opted to take this path. I think only down the road will we be able to truly assess if it was the right one. In the meantime, he's a two-time All-Star, a kid that's gone from a college 4 to an NBA point guard. His story is a pretty darn good one."
I'm convinced this is a COACHING problem. The reason why Brown is going to get fired is because there is no accountability and he thinks everything is just fine. I remain unconvinced that if Simmons was being coached by Brad Stevens he would be held accountable. You say he should be benched? His high school coach agrees with you. And so do I for that matter. Point I'm making is that I think there may exist at least a mediocre 3-point shooter in there but nobody is trying to find it.
You say maybe he's just a bad shooter? I'll accept "maybe". But we have no idea and that's a lot different than saying he's DEFINITELY a bad shooter or that he will NEVER be a capable shooter. Because there is simply no data to suggest "never".
And there's even less data to suggest that he can be a capable shooter. The most likely outcome is that he'll never be a capable shooter (yes it's not maybe, it's very likely), saying that there's a minuscule chance of him making a GOAT level leap in shooting doesn't really make him more valuable or better than Brown, which is what started this whole thing.
You're missing the point then. Simmons is already more valuable than Brown right now before taking even a modest leap. He's a better ballhandler, defender, passer, rebounder, finisher at the rim. He's more versatile at both ends of the floor and it's not really close at all. He's the kind of player GM's would build a team around whereas Brown is decidedly not. And it's still too early to pass those judgements when it's pretty clear that his coaching has stunted his development. If/when Brown gets fired, we'll see.
I didn't miss it, I simply disagree with it. Simmons isn't that much better than Brown right now and he's closer to his likely ceiling than Brown. Both players are guys who GMs would view as a potential tertiary piece on a championship team, but Brown has the potential to be a clear cut #2 guy while Simmons does not unless he makes that GOAT level shooting leap you've been suggesting.
Brown is not going to be the #2 guy on this team or ANY team for a while. He's arguably the #4 guy right now and that's not changing any time soon if Brad has anything to say about it.
Not sure why a 20+ scorer with an elite 59% TS% (while actually being able to hit the side of a barn from outside the paint) at 23 years of age has such a limited ceiling, especially when you've been raving about Simmons for a couple of pages.
Brown has had two years where he's undergone massive, borderline MIP-worthy level improvements in his game, whereas your binkie Simmons hasn't really improved on offence at all. His efficiency is slightly better, but overall his offensive game has regressed. Career lows in OBPM, OWS and all his FG% between 3 feet and the 3 point line. Simmons has also regressed as a rebounder ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Topic: What does our roster look like next year? (Read 27965 times)