Author Topic: Fultz still can't shoot  (Read 24730 times)

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Re: Fultz still can't shoot
« Reply #90 on: January 25, 2018, 04:30:31 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Great show.   Start binging it a couple of weeks ago.  Almost done with season three. 

What SL is suggesting is dark and most likely unethical but it's an awesome idea.
Show is absolutely worthless. Lasted 1 episode in and decided I don't need this. But I digress...

About the issue at hand, surgery has a well-known placebo effect. Dan Ariely at MIT has a lot of interesting stuff in his book on irrationality. Here are some details (at 538 vis Ariely's Twitter):

https://twitter.com/danariely/status/888191183100420096
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Re: Fultz still can't shoot
« Reply #91 on: January 25, 2018, 04:51:08 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Great show.   Start binging it a couple of weeks ago.  Almost done with season three. 

What SL is suggesting is dark and most likely unethical but it's an awesome idea.
Show is absolutely worthless. Lasted 1 episode in and decided I don't need this. But I digress...

About the issue at hand, surgery has a well-known placebo effect. Dan Ariely at MIT has a lot of interesting stuff in his book on irrationality. Here are some details (at 538 vis Ariely's Twitter):

https://twitter.com/danariely/status/888191183100420096

To each their own, I guess.

Out of curiosity, which episode did you watch?  You know they're stand-alones, right?


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Re: Fultz still can't shoot
« Reply #92 on: January 25, 2018, 04:59:16 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Great show.   Start binging it a couple of weeks ago.  Almost done with season three. 

What SL is suggesting is dark and most likely unethical but it's an awesome idea.
Show is absolutely worthless. Lasted 1 episode in and decided I don't need this. But I digress...

About the issue at hand, surgery has a well-known placebo effect. Dan Ariely at MIT has a lot of interesting stuff in his book on irrationality. Here are some details (at 538 vis Ariely's Twitter):

https://twitter.com/danariely/status/888191183100420096

To each their own, I guess.

Out of curiosity, which episode did you watch?  You know they're stand-alones, right?
I think I started with S1, E1 (the one with the kidnapped princess and the pig). I know the episodes are standalones, but I can't binge on a show and wonder whether each subsequent episode will reach back to the gratuitous graphic grossness of E1 or not (the baseline has been established). I have too little time and too much on my TV/reading list either way.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Fultz still can't shoot
« Reply #93 on: January 25, 2018, 05:24:26 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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https://twitter.com/jonjohnsonwip/status/956284647713001473/video/1

Good Lord, somehow his shot is looking even worse the longer this thing drags on.

This has to be the yips at this point, right?

How the hell do you develop that kind of hitch in your shot, especially in a free throw?

Yeah, it has to be the yips.  That’s a career-ender, potentially.

I’d lie to the kid, tell him his shoulder is damaged and he needs surgery, and somehow find a doctor who will perform something fake for him.  He needs to believe that it’s not in his head, and the “rehab” hasn’t worked to do that.
That is a good approach.
However, they have already done that, saying he has a muscle imbalance.
The kid knows whats happening to him, he is smart.

I feel bad for him.
And really good about our end of the bargain.

That’s why you do a fake surgery.  Find a doctor, tell him to examine him.  If there’s something structural, fix it.  If there’s not, tell him there is and pretend to fix it.  Heck, have him tell the team the same thing he tells Fultz, so they don’t know either. Even if all you’re doing is removing a benign mole, he needs to think that there was actually something holding him back.  And the coaching staff does too, frankly.

I’m sure it’s probably unethical, but he needs to go into surgery thinking there’s something wrong that he’s actually having a surgical procedure to correct, and wake up being told he had the surgery with a small scar to prove it.  You can’t think your way out of the yips.

Sounds like something from black mirror

Great show.   Start binging it a couple of weeks ago.  Almost done with season three. 

What SL is suggesting is dark and most likely unethical but it's an awesome idea.

There’s no “most likely” about it; it’s counter to most of Western healthcare's moral duties and obligations, specifically informed consent.

Are the “yips” actually diagnosable empirically as a medical condition, or are they purely psychological? Doing just a little bit of research, it seems that it can go beyond mere sports psychology and involve an actual neurological dysfunction.

Re: Fultz still can't shoot
« Reply #94 on: January 25, 2018, 07:02:17 PM »

Offline Big333223

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https://twitter.com/jonjohnsonwip/status/956284647713001473/video/1

Good Lord, somehow his shot is looking even worse the longer this thing drags on.

This has to be the yips at this point, right?

How the hell do you develop that kind of hitch in your shot, especially in a free throw?

Yeah, it has to be the yips.  That’s a career-ender, potentially.

I’d lie to the kid, tell him his shoulder is damaged and he needs surgery, and somehow find a doctor who will perform something fake for him.  He needs to believe that it’s not in his head, and the “rehab” hasn’t worked to do that.
That is a good approach.
However, they have already done that, saying he has a muscle imbalance.
The kid knows whats happening to him, he is smart.

I feel bad for him.
And really good about our end of the bargain.

That’s why you do a fake surgery.  Find a doctor, tell him to examine him.  If there’s something structural, fix it.  If there’s not, tell him there is and pretend to fix it.  Heck, have him tell the team the same thing he tells Fultz, so they don’t know either. Even if all you’re doing is removing a benign mole, he needs to think that there was actually something holding him back.  And the coaching staff does too, frankly.

I’m sure it’s probably unethical, but he needs to go into surgery thinking there’s something wrong that he’s actually having a surgical procedure to correct, and wake up being told he had the surgery with a small scar to prove it.  You can’t think your way out of the yips.

Sounds like something from black mirror

Great show.   Start binging it a couple of weeks ago.  Almost done with season three. 

What SL is suggesting is dark and most likely unethical but it's an awesome idea.

There’s no “most likely” about it; it’s counter to most of Western healthcare's moral duties and obligations, specifically informed consent.

Are the “yips” actually diagnosable empirically as a medical condition, or are they purely psychological? Doing just a little bit of research, it seems that it can go beyond mere sports psychology and involve an actual neurological dysfunction.

Or are they a diagnosable psychological disorder?
1957, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1974, 1976, 1981, 1984, 1986, 2008

Re: Fultz still can't shoot
« Reply #95 on: January 25, 2018, 07:47:36 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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Great show.   Start binging it a couple of weeks ago.  Almost done with season three. 

What SL is suggesting is dark and most likely unethical but it's an awesome idea.
Show is absolutely worthless. Lasted 1 episode in and decided I don't need this. But I digress...

About the issue at hand, surgery has a well-known placebo effect. Dan Ariely at MIT has a lot of interesting stuff in his book on irrationality. Here are some details (at 538 vis Ariely's Twitter):

https://twitter.com/danariely/status/888191183100420096

To each their own, I guess.

Out of curiosity, which episode did you watch?  You know they're stand-alones, right?
I think I started with S1, E1 (the one with the kidnapped princess and the pig). I know the episodes are standalones, but I can't binge on a show and wonder whether each subsequent episode will reach back to the gratuitous graphic grossness of E1 or not (the baseline has been established). I have too little time and too much on my TV/reading list either way.

Episode 1 was a turn-off for a lot of people (literally), and it was one of the weaker episodes overall.  But the other episodes are a lot different, nothing even remotely approaches that level of grossness. There are some really creative ideas going on here, "White Christmas" in particular was unforgettable.

And, for the politically-minded, "The Waldo Moment" was a staggeringly accurate prophecy of the 2016 Presidential election.

Really a terrific show, watching season 4 right now.

Re: Fultz still can't shoot
« Reply #96 on: January 25, 2018, 07:57:43 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Great show.   Start binging it a couple of weeks ago.  Almost done with season three. 

What SL is suggesting is dark and most likely unethical but it's an awesome idea.
Show is absolutely worthless. Lasted 1 episode in and decided I don't need this. But I digress...

About the issue at hand, surgery has a well-known placebo effect. Dan Ariely at MIT has a lot of interesting stuff in his book on irrationality. Here are some details (at 538 vis Ariely's Twitter):

https://twitter.com/danariely/status/888191183100420096

To each their own, I guess.

Out of curiosity, which episode did you watch?  You know they're stand-alones, right?
I think I started with S1, E1 (the one with the kidnapped princess and the pig). I know the episodes are standalones, but I can't binge on a show and wonder whether each subsequent episode will reach back to the gratuitous graphic grossness of E1 or not (the baseline has been established). I have too little time and too much on my TV/reading list either way.

Episode 1 was a turn-off for a lot of people (literally), and it was one of the weaker episodes overall.  But the other episodes are a lot different, nothing even remotely approaches that level of grossness. There are some really creative ideas going on here, "White Christmas" in particular was unforgettable.

And, for the politically-minded, "The Waldo Moment" was a staggeringly accurate prophecy of the 2016 Presidential election.

Really a terrific show, watching season 4 right now.

very well said kraidster agree with all of this.

Re: Fultz still can't shoot
« Reply #97 on: January 25, 2018, 08:26:11 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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There’s no “most likely” about it; it’s counter to most of Western healthcare's moral duties and obligations, specifically informed consent.

Are the “yips” actually diagnosable empirically as a medical condition, or are they purely psychological? Doing just a little bit of research, it seems that it can go beyond mere sports psychology and involve an actual neurological dysfunction.
"Sham surgeries" have been performed (with patient consent) in the US... and have actually been demonstrated to work.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/surgery-is-one-hell-of-a-placebo/
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Fultz still can't shoot
« Reply #98 on: January 25, 2018, 08:49:13 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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There’s no “most likely” about it; it’s counter to most of Western healthcare's moral duties and obligations, specifically informed consent.

Are the “yips” actually diagnosable empirically as a medical condition, or are they purely psychological? Doing just a little bit of research, it seems that it can go beyond mere sports psychology and involve an actual neurological dysfunction.
"Sham surgeries" have been performed (with patient consent) in the US... and have actually been demonstrated to work.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/surgery-is-one-hell-of-a-placebo/

Of course. It's the same rationale as the placebo effect, but from an ethical perspective consent is the crux of the issue.

It would be interesting to see Fultz consent to something like this and whether or not it would even work for something like the yips.

Re: Fultz still can't shoot
« Reply #99 on: January 25, 2018, 09:15:08 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Episode 1 was a turn-off for a lot of people (literally), and it was one of the weaker episodes overall.  But the other episodes are a lot different, nothing even remotely approaches that level of grossness. There are some really creative ideas going on here, "White Christmas" in particular was unforgettable.

And, for the politically-minded, "The Waldo Moment" was a staggeringly accurate prophecy of the 2016 Presidential election.

Really a terrific show, watching season 4 right now.
I suspect as much, but I have no trust in a show that's already demonstrated willingness to go there.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Fultz still can't shoot
« Reply #100 on: January 25, 2018, 09:44:00 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Sports psychologists would help, at least to some extent.. and the Sixers model of bringing along their youth slowly, though silly at times, seems to be working for the most part.
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Re: Fultz still can't shoot
« Reply #101 on: January 25, 2018, 09:55:34 PM »

Offline saltlover

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There’s no “most likely” about it; it’s counter to most of Western healthcare's moral duties and obligations, specifically informed consent.

Are the “yips” actually diagnosable empirically as a medical condition, or are they purely psychological? Doing just a little bit of research, it seems that it can go beyond mere sports psychology and involve an actual neurological dysfunction.
"Sham surgeries" have been performed (with patient consent) in the US... and have actually been demonstrated to work.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/surgery-is-one-hell-of-a-placebo/

Of course. It's the same rationale as the placebo effect, but from an ethical perspective consent is the crux of the issue.

It would be interesting to see Fultz consent to something like this and whether or not it would even work for something like the yips.

I’d just go further with Fultz.  Fultz goes to a sports psychologist, agrees to therapy.  Part of the psychologist’s therapy is to tell Fultz “There’s nothing mentally wrong with you.  Try seeing this doctor instead.  Some of my patients have had success with him”  Said doctor performs a sham surgery on Fultz, as part of the therapy that Fultz has agreed to with the psychologist.  Fultz does not know the surgerywas a sham, but again, has agreed to therapy with the psychologist.

Fultz is left believing it was in fact physical, rehabs as normal, and gets rid of the yips.

Re: Fultz still can't shoot
« Reply #102 on: January 25, 2018, 10:50:11 PM »

Offline azzenfrost

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His is the weirdest story for a top pick that I've ever come across.
I moved the cheese.

Re: Fultz still can't shoot
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2018, 01:31:09 PM »

Online Moranis

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https://sports.yahoo.com/see-markelle-fultz-can-shoot-video-175135054.html

Looks like his form may be back after all

Edit: and yes I know this is funny and not serious
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 01:36:37 PM by Moranis »
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Re: Fultz still can't shoot
« Reply #104 on: January 26, 2018, 01:48:26 PM »

Offline Erik

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His is the weirdest story for a top pick that I've ever come across.

I posted about his mental problems a while back (it was obvious to me very early) and was crucified, but I guess now that it's OK to talk about, I'll give this tidbit:

He was actually not a relatively known prospect. This wasn't a LeBron where everyone knew he would be an NBA player when he was a teenager. He was cut from varsity early and started becoming a big deal his senior year in high school. He then went on to play at a relatively small basketball college program with a weak record. He's never really played on a big stage and has little accomplishment, other than being the #1 pick of course. He may have some type of inferiority complex that he doesn't belong, which is very destructive to performance. Once you trick your mind that you are not good enough, you're done. It appears that he needs serious mental help. I just hope that the Sixers have the balls to admit it or his career will be very short.