Also am I the only one here who thinks that KG is a top 10 player of all time? 
Yes I think you are. Look at any of the lists posted above and tell me who you would knock out of the top-10 to make room for KG.
I actually posted my top 15 list in this thread earlier on lol.
12-15 range to me. Don't see him cracking the prestigious top 11, but I also don't see him dropping below the likes of West and Doctor J due to his longevity.
This is probably my top 15 list (in order, but I'm open to arguments ranking players in the same range differently):
Tier 1
LeBron James
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Michael Jordan
Bill Russell
Tier 2
Shaquille O'Neal
Hakeem Olajuwon
Kevin Garnett
Tim Duncan
Wilt Chamberlain
Tier 3
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Tier 4
Oscar Robertson
David Robinson
Kobe Bryant
Karl Malone
Btw awards mean absolutely nothing to me so please don't pull out stuff like Moses' 3 MVPs to pump up a player if you're replying to my list lol (no offence, I just think that awards are absolute crap at evaluating a player's "goodness").
your disdain for 80's basketball is a bit much. Garnett is not better than Bird and Magic. Not even close. And I already knew you hate Moses Malone for some strange reason. He was the best player in the world for a 5 year period, playing in a time with 3 other top 10 players all time.
Disdain for 80s basketball? Is that why Jordan and Kareem are in my top 4? FWIW Bird and Magic would've joined the top 4 if they didn't have injury/HIV problems and played until the mid 90s at a high level. I've been pretty clear with how their longevity hamstrung them in my list, not because they didn't peak high enough.
And maybe you love Moses Malone for some strange reason, saying that he was the best player in the world in a 5 year period doesn't sound convincing at all when Kareem and Bird played during that stretch.
Jordan made his business in the 90's and Kareem in the 70's. Those are the decades of their true prime years.
Jordan played 930 games in Chicago (added 142 in Washington). Bird played in 897 games (and was 35 when he retired) and Magic played in 906 (874 without the last year in 96). Unless you are really relying on Jordan's 2 Washington seasons it seems strange to view the longevity that much differently. Also, Russell only had 963. It just seems like a strange place to draw the line.
You can disagree all you want, but Moses Malone was in fact the best player in the world over a 5 year period. I know you hate awards, but the writers were not wrong in giving Moses the 3 MVP's during that stretch. He was that good and that dominant over that stretch. Every bit as good as Kareem, Bird, and Magic during that stretch (a couple of seasons pre-dated Larry and Magic).
Agree completely on Moses. During that '79-'85 run, Moses was dominant and he was clearly the best big during that time and either the best or 2nd best player in the world during those years and deserving of those MVP awards. He carried that Houston team to the Finals and was THE difference between Philly and everyone else in '83 because no one could stop him down low, much like no one could for the 3-4 years before that.
Are you sure about '79 and '80? Kareem was still in the tail end of his prime and was a great two way anchor, the team results also like him in those final prime years as the lead dog before Magic hit his stride (strong team numbers on offence and defence, excellent point differential, deep playoff runs with one championship). He was also the best player in the '80 finals. I understand Moses being around the same level in '81 and '82 and then separating himself in '83 due to Kareem's age, but I do find it quite baffling that he was considered to be better than Kareem in '79 and '80.
Positive.
Moses was young in 79 and Kareem was just starting his post 30 decline from true greatness.
Houston had just had a terrible year and wasn't doing great in 79 but then Moses went on an absolute year. I remember reading the Boston Globe(which had the best sports section of any newspaper in the country) and when you got to the national NBA news it was like you were constantly reading about yet another 30/20 night for Moses. He had an awful lot of those nights that year, especially later in the year, like January, February and March. Moses was all the rage then and absolutely DOMINANT!
Kareem was just starting to decline, but he didn't drop off a cliff from his peak year in '77 from what I can see in both footage (albeit limited) and statistics, it was still a very strong MVP season.
And yes I read about Moses' exploits in the '79 season, it was a great offensive season for a big man (he jived with good offensive teammates in Tomjanovic, Barry and Murphy due to his offensive rebounding and finishing) that led to the best offence in '79. But his defence was an issue - that Rockets team played cringeworthy defence (22nd in DRTG) and although Moses wasn't really at fault for the outcome (his teammates were mostly below average defenders), he didn't do much to help either. Traditional defensive behemoths usually help buoy a defence a couple of tiers even if the team defence isn't all that great, and Kareem did that by anchoring the 10th best defence in the league with a supporting cast that wasn't awe-inspiring defensively. Kareem also led the Lakers to the 5th best offence and 4th best SRS (while the Rockets sputtered to an average 12th best SRS), a testament to his massive two way impact even in '79.
Anyways it's interesting hearing about how revered Moses was in '79 from you, but eh I still find the "Moses was better than Kareem in '79" claims hard to believe. It wasn't like Moses won a ton either if you want a more traditional argument, he got bounced in the first round while Kareem lost to the eventual NBA champions in the second round while tearing up the Seattle frontcourt.
Moses was 2nd Team All Defense that season, and it was earned. He wasn't a shlub on that end of the floor. And it is hard to get much better than 24.5 p, 20.5 r, and 4 b which is what Moses did against Atlanta. They didn't lose to the Hawks because Moses underperformed, they lost because everyone else was crap.
At the end of the day when you lead the league in rebounding by nearly 5 a game (17.6, Kareem and Rich Kelley were 2nd at 12.
, play significantly more minutes than anyone else, finish 4th in ppg, etc., and then win the head to head match-up against your biggest competitor for the award, it isn't hard to figure out why Moses was correctly awarded the MVP.
That selection was pretty doubtful too imo, you had good old Robert Parish anchoring the 5th best defence for Golden State and he wasn't named to any of the teams. Moses was no schlub on defence, but I fail to see evidence of him causing a defence to jump up a tier or two by himself, which all elite big man defenders are able to do so. And it's true that Moses' teammates played like crap against Atlanta, but to me it exposed a weakness of Moses' offence: his inability to pass made him more of a finisher than a creator, he was unable to create quality looks over and over again for his teammates like the best offensive players ever.
At the end of the day, rebounding is not a top line stat and isn't close to being as valuable as scoring and passing in the classic box score. Moses leading by 5 RPG doesn't make up for his deficiencies in passing and defence compared to Kareem (imo their scoring was a wash that season, Moses was slightly better at volume but Kareem edges Moses a bit in efficiency). Also I'm unsure how did you come to the conclusion that Moses won the matchup against Kareem in '79 unless you're just taking the box scores at face value.
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