Celtics (37-22) at Bulls (15-44) Game #60 2/23/19

[jpotter33]

You guys that want Stevens yelling and screaming are hilarious. Do you really think the man doesn't get angry and that the team doesn't know when he is angry?

My old Sicilian grandmother was 4'11" and maybe weighed 100 pounds. She was ALWAYS smiling and happy. But if she got mad at you, all it took was that look, the one where the smile disappears, the eyebrows furrow a bit and her eyes widen as she stared at you.

There's ways when you know certain people are angry. I think the players know when Stevens is steaming and I am sure the players hear it off court behind doors

I'm always reluctant to make assumptions about whether players get angry or not at each other, or coaches yell at their players or not, because we don't know what goes on behind closed doors. We get mad watching the game and we wonder why the coaches, players, etc aren't mad. It's possible that they could be throwing stuff around inside the locker room and we would never know. A lot of times players, coaches, teams etc put their game face on and not show emotion I think.

Regardless of how Brad shows his displeasure, I do hope he is showing it, and including himself in it as well though. I don't care if he does it behind closed doors, in a way I prefer he does it behind closed doors. But something needs to jolt these guys out of the stupor they tend to fall into when they play mediocre teams.

Brad post game says he is definitely part of the problem as well. Good to hear.

I mean, he’s said that before in at least three other games this season, yet still nothing has changed and he still continues to make the same mistakes again and again, all while not getting through to this team.

[SHAQATTACK]

At Toronto then Portland, Yikes even though this is a rock bottom low we could go lower!

prepare for the worst hope for the best

CBS better put on his big boy coaching pants
 

[SCeltic34]

You guys that want Stevens yelling and screaming are hilarious. Do you really think the man doesn't get angry and that the team doesn't know when he is angry?

My old Sicilian grandmother was 4'11" and maybe weighed 100 pounds. She was ALWAYS smiling and happy. But if she got mad at you, all it took was that look, the one where the smile disappears, the eyebrows furrow a bit and her eyes widen as she stared at you.

There's ways when you know certain people are angry. I think the players know when Stevens is steaming and I am sure the players hear it off court behind doors

I'm always reluctant to make assumptions about whether players get angry or not at each other, or coaches yell at their players or not, because we don't know what goes on behind closed doors. We get mad watching the game and we wonder why the coaches, players, etc aren't mad. It's possible that they could be throwing stuff around inside the locker room and we would never know. A lot of times players, coaches, teams etc put their game face on and not show emotion I think.

Regardless of how Brad shows his displeasure, I do hope he is showing it, and including himself in it as well though. I don't care if he does it behind closed doors, in a way I prefer he does it behind closed doors. But something needs to jolt these guys out of the stupor they tend to fall into when they play mediocre teams.

Brad post game says he is definitely part of the problem as well. Good to hear.

He's said that earlier this season, and not that long ago.   The question is what is he going to do about it?  I haven't noticed significant adjustments.  But at least he continues to recognize it because he has indeed done an underwhelming job this season.

[gouki88]

You guys that want Stevens yelling and screaming are hilarious. Do you really think the man doesn't get angry and that the team doesn't know when he is angry?

My old Sicilian grandmother was 4'11" and maybe weighed 100 pounds. She was ALWAYS smiling and happy. But if she got mad at you, all it took was that look, the one where the smile disappears, the eyebrows furrow a bit and her eyes widen as she stared at you.

There's ways when you know certain people are angry. I think the players know when Stevens is steaming and I am sure the players hear it off court behind doors

I'm always reluctant to make assumptions about whether players get angry or not at each other, or coaches yell at their players or not, because we don't know what goes on behind closed doors. We get mad watching the game and we wonder why the coaches, players, etc aren't mad. It's possible that they could be throwing stuff around inside the locker room and we would never know. A lot of times players, coaches, teams etc put their game face on and not show emotion I think.

Regardless of how Brad shows his displeasure, I do hope he is showing it, and including himself in it as well though. I don't care if he does it behind closed doors, in a way I prefer he does it behind closed doors. But something needs to jolt these guys out of the stupor they tend to fall into when they play mediocre teams.

Brad post game says he is definitely part of the problem as well. Good to hear.

He's said that earlier this season, and not that long ago.   The question is what is he going to do about it?  I haven't noticed significant adjustments.  But at least he continues to recognize it because he has indeed done an underwhelming job this season.

Maybe it's time to revert to something resembling our original starting lineup? At least get Brown back in there - he has easily been outplaying Smart as of late

[jpotter33]

https://twitter.com/ChrisForsberg_/status/1099515030121443328

Terry Rozier’s net rating over 15:47: minus-52.2.

Only Kyrie in the positive for this game, and everyone else deep in the negative.

To put that into perspective, the next worse was a -17.0 net rating by Brown in 23 minutes. Good freaking grief. How does Brad justify continuing to play him at this point? From every perspective possible - the eye test, analytics, etc. - he is killing us out there - why continue to play him at this point when it seems like we could benefit in more than one way from sitting him for the time being?

[jpotter33]

You guys that want Stevens yelling and screaming are hilarious. Do you really think the man doesn't get angry and that the team doesn't know when he is angry?

My old Sicilian grandmother was 4'11" and maybe weighed 100 pounds. She was ALWAYS smiling and happy. But if she got mad at you, all it took was that look, the one where the smile disappears, the eyebrows furrow a bit and her eyes widen as she stared at you.

There's ways when you know certain people are angry. I think the players know when Stevens is steaming and I am sure the players hear it off court behind doors

I'm always reluctant to make assumptions about whether players get angry or not at each other, or coaches yell at their players or not, because we don't know what goes on behind closed doors. We get mad watching the game and we wonder why the coaches, players, etc aren't mad. It's possible that they could be throwing stuff around inside the locker room and we would never know. A lot of times players, coaches, teams etc put their game face on and not show emotion I think.

Regardless of how Brad shows his displeasure, I do hope he is showing it, and including himself in it as well though. I don't care if he does it behind closed doors, in a way I prefer he does it behind closed doors. But something needs to jolt these guys out of the stupor they tend to fall into when they play mediocre teams.

Brad post game says he is definitely part of the problem as well. Good to hear.

He's said that earlier this season, and not that long ago.   The question is what is he going to do about it?  I haven't noticed significant adjustments.  But at least he continues to recognize it because he has indeed done an underwhelming job this season.

Maybe it's time to revert to something resembling our original starting lineup? At least get Brown back in there - he has easily been outplaying Smart as of late

Getting Brown in there and Smart back to the bench would certainly make it easier to limit Rozier's minutes. However, I don't think that's the smart play, as the value of Smart is having that secondary perimeter playmaker out there that we don't have otherwise.

I think Morris is the guy that needs to head back to the bench, though I think we're probably too small if we replace Morris with Brown. Not sure what the best option is.

[gouki88]

https://twitter.com/ChrisForsberg_/status/1099515030121443328

Terry Rozier’s net rating over 15:47: minus-52.2.

Only Kyrie in the positive for this game, and everyone else deep in the negative.

To put that into perspective, the next worse was a -17.0 net rating by Brown in 23 minutes. Good freaking grief. How does Brad justify continuing to play him at this point? From every perspective possible - the eye test, analytics, etc. - he is killing us out there - why continue to play him at this point when it seems like we could benefit in more than one way from sitting him for the time being?

That is quite simply astonishing. Like, literally almost unbelievably bad, except for the fact that I've watched Terry play so I believe it all too much.

[nickagneta]

https://twitter.com/ChrisForsberg_/status/1099515030121443328

Terry Rozier’s net rating over 15:47: minus-52.2.

Only Kyrie in the positive for this game, and everyone else deep in the negative.

To put that into perspective, the next worse was a -17.0 net rating by Brown in 23 minutes. Good freaking grief. How does Brad justify continuing to play him at this point? From every perspective possible - the eye test, analytics, etc. - he is killing us out there - why continue to play him at this point when it seems like we could benefit in more than one way from sitting him for the time being?

I know you hate Tatum but if you look closer at the Tweet you will discover the actual real reason the Celtics lost.

Defensive ratings of starters:
Tatum  135.4 in 31 minutes
Horford 133.9 in 30 minutes
Smart 133.3 in 30 minutes
Morris 129.2 in 28 minutes
Irving 122.4 in 41 minutes

There it is. There is the game. The starter's defense was deplorable. They were the unit that played the most minutes together.

It was actually the

Kyrie
Brown
Theis
Hayward
Morris/Rozier grouping that got a 25 point lead down to 11 from the mid 3rd to early 4th

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

https://twitter.com/ChrisForsberg_/status/1099515030121443328

Terry Rozier’s net rating over 15:47: minus-52.2.

Only Kyrie in the positive for this game, and everyone else deep in the negative.

To put that into perspective, the next worse was a -17.0 net rating by Brown in 23 minutes. Good freaking grief. How does Brad justify continuing to play him at this point? From every perspective possible - the eye test, analytics, etc. - he is killing us out there - why continue to play him at this point when it seems like we could benefit in more than one way from sitting him for the time being?

I know you hate Rozier but if you look closer at the Tweet you will discover the actual real reason the Celtics lost.

Defensive ratings of starters:
Tatum  135.4 in 31 minutes
Horford 133.9 in 30 minutes
Smart 133.3 in 30 minutes
Morris 129.2 in 28 minutes
Irving 122.4 in 41 minutes

There it is. There is the game. The starter's defense was deplorable. They were the unit that played the most minutes together.

It was actually the

Kyrie
Brown
Theis
Hayward
Morris/Rozier grouping that got a 25 point lead down to 11 from the mid 3rd to early 4th

In other words, very little (if any) of this loss can be blamed on Kyrie. But that hasn't stopped his detractors from basically blaming this loss on him.

[SparzWizard]

Trade Rozier. Question the validity of Brad Stevens.

[SparzWizard]

Whatever happened to this team that dismantled the Bulls by 50 points back in December.

[celtics4ever33]

Brown needs to start.

Enough of this experiment. Smart is good, he should play, and he should on some days get those important minutes, but Brown needs to be the guy.

Kyrie and him have to try to co-exists. If Kyrie can't play with Brown , it's Kyrie's fault. Hes the leader, or supposed to be and he is the guy they play off of. Enough of this pansy stuff.

[keevsnick]

Brown needs to start.

Enough of this experiment. Smart is good, he should play, and he should on some days get those important minutes, but Brown needs to be the guy.

Kyrie and him have to try to co-exists. If Kyrie can't play with Brown , it's Kyrie's fault. Hes the leader, or supposed to be and he is the guy they play off of. Enough of this pansy stuff.

Kyrie-Brown-Tatum-Horford-Baynes. That should be our starting unit. That essentially the same unit we went with for large stretches last year but swapping Kyrie in for Rozier. If a team goes small you can swap Smart in for Baynes. One of those two starting alignemtns gives you the best offense-defesne alignemnt, at least two guys in Horford and one of  (Baynes, Smart) who dont need a lot of shots Hayward stays on secodn unit as primary ball handler making Morris and Rozier spot up shooters.

[keevsnick]

You guys that want Stevens yelling and screaming are hilarious. Do you really think the man doesn't get angry and that the team doesn't know when he is angry?

My old Sicilian grandmother was 4'11" and maybe weighed 100 pounds. She was ALWAYS smiling and happy. But if she got mad at you, all it took was that look, the one where the smile disappears, the eyebrows furrow a bit and her eyes widen as she stared at you.

There's ways when you know certain people are angry. I think the players know when Stevens is steaming and I am sure the players hear it off court behind doors

I'm always reluctant to make assumptions about whether players get angry or not at each other, or coaches yell at their players or not, because we don't know what goes on behind closed doors. We get mad watching the game and we wonder why the coaches, players, etc aren't mad. It's possible that they could be throwing stuff around inside the locker room and we would never know. A lot of times players, coaches, teams etc put their game face on and not show emotion I think.

Regardless of how Brad shows his displeasure, I do hope he is showing it, and including himself in it as well though. I don't care if he does it behind closed doors, in a way I prefer he does it behind closed doors. But something needs to jolt these guys out of the stupor they tend to fall into when they play mediocre teams.

Brad post game says he is definitely part of the problem as well. Good to hear.

He's said that earlier this season, and not that long ago.   The question is what is he going to do about it?  I haven't noticed significant adjustments.  But at least he continues to recognize it because he has indeed done an underwhelming job this season.

Maybe it's time to revert to something resembling our original starting lineup? At least get Brown back in there - he has easily been outplaying Smart as of late

Getting Brown in there and Smart back to the bench would certainly make it easier to limit Rozier's minutes. However, I don't think that's the smart play, as the value of Smart is having that secondary perimeter playmaker out there that we don't have otherwise.

I think Morris is the guy that needs to head back to the bench, though I think we're probably too small if we replace Morris with Brown. Not sure what the best option is.

Yep the size issue is the only reason I'd hesitate to replace Morris with Brown as well. But to play devils advocate, its not like Morris actually plays big. He has been bad this year defensively, he like 84th of 94 in defensive RPM. He doesn't block shots. He does offer a little more rebounding than Brown, but not drastically more. He doesn't impact the game in really any other way besides shooting and even then he's been back to his career 34-35ish from three since the start of January. Jaylen has been right around that same mark, maybe slightly better in that span.  Even in the passing department I think Brown is better, especially as a kick out/dump off guy off drives. So go Jaylen. If you want more size with some playmaking maybe put Hayward back in as well and go with our original death line up (although I  think I'd rather have Hayward off the bench, cuz a Rozier, Smart, Morris bench may literally fight over who gets to shoot awful iso jumper/heat check threes)

[ozgod]

Brown needs to start.

Enough of this experiment. Smart is good, he should play, and he should on some days get those important minutes, but Brown needs to be the guy.

Kyrie and him have to try to co-exists. If Kyrie can't play with Brown , it's Kyrie's fault. Hes the leader, or supposed to be and he is the guy they play off of. Enough of this pansy stuff.

Kyrie-Brown-Tatum-Horford-Baynes. That should be our starting unit. That essentially the same unit we went with for large stretches last year but swapping Kyrie in for Rozier. If a team goes small you can swap Smart in for Baynes. One of those two starting alignemtns gives you the best offense-defesne alignemnt, at least two guys in Horford and one of  (Baynes, Smart) who dont need a lot of shots Hayward stays on secodn unit as primary ball handler making Morris and Rozier spot up shooters.

Brad's clearly not a fan of that unit this year...it's only played together in 7 games this season and an average of 3.6min per game.

Code: [Select]

LINEUPS TEAM GP MIN PTS FGM FGA FG% 3PM 3PA 3P% FTM FTA FT% OREB DREB REB AST TOV STL BLK BLKA PF PFD +/-
Horford, BOS 7 3.6 7.9 3 6.3 47.7 0.7 1.7 41.7 1.1 1.3 88.9 0.4 2.9 3.3 2.3 1.4 0.4 1.4 0.6 1.4 1.3 0
Irving,
Baynes,
Brown,
Tatum


https://stats.nba.com/lineups/traditional/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612738&sort=GROUP_NAME&dir=-1