For the lovers of sign and trade transactions

[jambr380]

I honestly thought this was going to be a thread by nick telling us how rare and unlikely S&Ts really are. He has previously gone into quite a bit of depth on the subject; instead we get not that.

The 2nd trade has been discussed before, however. If Kyrie says he is absolutely leaving, it might be in DA's best interest to get a big one-year salary in return, as well as a pick. This could obviously be done with a TPE, but we would likely have to give up a pick in this case (no reason for BKN to do us any favors) and the TPE couldn't be used in combination with other players in a trade. Also, the TPE would only be $20.1M while Crabbe's contract is $18.5M. Still, this seems very unlikely.

It should also be noted that this assumes we would not be bringing back Morris or Rozier as either or both of those guys could create big enough salaries to make up for having to bring in a big expiring.

[TheSundanceKid]

God, these are all terrible terrible deals besides maybe the Indiana one.

Why do we want more middle-late first round picks? Why would Kyrie agree to that?

Why do we want arguably the worst contract in basketball?? He's merely a good point guard now, but is incredibly injury-prone.

Yuck.

I think this is the point of the thread.... to show that sign and trades aren't some magical solution to our woes. In reality they are unlikely and rarely appealing!

[NKY fan]

God, these are all terrible terrible deals besides maybe the Indiana one.

Why do we want more middle-late first round picks? Why would Kyrie agree to that?

Why do we want arguably the worst contract in basketball?? He's merely a good point guard now, but is incredibly injury-prone.

Yuck.

I think this is the point of the thread.... to show that sign and trades aren't some magical solution to our woes. In reality they are unlikely and rarely appealing!

Yes S&T are not used anymore because teams don’t see the benefit of them or are unwilling to work with the team that signs away their free agent.
Remember Utah wanted to do a sign and trade of Hayward for crowder when Ainge stole Hayward from them but Danny refuses probably because the jazz weren’t offering any compensation for crowder. He probably didnt have the audacity to ask for a draft pick lol

[Sketch5]

Your credibility went out the window the moment you assumed we would trade Horford and Morris for Chris Paul...

What if they don’t want to resign? Should we lose them for nothing?
We can over pay them to stay with the Celtics but then they will be untradeable.
While Paul’s contract is horrendous and would make this transaction unlikely... which other team would be willing to send something for Morris and Al ?

I'd rather see them walk then tie up Cap to pay Paul 35 mil for two years, 3 if it's player option. Maybe 10 years ago, but not now.

Rather do a double S&T with BKN with Irving and Russel, would fit with the youth movement.

[NKY fan]

Your credibility went out the window the moment you assumed we would trade Horford and Morris for Chris Paul...

What if they don’t want to resign? Should we lose them for nothing?
We can over pay them to stay with the Celtics but then they will be untradeable.
While Paul’s contract is horrendous and would make this transaction unlikely... which other team would be willing to send something for Morris and Al ?

I'd rather see them walk then tie up Cap to pay Paul 35 mil for two years, 3 if it's player option. Maybe 10 years ago, but not now.

Rather do a double S&T with BKN with Irving and Russel, would fit with the youth movement.

We can do the S&T for russel but he must want to come here meaning we are overpaying or we are paying market value and sending draft compensation back to the Nets... they would ask for a first at least and you know how highly Ainge values first rounders.. I don’t see that deal happening because Brooklyn wouldn’t want to help their rivals.

[Silky]

God, these are all terrible terrible deals besides maybe the Indiana one.

Why do we want more middle-late first round picks? Why would Kyrie agree to that?

Why do we want arguably the worst contract in basketball?? He's merely a good point guard now, but is incredibly injury-prone.

Yuck.

I think this is the point of the thread.... to show that sign and trades aren't some magical solution to our woes. In reality they are unlikely and rarely appealing!

Yes S&T are not used anymore because teams don’t see the benefit of them or are unwilling to work with the team that signs away their free agent.
Remember Utah wanted to do a sign and trade of Hayward for crowder when Ainge stole Hayward from them but Danny refuses probably because the jazz weren’t offering any compensation for crowder. He probably didnt have the audacity to ask for a draft pick lol

In that instance yes. Danny did not want to tradeva player for nothing.

But if, at the time, danny had all but 6 million in space to be able to sign another max free agent he would have.

Context and situations matter.

A sign and trade with brooklyn for crabbe for irving allows brooklyn to offer a max contract to durant for example.

So instead of losing kyrie for nothing danny could nab an expuring deal for trade matching amd perhaps a protected pick or something.

A sign and trade for thw clippers for a player would allow them to max another player as well.

[Celtics4ever]

So you’re saying it’s ok to attack people’s opinions using unverified statements?
I also referred to the so called sites with info meaning I am aware where I can do the research not that I Know some best kept secrets.
Sorry if I sound too defensive but clearly this post was in the transactions and rumors section...

 if you read the title of the post you’d immediately know this post is not for the fans that look at basketball from its holistic side only

But  is purely theoretical ( financially theoretically sound).
End of rant.

I did not say that but you have to realize when you post something it does not mean that people are going to fawn and adore you.   I am sorry you did not get the gratification you thought you were going to get.   But posts often lead to discourse, and you're over reacting in a dramatic way. people are allowed to disagree with you and that is life.  Just because someone does not agree with you does not mean they are attacking you.    I am not of the "safe space" generation and really I don't see the attacks you're mentioning.   He mentioned posts like this, not you or your name.

There is something called a consensus and most did not care for your trades.   My advice is refute people if you disagree with them with facts or opinion but don't resort to the "he attacked me" when you have put your ideas for all to see and comment on in a forum.  That is what a forum is all about exchanging ideas, interests and discourse about topics we share a common interest in.

[NKY fan]

So you’re saying it’s ok to attack people’s opinions using unverified statements?
I also referred to the so called sites with info meaning I am aware where I can do the research not that I Know some best kept secrets.
Sorry if I sound too defensive but clearly this post was in the transactions and rumors section...

 if you read the title of the post you’d immediately know this post is not for the fans that look at basketball from its holistic side only

But  is purely theoretical ( financially theoretically sound).
End of rant.

I did not say that but you have to realize when you post something it does not mean that people are going to fawn and adore you.   I am sorry you did not get the gratification you thought you were going to get.   But posts often lead to discourse, and you're over reacting in a dramatic way. people are allowed to disagree with you and that is life.  Just because someone does not agree with you does not mean they are attacking you.    I am not of the "safe space" generation really don't see the attacks you're mentioning.

There is something called a consensus and most did not care for your trades.

This is the internet in general you can post whatever you want. I don’t care about safe space as I’m too old for that.
I agree that the trades were not well accepted and didn’t expected them to be .... however people defended the rationalization behind the first two trades.

using false statements to belittle someone’s opinion is not healthy for the discussion here on this site don’t you think?

[nickagneta]

Enough!

[Monkhouse]

Listen, I was very rude and I apologize for whatever I wrote.

That being said, in order to even clear enough space (this is in response to byennie's original comment regarding if we had $20 mil in cap space,) we would need to renounce all free agents, clear all cap holds, presumably get Baynes to agree to be traded.

S&T are just particularly tricky, because you have to not only get both teams to agree, but the player signing the contract would have to agree with the notion that the respective team would be losing liquidated assets.

I just cannot see Ainge even touching CP3's contract.

[NKY fan]

Listen, I was very rude and I apologize for whatever I wrote.

That being said, in order to even clear enough space (this is in response to byennie's original comment regarding if we had $20 mil in cap space,) we would need to renounce all free agents, clear all cap holds, presumably get Baynes to agree to be traded.

S&T are just particularly tricky, because you have to not only get both teams to agree, but the player signing the contract would have to agree with the notion that the respective team would be losing liquidated assets.

I just cannot see Ainge even touching CP3's contract.

Sorry I over reacted . Peace ✌️
I guess the points made on this thread were that S&T are very rare nowadays for various reasons but there might be some fringe benefits for the teams involved in the right context ... this is all.
Celtics are out of the playoffs and at this point rumors and signings are the main topic plus draft picks.

Thanks god that at least the raptors are still in it and play old school playoff basketball... the rest of the playoffs series have been underwhelming to me.

[nickagneta]

Since the summer of 2015 there have been only 4 sign and trade deals in the entire league. Kyle O'Quinn in 2015. Matthew Dellavedova and Troy Daniels in 2016. Danilo Gallinari in July 2017. Since the new CBA was ratified in late 2016, Gallo is the only player to be signed and traded under the current rules...that was two years ago.

[Monkhouse]

Listen, I was very rude and I apologize for whatever I wrote.

That being said, in order to even clear enough space (this is in response to byennie's original comment regarding if we had $20 mil in cap space,) we would need to renounce all free agents, clear all cap holds, presumably get Baynes to agree to be traded.

S&T are just particularly tricky, because you have to not only get both teams to agree, but the player signing the contract would have to agree with the notion that the respective team would be losing liquidated assets.

I just cannot see Ainge even touching CP3's contract.

Sorry I over reacted . Peace ✌️
I guess the points made on this thread were that S&T are very rare nowadays for various reasons but there might be some fringe benefits for the teams involved in the right context ... this is all.
Celtics are out of the playoffs and at this point rumors and signings are the main topic plus draft picks.

Thanks god that at least the raptors are still in it and play old school playoff basketball... the rest of the playoffs series have been underwhelming to me.

Yeah, I assume Ainge would explore all options. If Irving is indeed on his way out, I'm sure there will be talks regarding his preferred destination and if he would be willing to accommodate the Celtics. I just have a belief that he isn't going to leave on a few reasons regarding his dismissal of his trade kicker, wanting to lead a team, and being the focal point of our offense. If he goes to NYK, he's going to be 1B behind KD. If he goes to the Clippers, sure he could be 1A, but are they really that much better than us? S&T generally only proves profitable for teams who cannot bring players in via cap space.

Rooting for the Raptors even though it hurts me to do so.

[gouki88]

Since the summer of 2015 there have been only 4 sign and trade deals in the entire league. Kyle O'Quinn in 2015. Matthew Dellavedova and Troy Daniels in 2016. Danilo Gallinari in July 2017. Since the new CBA was ratified in late 2016, Gallo is the only player to be signed and traded under the current rules...that was two years ago.

So one team doing 3 in one offseason isn't likely?

[NKY fan]

Since the summer of 2015 there have been only 4 sign and trade deals in the entire league. Kyle O'Quinn in 2015. Matthew Dellavedova and Troy Daniels in 2016. Danilo Gallinari in July 2017. Since the new CBA was ratified in late 2016, Gallo is the only player to be signed and traded under the current rules...that was two years ago.

So one team doing 3 in one offseason isn't likely?

Let’s leave it to Ainge to defy the odds and entertain us this offseason...