20 Games In - What Are Your Thoughts?

[Kuberski33]

This is the deepest Celtics team I've seen in a long time. Only ones that compare for me are the 08 championship team and maybe back to the Bird era when Max was still with the team and they could bring him or McHale off the bench along with Gerald Hendrerson.

Only thing that gets in the way of a title run is injuries, which is a risk with any NBA team. Tatum has become a 5 tool player - and bona fide MVP candidate. He's now attacking the rim regularly, something he couldn't do before, though maybe that's a function of having better offensive weapons around him. His defense is also a huge differentiator. Can't think of many who score at his level who also play excellent D.

Jaylen as well has upped his game in terms of scoring at the rim. I also notice that they look to run regularly now - and somewhere, Tommy Heinsohn is smiling about that.  He would love this team.

[wdleehi]

This is the deepest Celtics team I've seen in a long time. Only ones that compare for me are the 08 championship team and maybe back to the Bird era when Max was still with the team and they could bring him or McHale off the bench along with Gerald Hendrerson.

Only thing that gets in the way of a title run is injuries, which is a risk with any NBA team. Tatum has become a 5 tool player - and bona fide MVP candidate. He's now attacking the rim regularly, something he couldn't do before, though maybe that's a function of having better offensive weapons around him. His defense is also a huge differentiator. Can't think of many who score at his level who also play excellent D.

Jaylen as well has upped his game in terms of scoring at the rim. I also notice that they look to run regularly now - and somewhere, Tommy Heinsohn is smiling about that.  He would love this team.

Deepest where the pieces fit and are happy with how they fit together.   

[Moranis]

This team isn't even the deepest team of the last 5 years.  I mean that 18-19 team was very deep.  They didn't get along and weren't as good, but were a much deeper team.

PG - Irving, Rozier, Wanamaker
SG - Brown, Smart
SF - Tatum, Hayward, Semi
PF - Horford, Morris
C - Baynes, Theis, Rob

[LaBran Jaymes]

The best team in the league.

[Roy H.]

This team isn't even the deepest team of the last 5 years.  I mean that 18-19 team was very deep.  They didn't get along and weren't as good, but were a much deeper team.

PG - Irving, Rozier, Wanamaker
SG - Brown, Smart
SF - Tatum, Hayward, Semi
PF - Horford, Morris
C - Baynes, Theis, Rob

That's why wdleehi's caveat is important:

Deepest where the pieces fit and are happy with how they fit together.   

It's the deepest team we've had in awhile where there are no obvious chemistry concerns.

[dannyboy35]

We're on pace for around 65 wins, Tatum looks like an MVP, and the team seemingly has fantastic chemistry.  It's hard not to be psyched.  And that's without Timelord.

The defense has been a let down, but hopefully the team buckles down after Timelord is re-integrated.  The defensive talent is definitely there.  We could also use help rebounding, but again: Timelord. 

The only negative I've seen so far this season is the JB -> Kyrie stuff.  That should be easy enough to move on from.

Funny how the Ime controversy and issue seems like a distant memory now, you didn’t even think to mention it because it seems to of had no negative effect on this team

   
  Wow. Good point. I totally forgot about it , myself.

[Neurotic Guy]

This team isn't even the deepest team of the last 5 years.  I mean that 18-19 team was very deep.  They didn't get along and weren't as good, but were a much deeper team.

PG - Irving, Rozier, Wanamaker
SG - Brown, Smart
SF - Tatum, Hayward, Semi
PF - Horford, Morris
C - Baynes, Theis, Rob

What about quality depth?   Every team has 2nd and 3rd string players.  You've got the 2018-19 versions of 13 guys.  Compare with the 22-23 versions of the C's top 13.  Yes, person 12 and 13 on the 18-19 (Semi; Wanamaker) C's have more value than 12 and 13 on 22-23 (Vonleh; Griffin).  But top 11 I give almost every slot to the current C's (I take Luke over oft-injured rookie Rob; GH and TR were 11 ppg role players, Smart was a poor-shooting SG, and the Jays of 18-19 were not the Jays of 22-23). C's have better quality throughout the top 11 with the exception of Morris depending on where you slot him.

Tatum
Brown
Brogdon
Smart
Rob
White
Al
Grant
Sam
PP
Luke
Vonleh
Griffin

[dannyboy35]

Championship season.

Bucks are still a big threat

  Yeah, it’s not my money or my franchise but if I had “the keys” I’d operate as if this is an all or nothing year. All in for 1 title and then worry about the sacrifice we’ve made to the future later.
   I’d try to keep everybody even down to Pritchard ( if it’s possible) and overpay with picks attatxhed to Gallo. Be the team that outbids for Alec Burks. He’d be my guy . Then MAYBE there’s still a chance at Kelly O? Maybe not. I wouldn’t chase Poetl but that’s because I don’t think we could be the winning bid and may have to mess with a happy locker room and not sure if we could retain him. There’s also the free throw shooting that scares me a bit.

[nyceltsfan]

So far, so good.  The only concern I have (which I admit is a contrarian view), is that the offense may sputter a bit when Timelord returns.  While we all expect him to rectify many of our defensive issues, he provides less spacing than all of our current lineups and I worry that the offense will take a large step backwards.

I hope and expect that the benefits will outweigh the deficits from his return, but I wonder what others think about this point.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

The only negative I've seen so far this season is the JB -> Kyrie stuff.  That should be easy enough to move on from.

The only negative? You complained a decent amount about the backup bigs and used hyperbole (indefensible I believe was the word) to make your point. I think you’re doing the same with Jaylen Brown. I believe Nick and other posters made the point that you are going too far with this stuff.

I agree that anti semitism is wrong. I don’t agree that Jaylen is a bigot. Like Nick said, supporting a friend (Kyrie) is different than perpetrating the act. Otherwise, I would be responsible for all of the dumb stuff my friends have done/said over the years.

Roy, you were cryptically reading Jaylen’s tweets (a weird thing to do) this summer during the whole KD trade nonsense. Is there a chance you wanted him gone before Kyrie’s comments?

[Roy H.]

The only negative I've seen so far this season is the JB -> Kyrie stuff.  That should be easy enough to move on from.

The only negative? You complained a decent amount about the backup bigs and used hyperbole (indefensible I believe was the word) to make your point. I think you’re doing the same with Jaylen Brown. I believe Nick and other posters made the point that you are going too far with this stuff.

I agree that anti semitism is wrong. I don’t agree that Jaylen is a bigot. Like Nick said, supporting a friend (Kyrie) is different than perpetrating the act. Otherwise, I would be responsible for all of the dumb stuff my friends have done/said over the years.

Roy, you were cryptically reading Jaylen’s tweets (a weird thing to do) this summer during the whole KD trade nonsense. Is there a chance you wanted him gone before Kyrie’s comments?

What a weird post.

First, I've admitted that Kornet has turned into a useful rotation player.  I still think it's indefensible that we came into the season with so many players on the roster that can't contribute.  Turns out, Kornet can fill a role, so bravo to Brad on that one.  Not so much for Vonleh and Jackson.  I'll consider Blake an assistant coach at this point.

As for Jaylen, I don't think there's anything cryptic about it.  He's been going out of his way to support anti-Semites, and he admitted that the off-the-court stuff was a distraction.  I have no idea if JB is a bigot.  I know that he's bigot-adjacent, which isn't a good place for your second best player to be.  And, the things that I pointed out in Jaylen's tweets (again, not cryptic) was his repeated criticism of Boston fans, and posts showing him hanging out with Kanye and Kyrie.  Rather than back down from that stance, I'm going to pat myself on the back for predicting ahead of time that Brown would get himself into trouble hanging with those two weirdos.  JB's friend and former business partner is now hanging out with neo-nazis and Holocaust deniers.

As I said, he should put this behind him.  He's a great player, but his career can take a rapid Kyrie-like turn if he keeps going down these fake-intellectual anti-Jew, black supremacist rabbit holes.  I'd prefer to keep this topic in the other thread, though, rather than derailing this one.

Lastly...  if your friends are saying racist / anti-Semitic things, you probably should take a look in the mirror about that friendship.  I don't care all that much that you and Nick hang out with a bunch of idiots that say terrible things.  I don't.  People who condone hatred have some issues that they need to work out, and that extends beyond an infatuation with being Jaylen's (or Kyrie's, or Kanye's) white knight.

[Sophomore]

This team isn't even the deepest team of the last 5 years.  I mean that 18-19 team was very deep.  They didn't get along and weren't as good, but were a much deeper team.

PG - Irving, Rozier, Wanamaker
SG - Brown, Smart
SF - Tatum, Hayward, Semi
PF - Horford, Morris
C - Baynes, Theis, Rob

Was that team deeper? 2018-19 Tatum and Brown are not close to the players 2022-23 Tatum and Brown are. I mean, it’s a big difference. I guess you can limit “depth” to the quality of the bench players but I would not see it that way. But even if you consider all players, I still give the edge to the current team. The players on the roster have skill sets that let the team play different ways, or play the same style with more guys out.

PG: Smart, Brogdon. [Smart and Kyrie are a push - KI obviously a better scorer, but Smart is perfect in this role and an infinitely better defender; Brogdon is *much* better than Rozier as backup PG,
And White or PP are also available as needed.]

SG Brown, White. [Today’s Brown >> 2018/9 Brown. White as SG > 2018/19 Smart, who was way out of role.]

SF Tatum, Hauser. [today’s Tatum > 2018/9 Tatum. A healthy Hayward obviously better than Hauser but he wasn’t healthy most of the year, and Hauser really fits. Also, if we are talking *depth*, this team can go with one of White or Grant in this role - who are likely a match for wounded Hayward or better in the role of ball-mover, decision-maker]

PF/C Horford, Grant, Rob, Big Bird. [To me this is the question mark. Horford has taken a step back but he’s still effective,
And again, great *in role*. The question mark for me is Rob. If healthy he’s just a *lot* better than Baynes, and as we’ve seen there are situational fixes when he’s out; Kornet or Vonleh, sometimes Tatum playing free safety on D.]

If this team is healthy and has all its guys, I count 2 all-NBA players, and six more guys who are legit starters on a playoff team. Can’t say that about the 2018/9 team. Then add PP and Hauser as really skilled role players. Way, way better than their counterparts Wanamaker and Semi.

[Moranis]

This team isn't even the deepest team of the last 5 years.  I mean that 18-19 team was very deep.  They didn't get along and weren't as good, but were a much deeper team.

PG - Irving, Rozier, Wanamaker
SG - Brown, Smart
SF - Tatum, Hayward, Semi
PF - Horford, Morris
C - Baynes, Theis, Rob

What about quality depth?   Every team has 2nd and 3rd string players.  You've got the 2018-19 versions of 13 guys.  Compare with the 22-23 versions of the C's top 13.  Yes, person 12 and 13 on the 18-19 (Semi; Wanamaker) C's have more value than 12 and 13 on 22-23 (Vonleh; Griffin).  But top 11 I give almost every slot to the current C's (I take Luke over oft-injured rookie Rob; GH and TR were 11 ppg role players, Smart was a poor-shooting SG, and the Jays of 18-19 were not the Jays of 22-23). C's have better quality throughout the top 11 with the exception of Morris depending on where you slot him.

Tatum
Brown
Brogdon
Smart
Rob
White
Al
Grant
Sam
PP
Luke
Vonleh
Griffin

This Year vs. 2019

Tatum > Irving
Brown > Tatum
Horford < Horford
Brogdon < Brown
Smart = Smart
Rob < Hayward (until we see what Rob actually looks like, Hayward was better that year - that was basically his only healthy year in Boston)
White < Rozier
Grant < Morris
Kornet < Baynes
Vonleh < Theis

The 2019 team was much more balanced and distributed the scoring a lot more.  It was significantly deeper as you went down the roster.  I don't think that is really arguable at this point, though Tatum and Brown are better than Irving and Tatum were on the 19 team.  In the playoffs that year, they had 5 guys at 13.7 or more ppg.  They spread it around more than the current team does where Tatum and Brown are scoring machines (the pace is also faster today, though Boston has an obscene start to scoring this year).  Brogdon is 3rd on the team at 13.6 ppg and no one else is above 11.2. 

[DefenseWinsChamps]

This team isn't even the deepest team of the last 5 years.  I mean that 18-19 team was very deep.  They didn't get along and weren't as good, but were a much deeper team.

PG - Irving, Rozier, Wanamaker
SG - Brown, Smart
SF - Tatum, Hayward, Semi
PF - Horford, Morris
C - Baynes, Theis, Rob

On paper. Games aren't played on paper.

This team actually uses its depth because it can play together. Depth doesn't matter if the team can't do that.

[Roy H.]

White < Rozier

Even ignoring the chemistry issues and the fit, I don't think Rozier was better in 2019 than White has been this year.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=roziete01&p1yrfrom=2019&player_id2=whitede01&p2yrfrom=2023