Author Topic: The Green Kornet  (Read 4532 times)

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Re: The Green Kornet
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2022, 02:14:52 PM »

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Kornet, Hauser, and Pritchard have all been what I've expected this season. They have all added to winning!

Oh come on.  You expected Hauser to shoot 48% from 3?  You expected Kornet to be a regular rotation player?  Pritchard, sure, he isn't doing anything that he hasn't shown in the past that he can do.  But I don't believe anyone expected Hauser and Kornet to play this well.  I don't remember anyone calling this out in say Sept.

If you have posts calling this out, kudos to you.  That would have been a really hot take to have come true.

I’ve been calling out Hauser since before we re-signed him.  Just because you were skeptical, doesn’t mean others were.  I was more skeptical on Kornet, but also believed that the minimum free agent market for bigs was limited, so was willing to give him the chance.

I think many of us thought the Hauser signing was a good one, because it was apparent he had an elite NBA skill and could be locked up on a bargain deal if he worked out, with little risk if he didn't.

I don't think many of us thought he would lead the league in +/- and be hovering around 50% 3PT%, while scoring at the 4th highest rate of our rotation players.

No, but I did say he’d be perfectly capable of stepping into the rotation when Gallo went down, which is what has happened, while others wanted to trade for Rudy Gay.

Re: The Green Kornet
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2022, 09:58:31 AM »

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No, but I did say he’d be perfectly capable of stepping into the rotation when Gallo went down, which is what has happened, while others wanted to trade for Rudy Gay.

I still want to trade for Rudy Gay. The team needs a minutes-eater for the dead of winter. Tatum and Brown are playing 36-38 minutes a night which isn't ideal over a full season, guys are going to get banged up over time, and Gay is big enough to cameo as a big in a small-ball lineup a la Grant.

He fits into the Juancho TPE and being able to aggregate Gay and Gallo this summer lets Brad do the same "matching salary + this seasons' first" trade that's netted the C's Horford, White, and Brogdon in three consecutive league years while leaving the future firsts balance sheet essentially clean.

I just don't think that Ainge is going to be eager to salary-dump Gay anymore, because somehow Utah's in sole possession of first place in the West the week of Thanksgiving.

Re: The Green Kornet
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2022, 10:16:06 AM »

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No, but I did say he’d be perfectly capable of stepping into the rotation when Gallo went down, which is what has happened, while others wanted to trade for Rudy Gay.

I still want to trade for Rudy Gay. The team needs a minutes-eater for the dead of winter. Tatum and Brown are playing 36-38 minutes a night which isn't ideal over a full season, guys are going to get banged up over time, and Gay is big enough to cameo as a big in a small-ball lineup a la Grant.

He fits into the Juancho TPE and being able to aggregate Gay and Gallo this summer lets Brad do the same "matching salary + this seasons' first" trade that's netted the C's Horford, White, and Brogdon in three consecutive league years while leaving the future firsts balance sheet essentially clean.

I just don't think that Ainge is going to be eager to salary-dump Gay anymore, because somehow Utah's in sole possession of first place in the West the week of Thanksgiving.

Rudy Gay has been awful this year.  Horrendous shooting, as many turnovers as assists.  The only reason Ainge would keep Gay is if he still wanted to try to tank.

Re: The Green Kornet
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2022, 10:46:19 AM »

Offline bogg

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No, but I did say he’d be perfectly capable of stepping into the rotation when Gallo went down, which is what has happened, while others wanted to trade for Rudy Gay.

I still want to trade for Rudy Gay. The team needs a minutes-eater for the dead of winter. Tatum and Brown are playing 36-38 minutes a night which isn't ideal over a full season, guys are going to get banged up over time, and Gay is big enough to cameo as a big in a small-ball lineup a la Grant.

He fits into the Juancho TPE and being able to aggregate Gay and Gallo this summer lets Brad do the same "matching salary + this seasons' first" trade that's netted the C's Horford, White, and Brogdon in three consecutive league years while leaving the future firsts balance sheet essentially clean.

I just don't think that Ainge is going to be eager to salary-dump Gay anymore, because somehow Utah's in sole possession of first place in the West the week of Thanksgiving.

Rudy Gay has been awful this year.  Horrendous shooting, as many turnovers as assists.  The only reason Ainge would keep Gay is if he still wanted to try to tank.

Eh, disagree. Utah's below the luxury tax line by a chunk, so there isn't much motivation to do a "Gay plus seconds into cap space/TPE" deal on Ainge's part as there might have been if they were in full tear-down/clear-the-books mode. Rudy can just be a veteran on a winning team's bench. I was hoping that Boston could pick up some minor draft capital and add a swingman version of Blake in the process. Would still do it for future aggregation purposes and a more reliable Justin Jackson alternative.

Re: The Green Kornet
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2022, 11:11:27 AM »

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No, but I did say he’d be perfectly capable of stepping into the rotation when Gallo went down, which is what has happened, while others wanted to trade for Rudy Gay.

I still want to trade for Rudy Gay. The team needs a minutes-eater for the dead of winter. Tatum and Brown are playing 36-38 minutes a night which isn't ideal over a full season, guys are going to get banged up over time, and Gay is big enough to cameo as a big in a small-ball lineup a la Grant.

He fits into the Juancho TPE and being able to aggregate Gay and Gallo this summer lets Brad do the same "matching salary + this seasons' first" trade that's netted the C's Horford, White, and Brogdon in three consecutive league years while leaving the future firsts balance sheet essentially clean.

I just don't think that Ainge is going to be eager to salary-dump Gay anymore, because somehow Utah's in sole possession of first place in the West the week of Thanksgiving.

Rudy Gay has been awful this year.  Horrendous shooting, as many turnovers as assists.  The only reason Ainge would keep Gay is if he still wanted to try to tank.

Eh, disagree. Utah's below the luxury tax line by a chunk, so there isn't much motivation to do a "Gay plus seconds into cap space/TPE" deal on Ainge's part as there might have been if they were in full tear-down/clear-the-books mode. Rudy can just be a veteran on a winning team's bench. I was hoping that Boston could pick up some minor draft capital and add a swingman version of Blake in the process. Would still do it for future aggregation purposes and a more reliable Justin Jackson alternative.

I wouldn't specifically target Gay, but if the options came down to "keep Jackson and let the TPE expire" or "trade for Gay", I'd be fine with that.  As you mention, having salaries to aggregate in the off-season would be helpful.  Gallo + Gay + Kornet could bring back $19.2 million in salary.  Add Pritchard, and it's up to $24.76 million.



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Re: The Green Kornet
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2022, 11:28:49 AM »

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No, but I did say he’d be perfectly capable of stepping into the rotation when Gallo went down, which is what has happened, while others wanted to trade for Rudy Gay.

I still want to trade for Rudy Gay. The team needs a minutes-eater for the dead of winter. Tatum and Brown are playing 36-38 minutes a night which isn't ideal over a full season, guys are going to get banged up over time, and Gay is big enough to cameo as a big in a small-ball lineup a la Grant.

He fits into the Juancho TPE and being able to aggregate Gay and Gallo this summer lets Brad do the same "matching salary + this seasons' first" trade that's netted the C's Horford, White, and Brogdon in three consecutive league years while leaving the future firsts balance sheet essentially clean.

I just don't think that Ainge is going to be eager to salary-dump Gay anymore, because somehow Utah's in sole possession of first place in the West the week of Thanksgiving.

Rudy Gay has been awful this year.  Horrendous shooting, as many turnovers as assists.  The only reason Ainge would keep Gay is if he still wanted to try to tank.

Eh, disagree. Utah's below the luxury tax line by a chunk, so there isn't much motivation to do a "Gay plus seconds into cap space/TPE" deal on Ainge's part as there might have been if they were in full tear-down/clear-the-books mode. Rudy can just be a veteran on a winning team's bench. I was hoping that Boston could pick up some minor draft capital and add a swingman version of Blake in the process. Would still do it for future aggregation purposes and a more reliable Justin Jackson alternative.

I wouldn't specifically target Gay, but if the options came down to "keep Jackson and let the TPE expire" or "trade for Gay", I'd be fine with that.  As you mention, having salaries to aggregate in the off-season would be helpful.  Gallo + Gay + Kornet could bring back $19.2 million in salary.  Add Pritchard, and it's up to $24.76 million.

I’d rather keep Jackson.  Gay was reportedly not helpful in the Jazz locker room last year, and we don’t need someone like him getting upset because he isn’t seeing the floor.  Jackson is a negative when he’s on the court, but at least he isn’t a negative when he’s off.  Gay might prove to be both.

If Gay were bought out/released, and signed up in Boston as a free agent knowing his role, then sure, I’d take him over Jackson.  But otherwise I’d let the TPE expire before using it on him.

Re: The Green Kornet
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2022, 01:37:39 PM »

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I’d rather keep Jackson.  Gay was reportedly not helpful in the Jazz locker room last year, and we don’t need someone like him getting upset because he isn’t seeing the floor.  Jackson is a negative when he’s on the court, but at least he isn’t a negative when he’s off.  Gay might prove to be both.

If Gay were bought out/released, and signed up in Boston as a free agent knowing his role, then sure, I’d take him over Jackson.  But otherwise I’d let the TPE expire before using it on him.

See, I think Gay's contract is the most attractive thing about him at this point (unless you're Wyc's wallet, I suppose). Being able to aggregate him and Gallo unlocks a completely different group of trade targets without having to discuss anyone in the current core. Whatever bench minutes he eats up in February/March are a bonus.

Re: The Green Kornet
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2022, 01:50:22 PM »

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No, but I did say he’d be perfectly capable of stepping into the rotation when Gallo went down, which is what has happened, while others wanted to trade for Rudy Gay.

I still want to trade for Rudy Gay. The team needs a minutes-eater for the dead of winter. Tatum and Brown are playing 36-38 minutes a night which isn't ideal over a full season, guys are going to get banged up over time, and Gay is big enough to cameo as a big in a small-ball lineup a la Grant.

He fits into the Juancho TPE and being able to aggregate Gay and Gallo this summer lets Brad do the same "matching salary + this seasons' first" trade that's netted the C's Horford, White, and Brogdon in three consecutive league years while leaving the future firsts balance sheet essentially clean.

I just don't think that Ainge is going to be eager to salary-dump Gay anymore, because somehow Utah's in sole possession of first place in the West the week of Thanksgiving.

Rudy Gay has been awful this year.  Horrendous shooting, as many turnovers as assists.  The only reason Ainge would keep Gay is if he still wanted to try to tank.

Eh, disagree. Utah's below the luxury tax line by a chunk, so there isn't much motivation to do a "Gay plus seconds into cap space/TPE" deal on Ainge's part as there might have been if they were in full tear-down/clear-the-books mode. Rudy can just be a veteran on a winning team's bench. I was hoping that Boston could pick up some minor draft capital and add a swingman version of Blake in the process. Would still do it for future aggregation purposes and a more reliable Justin Jackson alternative.

I wouldn't specifically target Gay, but if the options came down to "keep Jackson and let the TPE expire" or "trade for Gay", I'd be fine with that.  As you mention, having salaries to aggregate in the off-season would be helpful.  Gallo + Gay + Kornet could bring back $19.2 million in salary.  Add Pritchard, and it's up to $24.76 million.

I’d rather keep Jackson.  Gay was reportedly not helpful in the Jazz locker room last year, and we don’t need someone like him getting upset because he isn’t seeing the floor.  Jackson is a negative when he’s on the court, but at least he isn’t a negative when he’s off.  Gay might prove to be both.

If Gay were bought out/released, and signed up in Boston as a free agent knowing his role, then sure, I’d take him over Jackson.  But otherwise I’d let the TPE expire before using it on him.

Gay has been considered a very good teammate his entire career, hasn't he?  I have no idea what happened in Utah last season, but if the locker room was broken I'd say it had more to do with Mitchell and Gobert.

But, Wyc isn't going to spend the luxury tax to bring in a guy who helps marginally -- if at all -- who would be a useful trade piece next summer. 


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Re: The Green Kornet
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2022, 02:32:17 PM »

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No, but I did say he’d be perfectly capable of stepping into the rotation when Gallo went down, which is what has happened, while others wanted to trade for Rudy Gay.

I still want to trade for Rudy Gay. The team needs a minutes-eater for the dead of winter. Tatum and Brown are playing 36-38 minutes a night which isn't ideal over a full season, guys are going to get banged up over time, and Gay is big enough to cameo as a big in a small-ball lineup a la Grant.

He fits into the Juancho TPE and being able to aggregate Gay and Gallo this summer lets Brad do the same "matching salary + this seasons' first" trade that's netted the C's Horford, White, and Brogdon in three consecutive league years while leaving the future firsts balance sheet essentially clean.

I just don't think that Ainge is going to be eager to salary-dump Gay anymore, because somehow Utah's in sole possession of first place in the West the week of Thanksgiving.

Rudy Gay has been awful this year.  Horrendous shooting, as many turnovers as assists.  The only reason Ainge would keep Gay is if he still wanted to try to tank.

Eh, disagree. Utah's below the luxury tax line by a chunk, so there isn't much motivation to do a "Gay plus seconds into cap space/TPE" deal on Ainge's part as there might have been if they were in full tear-down/clear-the-books mode. Rudy can just be a veteran on a winning team's bench. I was hoping that Boston could pick up some minor draft capital and add a swingman version of Blake in the process. Would still do it for future aggregation purposes and a more reliable Justin Jackson alternative.

I wouldn't specifically target Gay, but if the options came down to "keep Jackson and let the TPE expire" or "trade for Gay", I'd be fine with that.  As you mention, having salaries to aggregate in the off-season would be helpful.  Gallo + Gay + Kornet could bring back $19.2 million in salary.  Add Pritchard, and it's up to $24.76 million.

I’d rather keep Jackson.  Gay was reportedly not helpful in the Jazz locker room last year, and we don’t need someone like him getting upset because he isn’t seeing the floor.  Jackson is a negative when he’s on the court, but at least he isn’t a negative when he’s off.  Gay might prove to be both.

If Gay were bought out/released, and signed up in Boston as a free agent knowing his role, then sure, I’d take him over Jackson.  But otherwise I’d let the TPE expire before using it on him.

Gay has been considered a very good teammate his entire career, hasn't he? I have no idea what happened in Utah last season, but if the locker room was broken I'd say it had more to do with Mitchell and Gobert.

But, Wyc isn't going to spend the luxury tax to bring in a guy who helps marginally -- if at all -- who would be a useful trade piece next summer.
Has he?

He was traded out of Memphis because he didn't fit in with the rest of the players and wouldn't play defense. They instantly got better. Toronto dumped him because he didn't fit in with the rest of the players and wouldn't play defense. Toronto got better. He then signed and stayed in one of the most dysfunctional teams with one of the worst locker rooms in Sacramento for 3 1-2 years. He seems to have been a good soldier in San Antonio, but was there during their bad downturn.  Now there's rumors he doesn't fit in Utah.

It appears he has problems fitting everywhere he has been and seemed to thrive on bad teams. Is that a playing style fit? A locker room fit? A mental attitude fit? I'm not sure, but there's enough smoke there for me to be worried about trading for him and him fitting in here.

Re: The Green Kornet
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2022, 02:34:37 PM »

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No, but I did say he’d be perfectly capable of stepping into the rotation when Gallo went down, which is what has happened, while others wanted to trade for Rudy Gay.

I still want to trade for Rudy Gay. The team needs a minutes-eater for the dead of winter. Tatum and Brown are playing 36-38 minutes a night which isn't ideal over a full season, guys are going to get banged up over time, and Gay is big enough to cameo as a big in a small-ball lineup a la Grant.

He fits into the Juancho TPE and being able to aggregate Gay and Gallo this summer lets Brad do the same "matching salary + this seasons' first" trade that's netted the C's Horford, White, and Brogdon in three consecutive league years while leaving the future firsts balance sheet essentially clean.

I just don't think that Ainge is going to be eager to salary-dump Gay anymore, because somehow Utah's in sole possession of first place in the West the week of Thanksgiving.

Rudy Gay has been awful this year.  Horrendous shooting, as many turnovers as assists.  The only reason Ainge would keep Gay is if he still wanted to try to tank.

Eh, disagree. Utah's below the luxury tax line by a chunk, so there isn't much motivation to do a "Gay plus seconds into cap space/TPE" deal on Ainge's part as there might have been if they were in full tear-down/clear-the-books mode. Rudy can just be a veteran on a winning team's bench. I was hoping that Boston could pick up some minor draft capital and add a swingman version of Blake in the process. Would still do it for future aggregation purposes and a more reliable Justin Jackson alternative.

I wouldn't specifically target Gay, but if the options came down to "keep Jackson and let the TPE expire" or "trade for Gay", I'd be fine with that.  As you mention, having salaries to aggregate in the off-season would be helpful.  Gallo + Gay + Kornet could bring back $19.2 million in salary.  Add Pritchard, and it's up to $24.76 million.

I’d rather keep Jackson.  Gay was reportedly not helpful in the Jazz locker room last year, and we don’t need someone like him getting upset because he isn’t seeing the floor.  Jackson is a negative when he’s on the court, but at least he isn’t a negative when he’s off.  Gay might prove to be both.

If Gay were bought out/released, and signed up in Boston as a free agent knowing his role, then sure, I’d take him over Jackson.  But otherwise I’d let the TPE expire before using it on him.

Gay has been considered a very good teammate his entire career, hasn't he? I have no idea what happened in Utah last season, but if the locker room was broken I'd say it had more to do with Mitchell and Gobert.

But, Wyc isn't going to spend the luxury tax to bring in a guy who helps marginally -- if at all -- who would be a useful trade piece next summer.
Has he?

He was traded out of Memphis because he didn't fit in with the rest of the players and wouldn't play defense. They instantly got better. Toronto dumped him because he didn't fit in with the rest of the players and wouldn't play defense. Toronto got better. He then signed and stayed in one of the most dysfunctional teams with one of the worst locker rooms in Sacramento for 3 1-2 years. He seems to have been a good soldier in San Antonio, but was there during their bad downturn.  Now there's rumors he doesn't fit in Utah.

It appears he has problems fitting everywhere he has been and seemed to thrive on bad teams. Is that a playing style fit? A locker room fit? A mental attitude fit? I'm not sure, but there's enough smoke there for me to be worried about trading for him and him fitting in here.

Links?


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Re: The Green Kornet
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2022, 02:35:36 PM »

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No, but I did say he’d be perfectly capable of stepping into the rotation when Gallo went down, which is what has happened, while others wanted to trade for Rudy Gay.

I still want to trade for Rudy Gay. The team needs a minutes-eater for the dead of winter. Tatum and Brown are playing 36-38 minutes a night which isn't ideal over a full season, guys are going to get banged up over time, and Gay is big enough to cameo as a big in a small-ball lineup a la Grant.

He fits into the Juancho TPE and being able to aggregate Gay and Gallo this summer lets Brad do the same "matching salary + this seasons' first" trade that's netted the C's Horford, White, and Brogdon in three consecutive league years while leaving the future firsts balance sheet essentially clean.

I just don't think that Ainge is going to be eager to salary-dump Gay anymore, because somehow Utah's in sole possession of first place in the West the week of Thanksgiving.

Rudy Gay has been awful this year.  Horrendous shooting, as many turnovers as assists.  The only reason Ainge would keep Gay is if he still wanted to try to tank.

Eh, disagree. Utah's below the luxury tax line by a chunk, so there isn't much motivation to do a "Gay plus seconds into cap space/TPE" deal on Ainge's part as there might have been if they were in full tear-down/clear-the-books mode. Rudy can just be a veteran on a winning team's bench. I was hoping that Boston could pick up some minor draft capital and add a swingman version of Blake in the process. Would still do it for future aggregation purposes and a more reliable Justin Jackson alternative.

I wouldn't specifically target Gay, but if the options came down to "keep Jackson and let the TPE expire" or "trade for Gay", I'd be fine with that.  As you mention, having salaries to aggregate in the off-season would be helpful.  Gallo + Gay + Kornet could bring back $19.2 million in salary.  Add Pritchard, and it's up to $24.76 million.

I’d rather keep Jackson.  Gay was reportedly not helpful in the Jazz locker room last year, and we don’t need someone like him getting upset because he isn’t seeing the floor.  Jackson is a negative when he’s on the court, but at least he isn’t a negative when he’s off.  Gay might prove to be both.

If Gay were bought out/released, and signed up in Boston as a free agent knowing his role, then sure, I’d take him over Jackson.  But otherwise I’d let the TPE expire before using it on him.

Gay has been considered a very good teammate his entire career, hasn't he?  I have no idea what happened in Utah last season, but if the locker room was broken I'd say it had more to do with Mitchell and Gobert.

But, Wyc isn't going to spend the luxury tax to bring in a guy who helps marginally -- if at all -- who would be a useful trade piece next summer.

I mean, maybe it'd be fine.  But he might literally be the 13th man on the roster after TL comes back (ahead of one of Griffin or Vonleh, as well as the injured Gallinari) -- if there's the chance he's going to cause problems about not playing, it's simply not worth it.  There's no way to argue that he should play over Hauser, and if the only thing going for Gay is that he's an expiring deal for next summer, that's not a very strong endorsement.

I'm still after Kenrich Williams.  He seems like a better fit for depth.  Similar salary for next summer for trading purposes (although not expiring).  Barely above the minimum this year -- even fits into the Bol Bol TPE.

Re: The Green Kornet
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2022, 02:37:10 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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No, but I did say he’d be perfectly capable of stepping into the rotation when Gallo went down, which is what has happened, while others wanted to trade for Rudy Gay.

I still want to trade for Rudy Gay. The team needs a minutes-eater for the dead of winter. Tatum and Brown are playing 36-38 minutes a night which isn't ideal over a full season, guys are going to get banged up over time, and Gay is big enough to cameo as a big in a small-ball lineup a la Grant.

He fits into the Juancho TPE and being able to aggregate Gay and Gallo this summer lets Brad do the same "matching salary + this seasons' first" trade that's netted the C's Horford, White, and Brogdon in three consecutive league years while leaving the future firsts balance sheet essentially clean.

I just don't think that Ainge is going to be eager to salary-dump Gay anymore, because somehow Utah's in sole possession of first place in the West the week of Thanksgiving.

Rudy Gay has been awful this year.  Horrendous shooting, as many turnovers as assists.  The only reason Ainge would keep Gay is if he still wanted to try to tank.

Eh, disagree. Utah's below the luxury tax line by a chunk, so there isn't much motivation to do a "Gay plus seconds into cap space/TPE" deal on Ainge's part as there might have been if they were in full tear-down/clear-the-books mode. Rudy can just be a veteran on a winning team's bench. I was hoping that Boston could pick up some minor draft capital and add a swingman version of Blake in the process. Would still do it for future aggregation purposes and a more reliable Justin Jackson alternative.

I wouldn't specifically target Gay, but if the options came down to "keep Jackson and let the TPE expire" or "trade for Gay", I'd be fine with that.  As you mention, having salaries to aggregate in the off-season would be helpful.  Gallo + Gay + Kornet could bring back $19.2 million in salary.  Add Pritchard, and it's up to $24.76 million.

I’d rather keep Jackson.  Gay was reportedly not helpful in the Jazz locker room last year, and we don’t need someone like him getting upset because he isn’t seeing the floor.  Jackson is a negative when he’s on the court, but at least he isn’t a negative when he’s off.  Gay might prove to be both.

If Gay were bought out/released, and signed up in Boston as a free agent knowing his role, then sure, I’d take him over Jackson.  But otherwise I’d let the TPE expire before using it on him.

Gay has been considered a very good teammate his entire career, hasn't he? I have no idea what happened in Utah last season, but if the locker room was broken I'd say it had more to do with Mitchell and Gobert.

But, Wyc isn't going to spend the luxury tax to bring in a guy who helps marginally -- if at all -- who would be a useful trade piece next summer.
Has he?

He was traded out of Memphis because he didn't fit in with the rest of the players and wouldn't play defense. They instantly got better. Toronto dumped him because he didn't fit in with the rest of the players and wouldn't play defense. Toronto got better. He then signed and stayed in one of the most dysfunctional teams with one of the worst locker rooms in Sacramento for 3 1-2 years. He seems to have been a good soldier in San Antonio, but was there during their bad downturn.  Now there's rumors he doesn't fit in Utah.

It appears he has problems fitting everywhere he has been and seemed to thrive on bad teams. Is that a playing style fit? A locker room fit? A mental attitude fit? I'm not sure, but there's enough smoke there for me to be worried about trading for him and him fitting in here.

Links?
Look em up yourself. They're out there. Heck, I remember talking about this in CB Draft threads when people drafted Gay. It's not like I'm saying something that isn't fairly common knowledge.

Re: The Green Kornet
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2022, 02:49:11 PM »

Online Roy H.

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No, but I did say he’d be perfectly capable of stepping into the rotation when Gallo went down, which is what has happened, while others wanted to trade for Rudy Gay.

I still want to trade for Rudy Gay. The team needs a minutes-eater for the dead of winter. Tatum and Brown are playing 36-38 minutes a night which isn't ideal over a full season, guys are going to get banged up over time, and Gay is big enough to cameo as a big in a small-ball lineup a la Grant.

He fits into the Juancho TPE and being able to aggregate Gay and Gallo this summer lets Brad do the same "matching salary + this seasons' first" trade that's netted the C's Horford, White, and Brogdon in three consecutive league years while leaving the future firsts balance sheet essentially clean.

I just don't think that Ainge is going to be eager to salary-dump Gay anymore, because somehow Utah's in sole possession of first place in the West the week of Thanksgiving.

Rudy Gay has been awful this year.  Horrendous shooting, as many turnovers as assists.  The only reason Ainge would keep Gay is if he still wanted to try to tank.

Eh, disagree. Utah's below the luxury tax line by a chunk, so there isn't much motivation to do a "Gay plus seconds into cap space/TPE" deal on Ainge's part as there might have been if they were in full tear-down/clear-the-books mode. Rudy can just be a veteran on a winning team's bench. I was hoping that Boston could pick up some minor draft capital and add a swingman version of Blake in the process. Would still do it for future aggregation purposes and a more reliable Justin Jackson alternative.

I wouldn't specifically target Gay, but if the options came down to "keep Jackson and let the TPE expire" or "trade for Gay", I'd be fine with that.  As you mention, having salaries to aggregate in the off-season would be helpful.  Gallo + Gay + Kornet could bring back $19.2 million in salary.  Add Pritchard, and it's up to $24.76 million.

I’d rather keep Jackson.  Gay was reportedly not helpful in the Jazz locker room last year, and we don’t need someone like him getting upset because he isn’t seeing the floor.  Jackson is a negative when he’s on the court, but at least he isn’t a negative when he’s off.  Gay might prove to be both.

If Gay were bought out/released, and signed up in Boston as a free agent knowing his role, then sure, I’d take him over Jackson.  But otherwise I’d let the TPE expire before using it on him.

Gay has been considered a very good teammate his entire career, hasn't he? I have no idea what happened in Utah last season, but if the locker room was broken I'd say it had more to do with Mitchell and Gobert.

But, Wyc isn't going to spend the luxury tax to bring in a guy who helps marginally -- if at all -- who would be a useful trade piece next summer.
Has he?

He was traded out of Memphis because he didn't fit in with the rest of the players and wouldn't play defense. They instantly got better. Toronto dumped him because he didn't fit in with the rest of the players and wouldn't play defense. Toronto got better. He then signed and stayed in one of the most dysfunctional teams with one of the worst locker rooms in Sacramento for 3 1-2 years. He seems to have been a good soldier in San Antonio, but was there during their bad downturn.  Now there's rumors he doesn't fit in Utah.

It appears he has problems fitting everywhere he has been and seemed to thrive on bad teams. Is that a playing style fit? A locker room fit? A mental attitude fit? I'm not sure, but there's enough smoke there for me to be worried about trading for him and him fitting in here.

Links?
Look em up yourself. They're out there. Heck, I remember talking about this in CB Draft threads when people drafted Gay. It's not like I'm saying something that isn't fairly common knowledge.

I've never heard that he's a bad teammate in the locker room.  He wasn't necessarily a good fit for a high-volume role.

I mean, Pops loved him, and he was nominated for Teammate of the Year a couple of years back.  Chemistry isn't a giant risk with him.


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Re: The Green Kornet
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2022, 02:55:19 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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No, but I did say he’d be perfectly capable of stepping into the rotation when Gallo went down, which is what has happened, while others wanted to trade for Rudy Gay.

I still want to trade for Rudy Gay. The team needs a minutes-eater for the dead of winter. Tatum and Brown are playing 36-38 minutes a night which isn't ideal over a full season, guys are going to get banged up over time, and Gay is big enough to cameo as a big in a small-ball lineup a la Grant.

He fits into the Juancho TPE and being able to aggregate Gay and Gallo this summer lets Brad do the same "matching salary + this seasons' first" trade that's netted the C's Horford, White, and Brogdon in three consecutive league years while leaving the future firsts balance sheet essentially clean.

I just don't think that Ainge is going to be eager to salary-dump Gay anymore, because somehow Utah's in sole possession of first place in the West the week of Thanksgiving.

Rudy Gay has been awful this year.  Horrendous shooting, as many turnovers as assists.  The only reason Ainge would keep Gay is if he still wanted to try to tank.

Eh, disagree. Utah's below the luxury tax line by a chunk, so there isn't much motivation to do a "Gay plus seconds into cap space/TPE" deal on Ainge's part as there might have been if they were in full tear-down/clear-the-books mode. Rudy can just be a veteran on a winning team's bench. I was hoping that Boston could pick up some minor draft capital and add a swingman version of Blake in the process. Would still do it for future aggregation purposes and a more reliable Justin Jackson alternative.

I wouldn't specifically target Gay, but if the options came down to "keep Jackson and let the TPE expire" or "trade for Gay", I'd be fine with that.  As you mention, having salaries to aggregate in the off-season would be helpful.  Gallo + Gay + Kornet could bring back $19.2 million in salary.  Add Pritchard, and it's up to $24.76 million.

I’d rather keep Jackson.  Gay was reportedly not helpful in the Jazz locker room last year, and we don’t need someone like him getting upset because he isn’t seeing the floor.  Jackson is a negative when he’s on the court, but at least he isn’t a negative when he’s off.  Gay might prove to be both.

If Gay were bought out/released, and signed up in Boston as a free agent knowing his role, then sure, I’d take him over Jackson.  But otherwise I’d let the TPE expire before using it on him.

Gay has been considered a very good teammate his entire career, hasn't he? I have no idea what happened in Utah last season, but if the locker room was broken I'd say it had more to do with Mitchell and Gobert.

But, Wyc isn't going to spend the luxury tax to bring in a guy who helps marginally -- if at all -- who would be a useful trade piece next summer.
Has he?

He was traded out of Memphis because he didn't fit in with the rest of the players and wouldn't play defense. They instantly got better. Toronto dumped him because he didn't fit in with the rest of the players and wouldn't play defense. Toronto got better. He then signed and stayed in one of the most dysfunctional teams with one of the worst locker rooms in Sacramento for 3 1-2 years. He seems to have been a good soldier in San Antonio, but was there during their bad downturn.  Now there's rumors he doesn't fit in Utah.

It appears he has problems fitting everywhere he has been and seemed to thrive on bad teams. Is that a playing style fit? A locker room fit? A mental attitude fit? I'm not sure, but there's enough smoke there for me to be worried about trading for him and him fitting in here.

Links?
Look em up yourself. They're out there. Heck, I remember talking about this in CB Draft threads when people drafted Gay. It's not like I'm saying something that isn't fairly common knowledge.

I've never heard that he's a bad teammate in the locker room.  He wasn't necessarily a good fit for a high-volume role.

I mean, Pops loved him, and he was nominated for Teammate of the Year a couple of years back.  Chemistry isn't a giant risk with him.
I never said he was a bad locker room guy. I said he didn't fit with players and didn't want to play defense. I said he decided to stay with a dysfunctional team in a dysfunctional locker room. I questioned whether it was a play style, locker room or mental attitude problem. I said there were rumors of him having issues in Utah. Because of the history, I question whether he would fit here because, except for San Antonio, he has either not fit with good teams, for whatever reasons, or thrived on bad ones. Given the downturn in his game, there's no need to take the chance in figuring out why his history is what it is.

Re: The Green Kornet
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2022, 03:00:42 PM »

Online Roy H.

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No, but I did say he’d be perfectly capable of stepping into the rotation when Gallo went down, which is what has happened, while others wanted to trade for Rudy Gay.

I still want to trade for Rudy Gay. The team needs a minutes-eater for the dead of winter. Tatum and Brown are playing 36-38 minutes a night which isn't ideal over a full season, guys are going to get banged up over time, and Gay is big enough to cameo as a big in a small-ball lineup a la Grant.

He fits into the Juancho TPE and being able to aggregate Gay and Gallo this summer lets Brad do the same "matching salary + this seasons' first" trade that's netted the C's Horford, White, and Brogdon in three consecutive league years while leaving the future firsts balance sheet essentially clean.

I just don't think that Ainge is going to be eager to salary-dump Gay anymore, because somehow Utah's in sole possession of first place in the West the week of Thanksgiving.

Rudy Gay has been awful this year.  Horrendous shooting, as many turnovers as assists.  The only reason Ainge would keep Gay is if he still wanted to try to tank.

Eh, disagree. Utah's below the luxury tax line by a chunk, so there isn't much motivation to do a "Gay plus seconds into cap space/TPE" deal on Ainge's part as there might have been if they were in full tear-down/clear-the-books mode. Rudy can just be a veteran on a winning team's bench. I was hoping that Boston could pick up some minor draft capital and add a swingman version of Blake in the process. Would still do it for future aggregation purposes and a more reliable Justin Jackson alternative.

I wouldn't specifically target Gay, but if the options came down to "keep Jackson and let the TPE expire" or "trade for Gay", I'd be fine with that.  As you mention, having salaries to aggregate in the off-season would be helpful.  Gallo + Gay + Kornet could bring back $19.2 million in salary.  Add Pritchard, and it's up to $24.76 million.

I’d rather keep Jackson.  Gay was reportedly not helpful in the Jazz locker room last year, and we don’t need someone like him getting upset because he isn’t seeing the floor.  Jackson is a negative when he’s on the court, but at least he isn’t a negative when he’s off.  Gay might prove to be both.

If Gay were bought out/released, and signed up in Boston as a free agent knowing his role, then sure, I’d take him over Jackson.  But otherwise I’d let the TPE expire before using it on him.

Gay has been considered a very good teammate his entire career, hasn't he? I have no idea what happened in Utah last season, but if the locker room was broken I'd say it had more to do with Mitchell and Gobert.

But, Wyc isn't going to spend the luxury tax to bring in a guy who helps marginally -- if at all -- who would be a useful trade piece next summer.
Has he?

He was traded out of Memphis because he didn't fit in with the rest of the players and wouldn't play defense. They instantly got better. Toronto dumped him because he didn't fit in with the rest of the players and wouldn't play defense. Toronto got better. He then signed and stayed in one of the most dysfunctional teams with one of the worst locker rooms in Sacramento for 3 1-2 years. He seems to have been a good soldier in San Antonio, but was there during their bad downturn.  Now there's rumors he doesn't fit in Utah.

It appears he has problems fitting everywhere he has been and seemed to thrive on bad teams. Is that a playing style fit? A locker room fit? A mental attitude fit? I'm not sure, but there's enough smoke there for me to be worried about trading for him and him fitting in here.

Links?
Look em up yourself. They're out there. Heck, I remember talking about this in CB Draft threads when people drafted Gay. It's not like I'm saying something that isn't fairly common knowledge.

I've never heard that he's a bad teammate in the locker room.  He wasn't necessarily a good fit for a high-volume role.

I mean, Pops loved him, and he was nominated for Teammate of the Year a couple of years back.  Chemistry isn't a giant risk with him.
I never said he was a bad locker room guy. I said he didn't fit with players and didn't want to play defense. I said he decided to stay with a dysfunctional team in a dysfunctional locker room. I questioned whether it was a play style, locker room or mental attitude problem. I said there were rumors of him having issues in Utah. Because of the history, I question whether he would fit here because, except for San Antonio, he has either not fit with good teams, for whatever reasons, or thrived on bad ones. Given the downturn in his game, there's no need to take the chance in figuring out why his history is what it is.

And you provided all of that is response to me saying that he's been a good teammate.  The concern is his fit in the locker room, not whether he's going to mesh with JB and JT on the court.  His role would be so small that would be irrelevant.

Much like with the $17 million TPE, it's better to use the TPE on something, rather than nothing.  Getting Gay solely to be a veteran mentor, a "break in case of emergency" 14th man who wouldn't even suit up, and as a $6 million expiring to aggregate next season would be better than doing nothing.  Just like trading the $17 TPE for a large expiring contract would have been better than nothing.


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