Are there other cases like B simmons in the nba?

[bdm860]

Darko fits the bill too I think. When he became a defensive specialist he was actually very useful, I was sad when his tenure with the Celtics was cut short. I thought he was going to be very helpful to us.

Darko is a different kind of problem.  With guys like him, it's an ego/attitude problem, where they can't accept a reduced role, so they end up out of the league altogether.  Darko, Keith Bogans, Allen Iverson, Latrell Sprewell, Marbury, etc.  (Thought this was going to be Carmelo after the "Aye P, they said I got to come off the bench" comment and failed Houston experiment, was surprised he held on a few more years).

I imagine guys like Darko in Boston were explained what their role was going to be, and they assured the team they were good with it, but can't deal with it once actually faced with it.  Like Iverson in Memphis, he said he was okay coming off the bench, but quit the team because of it after 3 games.  It's one thing to say it ("I'm okay with this role"), but it's another thing to watch your team lose while you think you're better than the 2-3 guys ahead of you on the depth chart.  These guys always seem to have a very inflated view of their current skill level.

This seems to be a big reason why Dwight Howard isn't in the league right now.  And I wonder if this is what has been Cousins' problem lately too.  Cousins is a guy who has said the right things to the press (okay coming off the bench, okay with a reduced role), but maybe he's constantly complaining in the locker room about it?  (Just a guess as to why a guy who still seems productive hasn't found a home).

I don't think that was Darko's issue at all, he was playing a reduced role as it was through pretty much his whole career. As I recall it there were 2 things maybe, Doc wasn't playing him at all (which is to your point, but there's a wide gap between not playing at all and playing a reduced role) and his mom was sick or something. I thought it was a mistake Doc not playing him at all. It was only preseason, but we played quite well from what I recall when Darko was in and his defense was welcomed.

I always thought the mom thing was an excuse rather than a legit reason.  Outside of Jrue Holiday, how many players take an extended leave for personal reasons when they're actually playing?  Not a coincidence that it only ever seems to happen to people not playing.  Unless you're Derek Fisher who uses it to get released from teams he doesn't want to be on (Utah, Dallas).

Though I too thought Doc could have used him more, I 100% believe he left the team solely because he wasn't playing.

[Moranis]

Simmons had back surgery in April.  Seems a bit premature to write this off as completely mental.  I'm sure that is a part of it, but lots and lots of players are hesitant to get hit after having back surgery.

Seeing people wondering if Simmons can be an All-League defender again after that back surgery.

Backs are no joke and it was 6 months ago he had surgery.  I just don't think the national media is really putting that into contex properly.  It often takes months of playing before guys really trust their back not to give out.

[ozgod]

I know some promising careers have obviously been derailed by drugs or criminal activity, but has anyone ever fallen so far from just losing their confidence/attitude? There is talk of him coming off the bench now and he has now refused to shoot for years.

I don't know if it was due to losing confidence, but I always saw Derrick Coleman as someone who didn't reach his potential because of a perceived lack of effort or desire to improve.

[cletus1985]

I know some promising careers have obviously been derailed by drugs or criminal activity, but has anyone ever fallen so far from just losing their confidence/attitude? There is talk of him coming off the bench now and he has now refused to shoot for years.

I don't know if it was due to losing confidence, but I always saw Derrick Coleman as someone who didn't reach his potential because of a perceived lack of effort or desire to improve.

I see Coleman as more a lack of effort case.  Best comparison IMHO  is Nick Anderson,  after missing 4 free throws in a row in the Finals he went from a 75% shooter to around 25% for the remainder of his career.  That was a complete mental break.

[wdleehi]

I don't think we are seeing the best of Simmons yet.   Coming back from a back injury and being part of one of the most dysfunctional teams in the NBA right now.   


Is this a fair shot for him to get back to what he was?   

[freshinthehouse]

Keon Clark was somewhat similar.  He just never wanted to play NBA basketball.  He played a few years, didn't like it, but the money was too good to turn away.  He quit in his mid 20s and just moved home and played golf every day.  There was a great article about it, but I can't find it unfortunately. 

[Celtics4ever]

Fultz and Simmons were peas from the same pod.   Horrible collegiate records but favored pick status.  There are reasons neither of them dominated in college in terms of wins and losses.

Darko is not the same boat.   He was a hide them Euro Bust guy.  Over hyped from the beginning irrational exuberance just like Dragan Bender.

[Big333223]

Danny Fortson forgot how to play without fouling soon as he got to the C's!

Not the same as Simmons, but both Shawn Kemp and Vin Baker come to mind.  They were later in their careers, but both seemed to fall off a cliff.  Drugs/alcohol were involved with them, but there's the chicken and egg question of what came first.  Did they lose their skills/confidence and then turn to drugs/alcohol (making the decline even worse), or did drugs/alcohol lead to their declines?

I think that's a good question. How many guys in the history of the league went through something similar to whatever Simmons is going through now but understand it or know how to deal with it and so turned to drugs or alcohol? No way of knowing.

As for guys who totally fell off a cliff: I was never clear on what happened to Gilbert Arenas. Was it just injuries?

Ben Gordon also comes to mind. He looked like a star on the rise in Chicago, went to Detroit and was never any good again.

[Who]

As for guys who totally fell off a cliff: I was never clear on what happened to Gilbert Arenas. Was it just injuries?

Just injuries. I forget the injury. I think it was something to do with his knee.

But he lost that explosive speed to beat his defender which meant less easy hoops at the basket off of drives, less free throws, more jump-shots, jump-shots which he struggled to get separation from the defender because of his lack of quickness meaning contested shots which he hit at a lower percentage. All culminating in his scoring efficiency dropping through the floor. He was a disaster. He went from one of the best offensive players in the league to a negative on offense; a guy who hurt his team.

And that was only on the offense side. He was even worse on the defensive side. He was always a lazy defender but now he no longer had the quickness to stay in front of anyone and he became the worst or near the worst defensive PG in the league playing big minutes so he was a huge net negative on that side of the floor as well.