Author Topic: Robert Sarver suspended one year, fined $10 million  (Read 11781 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Robert Sarver suspended one year, fined $10 million
« Reply #75 on: September 15, 2022, 12:54:16 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33644
  • Tommy Points: 1548
So - what people think about Edwards does not necessarily have a real place in any discussion they may have about Sarver. There's absolutely no reason for the opposite to be the case.

One instance has A/V evidence and the other does not. One affects youth, and contributes to future bullying of LGBTQ youth who choose to die by suicide; the other does not affect youth or indirectly cause suicides.

It’s pretty clear which instance is actually worse in terms of impact on society. But Nobody is calling for Edwards to be forced to leave the NBA. So many are, like, “oh, players will be players - $50,000 fine and move on.” Yet because certain actors try to insist that Sarver must sell, because there are actors behind the scenes who are using the media to try to manipulate a sale at discount, we act more outraged about Sarver?

An NBA player has contributed to a problem that causes LGBTQ youth to die by suicide. That’s blood. Sarver does not have blood on his hands. Where’s the calls for a one year suspension for Edwards so the penalty is comparable to Sarver? It’s coming from here. But not from others. And I see nobody saying both Sarver and Edwards deserve a lifetime ban, but plenty of folks saying Sarver should receive such treatment. Again, he has no blood on his hands…
Yeah it is clear, the one that is worse, is the one in which the guy writing the paychecks for 18 years has discriminated against, belittled, and even exposed himself to his employees.  A guy that created an environment so toxic that employees were regularly pushed to tears and in which the human resources department ignored the conduct because it was from the guy writing the checks.  There is no comparison, what Sarver did is SIGNIFICANTLY worse than Edwards saying some offense things in a video.  There is no comparison. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Robert Sarver suspended one year, fined $10 million
« Reply #76 on: September 15, 2022, 02:01:46 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48120
  • Tommy Points: 8794
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
I'm willing to give young men the benefit of the doubt for being caught using terrible language. They tend to be immature and still using stupid language to describe those they hang with, those they don't and things they see done. I know I had to work hard to get a couple of my young men to stop using such language.

Anthony Edwards is 21 years old. He called some people he didn't know something really stupid. Fine plus some mandatory insensitivity training seems right.

Sarver is 60 and should know better. But he not only doesn't know better, he built a work place environment where this was fostered as acceptable behavior for more than a decade. People should not have to put up with such crap at work.

It's actually illegal.

People shouldn't have to just put up with the racist, sexist, homophobic or xenophobic comments and actions of the powerful people that own the companies they work for. Such long term behavior from those powerful people should have massively worse consequences than a 21 year old kid being caught using racial or homophobic slurs for the first time.

Re: Robert Sarver suspended one year, fined $10 million
« Reply #77 on: September 15, 2022, 11:27:13 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33644
  • Tommy Points: 1548
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Robert Sarver suspended one year, fined $10 million
« Reply #78 on: September 16, 2022, 01:43:11 AM »

Offline nickagneta

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48120
  • Tommy Points: 8794
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34600876/phoenix-suns-minority-owner-jahm-najafi-calls-robert-sarver-resignation
Good for Najafi. He is right, for the most part. Team owners are just stewards of the team's they own, for the most part. Yes some franchises move, but it's usually been the same teams moving. Point is, they owe it to the city and fans they play to/for to have certain standards in which your employees get to work within. If they can't provide it, they should move on and allow someone else to.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2022, 01:48:13 AM by nickagneta »

Re: Robert Sarver suspended one year, fined $10 million
« Reply #79 on: September 16, 2022, 04:16:05 AM »

Offline gouki88

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31552
  • Tommy Points: 3141
  • 2019 & 2021 CS Historical Draft Champion
The only real line to be drawn between Edwards and Sarver is that the number of players who are engage in homophobic behaviour & language is likely much larger than the league would like to admit.

Just like most of the owners are much worse in their behaviour than the league would like to admit.

Otherwise we should leave the Edwards discussion in the Edwards thread, I think.

Everyone is trying to act outraged by Sarver, but there’s no A/V evidence and nobody died by suicide as a result of Sarver’s behavior. Bullying of LGBTQ youth has been a thing forever because of nonsense like Edwards’ comments being tolerated. NBA players need to police Edwards before thinking they have some standing to question the Commissioner’s maximum penalty for Sarver. And anybody who is just so outraged by Sarver’s reported behavior has to look in the mirror and ask them self why they think Sarver should be banned from the NBA for life but Edwards should be given a $50K fine, particularly given the absolute absence of audio/visual evidence against Sarver and how Edwards’ comments do considerable harm to minors (minors were obviously not impacted by Sarver’s behavior).

Let’s help LGBTQ youth by being outraged such that Edwards gets banned for a year, and not be another puppet in someone’s quest to essentially steal the Suns from Sarver, which is probably what most of this is all about. The owners know if Sarver goes down over this without any A/V evidence and no jury finding him guilty of a crime or civil wrongdoing, any one of them could be next.

We literally have a video of an NBA player with anti-gay slurs that was posted online by the player. It’s being emulated by some wayward youth, and affecting LGBTQ youth. The NBAPA should request the NBA suspend Edwards for a year for this. This should be the moment to show this is no longer tolerated. Like Sarver, Edwards can spend the next year thinking about how his behaviors affected others and can come back rehabilitated with a second chance given.
Wondering if I have a case against you for the whiplash you caused me from an involuntary episode of violently shaking my head.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Robert Sarver suspended one year, fined $10 million
« Reply #80 on: September 16, 2022, 08:46:30 AM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58767
  • Tommy Points: -25628
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
The only real line to be drawn between Edwards and Sarver is that the number of players who are engage in homophobic behaviour & language is likely much larger than the league would like to admit.

Just like most of the owners are much worse in their behaviour than the league would like to admit.

Otherwise we should leave the Edwards discussion in the Edwards thread, I think.

Everyone is trying to act outraged by Sarver, but there’s no A/V evidence and nobody died by suicide as a result of Sarver’s behavior. Bullying of LGBTQ youth has been a thing forever because of nonsense like Edwards’ comments being tolerated. NBA players need to police Edwards before thinking they have some standing to question the Commissioner’s maximum penalty for Sarver. And anybody who is just so outraged by Sarver’s reported behavior has to look in the mirror and ask them self why they think Sarver should be banned from the NBA for life but Edwards should be given a $50K fine, particularly given the absolute absence of audio/visual evidence against Sarver and how Edwards’ comments do considerable harm to minors (minors were obviously not impacted by Sarver’s behavior).

Let’s help LGBTQ youth by being outraged such that Edwards gets banned for a year, and not be another puppet in someone’s quest to essentially steal the Suns from Sarver, which is probably what most of this is all about. The owners know if Sarver goes down over this without any A/V evidence and no jury finding him guilty of a crime or civil wrongdoing, any one of them could be next.

We literally have a video of an NBA player with anti-gay slurs that was posted online by the player. It’s being emulated by some wayward youth, and affecting LGBTQ youth. The NBAPA should request the NBA suspend Edwards for a year for this. This should be the moment to show this is no longer tolerated. Like Sarver, Edwards can spend the next year thinking about how his behaviors affected others and can come back rehabilitated with a second chance given.

If your argument is that homophobic comments horrible because homophobic bullying can lead to suicide, I get that.

But to then argue that Sarver’s actions never led to suicide is, at best, inconsistent.  Neither did Edwards’.  But, Sarver engaged in racist and sexist language, physical sexual harassment, belittling and bullying, etc.  Certainly, that sort of unhealthy, hostile workplace has led to suicides, right?


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Robert Sarver suspended one year, fined $10 million
« Reply #81 on: September 16, 2022, 09:15:39 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33644
  • Tommy Points: 1548
The only real line to be drawn between Edwards and Sarver is that the number of players who are engage in homophobic behaviour & language is likely much larger than the league would like to admit.

Just like most of the owners are much worse in their behaviour than the league would like to admit.

Otherwise we should leave the Edwards discussion in the Edwards thread, I think.

Everyone is trying to act outraged by Sarver, but there’s no A/V evidence and nobody died by suicide as a result of Sarver’s behavior. Bullying of LGBTQ youth has been a thing forever because of nonsense like Edwards’ comments being tolerated. NBA players need to police Edwards before thinking they have some standing to question the Commissioner’s maximum penalty for Sarver. And anybody who is just so outraged by Sarver’s reported behavior has to look in the mirror and ask them self why they think Sarver should be banned from the NBA for life but Edwards should be given a $50K fine, particularly given the absolute absence of audio/visual evidence against Sarver and how Edwards’ comments do considerable harm to minors (minors were obviously not impacted by Sarver’s behavior).

Let’s help LGBTQ youth by being outraged such that Edwards gets banned for a year, and not be another puppet in someone’s quest to essentially steal the Suns from Sarver, which is probably what most of this is all about. The owners know if Sarver goes down over this without any A/V evidence and no jury finding him guilty of a crime or civil wrongdoing, any one of them could be next.

We literally have a video of an NBA player with anti-gay slurs that was posted online by the player. It’s being emulated by some wayward youth, and affecting LGBTQ youth. The NBAPA should request the NBA suspend Edwards for a year for this. This should be the moment to show this is no longer tolerated. Like Sarver, Edwards can spend the next year thinking about how his behaviors affected others and can come back rehabilitated with a second chance given.

If your argument is that homophobic comments horrible because homophobic bullying can lead to suicide, I get that.

But to then argue that Sarver’s actions never led to suicide is, at best, inconsistent.  Neither did Edwards’.  But, Sarver engaged in racist and sexist language, physical sexual harassment, belittling and bullying, etc.  Certainly, that sort of unhealthy, hostile workplace has led to suicides, right?
In furtherance of this point, Edwards wasn't actually bullying anyone while Sarver absolutely was. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Robert Sarver suspended one year, fined $10 million
« Reply #82 on: September 16, 2022, 09:32:28 AM »

Offline boscel33

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2668
  • Tommy Points: 166
Seeing the news this morning that a minority owner is requesting Sarver step down.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34600876/phoenix-suns-minority-owner-jahm-najafi-calls-robert-sarver-resignation
"There's sharks and minnows in this world. If you don't know which you are, you ain't a shark."

Re: Robert Sarver suspended one year, fined $10 million
« Reply #83 on: September 16, 2022, 12:38:01 PM »

Offline Kernewek

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3841
  • Tommy Points: 264
  • International Superstar
Quote
PayPal, the jersey patch partner of the Phoenix Suns, on Friday said it would not be renewing its sponsorship with the team should majority owner Robert Sarver continue in his role following his one-year suspension for racist and misogynist remarks.

"PayPal is a values-driven company and has a strong record of combatting racism, sexism and all forms of discrimination," PayPal CEO and president Dan Schulman said in a statement. "We have reviewed the report of the NBA league's independent investigation into Phoenix Suns owner Robert Sarver and have found his conduct unacceptable and in conflict with our values.

"... In light of the findings of the NBA's investigation, we will not renew our sponsorship should Robert Sarver remain involved with the Suns organization, after serving his suspension," Schulman said in his statement.

The company's sponsorship deal with the Suns, which began in 2018 and also includes the WNBA's Phoenix Mercury and Spanish soccer team Real Club Deportiva Mallorca, all owned by Sarver, is set to expire after the 2022-23 season.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34604158/paypal-says-not-continue-sponsorship-phoenix-suns-owner-robert-sarver-returns-ban

Obviously we shouldn't pay attention to this without noting that PayPal, which does not sponsor Minnesota, is not threatening to avoid renewing their sponsorship of the Timberwolves - who they do not sponsor - owing to Anthony Edwards, who does not play for Phoenix, but it's more pressure and proof that the current situation appears to be untenable.
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: Robert Sarver suspended one year, fined $10 million
« Reply #84 on: September 16, 2022, 12:56:26 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 36889
  • Tommy Points: 2969
One sick puppy

Re: Robert Sarver suspended one year, fined $10 million
« Reply #85 on: September 16, 2022, 01:47:46 PM »

Offline celticsclay

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15912
  • Tommy Points: 1394
I guess I am curious, if Robert Sarver came out and issued a very sincere apology, made donations to various organizations helping advance women and disadvantaged groups and made some significant changes on the organization would that make people feel less strongly about demanding he sell? Or is there nothing he could do based on his crimes here.

Re: Robert Sarver suspended one year, fined $10 million
« Reply #86 on: September 16, 2022, 02:06:39 PM »

Offline Celtics2021

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7228
  • Tommy Points: 986
I guess I am curious, if Robert Sarver came out and issued a very sincere apology, made donations to various organizations helping advance women and disadvantaged groups and made some significant changes on the organization would that make people feel less strongly about demanding he sell? Or is there nothing he could do based on his crimes here.

After a year long investigation, it’s too late.  At the outset of it, maybe or maybe not, but we’re past that point, so no need to engage in that hypothetical.  Immediate contrition would have been required to seem sincere.

Re: Robert Sarver suspended one year, fined $10 million
« Reply #87 on: September 16, 2022, 02:14:38 PM »

Offline Donoghus

  • Global Moderator
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31074
  • Tommy Points: 1617
  • What a Pub Should Be
I guess I am curious, if Robert Sarver came out and issued a very sincere apology, made donations to various organizations helping advance women and disadvantaged groups and made some significant changes on the organization would that make people feel less strongly about demanding he sell? Or is there nothing he could do based on his crimes here.

I think most common sense people would see the gesture as empty, self-serving and trying to buy himself out of trouble.


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: Robert Sarver suspended one year, fined $10 million
« Reply #88 on: September 16, 2022, 08:49:24 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33644
  • Tommy Points: 1548
Players Association Executive has publicly asked for a lifetime ban.  Whether the NBA forces him out or not, it doesn't look like Sarver is realistically going to be able to return to the Suns.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Robert Sarver suspended one year, fined $10 million
« Reply #89 on: September 17, 2022, 09:18:59 PM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

  • NCE
  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2116
  • Tommy Points: 94
The only real line to be drawn between Edwards and Sarver is that the number of players who are engage in homophobic behaviour & language is likely much larger than the league would like to admit.

Just like most of the owners are much worse in their behaviour than the league would like to admit.

Otherwise we should leave the Edwards discussion in the Edwards thread, I think.

Everyone is trying to act outraged by Sarver, but there’s no A/V evidence and nobody died by suicide as a result of Sarver’s behavior. Bullying of LGBTQ youth has been a thing forever because of nonsense like Edwards’ comments being tolerated. NBA players need to police Edwards before thinking they have some standing to question the Commissioner’s maximum penalty for Sarver. And anybody who is just so outraged by Sarver’s reported behavior has to look in the mirror and ask them self why they think Sarver should be banned from the NBA for life but Edwards should be given a $50K fine, particularly given the absolute absence of audio/visual evidence against Sarver and how Edwards’ comments do considerable harm to minors (minors were obviously not impacted by Sarver’s behavior).

Let’s help LGBTQ youth by being outraged such that Edwards gets banned for a year, and not be another puppet in someone’s quest to essentially steal the Suns from Sarver, which is probably what most of this is all about. The owners know if Sarver goes down over this without any A/V evidence and no jury finding him guilty of a crime or civil wrongdoing, any one of them could be next.

We literally have a video of an NBA player with anti-gay slurs that was posted online by the player. It’s being emulated by some wayward youth, and affecting LGBTQ youth. The NBAPA should request the NBA suspend Edwards for a year for this. This should be the moment to show this is no longer tolerated. Like Sarver, Edwards can spend the next year thinking about how his behaviors affected others and can come back rehabilitated with a second chance given.

If your argument is that homophobic comments horrible because homophobic bullying can lead to suicide, I get that.

But to then argue that Sarver’s actions never led to suicide is, at best, inconsistent.

If someone associated with employment at the Suns had died by suicide, we definitely would have read about it in the report. Nobody is reading about Sarver’s behavior and thinking, “I’m going to do that too.” Can we definitively say no youth have seen Anthony Edwards’ comments and not modeled it, and not emulated it? Of course not. I bet absolutely anything that Edwards’ comments have influenced some wayward youth and made live hell for some poor LGBTQ youth somewhere.

The NBA for far too long has tolerated homophobia. It needs to stop. The fact Jason Collins is still the only openly gay NBA player during his career after nearly a decade is all we need to know, really. This moment with Edwards is an opportunity for the NBA to really help progress things by sending a clear message to Edwards and everyone that there is zero tolerance for homophobia moving forward.

Quote
Sarver engaged in racist and sexist language, physical sexual harassment, belittling and bullying, etc.  Certainly, that sort of unhealthy, hostile workplace has led to suicides, right?

Absolutely, but not in the specific instance of employment with the Suns and there is no way anybody is emulating Sarver in the wake of this. The report says there was no racial or sexist animus, and obviously nobody has died by suicide as a direct result or it would be plastered everyone.

The fundamental difference is that tolerance of Edwards’ homophobia is having a gross impact on wayward youth. There should be a clear message to the LGBTQ community that  homophobia is no longer tolerated in the NBA. Where’s the calls for Edwards to spend time off like Sarver thinking about what he said/did? It’s been how many days since he posted that disgusting video, and not even a fine/suspension? Yes, this is a clear message from the NBAPA and NBA that they tolerate homophobia and do not really care about negatively impacting LGBTQ youth, many of whom are in hostile environments and vulnerable situations. But, boy, oh, boy, we can go after Sarver to force a sale of a franchise that benefits X, Y, Z? Oh yeah. Business is all that matters, not the influence these players have on the youth of America?

I guarantee this continued toleration of homophobia in the NBA is doing far more harm to more people than what Sarver did to his employees. Sarver deserves a year suspension and $10 million fine. Edwards deserves a comparable penalty. 

The bottom line: Racism, sexism, anti-semitism and homophobia are all wrong, and need to be treated as equally wrong at long last. Enough is enough. If an NBA player displayed sexism, racism or anti-semitism on par with Edwards’ homophobia, there would be far more outrage than what Sarver did. Yet there’s not been a peep from LeBron and other players. Nothing. Dead silence. Because so many think it’s ok. It’s not.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2022, 09:25:41 PM by GreenlyGreeny »