Author Topic: 2022 Draft  (Read 35256 times)

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Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2022, 12:59:10 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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TyTy is a top 10 pick….easy.

Shaedon Sharpe at 7? Interesting.


Sharpe was just my taking a shot based on what I’ve read, he will be interesting to watch.
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Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2022, 12:59:16 AM »

Online tazzmaniac

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If I am picking top 3, Banchero would be my guy.

In a vacuum, or as best fit for Celtics?
I think he will be the best of the top three guys and it's widely believed Banchero, Holmgren and Smith are the top 3 guys.

As for fit on Celtics, what does it matter? That high in the draft you take the best player and make it work.

Everything else being equal, fit matters a great deal. We have two good wings who struggle to lead this team over .500  because, frankly, they are not a great fit with one another. Kobe and Shaq were a great fit.  Pierce, Garnett and Allen were a great fit. Kobe and Gasol were a great fit.  Fit matters.
It doesn't when drafting. Even moreso at the top of the draft. You pick the best player and work it out.

Celtics once had Bird and Maxwell, both essentially PFs, then made a trade for a center, Parish, and used their pick to select McHale, a PF/C. And then they worked things out.

Either way, Banchero is a PF, something this team needs.

teams would or should never  turn down picking the clearly better player for one at a position of need.  And I doubt they ever do (at least not on purpose), as every GM knows he increases his chance of being fired if he keeps missing on talent in the draft.

However, there are endless situations where BPA is not clear and not easily predicted.  So what's left?  Fit. Intangibles. Hunches, etc...

That’s true to a point, but I think, for example, that the Sixers did themselves nor their picks no favors by taking Noel, Embiid, and Okafor in three consecutive drafts.  There was no way those three could ever be compatible, and they got terrible returns on the two they ultimately got rid of.
The general expectation going into the draft was that Okafor would go to the Lakers at #2 and the Sixers would draft Russell at #3.  The Sixers drafted Okafor because Embiid was going to miss his 2nd season after having to have a 2nd foot surgery.  Pretty much everyone on here except myself and I think Moranis were talking about Embiid being a bust at that point. 

Also, Porzingis wouldn't work out for the Sixers because he wanted to go to New York.  So if they drafted him, they would have been drafting a disgruntled project into a tanking situation.  And Porzingis wouldn't have been a good fit with Embiid either.  The remaining players taken in the top 10 were:  Hezonja, Cauley Stein, Mudiay, Stanley Johnson, Kaminsky and Winslow.  In hindsight, the best move the Sixers could have made would have been to make a deal with Ainge who was willing to give up quite a lot to trade up for Winslow. 

Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2022, 01:02:53 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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If I am picking top 3, Banchero would be my guy.

In a vacuum, or as best fit for Celtics?
I think he will be the best of the top three guys and it's widely believed Banchero, Holmgren and Smith are the top 3 guys.

As for fit on Celtics, what does it matter? That high in the draft you take the best player and make it work.

Everything else being equal, fit matters a great deal. We have two good wings who struggle to lead this team over .500  because, frankly, they are not a great fit with one another. Kobe and Shaq were a great fit.  Pierce, Garnett and Allen were a great fit. Kobe and Gasol were a great fit.  Fit matters.
It doesn't when drafting. Even moreso at the top of the draft. You pick the best player and work it out.

Celtics once had Bird and Maxwell, both essentially PFs, then made a trade for a center, Parish, and used their pick to select McHale, a PF/C. And then they worked things out.

Either way, Banchero is a PF, something this team needs.

teams would or should never  turn down picking the clearly better player for one at a position of need.  And I doubt they ever do (at least not on purpose), as every GM knows he increases his chance of being fired if he keeps missing on talent in the draft.

However, there are endless situations where BPA is not clear and not easily predicted.  So what's left?  Fit. Intangibles. Hunches, etc...

That’s true to a point, but I think, for example, that the Sixers did themselves nor their picks no favors by taking Noel, Embiid, and Okafor in three consecutive drafts.  There was no way those three could ever be compatible, and they got terrible returns on the two they ultimately got rid of.

I find the logic behind draft strategy really interesting. To me the most logical way to rank and draft players is tier based BPA. Meaning you break the draft class into tiers and then factor need/roster fit when deciding between players but never move on to a lower tier when a higher tiered player is available. I have brought this up a few times on this board but the year the Cs drafted Rozier reports came out that that he was the last player available to the Celtics in his tier and the team debated jumping tiers for Justin Anderson because a wing was a better roster fit over another PG.

The Hinkie lead 76ers took this strategy to the absolute extreme with the 2013 (Noel),2014(Embiid), and 2015(Okafor) drafts. In the modern NBA true Center is the only position where redundancy is really a waist no matter the talent level. Had they ended up going with 3 guards 2013 (McCollum) 2014(Smart), and 2015(Russell) or 3 wings the fit wouldn't have been great but all three players could share the court together and develop. This is just isn't possible with 3 traditional centers.

The lack of center versatility also brings up another drafting strategy/facotor that I like, positional value. Unless we are talking blue chip, generational, physical outliers, who have all-star ceilings does it ever make sense to draft non combo guards (sub 6'2 pgs) or traditional centers in the top 20? or for that matter the 1st round? Drafting a likely backup PG or Center when they come at so little cost as FAs just doesn't feel like a good use of an asset. As much as I am a fan of Pritchard he was drafted with a likely backup at a position thats easy to replace while Jaden McDaniels went two picks later and as a 6'9 athletic wing is much harder to find in free agency if he hits 3/4 of his ceiling (not to mention our favorite sore spot Desmond Bane). This same draft also saw Utah draft Azubuike as their backup Center another player who's role can be replicated for cheap in free agency.

Regarding Pritchard vs. McDaniels.  McDaniels had some real maturity questions in college per a friend at UW.  As in, maturity even by young college athlete standards.  Not to say there weren’t other players who should have been picked, and I didn’t like Pritchard there at all because yes, backup PGs are plentiful in the NBA, but McDaniels would not be my example I’d run with.  There were non-basketball reasons teams passed on him for awhile.  So far it’s working out for him, and I hope he continues to find success, but he wasn’t the right player for a team coming off a conference finals appearance.

I understand McDaniels had/has his issues and I can’t fault a team
For avoiding maturity or character issues. Point remains that there is value in gambling on wings and not taking the safer bet that comes with drafting point guards.
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Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2022, 01:23:10 AM »

Offline pokeKingCurtis

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If I am picking top 3, Banchero would be my guy.

In a vacuum, or as best fit for Celtics?
I think he will be the best of the top three guys and it's widely believed Banchero, Holmgren and Smith are the top 3 guys.

As for fit on Celtics, what does it matter? That high in the draft you take the best player and make it work.

Everything else being equal, fit matters a great deal. We have two good wings who struggle to lead this team over .500  because, frankly, they are not a great fit with one another. Kobe and Shaq were a great fit.  Pierce, Garnett and Allen were a great fit. Kobe and Gasol were a great fit.  Fit matters.
It doesn't when drafting. Even moreso at the top of the draft. You pick the best player and work it out.

Celtics once had Bird and Maxwell, both essentially PFs, then made a trade for a center, Parish, and used their pick to select McHale, a PF/C. And then they worked things out.

Either way, Banchero is a PF, something this team needs.

teams would or should never  turn down picking the clearly better player for one at a position of need.  And I doubt they ever do (at least not on purpose), as every GM knows he increases his chance of being fired if he keeps missing on talent in the draft.

However, there are endless situations where BPA is not clear and not easily predicted.  So what's left?  Fit. Intangibles. Hunches, etc...

That’s true to a point, but I think, for example, that the Sixers did themselves nor their picks no favors by taking Noel, Embiid, and Okafor in three consecutive drafts.  There was no way those three could ever be compatible, and they got terrible returns on the two they ultimately got rid of.

I find the logic behind draft strategy really interesting. To me the most logical way to rank and draft players is tier based BPA. Meaning you break the draft class into tiers and then factor need/roster fit when deciding between players but never move on to a lower tier when a higher tiered player is available. I have brought this up a few times on this board but the year the Cs drafted Rozier reports came out that that he was the last player available to the Celtics in his tier and the team debated jumping tiers for Justin Anderson because a wing was a better roster fit over another PG.

The Hinkie lead 76ers took this strategy to the absolute extreme with the 2013 (Noel),2014(Embiid), and 2015(Okafor) drafts. In the modern NBA true Center is the only position where redundancy is really a waist no matter the talent level. Had they ended up going with 3 guards 2013 (McCollum) 2014(Smart), and 2015(Russell) or 3 wings the fit wouldn't have been great but all three players could share the court together and develop. This is just isn't possible with 3 traditional centers.

The lack of center versatility also brings up another drafting strategy/facotor that I like, positional value. Unless we are talking blue chip, generational, physical outliers, who have all-star ceilings does it ever make sense to draft non combo guards (sub 6'2 pgs) or traditional centers in the top 20? or for that matter the 1st round? Drafting a likely backup PG or Center when they come at so little cost as FAs just doesn't feel like a good use of an asset. As much as I am a fan of Pritchard he was drafted with a likely backup at a position thats easy to replace while Jaden McDaniels went two picks later and as a 6'9 athletic wing is much harder to find in free agency if he hits 3/4 of his ceiling (not to mention our favorite sore spot Desmond Bane). This same draft also saw Utah draft Azubuike as their backup Center another player who's role can be replicated for cheap in free agency.

Regarding Pritchard vs. McDaniels.  McDaniels had some real maturity questions in college per a friend at UW.  As in, maturity even by young college athlete standards.  Not to say there weren’t other players who should have been picked, and I didn’t like Pritchard there at all because yes, backup PGs are plentiful in the NBA, but McDaniels would not be my example I’d run with.  There were non-basketball reasons teams passed on him for awhile.  So far it’s working out for him, and I hope he continues to find success, but he wasn’t the right player for a team coming off a conference finals appearance.

I understand McDaniels had/has his issues and I can’t fault a team
For avoiding maturity or character issues. Point remains that there is value in gambling on wings and not taking the safer bet that comes with drafting point guards.

Any team with success just drafting a bunch of wings?

I'd argue the Bucks getting Giannis was a huge win (and had Jabari stayed healthy they would have been unstoppable).

Raptos look real good now to me.

Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2022, 08:48:25 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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TyTy Washington greatly outplayed Kennedy Chandler last weekend. I seriously doubt any of the major mocks will rank them in that order.

Ive watch Chandler and he looks like a pro and a player who likely goes in the 1st round, strangely enough I haven't watch Washington yet but it sounds like he is trending up on major boards.

Like I said at the start of my post I like my top 6 and after that just listed players I believe should go in the first round but haven't really given much thought yet to my 7-30 rankings.

Ty Ty moved up to 7 on Bleacher Report. I would not be surprised to see him going top 7 in the draft. He'd be a great fit with us. Sadly we lack the draft capital to get him.

I was hoping to catch Washington in TV yesterday but he was out with an injury. What I’ve read he does sounds like a great fit for Celtics.
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Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2022, 12:35:54 PM »

Offline footey

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TyTy Washington greatly outplayed Kennedy Chandler last weekend. I seriously doubt any of the major mocks will rank them in that order.

Ive watch Chandler and he looks like a pro and a player who likely goes in the 1st round, strangely enough I haven't watch Washington yet but it sounds like he is trending up on major boards.

Like I said at the start of my post I like my top 6 and after that just listed players I believe should go in the first round but haven't really given much thought yet to my 7-30 rankings.

Ty Ty moved up to 7 on Bleacher Report. I would not be surprised to see him going top 7 in the draft. He'd be a great fit with us. Sadly we lack the draft capital to get him.

I was hoping to catch Washington in TV yesterday but he was out with an injury. What I’ve read he does sounds like a great fit for Celtics.

Thanks.  Also take a look at Dyson Daniels. You have him listed as a SG, but he is a PG and at 6'6" seems like he'd fit well into our switching defensive schemes.  Starting to climb leader board as he performs well for the Ignite team.

Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2022, 01:51:09 PM »

Offline wiley

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Has anyone watched Wesley Blake from Notre Dame?  Not me...

listed as PG/SG

edit:  Blake Wesley
« Last Edit: January 30, 2022, 02:14:06 PM by wiley »

Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2022, 03:22:33 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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Has anyone watched Wesley Blake from Notre Dame?  Not me...

listed as PG/SG

edit:  Blake Wesley

He looks like a player, not sure if he projects as a starting PG or more of a Clarkson style scoring combo guard off the bench. Either way looks like a solid NBA player
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Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2022, 03:32:29 PM »

Offline wiley

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Has anyone watched Wesley Blake from Notre Dame?  Not me...

listed as PG/SG

edit:  Blake Wesley

He looks like a player, not sure if he projects as a starting PG or more of a Clarkson style scoring combo guard off the bench. Either way looks like a solid NBA player

draft.net has launched him to #7 (I'm guessing later they'll move him back down to 12-25 or so...)

I like how they rate his leadership, athleticism, and jump shot.  He can surely get stronger...has good size at 6'5", may not add the passing the team needs, though no idea.

Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2022, 10:05:14 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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Before the Celtics trade away their picks I wanted to get out my first full draft board, will tier them later. I went 58 picks because the draft will not be the full 60 this year because of the Bucks and Heat loosing their 2nds.


   Player   POS   HT
         
1   Jabari Smith   PF   6'10''
2   Chet Holmgren   C   7'1''
3   Paolo Banchero   PF   6'10''
4   Johnny Davis   SG   6'5"
5   Jaden Ivey   SG   6'4''
6   A.J. Griffin   SF   6'7''
7   Keegan Murray   SF   6'8"
8   Patrick Baldwin Jr.   PF   6'9''
9   Kendall Brown   SF   6'8''
10   Jalen Duren   C   6'10''
11   Tari Eason   SF   6'8"
12   TyTy Washington   PG   6'3''
13   Jeremy Sochan   SF/PF   6'9"
14   Bennedict Mathurin   SG   6'7"
15   Blake Wesley   PG/SG   6'5"
16   Nikola Jovic   PF   6'10"
17   Harrison Ingram   SF   6'7''
18   Dyson Daniels   SG   6'6"
19   Jaden Hardy   SG   6'4''
20   Max Christie   SG   6'7''
21   Trevor Keels   SG   6'5''
22   MarJon Beauchamp   SF   6'6"
23   Caleb Love   PG   6'4"
24   Mark Williams   C   7'0''
25   Christian Koloko   C   7'1"
26   Isaiah Mobley   PF/C   6'9.5"
27   Ochai Agbaji   SG   6'5"
28   Wendell Moore   SF   6'6"
29   EJ Liddell   PF   6'7"
30   Julian Champagnie   SF   6'7.5"
31   Jabari Walker   PF   6'8"
32   Caleb Houstan   SF   6'8''
33   Jean Montero   PG   6'2"
34   Kennedy Chandler   PG   6'1''
35   J.D. Davison   PG   6'2''
36   Iverson Molinar   PG   6'3"
37   Ismael Kamagate   C   6'11"
38   Oscar Tshiebwe   C   6'9"
39   Hugo Besson    SG   6'3"
40   Jordan Hall    SG/PG   6'7"
41   Gabriele Procida   SG   6'7"
42   Johnny Juzang   SF   6'7"
43   Walker Kessler   C   7'1"
44   Bryce McGowens   SG   6'6''
45   Peyton Watson   SF   6'7''
46   Jaime Jaquez   SF   6'7"
47   Josh Minott   SF   6'8"
48   Trevion Williams   C   6'10"
49   Ryan Rollins    PG   6'4"
50   Kofi Cockburn   C   7'0"
51   Orlando Robinson   C   6'11.25"
52   Michael Foster   PF   6'8''
53   Justin Lewis   PF   6'7"
54   Darius Days   PF   6'7"
55   Christian Braun   SG   6'6
56   Alondes Williams   SG/PG   6'5"
57   Collin Gillespie   PG   6'3
58   Ousmane Dieng   SF   6'9"


A few observations:

I really like this class for rotational bigs, while Holmgren and Duren are both likely gone in the lottery I could see Mark Williams, Koloko Kamagate, Tshiebwe, and/or Kessler all playing rotational roles on good teams. Koloko particularly intrigues me with the fact that he can move so well laterally at 7'1 with a 7'6"WS. I could really see him contributing to an elite defense. Tshiebwe is such an elite rebounder its hard to not seem him carving out a bench role in the NBA. In more niche roles Isaiah Mobley looks like a steal outside the top 20 for a team who values skilled bigs. Trevion Williams is going to be an interesting fit as one if not the best passing big man I can remember watching in recent college bball. 

   


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Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2022, 11:42:05 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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seems like the general vicinity of our first round pick would be rife with SGs with decent size.  we can use shooting so I'm wondering if any of those guys you've listed from 15-22 have some solid shooting skills as well as some ball handling/passing skills to go with it.

Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2022, 03:13:51 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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seems like the general vicinity of our first round pick would be rife with SGs with decent size.  we can use shooting so I'm wondering if any of those guys you've listed from 15-22 have some solid shooting skills as well as some ball handling/passing skills to go with it.

I see a lot of higher ceiling projects at the SG/wing position in that range Agbaji is probably the best option to provide shooting right away.

Based on the early mocks I would be hoping for a big wing mike Sochan, Ingram , or Moore (plays bigger then he is) in the 1st and a  big in the 2nd
« Last Edit: February 08, 2022, 04:00:58 PM by CFAN38 »
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Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2022, 12:11:19 PM »

Offline Smartacus

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Another great game from Jaden Ivey is causing me to double down on my hot take about Chet Holmgren vs Jabari Smith from a few months ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIgMa_ivGmQ

Not only would I take Chet Holmgren #1 and not look back but I would take Jaden Ivey #2 with Smith Jr #3 and Banchero #4. Also Banchero's teammate AJ Griffin might have snuck into #5 depending on if Shaeden Sharp is actually going to be in this draft class.

I believe Ivey has the it factor to be an NBA lead guard in a way that Smith Jr might not possess. The kid has decent size at the position and reminds of Darius Garland in how he moves. I'm just not sold on Smith providing top 3 pick impact at the NBA level.

One final warm take is that my favorite player in the mid 15-25 range is Jabari Smith's teammate Walker Kessler. Maybe that guy is big fish in a small NCAA pond but he put up 16 pts 19 rebs and 7 blocks yesterday. Seems like he moves really well for his size and has great positioning on rebounds. Would be really excited if the Celtics took him for Timelord insurance if our pick ends up around 20.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klvOmyd_x2E&ab_channel=TheScoutingRapport
« Last Edit: February 09, 2022, 12:18:38 PM by Smartacus »

Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2022, 07:24:23 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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BS is proving to be a tough GM for the draft lovers out there,


My hope now is that BS doesn't totally turn his back on adding youth to the roster and is able to double down on the second round a add another pick. As Celtics fans we know that having multiple years of multiple picks can diminish their value in trades and teams like the Thunder, Blazers, Spurs, and this year the T Wolves have more picks then they will likely want to use allowing teams to trade for 2nds at a discount.

Its early but the 2021 2nd round is already showing some solid returns. The players in bold have all played over 1,000 minutes this season

#32 Robinson-Earl 44games 7.1pts 5.8rb

#35 Herb Jones 52games 9.5pts 3.9rb

#38 Dosunmu 51games 7.9pts 2.6rb


#44 Edwards 24games 6.8pts 4.4rb

#51 Boston jr 39games 6.6pts 2.4rb

#55 Aaron Wiggins 31games 7.4pts 3.5rb


For the 2022 draft looking at the Tankathon.com mock these are a few names who jump out at me as potential contributing NBA players in the late 2nd round of their mock.

#60 Oscar Tshiebwe, elite rebounding big who should have enough length and mobility to be a solid backup 5 (#38 on my board)

#56 Jordan Hall, high level passer who at 6'7 215 has the potential to be a really nice backup wing that can move the ball while playing along side elite scorers (#40 on my board)

#54 Trevion Williams, elite passing big man who I can easily see carving out a role as a backup center (#48 on my board)

#51 Julian Champagnie, well rounded big wing who looks like a rotational NBA player (#30 on my board)







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Re: 2022 Draft
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2022, 08:41:04 AM »

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Moussa Diabate is listed at 48 on ESPN and 65 at The Athletic.  If he’s available when the Celtics are on the clock in the 2nd round, he should be the pick.  In the NBA he’s a center, and is center-sized, but Michigan plays him primarily at PF.  In the long run, that may help him develop, as he’s accordingly asked defend more perimeter players and shoot jumpers.  At the same time, it’s hurt his draft stock, as he’s most effective near the basket both offensively and defensively.  He’s not ready to be a year 1 contributor, and wouldn’t be with both Williams, Theis, and maybe Horford ahead of him next year.  But in year 2 I think he’d be ready for the rotation.  He’s got 1st round talent, and if he stays in college another year I think he’ll be selected in the first round.  But if he comes out, as people at Michigan think he will, he would be a terrific pick in the late 2nd.