Remember when Wyc said we're probably making moves

[Truck Lewis]

Rondo is playing a lot better this year than last.  That compensates, IMO, for the loss of Posey.  And, maybe I was sleeping during the playoffs, but PJ Brown was mediocre at best.

except in the biggest game of the playoffs at the biggest moments

no PJ in 08 = no ring

[Jon]

Rondo is playing a lot better this year than last.  That compensates, IMO, for the loss of Posey.  And, maybe I was sleeping during the playoffs, but PJ Brown was mediocre at best.

PJ had some good games and he had one thing we don't, size.  And aside from the fact that he played great in arguably the most important game of the season, the fact that he wasn't extraordinary and was still better than anyone we have on the bench now scares me. 

[CoachBo]

Rondo and Posey bring dramatically different skillsets to the floor. Apples to oranges comparison.

And PJ, while a shell of his former self, brought length, rebounds, a veteran's intelligence - which is why we can't rely on rookies in the playoffs - and clutch play to the floor.

When a 39 year old who's a shell of his former self is better than what we can bring off the bench inside this year, that tells you we need help at the 4 and 5 desperately.

[BballTim]

Rondo and Posey bring dramatically different skillsets to the floor. Apples to oranges comparison.

And PJ, while a shell of his former self, brought length, rebounds, a veteran's intelligence - which is why we can't rely on rookies in the playoffs - and clutch play to the floor.

When a 39 year old who's a shell of his former self is better than what we can bring off the bench inside this year, that tells you we need help at the 4 and 5 desperately.

  Nobody said that Rondo and Posey had the same skillset. And PJ was probable our worst rebounding big last year.

[CoachBo]

Rondo's play, while improved, doesn't compare to Posey's. Period. It's an illegitimate comparison. Rondo's a ballhandler whose job is to defend the other guy's distributor. Posey, on the other hand, is a reserve whose job is defense, length and spot-up shooting.

They do different things, entirely. One does not offset the other - unless you want to try revising history again.

And Brown was an outstanding clutch rebounder during his minutes, along with shooting, length and defense. As stated above, no Brown, no title last year. He was most assuredly not our "worst rebounding big."

TP to Jon for some informed comments on the subject.

[BballTim]

Rondo's play, while improved, doesn't compare to Posey's. Period. It's an illegitimate comparison. Rondo's a ballhandler whose job is to defend the other guy's distributor. Posey, on the other hand, is a reserve whose job is defense, length and spot-up shooting.

They do different things, entirely. One does not offset the other - unless you want to try revising history again.

And Brown was an outstanding clutch rebounder during his minutes, along with shooting, length and defense. As stated above, no Brown, no title last year. He was most assuredly not our "worst rebounding big."

TP to Jon for some informed comments on the subject.

  So after making the obvious comment that nobody said that Rondo and Posey had the same skillset, you explain again that they have different skillsets (unless people try to revise history). Bizarre. The original thought was that if the team gets better at one spot and worse at one spot it can still be as good as it was.

  And have it your way. Perkins, Garnett, Davis and Powe all rebounded better than PJ in the playoffs, but he was most assuredly not our "worst rebounding big." Who did I forget about? Pollard? I think you're trying to revise history.

[TatteredOnMySleeve]

Rondo is playing a lot better this year than last.  That compensates, IMO, for the loss of Posey.  And, maybe I was sleeping during the playoffs, but PJ Brown was mediocre at best.

except in the biggest game of the playoffs at the biggest moments

no PJ in 08 = no ring

Thats not true at all...If we dont get PJ, we still win last year, someone else makes that shot in game 7 and noones whining about the senior citizen not coming back to the celtics

PJ brown has been lousy since he left, he doesnt come to the ring ceromony, he has his ring mailed to him and he wont help us repeat, he just hopped on to get a ring, and wont do anything to defend it...lame
I get that he wants to be a family man and what not, but does it make him a bad father to work a couple more months?

[cordobes]

I think that what CoachBo is saying is fairly easy to understand. Winning basketball teams share some common traits. The fact that Rondo improve doesn't necessarily make up for the lack of Posey or PJ Brown because Rondo doesn't have the same skill-set, hence doesn't provide the team with the same stuff. For example, if it was Rondo walking, PJ Brown staying and we added another quality center, would the improvement on the big men department upset the lack of a quality PG? Of course not. Rondo simply can't play Posey's or PJ's roles, so it's difficult to make the comparison.

Rondo is playing a lot better this year than last.  That compensates, IMO, for the loss of Posey.  And, maybe I was sleeping during the playoffs, but PJ Brown was mediocre at best.

Even if it compensates, other contenders have clearly got better. I'd rather have improvement that just staying as good as last season. Don't you?

PJ Brown was instrumental in last season title and not exactly due to rebounding (although he protects the boards like no other of our current backup bigs). His defence, toughness and heady play is what we're going to miss most. Plus the respect he gets from the refs. How many screens did he set where he just shoved the other guy to the floor and got away with it?

[cordobes]

We have no real assets with which we can entice other teams. All these trade proposals starring Scal's contract and NBDL types isn't going to cut it.

Agreed. From my perspective, that's what make a trade highly improbable: the quality of our bench players conjugated with their contractual situations makes us a weak player on the market. Nobody is going to offer us enough quality for our guys. Any move would improve our overall situation so marginally that it's not worth doing, IMO (because there's always a cost to make mid-season changes to the roster). The only thing that could change that somewhat was if the club was willing to use the $3 million cash plus the 2010 draft pick as trade assets, but I don't think that's the case.

 

[RAcker]

We have no real assets with which we can entice other teams. All these trade proposals starring Scal's contract and NBDL types isn't going to cut it.

Agreed. From my perspective, that's what make a trade highly improbable: the quality of our bench players conjugated with their contractual situations makes us a weak player on the market. Nobody is going to offer us enough quality for our guys. Any move would improve our overall situation so marginally that it's not worth doing, IMO (because there's always a cost to make mid-season changes to the roster). The only thing that could change that somewhat was if the club was willing to use the $3 million cash plus the 2010 draft pick as trade assets, but I don't think that's the case.

 

Not unless we are trading for a ham sandwich (old Scal joke revisited).   

[Bankshot]

I think we have enough to make a small deal.  It's just a matter if other teams want to move those players.

[twistedrico]

I think they could get Joe Smith for TA, POB, and Giddens. TA being the key guy. The salaries fit.

[KCattheStripe]

I think they could get Joe Smith for TA, POB, and Giddens. TA being the key guy. The salaries fit.

Who plays back up 2/3? The only way this makes sense is if you play Eddie at the 2, but then you need a PG. Are we banking on Gabe and Walker to help us get to the promised land? Or are we banking on Cassell still having something left in the tank, in which case we are still hoping that Walker can fill in for Paul. Scal certainly has proved this season, and last, that he is much better suited for being the back up 4 defensively and I would be worried about a 2 unit front court of Baby, Joe Smith and Scal.

[BballTim]

I think that what CoachBo is saying is fairly easy to understand. Winning basketball teams share some common traits. The fact that Rondo improve doesn't necessarily make up for the lack of Posey or PJ Brown because Rondo doesn't have the same skill-set, hence doesn't provide the team with the same stuff. For example, if it was Rondo walking, PJ Brown staying and we added another quality center, would the improvement on the big men department upset the lack of a quality PG? Of course not. Rondo simply can't play Posey's or PJ's roles, so it's difficult to make the comparison.

  What CoachBo is saying is easy to understand, but that doesn't make it correct. Look at the Cavs. They strengthened their backcourt at the expense of a valuable bench big. The net effect was positive. Or simply look at the Celts. They're on a pace similar to last year despite the loss (without replacement) of two key bench players. How is this possible? The big three aren't playing more minutes or putting up better stats. I doubt that people are going to claim that the bench is equal to last year's bench. Why haven't we taken a step back? A good deal of the reason must be, as was stated, Rondo's improvement.

  If you (or CoachBo) disagree with this, why are we still 42-11 after losing 2 key bench players?

[cordobes]

I think that what CoachBo is saying is fairly easy to understand. Winning basketball teams share some common traits. The fact that Rondo improve doesn't necessarily make up for the lack of Posey or PJ Brown because Rondo doesn't have the same skill-set, hence doesn't provide the team with the same stuff. For example, if it was Rondo walking, PJ Brown staying and we added another quality center, would the improvement on the big men department upset the lack of a quality PG? Of course not. Rondo simply can't play Posey's or PJ's roles, so it's difficult to make the comparison.

  What CoachBo is saying is easy to understand, but that doesn't make it correct. Look at the Cavs. They strengthened their backcourt at the expense of a valuable bench big. The net effect was positive. Or simply look at the Celts. They're on a pace similar to last year despite the loss (without replacement) of two key bench players. How is this possible? The big three aren't playing more minutes or putting up better stats. I doubt that people are going to claim that the bench is equal to last year's bench. Why haven't we taken a step back? A good deal of the reason must be, as was stated, Rondo's improvement.

  If you (or CoachBo) disagree with this, why are we still 42-11 after losing 2 key bench players?

But Cleveland still has good options at the 4/5, they replaced Joe Smith not with Mo Williams, as you seem to think, but with better play from Varejão, Z/BW and Hickson.

What's exactly your point? Use a reductio ad absurdum to understand it better: do you believe you could let every center and PF go away if you add enough quality guards? Would a NBA roster with CP, Kobe, Deron Williams, Roy, Manu, Parker, Kevin Martin, Pierce, Wade, Carter, Rondo, Calderon, etc., win a NBA title? Of course not. Or imagine a roster without a single player who can hit 3's consistently (this comparison is better, as the focus should be more on the skill-set and not on the position) - do you think a team like that could win it all? Surely not.