Author Topic: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)  (Read 413330 times)

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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1380 on: April 22, 2019, 07:44:33 PM »

Online PAOBoston

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Am I the only person who thinks the White Walkers win the battle in next weeks episode?

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1381 on: April 22, 2019, 07:50:28 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I can't get over the fact that Jon Snow witnessed this and thinks it's a smart idea to put everyone in the crypts where there are tons of dead people: 



Seems pretty stupid
Here is my problem with the crypts. Aren't most of the dead people down their in singular stone crypts? A stone cover of a crypt has to weight several hundred pounds. Is one dead person strong enough to lift the stone cover aside and get out of the crypt? Or does the magic of raising them from the dead just so happen to raise them out of stone confinement?

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1382 on: April 22, 2019, 07:50:51 PM »

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This upcoming Sunday night will be brutal already. Hopefully the C's don't lose Game 1 that day either  ;) :P

If I had to take a guess, the characters who survive this week will be Jon, Dany, all the Starks, Ser Davos, Sam, Tyrion, the Hound, Jamie and Gendry. Then obviously there will be other survivors (lesser characters). Unfortunately, I think everyone else is basically fair game to get killed. I really hope Thormund and Brienne don't die but I think there's a chance they do.

As many have mentioned though, I think they really foreshadowed the crypt. I don't know what it is, but something big will definitely happen down there. Maybe the dead rise, or the wights find some way in? We'll see. Maybe more secrets will be found there that could help in the war, but probably not for this particular battle at Winterfell (it'll be too late by then). That will be interesting to see in the episode.

Also, someone else mentioned it here, but remember when Cersei gave Bronn a "reward offer" if he killed Jamie and/or Tyrion? Something tells me he'll show up last minute but actually help them in the fight. He may end up saving their lives again (as he did in previous seasons in different situations).

Anyways, I have to admit though, Episode 2 as a whole was FANTASTIC. Perfect way to set the scene before the war begins and give solid farewells to those who will inevitably die this Sunday.

I can't get over the fact that Jon Snow witnessed this and thinks it's a smart idea to put everyone in the crypts where there are tons of dead people: 



Seems pretty stupid
Here is my problem with the crypts. Aren't most of the dead people down their in singular stone crypts? A stone cover of a crypt has to weight several hundred pounds. Is one dead person strong enough to lift the stone cover aside and get out of the crypt? Or does the magic of raising them from the dead just so happen to raise them out of stone confinement?

Are there passageways into the crypt? Because maybe the wights find some way in and we have another scene similar to when the wights attacked Bran and his group in the tunnel.
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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1383 on: April 22, 2019, 07:51:05 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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Am I the only person who thinks the White Walkers win the battle in next weeks episode?

Very good chance they win the battle next week, probably via the crypts.

But they can’t possibly win the war.

My guess is we see plenty of destruction next week and then they regroup (possibly with the help of Cersei’s army - she fooled Jamie and not Tyrion) to finally beat them... and then the showdown between the remaining living for the Throne.
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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1384 on: April 22, 2019, 08:04:50 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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How long have the dead been in the crypts? Is there a time limit on how long somebody can be dead before they’re reanimated?  Or can pure skeletons rise?

The Wiki talks about only the “recent dead” becoming reanimated. 


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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1385 on: April 22, 2019, 08:52:51 PM »

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I can't get over the fact that Jon Snow witnessed this and thinks it's a smart idea to put everyone in the crypts where there are tons of dead people: 



Seems pretty stupid
Here is my problem with the crypts. Aren't most of the dead people down their in singular stone crypts? A stone cover of a crypt has to weight several hundred pounds. Is one dead person strong enough to lift the stone cover aside and get out of the crypt? Or does the magic of raising them from the dead just so happen to raise them out of stone confinement?
I also think there is a time limit to how long someone is dead and can be risen.  I mean as we've seen from the red god followers, the longer someone is dead the harder it is to bring the back.  I can't imagine it doesn't work the same way for the Night King.  I also think there are probably hundreds of thousands dead wildlings throughout the north that haven't been arisen (or at least haven't been shown to have been arisen).  I think something happens in the crypts, but I'd be a little surprised if all of the dead Starks are suddenly arisen.  It wouldn't totally shock me, but isn't something I'm really expecting.
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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1386 on: April 22, 2019, 09:01:33 PM »

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Also, what is Beric Dondarrion’s role in this? Feel like his character always felt out of place but had some role.  I feel like the entire Lord of Light has some role in this. Maybe somehow with the crypts?

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1387 on: April 22, 2019, 09:19:55 PM »

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Also, what is Beric Dondarrion’s role in this? Feel like his character always felt out of place but had some role.  I feel like the entire Lord of Light has some role in this. Maybe somehow with the crypts?
The Lord of the Light is what brought the Prince Who Was Promised prophecy that most believe Jon will fulfill.  The books have a lot about it in them, and it seems pretty clearly to be Jon, especially as more of his birth has been revealed on the show.

Beric and his merry men also brought back the Hound who likely has important things to do in Kings Landing.
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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1388 on: April 23, 2019, 12:44:51 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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How long have the dead been in the crypts? Is there a time limit on how long somebody can be dead before they’re reanimated?  Or can pure skeletons rise?

The Wiki talks about only the “recent dead” becoming reanimated.
But we've seen skeletons come out of the ground already: 





Like... Bran should know everyone in the crypts is about to get got.


Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1389 on: April 23, 2019, 01:02:11 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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She singlehandedly murdered every Khal in Vaes Dothrak, it's how she won them over for good.

Because she is immune to fire and they were not that is not fighting ability though.   Give it up she has some special powers, but directly she is not a good fighter.

There is a lot of lore regarding Winterfell and the North standing.

Quote
According to legend, Winterfell was built by Brandon the Builder, who was aided by giants,[26] after the Long Night ended eight thousand years ago.[12] Maesters believe it was built in pieces over different eras, since the ancient Starks did not level the ground and plan it as a single structure.[12]

Quote
"There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" It is said 5 times in the first two books and never again,


https://www.inverse.com/article/17292-why-there-must-always-be-a-stark-in-winterfell-on-game-of-thrones
« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 01:14:36 AM by Celtics4ever »

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1390 on: April 23, 2019, 04:43:45 AM »

Online tazzmaniac

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I think most, if not all, in the crypts die. I don't see Tyrion being there though. I see him being out of the crypt and surviving.

I think Theon and the Ironborn die protecting Bran, who survives, as for men to survive long term, the history of men and Children, must survive.

Trying to figure out who will die, I am looking at, men winning eventually and Dany and Jon taking the throne together, breaking the wheel of only one ruler. Both will rule.

So I got Samwell Tarley taking over Warden of the South with the Tyrells and Martells gone and Sam as the lone male survivor of the Tarleys.

Jamie becomes Warden of the West as last surviving member of the Lannisters. I think Tyrion dies killing Cersei.

Gendry takes over as head of the Baratheon family with Arya as his wife.

Sansa becomes Warden of the North.

Yara ends up ruling the Iron Isles as Euron's fleet is destroyed by dragons.

Lots of the supporting characters are going to die. Lots.
Basically what I had, except I think Jamie kills Cersei (not Tyrion) and Jon kills Dany to trigger the prophecy and defeat the Night King (I also think she turns on him giving basically no choice and he almost accidentally triggers the prophecy).  All of those survivors that you have, all loyal to Jon right now except Yara (Dany and she would absolutely support Jon if he was left) and Jamie (though he is far more likely to support Jon than Dany and Dany would probably kill him anyway for killer her father something Jon doesn't seem as hung up on). 

I really don't see Dany living.  She is a very strong fighter, but a terrible leader, and I just can't see her sharing the throne with anyone, especially someone with a stronger claim (he is not only a male relative but the child of her older brother, such that even if he was a female he would have had a stronger claim).
If Dany doesn't survive then Jon loses the Dothraki and the Unsullied and maybe even any surviving dragons. Even more so if it is found out he killed Dany. Jon killing Dany could even cause the Dothraki and Unsullied to turn on Jon and his army.

The survivors of the North and the Vale won't be enough to beat Cersei's army. With Dany dying, especially at the hands of Jon, Jon loses tremendous amounts of power.

I think Dany has to survive. Only she controls the power to defeat Cersei's army.
Jon will have Rhaegal and will have defeated the army of the dead.  He will have enough power and influence to defeat hired guns who don't actually have loyalty to anything other than a buck.
So you ignore Tyrion clearly stating that even if they survive the Night King fight that they wouldn't have enough forces to defeat Cersei.  Unless Jon is willing to burn King's landing and its 1 million inhabitants to the ground Rhaegal will be of limited use.  Dragons are not invulnerable and it has already been shown that even one ballista can hurt a dragon.  The Lanister army is still a powerful force that easily defeated the Tyrell army and the 20,000 strong golden company are the best mercenary force in the world.  Cersei also assuredly has more wildfire on hand. 

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1391 on: April 23, 2019, 06:09:23 AM »

Online tazzmaniac

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IMO Arya and Gendry will take the throne.

Jon Snow is idealistic and will have to die (again) to achieve his goals. He is a classic Christ-like figure and does not belong in the world that he will save.

Dany will make some sort of mistake which will be her undoing. She might possibly prove to be unstable like her father. Or her distrust of others will cost her. She represents magic and dragons, and I think she too will not inherit the world she is creating.

Cersei won't win because she is pure evil.

Sansa has a chance. Tyrion has an outside shot. He is the wisest and most stable of all the characters.

But Arya and Gendry I think make the most sense from a writing standpoint. George Martin clearly loves the character, and so does everyone else. She is cunning and violent enough to survive the coming war and yet she has enough of a moral compass that she would make for a fine leader.

And now she might be carrying the former King's grandson.

Dendry has a royal pedigree and as good a claim as anyone to the throne - especially with the backing of an empowered Arya Stark. He also makes a fine counterbalance to Arya's personality. I think the other Starks will die and she will inherit the North. She then uses Dendry's heritage to claim the throne. Their marriage and baby unites the South and North, and everyone lives happily ever after.
Tyrion is not wise.  Cersei played him like a fiddle.  The Masters played him.  A wise man knows when to keep his mouth shut but Tyrion likes to hear the sound of his voice too much. 

Dendry and Arya would make terrible rulers.  They've showed no leadership ability or desire to lead.

Tyrion has regressed badly the past few seasons; bunch of bad decisions, some cynical and perhaps weak (slavers), some too soft-hearted (believing Cersei could sacrifice for the common good).

That said, remember Jorah's speech, about everyone making mistakes? I wonder if he's due for some redemption.
I don't know that he really believed in Cersei so much as he believed in Jamie.  If Jamie wasn't so gung ho, I don't think Tyrion would have believed Cersei. 

And he really didn't mess up all that much with the slavers because at the end of the day, he knew his side had superior forces and that the odds of the slavers ever actually giving up (without being decimated) was almost zero.  And the reality is that the betrayal actually worked out much greater in Dany's favor as it got her the ships she needed to sail to the Seven Kingdoms and it ended the slavers without a long drawn out war where her forces would have been weakened.  Now the show didn't portray Tyrion this way because they wanted to make him seem weaker and it added tension, but that is how I see it i.e. you take the long shot for a peaceful resolution, but know full well it probably won't happen, and prepare for the upcoming battle.
It was Tyrion's plan not Jaime's.  Tyrion convinced Dany that it would work.  Jaime wasn't even there when Tyrion met the 2nd time with Cersei and she finally agreed.  It was a stupid plan.  Cersei had no incentive to follow through on it.  Cersei would have been the greatest idiot in GOT to actually send her troops up north.  She'd have been handing the throne to Dany. 

As for the slavers, Dany was gone with Drogon when Tyrion made the peace overture.  The only troops he had were the Unsullied and the Second Sons who weren't even able to control the uprising in the city.  By asking for a peace meeting, he confirmed their weakness.  When the fleet showed up, Tyrion's forces were outmatched.  It wasn't until Dany showed up with the dragons and the Dothraki that the tables were turned.

Well, ignoring the threat of the undead army is suicidal. I think Jaime and Tyrion underestimated just how insane their sister is. Which is realistic. A sane mind believes that even the craziest and most evil people have some good in them, or at least enough of a sense of self-preservation to put grudges aside in the name of mutual survival. Cersei unfortunately does not possess these qualities - she is almost unbelievably evil. Her siblings tried to get her help and they failed, leaving them in the same situation they would have been in otherwise.

Not extending the olive branch would have been much more foolish. The Dead King is marching regardless. The only other option besides a truce was an immediate war with Cersei which would have left the North undefended and the winner of the war greatly weakened.

It was a no-win situation.
Cersei isn't insane.  She's just resolved that she's in a win or die situation from the beginning.  Her quote from season 1: "When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground."  She was also prophesied to be queen until someone younger and more beautiful casts her down.   That well could be Dany but it certainly is not the Night King. 

Cersei has seen one undead which while scary was hacked to bits and destroyed.  She knows about the power of the dragons which are perfectly suited to deal with the dead.  She knows all the forces Dany has at her disposal.  Qyburn when hiring Bronn mentioned that Cersei had a plan to deal with Dany.  Cersei clearly expects Dany to defeat the dead which is perfectly reasonable and then she'll try to deal with whatever is left of Dany's forces. 

« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 06:26:57 AM by tazzmaniac »

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1392 on: April 23, 2019, 08:44:06 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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She singlehandedly murdered every Khal in Vaes Dothrak, it's how she won them over for good.

Because she is immune to fire and they were not that is not fighting ability though.   Give it up she has some special powers, but directly she is not a good fighter.

I was correcting your obvious error that she had never killed anyone.


RE: cryptchat I can't get over the fact that if they really think the battle is unwinnable, the best-case scenario for those people is to huddle down there for a day or so then get torn to bits by the ravenous corpses of their former friends & family. Good times for the crypt crew.

I wonder if part of why they're down there is that we'll finally get some clue about the symbols the White Walkers like to make out of their corpses. Mostly the spiral pattern. They've been seen since literally scene 1 of the series but never even hinted at an explanation.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1393 on: April 23, 2019, 01:36:37 PM »

Offline Spilling Green Dye

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She singlehandedly murdered every Khal in Vaes Dothrak, it's how she won them over for good.

Because she is immune to fire and they were not that is not fighting ability though.   Give it up she has some special powers, but directly she is not a good fighter.

I was correcting your obvious error that she had never killed anyone.


RE: cryptchat I can't get over the fact that if they really think the battle is unwinnable, the best-case scenario for those people is to huddle down there for a day or so then get torn to bits by the ravenous corpses of their former friends & family. Good times for the crypt crew.

I wonder if part of why they're down there is that we'll finally get some clue about the symbols the White Walkers like to make out of their corpses. Mostly the spiral pattern. They've been seen since literally scene 1 of the series but never even hinted at an explanation.

Though mysterious, there are several hints to why they make this pattern.  First, it's the pattern of stones the children of forest used at the location the white walkers were created.  So making this pattern may be the white walkers echoing the magic used in their creation, or a notice to the children themselves.

Second, it very much resembles the spokes of a wheel, which you'll recall people referencing several times throughout the seasons.  The wheel rolls over rich & poor, and Daenarys promises to break the wheel. 

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1394 on: April 23, 2019, 01:38:22 PM »

Offline Spilling Green Dye

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Also, what is Beric Dondarrion’s role in this? Feel like his character always felt out of place but had some role.  I feel like the entire Lord of Light has some role in this. Maybe somehow with the crypts?
The Lord of the Light is what brought the Prince Who Was Promised prophecy that most believe Jon will fulfill.  The books have a lot about it in them, and it seems pretty clearly to be Jon, especially as more of his birth has been revealed on the show.

Beric and his merry men also brought back the Hound who likely has important things to do in Kings Landing.

Beric didn't bring back the Hound.  The Hound never died, just lingered towards death and was picked up by the builder guy who preached about peace, etc., and was very non-religious.