Revisiting the 2016 Draft

[NKY fan]

Pretty sure if Toronto offered Siakam for Simmons Brett Brown is driving him to the airport. I feel like people are fairly oblivious that Simmons hasn't developed at all on the offensive end. He shows no improvement from foul line, no willingness to take jumpers and is averaging a career high in turnovers. These are things that players work on improve (look at Brown from ft).

That is probably correct, though it doesn't mean Siakam is better or has more value than Simmons.  That would more a reflection of the poor fit that Simmons is with Embiid.

Where would Simmons fit best? I'm not sure who.

Simmons May fit well on the bucks if Giannis is forcing a trade. I’m not sure what else have to be added by the sixers for that trade

[Moranis]

Pretty sure if Toronto offered Siakam for Simmons Brett Brown is driving him to the airport. I feel like people are fairly oblivious that Simmons hasn't developed at all on the offensive end. He shows no improvement from foul line, no willingness to take jumpers and is averaging a career high in turnovers. These are things that players work on improve (look at Brown from ft).

That is probably correct, though it doesn't mean Siakam is better or has more value than Simmons.  That would more a reflection of the poor fit that Simmons is with Embiid.

Where would Simmons fit best? I'm not sure who.

Simmons is a unique talent.  A team probably needs to be designed around him.  Pretty similar to what the Bucks have done around Giannis.  Simmons needs a team that will run and with shooters.  I think you give him that type of environment and the sky is the limit on what he can be.  He is an excellent defender.  He handles well.  He rebounds and passes at an elite level.  He scores highly efficiently in the paint.  Obviously not a shooter, but he doesn't need to be in the right situation.  That just isn't Philly though.  He is not a great mix with Embiid.  They occupy the same space and are both better with shooters around them. 

[celticsclay]

Pretty sure if Toronto offered Siakam for Simmons Brett Brown is driving him to the airport. I feel like people are fairly oblivious that Simmons hasn't developed at all on the offensive end. He shows no improvement from foul line, no willingness to take jumpers and is averaging a career high in turnovers. These are things that players work on improve (look at Brown from ft).

That is probably correct, though it doesn't mean Siakam is better or has more value than Simmons.  That would more a reflection of the poor fit that Simmons is with Embiid.

Where would Simmons fit best? I'm not sure who.

Simmons is a unique talent.  A team probably needs to be designed around him.  Pretty similar to what the Bucks have done around Giannis.  Simmons needs a team that will run and with shooters.  I think you give him that type of environment and the sky is the limit on what he can be.  He is an excellent defender.  He handles well.  He rebounds and passes at an elite level.  He scores highly efficiently in the paint.  Obviously not a shooter, but he doesn't need to be in the right situation.  That just isn't Philly though.  He is not a great mix with Embiid.  They occupy the same space and are both better with shooters around them.

I don’t get how we can just gloss over his non-shooting and refusal to even take long jumpers. Giannis has worked on his shot to the point he can take 5 a game now and hit them at a 34% clip. It has completely changed his game and ceiling as well as the success of the team. If Simmons and Giannis switched places the bucks would go from a 65 win team to a 45 win team instantly. Why build around someone for a 45 win team?

[rondofan1255]

Kevin O'Connor sent out a hilarious tweet the other day, but it does bring up a valid point.

Sad to see Ben Simmons turn into Jahlil Okafor crossed with Michael Carter-Williams in the fourth quarter.

Sixers fans should be furious about his lack of offensive development. Simmons is still a cowardly shooter, a half-court liability and a detriment to Philly's playoff odds.

https://twitter.com/KevinOConnorNBA/status/1208240897512620033

[Moranis]

Pretty sure if Toronto offered Siakam for Simmons Brett Brown is driving him to the airport. I feel like people are fairly oblivious that Simmons hasn't developed at all on the offensive end. He shows no improvement from foul line, no willingness to take jumpers and is averaging a career high in turnovers. These are things that players work on improve (look at Brown from ft).

That is probably correct, though it doesn't mean Siakam is better or has more value than Simmons.  That would more a reflection of the poor fit that Simmons is with Embiid.

Where would Simmons fit best? I'm not sure who.

Simmons is a unique talent.  A team probably needs to be designed around him.  Pretty similar to what the Bucks have done around Giannis.  Simmons needs a team that will run and with shooters.  I think you give him that type of environment and the sky is the limit on what he can be.  He is an excellent defender.  He handles well.  He rebounds and passes at an elite level.  He scores highly efficiently in the paint.  Obviously not a shooter, but he doesn't need to be in the right situation.  That just isn't Philly though.  He is not a great mix with Embiid.  They occupy the same space and are both better with shooters around them.

I don’t get how we can just gloss over his non-shooting and refusal to even take long jumpers. Giannis has worked on his shot to the point he can take 5 a game now and hit them at a 34% clip. It has completely changed his game and ceiling as well as the success of the team. If Simmons and Giannis switched places the bucks would go from a 65 win team to a 45 win team instantly. Why build around someone for a 45 win team?

I never suggested Simmons and Giannis could just switch places.  I said Simmons would need a team built around his strengths to be fully successful in much the same way the Bucks built their team around Giannis (or the Magic built around Shaq and then Dwight or the Cavs around Lebron, or countless other teams in history have built a team around the strengths of their players). 

If Simmons was playing PF, would people have the same concern about his shooting?  I mean that honestly.  If he was playing down low more and taking all of those good shots with his normal TS% in the 58% range, would it be as much a deal.  I don't think so.  And let's be clear the guy that Simmons most resembles in Magic Johnson who didn't even take 45 3's in a season until his 9th year in the league.  I get the game is much more 3 centric these days than the 80's, but how could Magic Johnson become the greatest PG ever with terrible shooting for almost his entire career if the 3 is the be all and end all?

Simmons quite simply is on a team built around player that isn't a good fit for Simmons.  It has seriously hampered his growth and I'm not really sure Brown has down a good job for Simmons in that regard.  I actually think that is what is going to get him fired at the end of the day, because I do think he is a quality coach, he just doesn't know what to do with Simmons.  Now maybe behind the scenes Simmons is the problem, but if that is the case, then Philly should move on from him and the fact that they haven't (and gave him that huge extension), tells me that it probably isn't Simmons, and more just a bad roster fit that they think may work itself out somehow. 

[celticsclay]

Kevin O'Connor sent out a hilarious tweet the other day, but it does bring up a valid point.

Sad to see Ben Simmons turn into Jahlil Okafor crossed with Michael Carter-Williams in the fourth quarter.

Sixers fans should be furious about his lack of offensive development. Simmons is still a cowardly shooter, a half-court liability and a detriment to Philly's playoff odds.

https://twitter.com/KevinOConnorNBA/status/1208240897512620033

Good stuff

[celticsclay]

Pretty sure if Toronto offered Siakam for Simmons Brett Brown is driving him to the airport. I feel like people are fairly oblivious that Simmons hasn't developed at all on the offensive end. He shows no improvement from foul line, no willingness to take jumpers and is averaging a career high in turnovers. These are things that players work on improve (look at Brown from ft).

That is probably correct, though it doesn't mean Siakam is better or has more value than Simmons.  That would more a reflection of the poor fit that Simmons is with Embiid.

Where would Simmons fit best? I'm not sure who.

Simmons is a unique talent.  A team probably needs to be designed around him.  Pretty similar to what the Bucks have done around Giannis.  Simmons needs a team that will run and with shooters.  I think you give him that type of environment and the sky is the limit on what he can be.  He is an excellent defender.  He handles well.  He rebounds and passes at an elite level.  He scores highly efficiently in the paint.  Obviously not a shooter, but he doesn't need to be in the right situation.  That just isn't Philly though.  He is not a great mix with Embiid.  They occupy the same space and are both better with shooters around them.

I don’t get how we can just gloss over his non-shooting and refusal to even take long jumpers. Giannis has worked on his shot to the point he can take 5 a game now and hit them at a 34% clip. It has completely changed his game and ceiling as well as the success of the team. If Simmons and Giannis switched places the bucks would go from a 65 win team to a 45 win team instantly. Why build around someone for a 45 win team?

I never suggested Simmons and Giannis could just switch places.  I said Simmons would need a team built around his strengths to be fully successful in much the same way the Bucks built their team around Giannis (or the Magic built around Shaq and then Dwight or the Cavs around Lebron, or countless other teams in history have built a team around the strengths of their players). 

If Simmons was playing PF, would people have the same concern about his shooting?  I mean that honestly.  If he was playing down low more and taking all of those good shots with his normal TS% in the 58% range, would it be as much a deal.  I don't think so.  And let's be clear the guy that Simmons most resembles in Magic Johnson who didn't even take 45 3's in a season until his 9th year in the league.  I get the game is much more 3 centric these days than the 80's, but how could Magic Johnson become the greatest PG ever with terrible shooting for almost his entire career if the 3 is the be all and end all?

Simmons quite simply is on a team built around player that isn't a good fit for Simmons.  It has seriously hampered his growth and I'm not really sure Brown has down a good job for Simmons in that regard.  I actually think that is what is going to get him fired at the end of the day, because I do think he is a quality coach, he just doesn't know what to do with Simmons.  Now maybe behind the scenes Simmons is the problem, but if that is the case, then Philly should move on from him and the fact that they haven't (and gave him that huge extension), tells me that it probably isn't Simmons, and more just a bad roster fit that they think may work itself out somehow.

I think you kind of answered your own question. If Ben Simmons played in the eighties and early 90’s when magic did his shooting wouldn’t be the issue it is. Unfortunately for him, he plays now when even lumbering bigs like brook Lopez and baynes can stretch a defense. It is also quite frankly bizarre he has been unable to even make a modest improvement in his range in 3 years in the league. This suggests to me he is arrogant or lazy, perhaps both.

[smokeablount]

Delighted with jaylen.. 2 way player on a good team plays as a third option behind Walker Tatum and maybe Hayward and even so he becomes better and better.. Murray has a licence to shoot at will playing for a weak team.. Ingram and hield too..Simmons has no shooting and is not Giannis.. and does not play hard... siakam looks good but  is he a star? Good players but who is drastically improving every year..? I 'll keep him

Denver is a weak team?

Read my mind. They can’t accurately be labeled with Sac & especially NOP.

[smokeablount]

Where would Simmons fit best?

On a lottery team.

[wiley]

Delighted with jaylen.. 2 way player on a good team plays as a third option behind Walker Tatum and maybe Hayward and even so he becomes better and better.. Murray has a licence to shoot at will playing for a weak team.. Ingram and hield too..Simmons has no shooting and is not Giannis.. and does not play hard... siakam looks good but  is he a star? Good players but who is drastically improving every year..? I 'll keep him

Denver is a weak team?

Read my mind. They can’t accurately be labeled with Sac & especially NOP.

To answer someone's above question...Wouldn't Simmons fit well in Denver starting at PF...trade with Nuggets looks impossible.though.

[nickagneta]

Pretty sure if Toronto offered Siakam for Simmons Brett Brown is driving him to the airport. I feel like people are fairly oblivious that Simmons hasn't developed at all on the offensive end. He shows no improvement from foul line, no willingness to take jumpers and is averaging a career high in turnovers. These are things that players work on improve (look at Brown from ft).

That is probably correct, though it doesn't mean Siakam is better or has more value than Simmons.  That would more a reflection of the poor fit that Simmons is with Embiid.

Where would Simmons fit best? I'm not sure who.

Simmons is a unique talent.  A team probably needs to be designed around him.  Pretty similar to what the Bucks have done around Giannis.  Simmons needs a team that will run and with shooters.  I think you give him that type of environment and the sky is the limit on what he can be.  He is an excellent defender.  He handles well.  He rebounds and passes at an elite level.  He scores highly efficiently in the paint.  Obviously not a shooter, but he doesn't need to be in the right situation.  That just isn't Philly though.  He is not a great mix with Embiid.  They occupy the same space and are both better with shooters around them.

I don’t get how we can just gloss over his non-shooting and refusal to even take long jumpers. Giannis has worked on his shot to the point he can take 5 a game now and hit them at a 34% clip. It has completely changed his game and ceiling as well as the success of the team. If Simmons and Giannis switched places the bucks would go from a 65 win team to a 45 win team instantly. Why build around someone for a 45 win team?

I never suggested Simmons and Giannis could just switch places.  I said Simmons would need a team built around his strengths to be fully successful in much the same way the Bucks built their team around Giannis (or the Magic built around Shaq and then Dwight or the Cavs around Lebron, or countless other teams in history have built a team around the strengths of their players). 

If Simmons was playing PF, would people have the same concern about his shooting?  I mean that honestly.  If he was playing down low more and taking all of those good shots with his normal TS% in the 58% range, would it be as much a deal.  I don't think so.  And let's be clear the guy that Simmons most resembles in Magic Johnson who didn't even take 45 3's in a season until his 9th year in the league.  I get the game is much more 3 centric these days than the 80's, but how could Magic Johnson become the greatest PG ever with terrible shooting for almost his entire career if the 3 is the be all and end all?

Simmons quite simply is on a team built around player that isn't a good fit for Simmons.  It has seriously hampered his growth and I'm not really sure Brown has down a good job for Simmons in that regard.  I actually think that is what is going to get him fired at the end of the day, because I do think he is a quality coach, he just doesn't know what to do with Simmons.  Now maybe behind the scenes Simmons is the problem, but if that is the case, then Philly should move on from him and the fact that they haven't (and gave him that huge extension), tells me that it probably isn't Simmons, and more just a bad roster fit that they think may work itself out somehow.

I think you kind of answered your own question. If Ben Simmons played in the eighties and early 90’s when magic did his shooting wouldn’t be the issue it is. Unfortunately for him, he plays now when even lumbering bigs like brook Lopez and baynes can stretch a defense. It is also quite frankly bizarre he has been unable to even make a modest improvement in his range in 3 years in the league. This suggests to me he is arrogant or lazy, perhaps both.

Here is the thing about Moranis' suggestion. As much as it might be best for Simmons to have a team built around him to bring out the best in him, much like Milwaukee did with Giannis, that's probably not best for any team that has Simmons on it. You are limiting the top end potential of that team because, to put it nicely, Simmons is no Giannis.

Simmons upside best just isn't good enough to warrant building a team around him. Way too many shortcomings, and quite frankly, I think Moranis is painting some of his other skills in a very favorable light.

I mean, you would never even suggest to build a team around a young Rondo and I see Simmons as being very similar type player....only 4-5 inches taller.

[Who]

A team built to suit Ben Simmons should be a team where Simmons is the sole paint player on the floor. That means he needs to play next to a stretch five (like a Brook Lopez). It should also be on a team without a ball dominant perimeter player (such as Harden). An offense more similar to Boston or Golden State. More ball movement and multiple threats. And the 4 other players on the floor with Simmons should all be 3 point shooters.

The more time Simmons can play in the paint the more effective he can be offensively. The less destructive his lack of a jump-shot can be on his teams.

I could see Simmons playing as a PG and initiating the offense before handing it off to the wing players or, more likely, as a playmaking PF. A lot of elbow touches, dribble hand offs, some PnRs, post up opportunities.

In such a scenario, Simmons could be quite effective offensively which in addition to his defensive value & possession creation would make him a very valuable individual player. Simmons could be the best player on such a team (contending team) or more likely the second best player.

[Fierce1]

A team built to suit Ben Simmons should be a team where Simmons is the sole paint player on the floor. That means he needs to play next to a stretch five (like a Brook Lopez). It should also be on a team without a ball dominant perimeter player (such as Harden). An offense more similar to Boston or Golden State. More ball movement and multiple threats. And the 4 other players on the floor with Simmons should all be 3 point shooters.

The more time Simmons can play in the paint the more effective he can be offensively. The less destructive his lack of a jump-shot can be on his teams.

I could see Simmons playing as a PG and initiating the offense before handing it off to the wing players or, more likely, as a playmaking PF. A lot of elbow touches, dribble hand offs, some PnRs, post up opportunities.

In such a scenario, Simmons could be quite effective offensively which in addition to his defensive value & possession creation would make him a very valuable individual player. Simmons could be the best player on such a team (contending team) or more likely the second best player.

I totally agree with your assessment.

Ben Simmons was one of the elite PFs in college.

The Sixers are trying to convert him into a PG and the result is he's looking like a tall Rondo.

Ben Simmons is better suited playing PF in the NBA.

[chicagoceltic]

No transcendental players that could be once in a generation, but in what was thought ahead of time to be a bad draft, there are a lot of future All-Stars and some future All-NBA players in this draft.

I think Danny made the right pick at #3.

Definitely too early to say that.  Both Siakam and Ingram are probably borderline at the moment.

I'm probably the biggest Brown fan there is, but even I can admit he's probably the worst of the 8 players listed by the OP.

I'm not sure you can be the first and believe the second.

[chicagoceltic]

Pretty sure if Toronto offered Siakam for Simmons Brett Brown is driving him to the airport. I feel like people are fairly oblivious that Simmons hasn't developed at all on the offensive end. He shows no improvement from foul line, no willingness to take jumpers and is averaging a career high in turnovers. These are things that players work on improve (look at Brown from ft).

That is probably correct, though it doesn't mean Siakam is better or has more value than Simmons.  That would more a reflection of the poor fit that Simmons is with Embiid.

Where would Simmons fit best? I'm not sure who.

Simmons is a unique talent.  A team probably needs to be designed around him.  Pretty similar to what the Bucks have done around Giannis.  Simmons needs a team that will run and with shooters.  I think you give him that type of environment and the sky is the limit on what he can be.  He is an excellent defender.  He handles well.  He rebounds and passes at an elite level.  He scores highly efficiently in the paint.  Obviously not a shooter, but he doesn't need to be in the right situation.  That just isn't Philly though.  He is not a great mix with Embiid.  They occupy the same space and are both better with shooters around them.

I don’t get how we can just gloss over his non-shooting and refusal to even take long jumpers. Giannis has worked on his shot to the point he can take 5 a game now and hit them at a 34% clip. It has completely changed his game and ceiling as well as the success of the team. If Simmons and Giannis switched places the bucks would go from a 65 win team to a 45 win team instantly. Why build around someone for a 45 win team?

I never suggested Simmons and Giannis could just switch places.  I said Simmons would need a team built around his strengths to be fully successful in much the same way the Bucks built their team around Giannis (or the Magic built around Shaq and then Dwight or the Cavs around Lebron, or countless other teams in history have built a team around the strengths of their players). 

If Simmons was playing PF, would people have the same concern about his shooting? I mean that honestly.  If he was playing down low more and taking all of those good shots with his normal TS% in the 58% range, would it be as much a deal.  I don't think so.  And let's be clear the guy that Simmons most resembles in Magic Johnson who didn't even take 45 3's in a season until his 9th year in the league.  I get the game is much more 3 centric these days than the 80's, but how could Magic Johnson become the greatest PG ever with terrible shooting for almost his entire career if the 3 is the be all and end all?

Simmons quite simply is on a team built around player that isn't a good fit for Simmons.  It has seriously hampered his growth and I'm not really sure Brown has down a good job for Simmons in that regard.  I actually think that is what is going to get him fired at the end of the day, because I do think he is a quality coach, he just doesn't know what to do with Simmons.  Now maybe behind the scenes Simmons is the problem, but if that is the case, then Philly should move on from him and the fact that they haven't (and gave him that huge extension), tells me that it probably isn't Simmons, and more just a bad roster fit that they think may work itself out somehow.

You would not have as much of a concern about his shooting but if he was a PF you would be taking away from him what he is best at on the court.