2016 CB Draft: Discussion thread

[Rondo2287]

Any feedback on My Squad other than its too young.

 My big three is Lowry, Wade, Okafor lol.

 Okafor
 Randle
 Turner
 Wade
 Lowry

 Thon Maker
 Sabonis
 J. Grant
 Valentine

I would like the overall tone of the team much more if you moved wade for a promising young two guard.  A beal caliber player.  You would then have a core that could really grow together the next couple of years and be a solid TOTF

[KGs Knee]

Melo Aldridge and Holiday is probably the best three man core in this game so far

Give this man the "Modesty" award, folks! 

But being serious for a moment, the stats say otherwise.

Just looking at my own top 3 players (Horford/Conley/Parsons) they rank better across most all of the advanced stats available  (VORP/WS/BPM/PIE/PER/WS48).

Take this with a grain of salt, but the formula I came up with prior to the draft gives the Horford/Conley/Parsons trio a 'score' of 16.21, while the trio of Aldridge/Anthony/Holiday has a 'score' of 16.18.  Your trio missed 35 games, mine missed 47 (average of 4 per player).

I'd be interested to hear your reasoning why you think the numbers are wrong.  I'm not saying anything definitive here, just curious as to your thoughts on this.

[Rondo2287]

Melo Aldridge and Holiday is probably the best three man core in this game so far

Give this man the "Modesty" award, folks! 

But being serious for a moment, the stats say otherwise.

Just looking at my own top 3 players (Horford/Conley/Parsons) they rank better across most all of the advanced stats available  (VORP/WS/BPM/PIE/PER/WS48).

Take this with a grain of salt, but the formula I came up with prior to the draft gives the Horford/Conley/Parsons trio a 'score' of 16.21, while the trio of Aldridge/Anthony/Holiday has a 'score' of 16.18.  Your trio missed 35 games, mine missed 47 (average of 4 per player).

I'd be interested to hear your reasoning why you think the numbers are wrong.  I'm not saying anything definitive here, just curious as to your thoughts on this.

I would say the formula you came up with is incorrect.  I would say ask any executive in the league would that rather have Aldridge or Horford they would all say Aldridge.  Ask any celtics fan they would say Aldridge. 

Ask the same group Carmelo or Parsons and same thing.  Is parsons on Team USA?

Conley and Holiday is probably a wash

[KGs Knee]

Melo Aldridge and Holiday is probably the best three man core in this game so far

Give this man the "Modesty" award, folks! 

But being serious for a moment, the stats say otherwise.

Just looking at my own top 3 players (Horford/Conley/Parsons) they rank better across most all of the advanced stats available  (VORP/WS/BPM/PIE/PER/WS48).

Take this with a grain of salt, but the formula I came up with prior to the draft gives the Horford/Conley/Parsons trio a 'score' of 16.21, while the trio of Aldridge/Anthony/Holiday has a 'score' of 16.18.  Your trio missed 35 games, mine missed 47 (average of 4 per player).

I'd be interested to hear your reasoning why you think the numbers are wrong.  I'm not saying anything definitive here, just curious as to your thoughts on this.

I would say the formula you came up with is incorrect.  I would say ask any executive in the league would that rather have Aldridge or Horford they would all say Aldridge.  Ask any celtics fan they would say Aldridge. 

Ask the same group Carmelo or Parsons and same thing.  Is parsons on Team USA?

Conley and Holiday is probably a wash

So, basically it's all subjective.  Those stats don't matter.  Fair enough.

I'll agree about Carmelo and Parsons.  Carmelo can take over a game on offense, Parsons can't.  FWIW, Parson is more efficient.

I'm surprised as many Celtics fans are down on Horford.  The guy is an advanced stats stud.  Tops in the group above, by a wide margin actually.  It doesn't matter how you manipulate those stats, the outcome is the same.  Made it farther in the playoffs than LMA, and as the top player on the team.  I really like both players, though.

Conley and Holiday were separated by 0.01 total score, so yeah pretty close.  Conley played 9 less games, so his scores in VORP and WS took a slight hit. But, to turn it around for a moment, subjectively, nobody is taking Holiday ahead of Conley.

[Rondo2287]

Melo Aldridge and Holiday is probably the best three man core in this game so far

Give this man the "Modesty" award, folks! 

But being serious for a moment, the stats say otherwise.

Just looking at my own top 3 players (Horford/Conley/Parsons) they rank better across most all of the advanced stats available  (VORP/WS/BPM/PIE/PER/WS48).

Take this with a grain of salt, but the formula I came up with prior to the draft gives the Horford/Conley/Parsons trio a 'score' of 16.21, while the trio of Aldridge/Anthony/Holiday has a 'score' of 16.18.  Your trio missed 35 games, mine missed 47 (average of 4 per player).

I'd be interested to hear your reasoning why you think the numbers are wrong.  I'm not saying anything definitive here, just curious as to your thoughts on this.

I would say the formula you came up with is incorrect.  I would say ask any executive in the league would that rather have Aldridge or Horford they would all say Aldridge.  Ask any celtics fan they would say Aldridge. 

Ask the same group Carmelo or Parsons and same thing.  Is parsons on Team USA?

Conley and Holiday is probably a wash

So, basically it's all subjective.  Those stats don't matter.  Fair enough.

I'll agree about Carmelo and Parsons.  Carmelo can take over a game on offense, Parsons can't.  FWIW, Parson is more efficient.

I'm surprised as many Celtics fans are down on Horford.  The guy is an advanced stats stud.  Tops in the group above, by a wide margin actually.  It doesn't matter how you manipulate those stats, the outcome is the same.  Made it farther in the playoffs than LMA, and as the top player on the team.  I really like both players, though.

Conley and Holiday were separated by 0.01 total score, so yeah pretty close.  Conley played 9 less games, so his scores in VORP and WS took a slight hit. But, to turn it around for a moment, subjectively, nobody is taking Holiday ahead of Conley.

Horford stunk in the playoffs 12.5ppg 8.5 rpg on 43% shooting against the celtics who have no interior defenders and the cavs with TT

Aldridge on the other hand averaged 21.9 points per game on 8.3 rpg, and 52% shooting

[Evantime34]

Melo Aldridge and Holiday is probably the best three man core in this game so far

Give this man the "Modesty" award, folks! 

But being serious for a moment, the stats say otherwise.

Just looking at my own top 3 players (Horford/Conley/Parsons) they rank better across most all of the advanced stats available  (VORP/WS/BPM/PIE/PER/WS48).

Take this with a grain of salt, but the formula I came up with prior to the draft gives the Horford/Conley/Parsons trio a 'score' of 16.21, while the trio of Aldridge/Anthony/Holiday has a 'score' of 16.18.  Your trio missed 35 games, mine missed 47 (average of 4 per player).

I'd be interested to hear your reasoning why you think the numbers are wrong.  I'm not saying anything definitive here, just curious as to your thoughts on this.

I would say the formula you came up with is incorrect.  I would say ask any executive in the league would that rather have Aldridge or Horford they would all say Aldridge.  Ask any celtics fan they would say Aldridge. 

Ask the same group Carmelo or Parsons and same thing.  Is parsons on Team USA?

Conley and Holiday is probably a wash

Agree on Melo on Aldridge being clearly better than Parsons and Horford. However, Conley and Holliday isn't close to a wash, mostly because Holiday can't make it through a season without getting hurt. Conley is much better.

[Rondo2287]

Melo Aldridge and Holiday is probably the best three man core in this game so far

Give this man the "Modesty" award, folks! 

But being serious for a moment, the stats say otherwise.

Just looking at my own top 3 players (Horford/Conley/Parsons) they rank better across most all of the advanced stats available  (VORP/WS/BPM/PIE/PER/WS48).

Take this with a grain of salt, but the formula I came up with prior to the draft gives the Horford/Conley/Parsons trio a 'score' of 16.21, while the trio of Aldridge/Anthony/Holiday has a 'score' of 16.18.  Your trio missed 35 games, mine missed 47 (average of 4 per player).

I'd be interested to hear your reasoning why you think the numbers are wrong.  I'm not saying anything definitive here, just curious as to your thoughts on this.

I would say the formula you came up with is incorrect.  I would say ask any executive in the league would that rather have Aldridge or Horford they would all say Aldridge.  Ask any celtics fan they would say Aldridge. 

Ask the same group Carmelo or Parsons and same thing.  Is parsons on Team USA?

Conley and Holiday is probably a wash

Agree on Melo on Aldridge being clearly better than Parsons and Horford. However, Conley and Holliday isn't close to a wash, mostly because Holiday can't make it through a season without getting hurt. Conley is much better.

2016 GP
Conley 56
Holiday 65

Conley: 15.3 PPG, 2.9 rpg, 6.1 apg, 42% FG, 36% 3p

Jrue:  16.8 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 6.0 apg, 44% fg, 33% 3p

[Evantime34]

I really like my team. It's not going to be a team that gets favorable voting after this is all over, however when we look back at this league a year from now the quality of my team will be obvious.

D'Angelo Russell
Klay Thompson/Roberson
Aaron Gordon/Oubre
Jabari Parker/Saric
Joakim Noah/WCS

This team has quality shooting, a lot of athleticism and plus length at every position. Russell is my smallest player at 6'5. Memphis' length is really going to bother people.

I predict that by this time next year D'Angelo, Gordon and Parker will all be the best players on their respective teams, while Saric, Roberson and WCS should all be starting for their NBA teams.

[KGs Knee]

Horford stunk in the playoffs 12.5ppg 8.5 rpg on 43% shooting against the celtics who have no interior defenders and the cavs with TT

Aldridge on the other hand averaged 21.9 points per game on 8.3 rpg, and 52% shooting

It wasn't Al's best playoff run, that's for certain.

But really, looking at their career number, the only thing Aldridge does considerable better is score more points.  They're either even, or Horford has the better numbers otherwise.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&y1=2016&p1=horfoal01&y2=2016&p2=aldrila01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

So really, the crux of it is LMA scores more?  Just find it interesting.  Not even really debating it, per se.

[Rondo2287]

Horford stunk in the playoffs 12.5ppg 8.5 rpg on 43% shooting against the celtics who have no interior defenders and the cavs with TT

Aldridge on the other hand averaged 21.9 points per game on 8.3 rpg, and 52% shooting

It wasn't Al's best playoff run, that's for certain.

But really, looking at their career number, the only thing Aldridge does considerable better is score more points.  They're either even, or Horford has the better numbers otherwise.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&y1=2016&p1=horfoal01&y2=2016&p2=aldrila01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

So really, the crux of it is LMA scores more?  Just find it interesting.  Not even really debating it, per se.

Seemingly against decent competition Horford turtled while LMA performed well

[KGs Knee]

I really like my team. It's not going to be a team that gets favorable voting after this is all over, however when we look back at this league a year from now the quality of my team will be obvious.

D'Angelo Russell
Klay Thompson/Roberson
Aaron Gordon/Oubre
Jabari Parker/Saric
Joakim Noah/WCS

This team has quality shooting, a lot of athleticism and plus length at every position. Russell is my smallest player at 6'5. Memphis' length is really going to bother people.

I predict that by this time next year D'Angelo, Gordon and Parker will all be the best players on their respective teams, while Saric, Roberson and WCS should all be starting for their NBA teams.

Yeah, in couple years, this could very likely be an elite squad.  A "TOTF" with a very near future, so to speak.

[Rondo2287]

I really like my team. It's not going to be a team that gets favorable voting after this is all over, however when we look back at this league a year from now the quality of my team will be obvious.

D'Angelo Russell
Klay Thompson/Roberson
Aaron Gordon/Oubre
Jabari Parker/Saric
Joakim Noah/WCS

This team has quality shooting, a lot of athleticism and plus length at every position. Russell is my smallest player at 6'5. Memphis' length is really going to bother people.

I predict that by this time next year D'Angelo, Gordon and Parker will all be the best players on their respective teams, while Saric, Roberson and WCS should all be starting for their NBA teams.

I like the Noah WCS pairing alot, I think WCS can learn alot from Noah

[KGs Knee]

Horford stunk in the playoffs 12.5ppg 8.5 rpg on 43% shooting against the celtics who have no interior defenders and the cavs with TT

Aldridge on the other hand averaged 21.9 points per game on 8.3 rpg, and 52% shooting

It wasn't Al's best playoff run, that's for certain.

But really, looking at their career number, the only thing Aldridge does considerable better is score more points.  They're either even, or Horford has the better numbers otherwise.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&y1=2016&p1=horfoal01&y2=2016&p2=aldrila01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

So really, the crux of it is LMA scores more?  Just find it interesting.  Not even really debating it, per se.

Seemingly against decent competition Horford turtled while LMA performed well

So we don't expect Horford to rebound and have a better playoff run this year?  I sure hope he does.  Just my own opinion here, but I think his addition pushes the C's to 55 wins this year, 7 better than last year.

I mean, he's never been the volume scorer LMA is, but he makes up for it in plenty of other areas.

[Evantime34]

Horford stunk in the playoffs 12.5ppg 8.5 rpg on 43% shooting against the celtics who have no interior defenders and the cavs with TT

Aldridge on the other hand averaged 21.9 points per game on 8.3 rpg, and 52% shooting

It wasn't Al's best playoff run, that's for certain.

But really, looking at their career number, the only thing Aldridge does considerable better is score more points.  They're either even, or Horford has the better numbers otherwise.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&y1=2016&p1=horfoal01&y2=2016&p2=aldrila01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

So really, the crux of it is LMA scores more?  Just find it interesting.  Not even really debating it, per se.

Seemingly against decent competition Horford turtled while LMA performed well

So we don't expect Horford to rebound and have a better playoff run this year?  I sure hope he does.  Just my own opinion here, but I think his addition pushes the C's to 55 wins this year, 7 better than last year.

I mean, he's never been the volume scorer LMA is, but he makes up for it in plenty of other areas.

Even though Horford's individual numbers weren't great last year, I thought that his defense was a big reason we couldn't score at all against Atlanta (and why they had one of the best defenses in the league last regular season).

LMA is a better scorer and rebounder than Horford, but I think Horford does everything else better. LMA is suited to be a franchise scorer, while Horford is suited to be the guy next to the franchise scorer that does everything else to make sure his team wins.

[snively]

Horford stunk in the playoffs 12.5ppg 8.5 rpg on 43% shooting against the celtics who have no interior defenders and the cavs with TT

Aldridge on the other hand averaged 21.9 points per game on 8.3 rpg, and 52% shooting

It wasn't Al's best playoff run, that's for certain.

But really, looking at their career number, the only thing Aldridge does considerable better is score more points.  They're either even, or Horford has the better numbers otherwise.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&y1=2016&p1=horfoal01&y2=2016&p2=aldrila01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

So really, the crux of it is LMA scores more?  Just find it interesting.  Not even really debating it, per se.

Seemingly against decent competition Horford turtled while LMA performed well

So we don't expect Horford to rebound and have a better playoff run this year?  I sure hope he does.  Just my own opinion here, but I think his addition pushes the C's to 55 wins this year, 7 better than last year.

I mean, he's never been the volume scorer LMA is, but he makes up for it in plenty of other areas.

He is a better and more committed defender than LMA which counts for a lot, but his inability to scale up his offensive game up beyond PNR finishes and spot-up Js (a la old KG) is a definite problem if you don't have a premiere scorer on your team. His last 2 playoff showings against Tristan Thompson on the glass also undermined some of his defensive impact.

Both guys are similar enough in overall talent to be comparable, but have some limitations that need to be accounted for.

I think a swap would actually serve you both pretty well. The Hornets are short on offensive horsepower at the top while the Lakers have a bit of surplus and majorly lack on D.