Author Topic: 2020 Historical Draft: WCF...#1 Utah vs #2 Denver  (Read 16235 times)

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Re: 2020 Historical Draft: WCF...#1 Utah vs #2 Denver
« Reply #60 on: April 08, 2020, 02:56:13 PM »

Offline action781

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---DENVER NUGGETS STARTING LINEUP---
PG: Gary Payton
SG: Kyrie Irving
SF: Rip Hamilton
PF: Carmelo Anthony
C: Tim Duncan

---BENCH LINEUP---
PG: Steve Francis
SG: Raja Bell
SF: Glenn Robinson
PF: Draymond Green
C: DeMarcus Cousins

---DEEP BENCH---
SG: Danny Green
SF: Robert Covington
PF: Anthony Mason
C: Zydrunas Ilgauskas

Strategy will be in my next post.
Ever thought of playing Green instead of Raja as your backup SG? I like Green's versatility on defence more. Would also try looking at playing Covington ahead of Robinson - I think Big Dog's lack of lateral mobility would be costly against a team that has wings who are great at moving off the ball.
I wasn't sure how Raja Bell compared to Danny Green. Bell was definitely before my time, and I think defense in particular relies much more on the eye test than offense does.

RoCo might be really useful in this series, so I may move him into the bench. It's a tough decision for sure.
From my impression of watching some SSOL Suns games, I think Raja was better as a man to man defender (whether on or off the ball), but Green can cover more positions and provide better help defence. But yeah he was ahead of my time as well and I didn't research him heavily (I was focused on analysing Nash/Amare/Marion when watching those games), so I'd appreciate guys who've watched extensive tape of him to give their opinion.

Raja Bell was a really good spot up 3 point shooter (fit so well next to Nash) and one of about 3 guys in the NBA in the mid 2000s along with Bowen and Batter who were reputable Kobe defenders.  I'm probably missing some?  Raja and Bowen were like the guys that made 3&D become a thing.
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Re: 2020 Historical Draft: WCF...#1 Utah vs #2 Denver
« Reply #61 on: April 08, 2020, 03:48:07 PM »

Offline Moranis

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---DENVER NUGGETS STARTING LINEUP---
PG: Gary Payton
SG: Kyrie Irving
SF: Rip Hamilton
PF: Carmelo Anthony
C: Tim Duncan

---BENCH LINEUP---
PG: Steve Francis
SG: Raja Bell
SF: Glenn Robinson
PF: Draymond Green
C: DeMarcus Cousins

---DEEP BENCH---
SG: Danny Green
SF: Robert Covington
PF: Anthony Mason
C: Zydrunas Ilgauskas

Strategy will be in my next post.
Ever thought of playing Green instead of Raja as your backup SG? I like Green's versatility on defence more. Would also try looking at playing Covington ahead of Robinson - I think Big Dog's lack of lateral mobility would be costly against a team that has wings who are great at moving off the ball.
I wasn't sure how Raja Bell compared to Danny Green. Bell was definitely before my time, and I think defense in particular relies much more on the eye test than offense does.

RoCo might be really useful in this series, so I may move him into the bench. It's a tough decision for sure.
From my impression of watching some SSOL Suns games, I think Raja was better as a man to man defender (whether on or off the ball), but Green can cover more positions and provide better help defence. But yeah he was ahead of my time as well and I didn't research him heavily (I was focused on analysing Nash/Amare/Marion when watching those games), so I'd appreciate guys who've watched extensive tape of him to give their opinion.

Raja Bell was a really good spot up 3 point shooter (fit so well next to Nash) and one of about 3 guys in the NBA in the mid 2000s along with Bowen and Batter who were reputable Kobe defenders.  I'm probably missing some?  Raja and Bowen were like the guys that made 3&D become a thing.
You are correct, Bell was really a strong 3&D player. 

I really just don't like when people in these fantasy drafts try to play players out of position.  I mean RP has 4 players in his starting lineup playing out of position i.e. Irving at SG, Hamilton at SF, Anthony at PF, and Duncan at C.  I just believe that is a horrible idea.  Players play their positions for a reason and trying to fit them outside of their normal positions/roles is just a bad idea.  I understand trying to get matchup advantages, but it shouldn't be at reducing your own players effectiveness.

I'd honestly probably go with a starting lineup of Cousins, Duncan, Anthony, Bell, and Payton with my main bench rotation being Draymond, Rip, and Kyrie.  I'd then use Big Dog, Franchise, Danny, Mason, Z, and RoCo for situational basketball.  Like in this series with Shaq, I'd probably use Z a lot more for his size than I would in another series.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
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Re: 2020 Historical Draft: WCF...#1 Utah vs #2 Denver
« Reply #62 on: April 08, 2020, 04:07:48 PM »

Offline RPGenerate

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Man, people are way too caught up on silly position names to realize literally none of my player are being used "out of position", at least not in any way that matter. Kyrie played alot of time off-the-ball, sharing ball handling duties with Lebron. He'll be functioning the same way on this team. Melo played the 4 for much of his later career, and he had his best pure scoring from that position. Rip Hamilton at the 3 is still functioning as the same wing he would be at the two. It's a bit silly to discard that with "out of position bad" without looking at the context.

I've already explained how Duncan will be great at the 5. If I haven't convinced you yet, I won't ever. Sorry, but Boogie isn't gonna do a better job on Shaq than Tim D. Can't believe people are still underrating Timmy D to this day lol. You think 20 years of being called underrated would make the label go away, but I guess not. ::)
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PG: Dennis Johnson / Jo Jo White / Stephon Marbury
SG: Sidney Moncrief / World B. Free
SF: Chris Mullin / Ron Artest
PF: Detlef Schrempf / Tom Chambers / Buck Williams
C: Ben Wallace / Andrew Bynum

Re: 2020 Historical Draft: WCF...#1 Utah vs #2 Denver
« Reply #63 on: April 08, 2020, 04:41:01 PM »

Online Donoghus

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Man, people are way too caught up on silly position names to realize literally none of my player are being used "out of position", at least not in any way that matter. Kyrie played alot of time off-the-ball, sharing ball handling duties with Lebron. He'll be functioning the same way on this team. Melo played the 4 for much of his later career, and he had his best pure scoring from that position. Rip Hamilton at the 3 is still functioning as the same wing he would be at the two. It's a bit silly to discard that with "out of position bad" without looking at the context.

I've already explained how Duncan will be great at the 5. If I haven't convinced you yet, I won't ever. Sorry, but Boogie isn't gonna do a better job on Shaq than Tim D. Can't believe people are still underrating Timmy D to this day lol. You think 20 years of being called underrated would make the label go away, but I guess not. ::)

Think you're hurting yourself both offensively & defensively by trying to trot out that starting five. 


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: 2020 Historical Draft: WCF...#1 Utah vs #2 Denver
« Reply #64 on: April 08, 2020, 05:54:22 PM »

Online Celtic Fan Forever

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I really dislike the idea of that smaller lineup for Denver with Melo at the 4 and Kyrie at the 2. Duncan is great, and I'm not underrating him- but he's going to need some help out there defensively against Shaq- nobody can really guard Shaq 1 on 1. Having two minus defenders in there, instead of having an elite defender in Draymond is going to kill the team defense. I can't see Kyrie and Melo in there chasing Peja and Reggie off screens. I'd try to minimize the time Kyrie and Melo are on the court together- two ball stoppers that are negatives on defense.
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PG: Chauncey Billups/ Baron Davis
SG: Michael Redd/ Dan Majerle/ Allan Houston
SF: Peja Stojakovic/ Gerald Wallace/ Toni Kukoc
PF: Shawn Kemp/ Antonio McDyess
C: Dwight Howard/ Tyson Chandler

Re: 2020 Historical Draft: WCF...#1 Utah vs #2 Denver
« Reply #65 on: April 08, 2020, 06:04:35 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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It's 6:00PM. The voting deadline has come and I have issues.

Only 9 out of 14 GMs have placed a ballot and three are incomplete and one is difficult to tell who the GM was voting for.

So I am extending the deadline to whenever I fall asleep tonight, so I can get the votes I have in completed and clarified and give the other 5 GMs a chance to get their votes in.


Re: 2020 Historical Draft: WCF...#1 Utah vs #2 Denver
« Reply #66 on: April 08, 2020, 10:42:26 PM »

Offline Somebody

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Man, people are way too caught up on silly position names to realize literally none of my player are being used "out of position", at least not in any way that matter. Kyrie played alot of time off-the-ball, sharing ball handling duties with Lebron. He'll be functioning the same way on this team. Melo played the 4 for much of his later career, and he had his best pure scoring from that position. Rip Hamilton at the 3 is still functioning as the same wing he would be at the two. It's a bit silly to discard that with "out of position bad" without looking at the context.

I've already explained how Duncan will be great at the 5. If I haven't convinced you yet, I won't ever. Sorry, but Boogie isn't gonna do a better job on Shaq than Tim D. Can't believe people are still underrating Timmy D to this day lol. You think 20 years of being called underrated would make the label go away, but I guess not. ::)
At least he gets way more respect than Garnett :laugh:
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: 2020 Historical Draft: WCF...#1 Utah vs #2 Denver
« Reply #67 on: April 08, 2020, 11:02:20 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Man, people are way too caught up on silly position names to realize literally none of my player are being used "out of position", at least not in any way that matter. Kyrie played alot of time off-the-ball, sharing ball handling duties with Lebron. He'll be functioning the same way on this team. Melo played the 4 for much of his later career, and he had his best pure scoring from that position. Rip Hamilton at the 3 is still functioning as the same wing he would be at the two. It's a bit silly to discard that with "out of position bad" without looking at the context.

I've already explained how Duncan will be great at the 5. If I haven't convinced you yet, I won't ever. Sorry, but Boogie isn't gonna do a better job on Shaq than Tim D. Can't believe people are still underrating Timmy D to this day lol. You think 20 years of being called underrated would make the label go away, but I guess not. ::)
At least he gets way more respect than Garnett :laugh:
Can blame the dumpster fire TWolves for that. At least KG holds it against them

https://www.si.com/nba/2020/04/07/kevin-garnett-glen-taylor-relationship-timberwolves-jersey-retirement
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: 2020 Historical Draft: WCF...#1 Utah vs #2 Denver
« Reply #68 on: April 08, 2020, 11:27:19 PM »

Offline Somebody

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Man, people are way too caught up on silly position names to realize literally none of my player are being used "out of position", at least not in any way that matter. Kyrie played alot of time off-the-ball, sharing ball handling duties with Lebron. He'll be functioning the same way on this team. Melo played the 4 for much of his later career, and he had his best pure scoring from that position. Rip Hamilton at the 3 is still functioning as the same wing he would be at the two. It's a bit silly to discard that with "out of position bad" without looking at the context.

I've already explained how Duncan will be great at the 5. If I haven't convinced you yet, I won't ever. Sorry, but Boogie isn't gonna do a better job on Shaq than Tim D. Can't believe people are still underrating Timmy D to this day lol. You think 20 years of being called underrated would make the label go away, but I guess not. ::)
At least he gets way more respect than Garnett :laugh:
Can blame the dumpster fire TWolves for that. At least KG holds it against them

https://www.si.com/nba/2020/04/07/kevin-garnett-glen-taylor-relationship-timberwolves-jersey-retirement
The worst thing is that people don't realise how special the garbage he played with during 2005-2007 were (although I do acknowledge that 2007 was a down year for him) - the 2008 Celtics all had inflated RAPM numbers (and for some years after that iirc) because RAPM had no way to adjust for Garnett's teammates in Minnesota.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: 2020 Historical Draft: WCF...#1 Utah vs #2 Denver
« Reply #69 on: April 09, 2020, 07:42:33 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Congratulations

To both Utah(action781) and Denver(RPGenerate) for an excellent Western Conference Finals.


The winner, by a count of 15-3, who will go on to the Finals, is:







Re: 2020 Historical Draft: WCF...#1 Utah vs #2 Denver
« Reply #70 on: April 09, 2020, 08:07:01 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Locking thread. You can give your Congrats in the HDMTL Thread, where you will also find the ballots of every voter.