Athletic report on locker room problems

[Tr1boy]

From how I read the article, it seems one huge thing the C’s really lack is culture. A lot of what’s being described strikes me as symptomatic (defense waning, butting heads, tuning out, wanting a coaching change, etc) of something bigger. Maybe it’s the lack of ownership.

Despite JB/JT being here for a while, maybe the lack of stability, high player movement and constant trade rumors around them has made them feel this. Like, they’re not really “Celtics”. That’s a term reserved only for the front office and the fans. They’re just players wearing Celtics jerseys.

And maybe it was a concept they once believed but was lost this year. And it’s a culmination of losing top guys like IT4, Kyrie, Hayward, Horford and less heralded players like Kanter, Green, etc. And now Theis, Kemba an potentially TT.

As much as the locker room might be at odds with Smart right now, I just realized now that trading him might actually end up being the most jarring thing. This guy has been Mr. Celtic for a while now and trading him might send the wrong message. Or maybe idk, maybe JB/JT want him out and need him out to be able to finally lead an make it “their” team

Horford left due to money. And Irving wanted to be little Lebron... and failed

Not sure why the Celts need to become the next Cavs or follow the Lakers

Most other teams follow a hierchy.  Not let a player(s) dictate how it should be run

Imagine a highly regarded specialist or analyst in a corporation overriding the CEO??  Recipe for disaster

If it were up to Tatum. My guess is that Kemba wouldnt be traded. Javonte Green wouldnt have been traded. And last season they sign the often injured Harry Giles to a contract.

Logically, you are correct. But when it comes to things like morale and culture, the reason why players leave matters less, especially if the transition or change was handled poorly (or not handled at all).

To use your corporate analogy, overriding the CEO is an extreme analogy and it wasn’t what I was going for at all. Not everything needs to be an extreme. After all, isn’t it the responsibility of the leadership team to keep morale up and keep their team (including top specialists or analysts) engaged? It’s a different working environment when a team is high risk for attrition vs a team with high satisfaction scores.

Obviously we’re not privy to what’s happening behind the scenes. We can only speculate based on the clues and reports like this that surface. I just happen to think there’s something deeper that ties all the things together, which is players (right now) might not feel any ownership towards what they’re doing. Who cares about banner 18? Players want All-NBA and allstar games and yes, a ring, but does it have to be banner 18? Maybe that was something some of them used to believe but now it’s more, ehhhh

Anyway, on the plus side, maybe the coaching change will spark that passion. Maybe Brad is much better handling players as a GM than he is at handling players as a coach. Maybe Al Horford will inspire some pride in our guys again.

This next move is going to be huge

If you hire someone kind of passive like Stevens.... Celts will be in trouble for the next 2 years imo

[footey]

From how I read the article, it seems one huge thing the C’s really lack is culture. A lot of what’s being described strikes me as symptomatic (defense waning, butting heads, tuning out, wanting a coaching change, etc) of something bigger. Maybe it’s the lack of ownership.

Despite JB/JT being here for a while, maybe the lack of stability, high player movement and constant trade rumors around them has made them feel this. Like, they’re not really “Celtics”. That’s a term reserved only for the front office and the fans. They’re just players wearing Celtics jerseys.

And maybe it was a concept they once believed but was lost this year. And it’s a culmination of losing top guys like IT4, Kyrie, Hayward, Horford and less heralded players like Kanter, Green, etc. And now Theis, Kemba an potentially TT.

As much as the locker room might be at odds with Smart right now, I just realized now that trading him might actually end up being the most jarring thing. This guy has been Mr. Celtic for a while now and trading him might send the wrong message. Or maybe idk, maybe JB/JT want him out and need him out to be able to finally lead an make it “their” team

Horford left due to money. And Irving wanted to be little Lebron... and failed

Not sure why the Celts need to become the next Cavs or follow the Lakers

Most other teams follow a hierchy.  Not let a player(s) dictate how it should be run

Imagine a highly regarded specialist or analyst in a corporation overriding the CEO??  Recipe for disaster

If it were up to Tatum. My guess is that Kemba wouldnt be traded. Javonte Green wouldnt have been traded. And last season they sign the often injured Harry Giles to a contract.

Logically, you are correct. But when it comes to things like morale and culture, the reason why players leave matters less, especially if the transition or change was handled poorly (or not handled at all).

To use your corporate analogy, overriding the CEO is an extreme analogy and it wasn’t what I was going for at all. Not everything needs to be an extreme. After all, isn’t it the responsibility of the leadership team to keep morale up and keep their team (including top specialists or analysts) engaged? It’s a different working environment when a team is high risk for attrition vs a team with high satisfaction scores.

Obviously we’re not privy to what’s happening behind the scenes. We can only speculate based on the clues and reports like this that surface. I just happen to think there’s something deeper that ties all the things together, which is players (right now) might not feel any ownership towards what they’re doing. Who cares about banner 18? Players want All-NBA and allstar games and yes, a ring, but does it have to be banner 18? Maybe that was something some of them used to believe but now it’s more, ehhhh

Anyway, on the plus side, maybe the coaching change will spark that passion. Maybe Brad is much better handling players as a GM than he is at handling players as a coach. Maybe Al Horford will inspire some pride in our guys again.

This next move is going to be huge

If you hire someone kind of passive like Stevens.... Celts will be in trouble for the next 2 years imo

That is why I would prefer Billups to Udoka.  Billups has the gravitas to criticize our players where needed, included the two Jays.  He has the receipts, so to speak. Also Udoka seems to have a similar personality as Brad, and I worry that it will wear out fast with this team.

[PAOBoston]

From how I read the article, it seems one huge thing the C’s really lack is culture. A lot of what’s being described strikes me as symptomatic (defense waning, butting heads, tuning out, wanting a coaching change, etc) of something bigger. Maybe it’s the lack of ownership.

Despite JB/JT being here for a while, maybe the lack of stability, high player movement and constant trade rumors around them has made them feel this. Like, they’re not really “Celtics”. That’s a term reserved only for the front office and the fans. They’re just players wearing Celtics jerseys.

And maybe it was a concept they once believed but was lost this year. And it’s a culmination of losing top guys like IT4, Kyrie, Hayward, Horford and less heralded players like Kanter, Green, etc. And now Theis, Kemba an potentially TT.

As much as the locker room might be at odds with Smart right now, I just realized now that trading him might actually end up being the most jarring thing. This guy has been Mr. Celtic for a while now and trading him might send the wrong message. Or maybe idk, maybe JB/JT want him out and need him out to be able to finally lead an make it “their” team

Horford left due to money. And Irving wanted to be little Lebron... and failed

Not sure why the Celts need to become the next Cavs or follow the Lakers

Most other teams follow a hierchy.  Not let a player(s) dictate how it should be run

Imagine a highly regarded specialist or analyst in a corporation overriding the CEO??  Recipe for disaster

If it were up to Tatum. My guess is that Kemba wouldnt be traded. Javonte Green wouldnt have been traded. And last season they sign the often injured Harry Giles to a contract.

Logically, you are correct. But when it comes to things like morale and culture, the reason why players leave matters less, especially if the transition or change was handled poorly (or not handled at all).

To use your corporate analogy, overriding the CEO is an extreme analogy and it wasn’t what I was going for at all. Not everything needs to be an extreme. After all, isn’t it the responsibility of the leadership team to keep morale up and keep their team (including top specialists or analysts) engaged? It’s a different working environment when a team is high risk for attrition vs a team with high satisfaction scores.

Obviously we’re not privy to what’s happening behind the scenes. We can only speculate based on the clues and reports like this that surface. I just happen to think there’s something deeper that ties all the things together, which is players (right now) might not feel any ownership towards what they’re doing. Who cares about banner 18? Players want All-NBA and allstar games and yes, a ring, but does it have to be banner 18? Maybe that was something some of them used to believe but now it’s more, ehhhh

Anyway, on the plus side, maybe the coaching change will spark that passion. Maybe Brad is much better handling players as a GM than he is at handling players as a coach. Maybe Al Horford will inspire some pride in our guys again.

This next move is going to be huge

If you hire someone kind of passive like Stevens.... Celts will be in trouble for the next 2 years imo

That is why I would prefer Billups to Udoka.  Billups has the gravitas to criticize our players where needed, included the two Jays.  He has the receipts, so to speak. Also Udoka seems to have a similar personality as Brad, and I worry that it will wear out fast with this team.

Anyone have any other info on Udoka? The above seems contradictory to how Jeff Goodman described him. Said Udoka had an “edge” to him which is basically the exact opposite of Brad.

Billups seems to be the obvious choice but he has literally no coaching experience which is slightly frightening. He may have all the accolades and successful playing career but I’m not sure that means he’s the best candidate.

[Who]

I always loved Udoka as a player and thought he would make a great coach - as a player he was tough, disciplined, great communicator, respected, hard working, smart, good decision maker, team first, clearly respected by his peers. Checked all the right boxes for a player to coach candidate.

He has put in the time as an assistant under Pop learning his trade and now on two other teams (to showcase himself outside of San Antonio I imagine due to a lack of job offers).

I'd be happy to see him here.

And would love to see him get a chance anywhere really. Whether here or somewhere else, I am pulling for him.

[footey]

Here is video interview of Udoka explaining offense and defense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk8oMY4Vljg

He is primarily considered a defensive coach; that is what he was doing for the Nets (ranked at the bottom of the league defensively, although they improved during playoffs).

I feel our team needs to get a head coach who is more attuned to offensive schemes.  Chauncey actually has a reputation of being strong on both sides, which reflects his abilities on both sides of the ball as a player as well.

For these reasons, I think Chauncey would be the better choice for the Celtics.

[Ogaju]

Here is video interview of Udoka explaining offense and defense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk8oMY4Vljg

He is primarily considered a defensive coach; that is what he was doing for the Nets (ranked at the bottom of the league defensively, although they improved during playoffs).

I feel our team needs to get a head coach who is more attuned to offensive schemes.  Chauncey actually has a reputation of being strong on both sides, which reflects his abilities on both sides of the ball as a player as well.

For these reasons, I think Chauncey would be the better choice for the Celtics.

BBBBBBBBBBILLUPS!!!!

[Roy H.]

Chauncey actually has a reputation of being strong on both sides, which reflects his abilities on both sides of the ball as a player as well.

As a coach?  Where did that reputation come from?

He’s apparently worked closely with Paul George on being more of a playmaker / creator.  There were tangible signs of progress.

[footey]

Chauncey actually has a reputation of being strong on both sides, which reflects his abilities on both sides of the ball as a player as well.

As a coach?  Where did that reputation come from?

He’s apparently worked closely with Paul George on being more of a playmaker / creator.  There were tangible signs of progress.

He was two time all defensive 2nd team in the NBA as a player.  As a coach, he has been tasked as lead assistant of the Clippers.  He is not specifically assigned as defensive coach for Clippers, but hard to argue that he would not be able to address that side of the ball given his defensive achievements as a player.

Good breakdown by Chauncey of Laker defensive woes a couple of years ago; reminds me of some of the Celtic issues on defense last season!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7nmU3MGRt4

[Roy H.]

The same reporter who just wrote about how toxic the locker room was and how disgruntled Kemba was now reports:

Walker was "heartbroken" after the Boston Celtics traded him to the Oklahoma City Thunder last Friday -- "particularly because of his strong relationships with his teammates," The Athletic's Jared Weiss reported Tuesday.

The 31-year-old point guard was a popular player in Boston's locker room who brought a positive and unselfish attitude to the Celtics. C's president of basketball operations Brad Stevens admitted the trade was hard to make because he "just really like(s) Kemba, period."

In other words, the exact opposite.

[footey]

The same reporter who just wrote about how toxic the locker room was and how disgruntled Kemba was now reports:

Walker was "heartbroken" after the Boston Celtics traded him to the Oklahoma City Thunder last Friday -- "particularly because of his strong relationships with his teammates," The Athletic's Jared Weiss reported Tuesday.

The 31-year-old point guard was a popular player in Boston's locker room who brought a positive and unselfish attitude to the Celtics. C's president of basketball operations Brad Stevens admitted the trade was hard to make because he "just really like(s) Kemba, period."

In other words, the exact opposite.

Ha, yeah well at least Jared Weiss got this scoop as well, LOL.

[gouki88]

The same reporter who just wrote about how toxic the locker room was and how disgruntled Kemba was now reports:

Walker was "heartbroken" after the Boston Celtics traded him to the Oklahoma City Thunder last Friday -- "particularly because of his strong relationships with his teammates," The Athletic's Jared Weiss reported Tuesday.

The 31-year-old point guard was a popular player in Boston's locker room who brought a positive and unselfish attitude to the Celtics. C's president of basketball operations Brad Stevens admitted the trade was hard to make because he "just really like(s) Kemba, period."

In other words, the exact opposite.

If you write enough things one of them is bound to be true!

[Roy H.]

The same reporter who just wrote about how toxic the locker room was and how disgruntled Kemba was now reports:

Walker was "heartbroken" after the Boston Celtics traded him to the Oklahoma City Thunder last Friday -- "particularly because of his strong relationships with his teammates," The Athletic's Jared Weiss reported Tuesday.

The 31-year-old point guard was a popular player in Boston's locker room who brought a positive and unselfish attitude to the Celtics. C's president of basketball operations Brad Stevens admitted the trade was hard to make because he "just really like(s) Kemba, period."

In other words, the exact opposite.

If you write enough things one of them is bound to be true!

It’s embarrassing for the media, but there’s no accountability.  It’s gossip, rather than reporting.  And just like gossip, it’s damaging, because these are real life people being lied about.

I used to think Weiss was a pretty decent guy.  Going to press with back-to-back stories that are directly contradictory makes me question his integrity, though.  Where’s the vetting?  The verification?  The standards?

[Kiorrik]

The same reporter who just wrote about how toxic the locker room was and how disgruntled Kemba was now reports:

Walker was "heartbroken" after the Boston Celtics traded him to the Oklahoma City Thunder last Friday -- "particularly because of his strong relationships with his teammates," The Athletic's Jared Weiss reported Tuesday.

The 31-year-old point guard was a popular player in Boston's locker room who brought a positive and unselfish attitude to the Celtics. C's president of basketball operations Brad Stevens admitted the trade was hard to make because he "just really like(s) Kemba, period."

In other words, the exact opposite.

If you write enough things one of them is bound to be true!

It’s embarrassing for the media, but there’s no accountability.  It’s gossip, rather than reporting.  And just like gossip, it’s damaging, because these are real life people being lied about.

I used to think Weiss was a pretty decent guy.  Going to press with back-to-back stories that are directly contradictory makes me question his integrity, though.  Where’s the vetting?  The verification?  The standards?

Yeah for some reason I recall that name in positive light too. Was he part of CB for a while or something?

I don't recall too much :]

[86MaxwellSmart]

The same reporter who just wrote about how toxic the locker room was and how disgruntled Kemba was now reports:

Walker was "heartbroken" after the Boston Celtics traded him to the Oklahoma City Thunder last Friday -- "particularly because of his strong relationships with his teammates," The Athletic's Jared Weiss reported Tuesday.

The 31-year-old point guard was a popular player in Boston's locker room who brought a positive and unselfish attitude to the Celtics. C's president of basketball operations Brad Stevens admitted the trade was hard to make because he "just really like(s) Kemba, period."

In other words, the exact opposite.

If you write enough things one of them is bound to be true!

It’s embarrassing for the media, but there’s no accountability.  It’s gossip, rather than reporting.  And just like gossip, it’s damaging, because these are real life people being lied about.

I used to think Weiss was a pretty decent guy.  Going to press with back-to-back stories that are directly contradictory makes me question his integrity, though.  Where’s the vetting?  The verification?  The standards?

Seems like both stories were made to make the C's organization look bad