Author Topic: The pecking order has been established finally  (Read 5025 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

The pecking order has been established finally
« on: February 27, 2020, 05:40:52 PM »

Offline Spicoli

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1174
  • Tommy Points: 130
1. Tatum
2. Brown
3. Kemba
4. Hayward
5. Smart
6. Theis
7. Kanter
8. Wannamaker

Those are the best players on the team in that order. I'm so glad there is no longer any confusion with the pecking order on this team.

Re: The pecking order has been established finally
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2020, 05:52:23 PM »

Offline footey

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15965
  • Tommy Points: 1833
1. Tatum
2. Brown
3. Kemba
4. Hayward
5. Smart
6. Theis
7. Kanter
8. Wannamaker

Those are the best players on the team in that order. I'm so glad there is no longer any confusion with the pecking order on this team.

Good idea, although I think this has recency bias.

Re: The pecking order has been established finally
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2020, 06:00:04 PM »

Offline dannyboy35

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1939
  • Tommy Points: 104
   Really aggravated me this year how Tatum was prioritized over Hayward. Hayward would be getting 21/7/6 plus somewhere else. Tatum is coming on like crazy so I gotta be happy but I think Brad is pathetic with delegating. We’re lucky Kemba, Hayward and brown are this unselfish. Brown or Hayward says a goal is to average 20 ppg? Oh my god people would lose their mind in Boston. They’d hate in them so bad.
 

Re: The pecking order has been established finally
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2020, 06:31:00 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6932
  • Tommy Points: 814
  • A true Celtic plays with heart.
   Really aggravated me this year how Tatum was prioritized over Hayward. Hayward would be getting 21/7/6 plus somewhere else. Tatum is coming on like crazy so I gotta be happy but I think Brad is pathetic with delegating. We’re lucky Kemba, Hayward and brown are this unselfish. Brown or Hayward says a goal is to average 20 ppg? Oh my god people would lose their mind in Boston. They’d hate in them so bad.

I don't get the cause of aggravation? Everyone plays this year cohesively as a team.

And this was always going to be the Jays team, whether or not Hayward liked it. Everyone on this team has also bought in.
"I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies and hypotheses
Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

Is the glass half-full or half-empty?
It's based on your perspective, quite simply
We're the same and we're not; know what I'm saying? Listen
Son, I ain't better than you, I just think different

Re: The pecking order has been established finally
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2020, 06:37:38 PM »

Offline trickybilly

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5593
  • Tommy Points: 617
Jaylen is the most interesting story in all this
"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: The pecking order has been established finally
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2020, 07:14:50 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23320
  • Tommy Points: 2509
Jaylen is the most interesting story in all this

I agree.  But Smart and Theis are also pretty interesting.   Theis is averaging 15/9 (7 Games) since his return from his last injury.   Smart is 17/4/6 in his last 5 games. This team is looking dang solid right now.

And Kemba will return

Re: The pecking order has been established finally
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2020, 08:07:47 PM »

Offline ETNCeltics

  • NCE
  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2720
  • Tommy Points: 306
1. Tatum
2. Brown
3. Kemba
4. Hayward
5. Smart
6. Theis
7. Kanter
8. Wannamaker

Those are the best players on the team in that order. I'm so glad there is no longer any confusion with the pecking order on this team.
Brown isn't #2 yet. He's still tentative at times.

The true order emerges in the last 2 minutes. It's Tatum, then Kemba. Brown will be #2, but he's not there yet.

   Really aggravated me this year how Tatum was prioritized over Hayward. Hayward would be getting 21/7/6 plus somewhere else. Tatum is coming on like crazy so I gotta be happy but I think Brad is pathetic with delegating. We’re lucky Kemba, Hayward and brown are this unselfish. Brown or Hayward says a goal is to average 20 ppg? Oh my god people would lose their mind in Boston. They’d hate in them so bad.
Tatum is the alpha. They've all known it all year, even when Tatum wasn't shooting well. Even Kemba has usually deferred to him.

Re: The pecking order has been established finally
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2020, 08:39:25 PM »

Offline Rosco917

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6108
  • Tommy Points: 559
I agree on the pecking order to a degree, (I see Kemba as 2.) But as I look at the box scores I routinely see Smart taking more shots than Hayward. I love Marcus, I love what he brings to a game. But him taking more shots than Hayward? This is a sure fire way to lose basketball games. While Marcus has improved as a 3 point shooter, his overall shooting percentage is horrible compared to Hayward.

Remember something, there are only so many shots to be taken in a game, it's not an unlimited number.

Re: The pecking order has been established finally
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2020, 08:51:37 PM »

Offline Surferdad

  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14456
  • Tommy Points: 972
  • "He fiddles...and diddles..."
I agree on the pecking order to a degree, (I see Kemba as 2.) But as I look at the box scores I routinely see Smart taking more shots than Hayward. I love Marcus, I love what he brings to a game. But him taking more shots than Hayward? This is a sure fire way to lose basketball games. While Marcus has improved as a 3 point shooter, his overall shooting percentage is horrible compared to Hayward.

Remember something, there are only so many shots to be taken in a game, it's not an unlimited number.
Yet, they've been winning that way lately. :P   But I do agree with the larger point that Hayward needs to get his shots.

Re: The pecking order has been established finally
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2020, 09:28:45 PM »

Offline BringToughnessBack

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8088
  • Tommy Points: 941
21 and our alpha. I love it. We are in for some amazing years of titles coming soon!

Re: The pecking order has been established finally
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2020, 09:42:10 PM »

Offline Ogaju

  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19479
  • Tommy Points: 1871
there is only one cure to the shots problem. Play an up tempo game that generates MORE SHOTS.

Re: The pecking order has been established finally
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2020, 04:02:32 AM »

Offline ozgod

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16785
  • Tommy Points: 1362
   Really aggravated me this year how Tatum was prioritized over Hayward. Hayward would be getting 21/7/6 plus somewhere else. Tatum is coming on like crazy so I gotta be happy but I think Brad is pathetic with delegating. We’re lucky Kemba, Hayward and brown are this unselfish. Brown or Hayward says a goal is to average 20 ppg? Oh my god people would lose their mind in Boston. They’d hate in them so bad.

There's 2 reasons for this:

1) Hayward has a more diverse skillset than Tatum at this point. He can thrive without scoring. He can run an offense and drive and kick to an open player much better than Tatum. Tatum is more one dimensional as a scorer but he's really good as a scorer. So it makes sense to have him focus on that and Hayward still adds value without needing to go 21/7/6.

Of course, it helps that....

2. Hayward is unselfish and doesn't really care that he's not featured as the star and needing to get his 21/7/6. I can't emphasize this enough, how rare it is to have a max type player (and we have two, with Kemba), who came here expecting to be the No2 option on the team behind IT, be willing to take a back seat to a young guy trying to make his name for himself. At this point in their careers, the league knows what Hayward is capable of for the most part. (Some Celtics fans have forgotten but I'm pretty sure the players have not). Like Kemba, he's made an All Star team, he's been the focal point of a team, here to win a championship. That's really what he has to prove to himself. He knows he can get those numbers if the team needs it. Tommy said at one of the Post Game segments, that Hayward knows his role on this team isn't to take the most shots, it's to take the right shots. Plus he's got paid already. Tatum is at that point in his career where he's trying to make that leap, to get paid, and to be the centerpiece of a team.

It's a sacrifice that Hayward and Kemba are making, to cop criticism from fans when they don't score in a manner fans deem to be befitting a max contract player. Not everyone can score 25 a game constantly, we saw 4 of them do that last week and what happened? Our bench got criticized for scoring 10 points. There's a limited number of points available for everyone. It's all about getting the right balance, making the right decisions, taking the best shot for the team.

And people tend to overlook this aspect of the game but there's more to basketball than just scoring, scoring is ultimately how the game is measured, but you have to play defense, screen effectively, create shots for others. How many of Tatum, Brown, Kemba and Hayward's points are due to Theis screening for them? How many are due to Marcus and Gordon creating scoring opportunities with their passing? How well are they playing off the ball. It's easy to create a scoring pecking order, looking at the hidden value other players add to the team is harder.

To me, the next stage of Tatum and Brown's improvements will be to make OTHER players better, by making better reads, drawing and passing better, creating for others, being unselfish. That's when they will hit that next level. Brown is kind of ahead of Tatum IMO in that respect. When Tatum is hot he genuinely feels like the best shot is his shot, like against LA in the 4th quarter when they locked him down by trapping him. But against Portland and Utah he did a much better job of getting rid of the ball when they trapped him and let himself be a decoy for others in the 4th. As he gets better at that, then we truly have an unselfish team where the best shot is one that the team collectively creates for one of them, and nobody on the other team knows where it's coming from.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2020, 04:16:47 AM by ozgod »
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: The pecking order has been established finally
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2020, 08:47:49 AM »

Offline MichiganAdam

  • Derrick White
  • Posts: 260
  • Tommy Points: 16
I agree on the pecking order to a degree, (I see Kemba as 2.) But as I look at the box scores I routinely see Smart taking more shots than Hayward. I love Marcus, I love what he brings to a game. But him taking more shots than Hayward? This is a sure fire way to lose basketball games. While Marcus has improved as a 3 point shooter, his overall shooting percentage is horrible compared to Hayward.

Remember something, there are only so many shots to be taken in a game, it's not an unlimited number.

Most of Smart's threes are the correct shot.  With the other players drawing all of the attention, Smart ends up getting alot of wide open looks at the 3.  Like Tatum last year, those shots are fine.  The ones that aren't are the drive and off balance 2's rather than drive and kick.  Marcus is a better passer than he is off balance shooter.  I would love Marcus to finish the transition to the 3 and D player who averages 6 assists and 4 rebounds.  That is his ideal niche to me.  Guard the best PG,SH,SF, hit the open 3's, drive and dish, clean the glass/do all of the dirty work.

Re: The pecking order has been established finally
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2020, 09:16:53 AM »

Offline droopdog7

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6970
  • Tommy Points: 466
I don’t agree that the pecking order has quite been established and I don’t agree with the order presented in the OP.  I want to see how Tatum performs long term with Kemba in the line up (he’s still our leading scorer I believe) and Kemba is no less than second.  And, I might put brown fourth in terms of go to in crunch time, which what separates men from the boys.

Re: The pecking order has been established finally
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2020, 09:30:35 AM »

Offline cman88

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5153
  • Tommy Points: 359
Hayward is still averaging 17ppg. It's not like hes putting up al horford numbers.

Part of the reason he came to the celtics was similar to kemba to be on a winning team.