Montrezl Harrell

[blink]

Yes KG, Romani. An offensive colloquial term is gypsies (Cigani, in Croatian). Glad it was worth a read to you.

I thought so. My father's mother was of Romani descent. Her parents were born in Italy, and emigrated to the US from Poland post WWI pre WWII, which was very lucky for them (and me).

An interesting example of how racial/ethnic stereotyping can seep unnoticed into our lives is the use of the term "gyp" (pronounced 'jip') that most of us have used to mean ripped off "you gypped me".  Most of us don't realize this comes from "Gypsy" and is obviously a stereotype and derogatory.

I didn't realize till I just saw Androslav's post above that Gypsy itself is offensive.

ok that was illuminating.  TP for that comment.  I never thought about that at all. 

So I guess I need to stop listening to Fleetwood Mac 'Gypsy'...hmm that song has some great guitar parts by Lindsey Buckingham...

[blink]

My question is: Is anyone actually offended by the term "White boy"? I'm White and I've been called it and I have never found it offensive. Did Doncic care? I haven't heard anything from him. So I'm curious if any White people actually find it hurtful because all I'm seeing is the "if it was the other way around" argument claiming a racial slur directed at Harrell would've been comparable.

But if no one is actually offended by the term and folks who want Harrell punished are just reacting to a perceived double standard then what you're saying is that something inoffensive (White boy) is the same as something offensive (a theoretical slur directed at Harrell, which is left vague because no one wants to defend a specific slur, probably).

That's the difference. If two terms are about race but one is not offensive to the target and the other is offensive to the target, then they are not that same thing. Context matters.

I agree with this 100%.  It's more that the context and severity of the comment matter more.  I'm white - the 'white boy' comment from a black guy to me, not a big deal to me.  I mean is what Harrell said any worse than KG calling a guy a 'cancer patient', or his 'cerrios' comment to Melo?  I mean all of these, Harrell's included, I consider just in game trash-talking trying a bit to get in the guy's head.  I think that is different that a full out racist comment.  But what do I know? lol  This is why issues of race are so hard.  Everyone has different things they find offensive, and everyone has a different perspective.

I mean we could just all do what my mom taught me, respect everyone, call everyone sir and maam, and treat other people how you want to be treated.

[KGs Knee]

I mean we could just all do what my mom taught me, respect everyone, call everyone sir and maam, and treat other people how you want to be treated.

Maybe we don't need to call everyone sir or ma'am, but yeah, we could all stand to stop using people's identities to disparage them or others, regardless of what that identity is.

It's obviously a lot easier said than done, though.  If it was easy things wouldn't be the way they are.

[blink]

I mean we could just all do what my mom taught me, respect everyone, call everyone sir and maam, and treat other people how you want to be treated.

Maybe we don't need to call everyone sir or ma'am, but yeah, we could all stand to stop using people's identities to disparage them or others, regardless of what that identity is.

It's obviously a lot easier said than done, though.  If it was easy things wouldn't be the way they are.

I know, oversimplification of a complex problem.

[Neurotic Guy]

My question is: Is anyone actually offended by the term "White boy"? I'm White and I've been called it and I have never found it offensive. Did Doncic care? I haven't heard anything from him. So I'm curious if any White people actually find it hurtful because all I'm seeing is the "if it was the other way around" argument claiming a racial slur directed at Harrell would've been comparable.

But if no one is actually offended by the term and folks who want Harrell punished are just reacting to a perceived double standard then what you're saying is that something inoffensive (White boy) is the same as something offensive (a theoretical slur directed at Harrell, which is left vague because no one wants to defend a specific slur, probably).

That's the difference. If two terms are about race but one is not offensive to the target and the other is offensive to the target, then they are not that same thing. Context matters.

Great post.  This isn’t exactly what I referred to before as the power differential but it’s related.

“Reverse situations” are only truly reversed if the impact is equal.  In many cases stereotypes or denigration from majority/power groups to people of minority groups has far more impact than the reverse, therefore it just isn’t the same thing.  That doesn’t mean it’s ok or “right” but it isn’t the same thing. 

[KGs Knee]

My question is: Is anyone actually offended by the term "White boy"? I'm White and I've been called it and I have never found it offensive. Did Doncic care? I haven't heard anything from him. So I'm curious if any White people actually find it hurtful because all I'm seeing is the "if it was the other way around" argument claiming a racial slur directed at Harrell would've been comparable.

But if no one is actually offended by the term and folks who want Harrell punished are just reacting to a perceived double standard then what you're saying is that something inoffensive (White boy) is the same as something offensive (a theoretical slur directed at Harrell, which is left vague because no one wants to defend a specific slur, probably).

That's the difference. If two terms are about race but one is not offensive to the target and the other is offensive to the target, then they are not that same thing. Context matters.

Great post.  This isn’t exactly what I referred to before as the power differential but it’s related.

“Reverse situations” are only truly reversed if the impact is equal.  In many cases stereotypes or denigration from majority/power groups to people of minority groups has far more impact than the reverse, therefore it just isn’t the same thing.  That doesn’t mean it’s ok or “right” but it isn’t the same thing.

I'm not sure anyone here has claimed what Harrell said to Doncic is as bad as it would be if Doncic had called Harrell a 'n word' but does it have to be?  It's still bad and wrong and shouldn't happen.

[Roy H.]

My question is: Is anyone actually offended by the term "White boy"? I'm White and I've been called it and I have never found it offensive. Did Doncic care? I haven't heard anything from him. So I'm curious if any White people actually find it hurtful because all I'm seeing is the "if it was the other way around" argument claiming a racial slur directed at Harrell would've been comparable.

But if no one is actually offended by the term and folks who want Harrell punished are just reacting to a perceived double standard then what you're saying is that something inoffensive (White boy) is the same as something offensive (a theoretical slur directed at Harrell, which is left vague because no one wants to defend a specific slur, probably).

That's the difference. If two terms are about race but one is not offensive to the target and the other is offensive to the target, then they are not that same thing. Context matters.

Great post.  This isn’t exactly what I referred to before as the power differential but it’s related.

“Reverse situations” are only truly reversed if the impact is equal.  In many cases stereotypes or denigration from majority/power groups to people of minority groups has far more impact than the reverse, therefore it just isn’t the same thing.  That doesn’t mean it’s ok or “right” but it isn’t the same thing.

I'm not sure anyone here has claimed what Harrell said to Doncic is as bad as it would be if Doncic had called Harrell a 'n word' but does it have to be?  It's still bad and wrong and shouldn't happen.

Agreed.  And it seems a bit disingenuous to say the phrase was simply “white boy”.

[Ogaju]

My question is: Is anyone actually offended by the term "White boy"? I'm White and I've been called it and I have never found it offensive. Did Doncic care? I haven't heard anything from him. So I'm curious if any White people actually find it hurtful because all I'm seeing is the "if it was the other way around" argument claiming a racial slur directed at Harrell would've been comparable.

But if no one is actually offended by the term and folks who want Harrell punished are just reacting to a perceived double standard then what you're saying is that something inoffensive (White boy) is the same as something offensive (a theoretical slur directed at Harrell, which is left vague because no one wants to defend a specific slur, probably).

That's the difference. If two terms are about race but one is not offensive to the target and the other is offensive to the target, then they are not that same thing. Context matters.

from what I read he called him a b word a word white guy. That is a long long way from just white boy.

[wiley]

Celtic Friends, especially American, I feel for your troubles with racism issues and I pray for you to have the smarts, courage, and resilience to stay on the right path resolving them. I'd like to share my thoughts with you.

I always despised racism. I literally have a physical reaction toward it. I get a rush of adrenaline and start sweating immensely, my heart starts pounding heavily as if I am in some kind of immediate danger. And, I feel like I could move a mountain when I sense it. As racism is something unacceptable to me and the society I am trying to create and be a part of.

In my homeland of Croatia, racism is mostly manifested against minorities of Roma (more pronounced) and Serb (more during the war of Croatian independence, post-war it diminishes with time) population. It is not as evident and existent towards people of a different color. We actually don't have many here and they certainly aren't in the position of power here to make it more plausible. When folks see them on the street, it's something exotic, rather than anything negative.

Like I said, ever since I was a little 5-6 y/o kid and my father, read the "Uncle Tom's Cabin" to me, I felt such injustice that it struck to me for a lifetime. I remember it made my blood boil upon listening to it in tears ("WHY dad? Why did he had to beat him with the whip?"), and that feeling hasn't faded since. It went far as fighting (words) with some of the members of my family over these issues. I don't care, If you are a racist, I don't consider you as my family. Simple as that. It is like pedophilia or rape.
It is completely unacceptable.

Someone once said that there is a little Hitler in all of us. And I agreed with that analogy. So I adapted and expanded it.
We can't destroy Hitler in our head, we have to manage and live with him. We have to outsmart him. But how do I outsmart and outplay an authoritarian merciless leader (single-mindedness) in my brain? Hmm, I though. I'll do it with democracy. A pluralism of thought and with my vast knowledge, that I have carefully collected through the years. In the democratic regime in my head, one authoritarian can't cause significant harm. If he rises a bit, he will get outvoted and pushed to the margins. My knowledge will disprove his weak thories. While on the pulpit, he will be faced with many serious and tough questions, from every angle that I have representative in; togetherness, inclusiveness, equality, care, love, history, common sense, biology, spirituality, immateriality... and he won't be able to answer those question adequately. And he will eventually loses his credibility. That is how I manage him. I outvote him every time. But... one day I might not. And the dictator could rise again. And one by one, all that I love and everything that is beautiful in my life could be destroyed. What a horrible scenario of my life that would be. Scary.
That's why the fight is never over. And I will always be prepared to fight with him.

Lets stay strong and fight for things that are worth fighting for.
Racism is one of those things.

Thank you for taking the time to write this excellent post...

[Somebody]

As a white guy who used to play basketball with guys from all races a lot, I can say that I have been called 'white boy' by a black player one time that I can remember in a pickup game a few years ago.  It didn't bother me at all at the time, and since then I never thought of what he said as some big racial slur at me.  He was a really tall, and REALLY good player.  I blocked him out one time and then hit a few shots on him, so I just considered it him being po'd that some short white guy made few plays against him.

So from my perspective, if that was all Harrell said, man just let it go, he apologized and Luka accepted.  There are way way worse things that could have been said.  I don't think Harrell is a racist, and I certainly don't think he needs to be suspended or fined or anything.

I can't speak on the context of how the phrase was used toward you, but it seems rather clear Harrell was using the phrase towards Doncic in a very intentionally derogatory manner. By definition, using someone's race against them in a derogatory manner is racist.

But as I said last night, it could very well have been nothing more than ignorance on Harrell's part. I'm not interested in casting him out of the league, or society.  I am interested in his actions moving forward.  If he's learned from this and it turns out to be a one time thing, then I see no reason to harp on it.

It is quite dangerous and inexcusable to dismiss this as 'no big deal', however.  I'm not going to tolerate people using that phrase anymore.  It has no place in society.  Just because some white people don't mind racial epithets being thrown their way doesn't mean the rest of us have to tolerate it.

^^^TP. For all the American talk about minorities being "indoctrinated" and "systematically influenced" to accept discrimination, it's very surprising to me that the reverse hasn't been discussed regarding "privileged white" people being absolutely fine with being called names like "b**** a** white boy" - I can't imagine any other race being fine with that, no matter what context or history is behind it.

[Androslav]

Yes KG, Romani. An offensive colloquial term is gypsies (Cigani, in Croatian). Glad it was worth a read to you.

I thought so. My father's mother was of Romani descent. Her parents were born in Italy, and emigrated to the US from Poland post WWI pre WWII, which was very lucky for them (and me).

It surely was good for you and your family. Geographicaly, positioned between 2 striving to be superpowers (Germany and SSSR) at the time, without much natural barriers (mostly flatlands without mountains west nor east), Poland was a harsh place to survive in for the most of the 20th century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Poland#/media/File:Poland_topo.jpg

[tenn_smoothie]

Well, I guess I'll be THE FIRST to post on here that he APOLOGIZED to Luka for it



Shouldn't have said it but he DID apologize.

It is ONE THING to say something like this but it is ANOTHER to come back and apologize for it.

The problem is the double standard that is so prevalent with the race issue in this country. If a white player had made some racist comment toward a black player, no amount of apologizing or groveling would forgive the transgression. The white player would be suspended, fined, sent to the Gulag. The black player is forgiven because, after all, he is a black man in America and God knows the suffering he has endured with his million dollar bank account.

[Neurotic Guy]

Well, I guess I'll be THE FIRST to post on here that he APOLOGIZED to Luka for it



Shouldn't have said it but he DID apologize.

It is ONE THING to say something like this but it is ANOTHER to come back and apologize for it.

The problem is the double standard that is so prevalent with the race issue in this country. If a white player had made some racist comment toward a black player, no amount of apologizing or groveling would forgive the transgression. The white player would be suspended, fined, sent to the Gulag. The black player is forgiven because, after all, he is a black man in America and God knows the suffering he has endured with his million dollar bank account.

Not sure I agree with what would happen if...  but I do think that comments from black to white v. white to black are not equivalent  (there is not a pure double-standard because power and impact are different) -- which has been addressed about a hundred times in the last few days.  You obviously don't see it that way, but others do.  You may be right, maybe not.

[tenn_smoothie]

They should be equivalent - otherwise you are saying the black player is just not capable of maintaining the same integrity as the white player.
Now that is real racism.

[gouki88]

They should be equivalent - otherwise you are saying the black player is just not capable of maintaining the same integrity as the white player.
Now that is real racism.

Deplorable attempt to twist NG's respectable post into something it isn't