2019 Historical: How Does My Team Look Thread

[Silky]

I stated all thise things. Didnt matter.

I had to defend kobe since the pick od him

Because pick 11 was a bit too early and you then went over the top defending him by just making crazy comments.

And for some idiotic reason had to defend hakeem. When guys who scored the same way like ewing and moses got free passes.

 

Again because you said crazy idiotic things and were going to play him at PF.  These are the first few posts in the thread after you took Hakeem mentioning Hakeem.  Notice all very positive.

I was thinking of drafting Hakeem at 5 so I was watching a youtube video of his game from 1993 playoffs. His quickness is just unbelievable.

You know about his quickness ... it is the first thing that comes to mind when you think of him ... but you forget just how truly incredibly it was.

That defensive quickness in closing down space and providing help defense. What a defender. And then used that same quickness to destroy people in the post on offense. Amazing player.

He - along with Russell - were my other picks. I considered Wilt as well. You'll have fun building around Dream.

Hakeem was only player ever to win MVP, Finals MVP, DPOY in same season.
Only 3 times in NBA has a 25+ ppg scorer ever won DPOY.  Hakeem was 2 of them.  (MJ the third)
In '94 & '95 he absolutely dominated some of the elite players of a pretty tough generation which will be starters on a few teams in this game.

I'm happy sticking with MJ, but Hakeem would be my #2 choice of players I'd want to build around.  (Shaq was #3)

Then after selecting  Kobe this is the very first comment in the thread.

Oooh, Kobe and Hakeem together! I hadn't realized that. Nice. Those two would work very well together.

These are the next 3 related to either of your selections.  One questioning his attitude, but two very positive.

I’m trying to stay open-minded about Kobe (Mr. 8-for-24), but he was such a jerk, and maybe too ball dominant.

But mostly, I just hate the guy.

Gross.. but good pick

Great choices...will be interesting to see you build around these two.

The problem wasn't your selections.  It was your attitude and your ridiculous statements about them.

No its just become stupid and exhausting at this point.

Kobe is a ball hog that passes. And in his most ball hogging season recorded he has less time per possession than lebron that year. But that was ignored when i posted it.

And apparently now all stats are useless now.

Its just taken up entirely too much of my time.

I am done. Everyone wins. My team sucks.

Just leave me out of it please

And this is why you won't be allowed to participate in these type of drafts again.  Your attitude is quite simply just awful.  You make ridiculous hyperboles that aren't based in reality.  There is defending your team and then there is nonsense.  You pretty quickly went into the nonsense realm.

Ask me if i care.

You in particular have been against me for some time. Threatening to boot me long before the draft was even over becuase I was appaled at you and your little buddies claiming hakeem wouldnt destroy ewing in thia day amd age and instead kept bringing back to the 90s when they played against each other.

But when i try to use stats from the past to support something you all stat they are irrelevant.

You have all beem condescending and arrogant throughout most of this game and blaming it all on me instead

If I misused a stat or made am error in a statement you all immediately jumped down my throat claiming hyperbole or calling me an idiot. Or whathaveyou.

I have been singled out for attack pretty exclusively for anything i posted for my opinion.

Which is all based on hypotheticals

Remember the 1 year of kidd veraus 1 year of payton in todays game? I had everyone piling on me there.

That is what i misposke about lists when i was thinking about debates as to who is better. Didnt matter. Lets just pound on a "hyperbole" as opposed to questioning in i posted in error.

Lets accuse as opposed to question.

Then it has been a non stop pile on since.

Ask again if i care if i am a part of one of these in the future.

Go ahead

I could care less.
I could care less if no one likes my team.

I am much more dissapointed in what I thought was a cool community that is instead confrontational, condescending and far to quick to snap to a conclusion about someone. And yeah i said someone as opposed to post.

Ask again if i care about not being a part of a game like this again.

I wanted to just have fun debating players against players and maybe a little trash talking for fun. That went away fast when it became a pile in instead.

[Silky]

That is why every ranking of point guards ever made has Payton above Kidd.

Literally the first result on google for best PGs of all-time:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarankPGs/ranking-top-10-point-guards-ever

lol.

trash list

Any list that puts Kidd above Payton is a terrible list.
Any list that puts Kidd above Walt is just not even worth looking at.

Every single list on the first page of google’s search results has Kidd ranked higher.

The hyperbolic schtick is actually hurting your team, because nobody takes your ability to evaluate players seriously. Nobody else is throwing out wild statements and completely disrespecting other teams.

I've used ESPN a lot in this.  They have Kidd at 35 and Payton at 41.  Same general range, not much difference, but with Kidd the slight edge.  That seems right to me.

Taking entire career into consideration, sure, but this game is to take a season.

Remember this?

Payton is better. That is why every ranking of point guards ever made has Payton above Kidd.

You’ve killed your credibility.  Goukii was willing to concede it was a draw, and you chose to act the fool instead.  I don’t think that’s helpful.

Full disclosure, I ranked your team in the bottom quadrant. I wish your had spent more time talking about how Kobe can be more efficient in this exercise, rather than some of the hyperbole.

^this tbh. I would've ranked your team quite a bit higher if you spent more time convincing me how your pieces would fit, and how your two ball dominant superstars would scale back their offenses while maintaining their offensive value.
FYI your team was ranked near the middle in my rankings, I still rate your team.

I shouldnt have to convince people that Koibe and Hakeem are great basketball players, 2 top 15 guys EASILY, that are capable of playing with others.

That seems a waste of time and a foolish thing to do.

Kobe had a 24 assist rate that year, Bird had a career average of 23.7.
But somehow Bird was a great teammate and a willing passer but Kobe was a selfish ballhog.

You cannot debate against pre-conceived notions.

That's where the eye test comes in. Bird played a relatively "off-ball" game compared to other offensive megastars, which assist % can't really quantify. And you should try and explain why both of them can mesh, they have very ball dominant games in the sense that they need to hold the ball for a long time to do their thing on offense.

+

And McGrady, Gilmore, erving, Garnett, Goodrich, Marion and Brand dont?


Kobe's and Hakeems time per possession was just behind that of Lebron and Jordan.

Why dont those teams have to justify those players fit?

Gilmore, KG, Goodrich and Marion are ball dominant players? I absolutely agree that McGrady, Erving and Brand need the ball to be effective, but the other 4 being ball dominant is quite laughable imo. And maybe because those teams actually have players who fit nicely with them? If they don't they're penalised in my rankings, iirc one of them was ranked in your range.

Yeah. Gilmore and kg were.

Any player that utilizes post ups in their game have a longer time per possession.

That is pretty basic

Both weren't post up heavy players though when they were paired with good teammates, especially Gilmore, who was criticised for passing up easy looks as he was such a willing (but mediocre) passer-it's why he had such a high FG%, he only took very high efficiency shots. You're grasping at straws here, both players were very scalable offensively either due to their shot selection (Gilmore) or ability to stretch the floor and play like an oversized point forward (Garnett).

sigh

Steph Curry 2015-2016 - 32.6
Tracy McGrady 2002-2003 - 35.2
Julius Erving 1975-1976 - 29
Kevin Garnett 2003-2004) - 29.6
Dave Cowens 1975-1976 - No data

Usage for starters - 126.4 (not including Cowens)


Gary Payton 1995-96 - 24.4
Kobe Bryant 2007-08 - 31.4
Bob Dandridge 1972-73 - (career 23)
Dave Debusscherre 1967-68 no stats
Hakeem Olajuwon 1993-94 - 31.7

Starters Usage 110.5 (Not Including Dave)


Usage is the easiest metric to use to show time of possessions over multiple years.

SO my lineup has less issue than yours

Throwing out another very flawed stat lol, usage rate measures shot attempts than the actual amount of time a player holds the ball. Curry, Garnett and the Doctor weren't shot clock eaters the way Kobe and Hakeem were, the only guy on my team who's actually more ball dominant than shot dominant is McGrady.

That is not what that stat means at all.

"An estimate of the percentage of team plays used by a player while he was on the floor."


You are spinning the meanings of statistics. And incorrectly at that.

Rajon Rondo has a career usage of 21.5 yet only takes 9.5 fga per game, by your logic his usage should be alot lower because usage means how many shots you take.

Usage doesn’t show time used of possessions.  It predates when we have play-by-play data that includes time.  It does account for assists, turnovers, and fouls that result in a shot but no FGA, in additions to FGAs.  But no time of possession.

It measures a percentage of total teams plays when the player is on the court.

A high usage is indicitive of time with ball in hands.

Pace plays into it. But it a reasonable enough stat to detrmine time.

And in the case if me using it it works as a statistical rebuttal of points made against my team.

Not that any of it matters at all im the long run

No it is not.  Ending a possession is no where near the same thing as dominating a possession (whether you end it or not). 

You can look at the time of possession league leaders and see there really isn't a ton of correlation between that and usage (I mean other than Harden leading in both).  Solidifying this point, Durant had the 2nd highest USG last year but was tied for 35th in time of possession. 

https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/?sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1&CF=TOUCHES*GE*60:GP*GE*40&Season=2018-19

You realize this was only a trackable statistic from 2013 right?

And in my original post I stated that the next closest thing is usage to determine fit between teammates. But it does show, when comparing offensive talents, if there is enough ball to go around. And it proves that kobe and hakeem is just fine as a duo because everone else is low in the lineup.

I cannot track time of possession prior 2013 season.

And this was all in rebuttal to the claim that kobe and hakeem wouldnt work together because they are bith so ball dominate.

Why am i getting the feeling that its all just become a gang up on silky thread

That everyone is going to look into each minute detail and anything that i may have possibly misrepresented when posting out of natural language in am effort to rebutt any claim i make.

In kobes ballhigging years he had came behind lebron, paul, simmons etc for time of possession but he is a ball hig and the others arent.

Lebron took more shots than kobe that year. Tmac, iverson and wade just behind....but kobe was a ballhog.

Ranked 4th in assist% that year among sgs but he was a ballhog.

I know it was only trackable since 2013, but if the numbers don't support the correlation you are making for the current seasons, why would you think it would correlate differently to the prior seasons when time of possession wasn't tracked? 

And the real problem is you don't understand the numbers you are using to justify your points.  AST% is the percentage of teammate FG's you assisted while you were on the floor.  It is actually quite logical that a ball hog would have a decent AST% because he is only making passes when his teammates are in positions to score.  Thus he gets an assist even if he hogs the ball the ball forever.  It is a large reason why someone like Harden has such a high AST%.  He hogs the ball a lot but is able to create good looks for his teammates which he then passes to for makes. 

Shots aren't indicative of being a ball hog.  See Durant.  Durant shoots a lot.  Durant has a very high usage rate.  But Durant doesn't pound the ball.  He moves the ball quite well, either by taking a shot or getting it out of his hand.  4.2 seconds per possession is next to nothing for someone that is as good a scorer as Durant is, especially when you consider that includes coast to coast plays, designed clear outs, etc. 

No one is out to get you, but the fact that you are arguing things like Kobe isn't a ball hog or that Hakeem wasn't ball dominant is just silly talk. Everyone knows those are true.  You should be focusing on why it doesn't matter because those guys were great players that won a lot of championships with the styles they played.  You should have been focusing on Kobe's ability to play with Shaq and then later Pau, Bynum, and Odom.  Or how Hakeem started his career with Sampson and then as the defending champion integrated a player like Drexler and still won the next title.  How the players you selected after those 2, would fit with those 2 HOFers.  Why you selected them and not arguing just for the sake of arguing when you are quite simply wrong on so many of those arguments?  The simple reality is when you make silly indefensible arguments you set yourself up to be countered and countered a lot.

I stated all thise things. Didnt matter.

I had to defend kobe since the pick od him

And for some idiotic reason had to defend hakeem. When guys who scored the same way like ewing and moses got free passes.

No its just become stupid and exhausting at this point.

Kobe is a ball hog that passes. And in his most ball hogging season recorded he has less time per possession than lebron that year. But that was ignored when i posted it.

And apparently now all stats are useless now.

Its just taken up entirely too much of my time.

I am done. Everyone wins. My team sucks.

Just leave me out of it please

You do bring a lot of it on yourself with the tone of your posts.  Just because people have criticisms of your team isn't an attack on you and it doesn't mean your team sucks. 
This is supposed to be a fun activity.  Don't take it so seriously. 

Personally I ranked your team 7th.   My limited familiarity with Dandridge and Debusscherre may have held you back a bit.

So sorry that the tone of my typing bothers some.

Has anyone asked why that might be?
Or has everyone just attacked out for it.

Perhaps my firat language isbt english and its hard to find the words or grammar sometimes when postting. Doesnt matter....im just rude

I dont care about the game. I have had far more concern with being attacked for things i posted that made sense to me that perhaps I either misspoke or missunderstood.

[KGs Knee]

Welp, it would be breaking with tradition if there wasn't at least one draft participant that lost their mind and their cool.  Always happens.  Always.

It's perversely entertaining as an observer.

[Somebody]

Welp, it would be breaking with tradition if there wasn't at least one draft participant that lost their mind and their cool.  Always happens.  Always.

It's perversely entertaining as an observer.

Having an open mind helps cool yourself down imo. I asked around for advice and thoroughly enjoyed the process after flubbing the Davis pick.