Brogdon + Golden State's 2024 Pick OR Jrue Holiday?

[Big333223]

I wonder about just how valuable a #10 pick in a draft everyone seems to hate really would be on the open market right now.

Either way, I like Jrue a lot more than Brogdon. I think Brogdon was a terrific 6th man but he needs to ball too much to work really well with the Jays. Jrue is much better at fitting in and making things work no matter is who on the floor.

And then defensively, it's not even close.

[jambr380]

I wonder about just how valuable a #10 pick in a draft everyone seems to hate really would be on the open market right now.

Either way, I like Jrue a lot more than Brogdon. I think Brogdon was a terrific 6th man but he needs to ball too much to work really well with the Jays. Jrue is much better at fitting in and making things work no matter is who on the floor.

And then defensively, it's not even close.

It's not necessarily about Brogdon (who is having a very good season), it's about who you might be able to get for him using that pick. Dejounte Murray, for instance, is younger and on a very good contract. Would Brogdon and the GSW pick be enough for him? If not, could we include our 2024 pick (#30 right now) instead of the 2029 pick? Would Rob definitely be out for the year?

I think most people really like Jrue, it's just that some of us think we overpaid. Imo, we very clearly overpaid for a 33 year old being paid a near max on an expiring contract, but that won't matter at all if we win a Title.

So, even though it is fun to discuss the GSW pick and the overall trade, we won't have a final analysis of the deal until the results are in over the next couple of years. It was an all-in trade - we have to win.

[Big333223]

I wonder about just how valuable a #10 pick in a draft everyone seems to hate really would be on the open market right now.

Either way, I like Jrue a lot more than Brogdon. I think Brogdon was a terrific 6th man but he needs to ball too much to work really well with the Jays. Jrue is much better at fitting in and making things work no matter is who on the floor.

And then defensively, it's not even close.

It's not necessarily about Brogdon (who is having a very good season), it's about who you might be able to get for him using that pick. Dejounte Murray, for instance, is younger and on a very good contract. Would Brogdon and the GSW pick be enough for him? If not, could we include our 2024 pick (#30 right now) instead of the 2029 pick? Would Rob definitely be out for the year?

I think most people really like Jrue, it's just that some of us think we overpaid. Imo, we very clearly overpaid for a 33 year old being paid a near max on an expiring contract, but that won't matter at all if we win a Title.

So, even though it is fun to discuss the GSW pick and the overall trade, we won't have a final analysis of the deal until the results are in over the next couple of years. It was an all-in trade - we have to win.

It's a good question and Dejounte is an interesting one to think about.

Dejounte is better than Jrue at this point but who would I rather have on the C's right now? Jrue is at least as good of a defender, a better shooter, and seems like he's better at fitting in without needing the ball in his hands (the Hawks just can not make it work with their 2 guards). And I think Jrue has a better attitude, too.

If the option was available to just swap out Jrue for Dejounte right now, I think I'd rather have Jrue.

And I'm not sure the GS pick is any more valuable now than it was then. No one seems to like this upcoming draft and I can't have been the only one who saw this year from GS coming.

[Surferdad]

100% would take Holiday. He plays better in a system and as an unselfish ball-mover than Brogdon. He also plays baseline a lot to free up Brown and Tatum out front. That added wrinkle has been really effective and Brogdon could not do it. This doesn't even mention his stellar defense against all 5 positions.

I get the point, but I don't care about the 10th overall pick. You are hoping to get a player as good as Holiday at that pick.

Also, you have to remember who we were bidding against to get him. He'd likely being in Miami right now if we didn't grab him.

This is an under appreciated benefit in this and other trades as well. More generally, I do wonder how much GM’s take this into consideration behind the scenes.

[celticsclay]

I wonder about just how valuable a #10 pick in a draft everyone seems to hate really would be on the open market right now.

Either way, I like Jrue a lot more than Brogdon. I think Brogdon was a terrific 6th man but he needs to ball too much to work really well with the Jays. Jrue is much better at fitting in and making things work no matter is who on the floor.

And then defensively, it's not even close.

I’m pretty into college basketball and also watch a good amount of euro ball. There is currently nobody in the draft that I am super excited about. I’m sure somebody will end up popping but everyone looks like they have a lot of developing to do.

[jay]

100% would take Holiday. He plays better in a system and as an unselfish ball-mover than Brogdon. He also plays baseline a lot to free up Brown and Tatum out front. That added wrinkle has been really effective and Brogdon could not do it. This doesn't even mention his stellar defense against all 5 positions.

I get the point, but I don't care about the 10th overall pick. You are hoping to get a player as good as Holiday at that pick.

Also, you have to remember who we were bidding against to get him. He'd likely being in Miami right now if we didn't grab him.

This is an under appreciated benefit in this and other trades as well. More generally, I do wonder how much GM’s take this into consideration behind the scenes.

One reason I want to go for Caruso. Keep him off of Philly/Miami/Milwaukee

[cman88]

100% would take Holiday. He plays better in a system and as an unselfish ball-mover than Brogdon. He also plays baseline a lot to free up Brown and Tatum out front. That added wrinkle has been really effective and Brogdon could not do it. This doesn't even mention his stellar defense against all 5 positions.

I get the point, but I don't care about the 10th overall pick. You are hoping to get a player as good as Holiday at that pick.

Also, you have to remember who we were bidding against to get him. He'd likely being in Miami right now if we didn't grab him.

This is an under appreciated benefit in this and other trades as well. More generally, I do wonder how much GM’s take this into consideration behind the scenes.

Or, he could be in Philly....imagine that.....

the KP trade is neutralized if milwaukee gets dame and Philly/miami get Jrue holiday. and we are just part of the pack fighting.

our defense wouldn't be as good either. the Jrue trade is really what put us back in the drivers seat in the east.

[Moranis]

100% would take Holiday. He plays better in a system and as an unselfish ball-mover than Brogdon. He also plays baseline a lot to free up Brown and Tatum out front. That added wrinkle has been really effective and Brogdon could not do it. This doesn't even mention his stellar defense against all 5 positions.

I get the point, but I don't care about the 10th overall pick. You are hoping to get a player as good as Holiday at that pick.

Also, you have to remember who we were bidding against to get him. He'd likely being in Miami right now if we didn't grab him.

This is an under appreciated benefit in this and other trades as well. More generally, I do wonder how much GM’s take this into consideration behind the scenes.

Sure but then they wouldn't have had Rozier. Obviously Jrue is better than Rozier, but they do provide different things and Rozier now makes it easier to trade Herro somewhere else for the Heat (since they still have a scoring guard).  Every move is always about the opportunity cost. Maybe Boston could have used the Jrue trade assets to land Siakam and maybe that works better than Jrue.  Or maybe not.  Who knows, that is part of what makes all of this fun.

[Phantom255x]

GSW's pick is currently projected at 14 so it's not as bad now

[cman88]

Miami or Philly with Jrue and Boston with only brogdon means we are not clear and away the best team in the East. we are just "one of the pack"

it was adding Jrue to this roster that put us over the top. this whole discussion is pointless. if Jrue is the missing piece to win a championship who cares...

did we overpay? probably. but i'm tired of fans always looking towards "the future" instead of right now. its why we always complained Wyc wasn't making moves because they were too concerned with contending in the future.

[Vermont Green]

I don't look at this as Brogdon vs. Holiday, Holiday is a better player and we are better for sure with Holiday.  If the result was that we just kept the pick (it is #13 right now and may not stay in the lottery), then yes, we are better with Holiday than Brogdon and a pick.  But we also could have traded the 2 picks (don't forget we owe an unprotected 2029 first) and Rob Williams for something pretty good.  Brogdon + a decent player may have been just fine or better than just Holiday.  We have Holiday so that is a done deal and another trade is hypothetical, but there is an opportunity cost you have to account for.

[Celtics2021]

Miami or Philly with Jrue and Boston with only brogdon means we are not clear and away the best team in the East. we are just "one of the pack"

it was adding Jrue to this roster that put us over the top. this whole discussion is pointless. if Jrue is the missing piece to win a championship who cares...

did we overpay? probably. but i'm tired of fans always looking towards "the future" instead of right now. its why we always complained Wyc wasn't making moves because they were too concerned with contending in the future.

Seriously.  We got the summer of fireworks we had long been promised, and now some are worried that the fireworks were too expensive.  As Brad said after either the KP trade or the Jrue trade (or both) “You have to give good to get good.”

[Donoghus]

Miami or Philly with Jrue and Boston with only brogdon means we are not clear and away the best team in the East. we are just "one of the pack"

it was adding Jrue to this roster that put us over the top. this whole discussion is pointless. if Jrue is the missing piece to win a championship who cares...

did we overpay? probably. but i'm tired of fans always looking towards "the future" instead of right now. its why we always complained Wyc wasn't making moves because they were too concerned with contending in the future.

Seriously.  We got the summer of fireworks we had long been promised, and now some are worried that the fireworks were too expensive.  As Brad said after either the KP trade or the Jrue trade (or both) “You have to give good to get good.”

Bingo. 

I said it in the game thread last night, this is a special season.  Savor it.  They don't come around very often.  The future is actually looking pretty good too but no need to dwell on it.  Live in the moment.  This team is quite possibly winning the title come June. 

[Vermont Green]

Miami or Philly with Jrue and Boston with only brogdon means we are not clear and away the best team in the East. we are just "one of the pack"

it was adding Jrue to this roster that put us over the top. this whole discussion is pointless. if Jrue is the missing piece to win a championship who cares...

did we overpay? probably. but i'm tired of fans always looking towards "the future" instead of right now. its why we always complained Wyc wasn't making moves because they were too concerned with contending in the future.

Seriously.  We got the summer of fireworks we had long been promised, and now some are worried that the fireworks were too expensive.  As Brad said after either the KP trade or the Jrue trade (or both) “You have to give good to get good.”

Bingo. 

I said it in the game thread last night, this is a special season.  Savor it.  They don't come around very often.  The future is actually looking pretty good too but no need to dwell on it.  Live in the moment.  This team is quite possibly winning the title come June.

There are really 3 different trades that involved players that are now part of our starting 5, White, Porzingis, Holiday.  You can like each trade, like the trade but feel we overpaid, or you can not like the trade.

With White, I liked the trade but felt we overpaid.  Many were fretting about the future first round pick and that was a swap, not even just an unprotected.  White has surpassed my expectations and it doesn't feel like an overpay any more to me.

The Porzingis trade was a steal.  I love Marcus, but we needed a skilled big far more than we needed a combo guard.  And we got 2 picks in the transaction.

When you get to the Holiday trade, we gave up more (as compared to the other trades), Holiday is on a less favorable contract (part of why we had to give up more), and he is not nearly the upgrade over Brogdon as Porzingis is over Smart, due largely to the fact that Porzingis plays a position where there was far greater need.  And overall, I am not sure he is better than White (who we got for a lot less).

At the time of the trade, Rob Williams had value.  Brogdon has value.  The two first round picks have value.  Even if you still feel we "won" the trade, you have to concede that of the 3, it is the trade that we won by the least amount.  I feel like the trade is kind of a wash.  I feel if we had Brogdon and what we could have gotten for Williams and two picks, that we would not be worse off.  I am happy with the trade, I like Holiday, but I don't feel like this was a massive winning trade, at least not so far.  I reserve the right to change my mind if Holiday wins us some playoff games.

[Roy H.]

Miami or Philly with Jrue and Boston with only brogdon means we are not clear and away the best team in the East. we are just "one of the pack"

it was adding Jrue to this roster that put us over the top. this whole discussion is pointless. if Jrue is the missing piece to win a championship who cares...

did we overpay? probably. but i'm tired of fans always looking towards "the future" instead of right now. its why we always complained Wyc wasn't making moves because they were too concerned with contending in the future.

Seriously.  We got the summer of fireworks we had long been promised, and now some are worried that the fireworks were too expensive.  As Brad said after either the KP trade or the Jrue trade (or both) “You have to give good to get good.”

Bingo. 

I said it in the game thread last night, this is a special season.  Savor it.  They don't come around very often.  The future is actually looking pretty good too but no need to dwell on it.  Live in the moment.  This team is quite possibly winning the title come June.

There are really 3 different trades that involved players that are now part of our starting 5, White, Porzingis, Holiday.  You can like each trade, like the trade but feel we overpaid, or you can not like the trade.

With White, I liked the trade but felt we overpaid.  Many were fretting about the future first round pick and that was a swap, not even just an unprotected.  White has surpassed my expectations and it doesn't feel like an overpay any more to me.

The Porzingis trade was a steal.  I love Marcus, but we needed a skilled big far more than we needed a combo guard.  And we got 2 picks in the transaction.

When you get to the Holiday trade, we gave up more (as compared to the other trades), Holiday is on a less favorable contract (part of why we had to give up more), and he is not nearly the upgrade over Brogdon as Porzingis is over Smart, due largely to the fact that Porzingis plays a position where there was far greater need.  And overall, I am not sure he is better than White (who we got for a lot less).

At the time of the trade, Rob Williams had value.  Brogdon has value.  The two first round picks have value.  Even if you still feel we "won" the trade, you have to concede that of the 3, it is the trade that we won by the least amount.  I feel like the trade is kind of a wash.  I feel if we had Brogdon and what we could have gotten for Williams and two picks, that we would not be worse off.  I am happy with the trade, I like Holiday, but I don't feel like this was a massive winning trade, at least not so far.  I reserve the right to change my mind if Holiday wins us some playoff games.

What do you think was out there for an injured Timelord plus two picks, particularly if you weren't packaging Brogdon in that deal?