Luka doesn't make those around him better.

[liam]

Hakeem made it out of the first round once before going all the way and had to wait for Jordan to retire to win a championship.
&c.

Not to detract from the point. I just want to give Hakeem his due. He made it out of the first round 3 times before winning a title. He had the Finals run 1986. Then he had two series against Seattle in the second round that went 6 & 7 games. One in 1993. The other in 1987 or 1988 I think. Not sure which year. Both were great series.

They were a contender already in 1993 but were unlucky against Seattle. Very close series.

Seattle always had their number. Beat them twice in the late 80s, 1993 and again in 1996 (sweep). 4 times they beat Hakeem. Never lost to him.

That 86 Houston team would've won a championship in most other years but they ran up against the best basketball team I have ever seen.

[obnoxiousmime]

While he's probably not the most unbiased source, here's what Grant Williams said the other night:

“It’s great to get a win for the city and play for the jersey that’s across your chest, not on your back,” Williams told reporters as transcribed by MassLive’s Brian Robb. “Everybody touched the ball, we trusted one another, a team that never played, practiced together, every single person seemed like they had each other’s back.”

To be fair, Grant said something similar in his introductory presser in Dallas.

Reporter: "You've been with other organizations, how would you describe the difference in the vibe, what you've seen so far, in the last couple days?"

Grant: "The best part about this organization is everyone is authentically themselves. It's a very calm, relaxing, and chill organization while also being disciplined. And understanding that the priority is winning, but also you can have a good time while doing it. And, everyone here really supports one another, and that's something really key in my eyes. You can come in and basically it feels like a family. You feel like each one of us is embraced to be authentically ourselves, and it feels organic. Everyone feels very valued, and they make sure not only just the top guys get valued but through players top to bottom. It's very special to be a part of."

I don't doubt that Luka is hard to play with, but he's also very young still. It's not written in stone that he'll end up more like James Harden than LeBron James (not counting the defense part, he just has certain physical limitations he won't ever be able to totally overcome).

Also, quite frankly he's played on a lot less talented teams than other superstars. Porzingis isn't the same player now as he was in Dallas. Brunson is now a better player than he was in Dallas as well. If you put Luka on the Celtics right now and Tatum on the Mavericks, is any Celtics fan seriously going to argue that there would be a huge difference in record just because Tatum is a two-way player and Luka isn't?

I just think that sometimes we don't have to put down other stars just to prop up our own. Besides, the Mavericks are 32-23 in a tougher conference this year and with Kyrie missing a ton of games, a rookie center in Lively II, and Grant being out of shape. He's playing with guys like Josh Green, Hardaway Jr., Dante Exum, and Derrick Jones Jr. These are absolute scrub lineups.

[liam]

While he's probably not the most unbiased source, here's what Grant Williams said the other night:

“It’s great to get a win for the city and play for the jersey that’s across your chest, not on your back,” Williams told reporters as transcribed by MassLive’s Brian Robb. “Everybody touched the ball, we trusted one another, a team that never played, practiced together, every single person seemed like they had each other’s back.”

To be fair, Grant said something similar in his introductory presser in Dallas.

Reporter: "You've been with other organizations, how would you describe the difference in the vibe, what you've seen so far, in the last couple days?"

Grant: "The best part about this organization is everyone is authentically themselves. It's a very calm, relaxing, and chill organization while also being disciplined. And understanding that the priority is winning, but also you can have a good time while doing it. And, everyone here really supports one another, and that's something really key in my eyes. You can come in and basically it feels like a family. You feel like each one of us is embraced to be authentically ourselves, and it feels organic. Everyone feels very valued, and they make sure not only just the top guys get valued but through players top to bottom. It's very special to be a part of."

I don't doubt that Luka is hard to play with, but he's also very young still. It's not written in stone that he'll end up more like James Harden than LeBron James (not counting the defense part, he just has certain physical limitations he won't ever be able to totally overcome).

Also, quite frankly he's played on a lot less talented teams than other superstars. Porzingis isn't the same player now as he was in Dallas. Brunson is now a better player than he was in Dallas as well. If you put Luka on the Celtics right now and Tatum on the Mavericks, is any Celtics fan seriously going to argue that there would be a huge difference in record just because Tatum is a two-way player and Luka isn't?

I just think that sometimes we don't have to put down other stars just to prop up our own. Besides, the Mavericks are 32-23 in a tougher conference this year and with Kyrie missing a ton of games, a rookie center in Lively II, and Grant being out of shape. He's playing with guys like Josh Green, Hardaway Jr., Dante Exum, and Derrick Jones Jr. These are absolute scrub lineups.

Have you seen Josh Green play? Luka could've been playing with KP and Brunson... Luka also has Kyrie..

[Phantom255x]

Let me ask people this. Put Trae Young in Dallas and Luka in Atlanta. How much better or worse do you think each team is and do you think it's by a significant margin?

My opinion? Luka > Young but I don't think the Hawks or Mavs' records would be significantly different. Luka has made a WCF, and Trae has made an ECF as well. People forget that. Frankly, the Mavs and Hawks are both middle of the pack teams. Dallas is a little better with a slightly better roster, and yes Luka is better than Young but I don't think it's by a massive margin as others. Young is bad defensively but so does Luka.

I also think there's something to be said that Luka couldn't make it work with Porzingis and others like Brunson, DFS, etc. Miraculously Kyrie is working out in Dallas but still, how far is that getting them?

[liam]

Let me ask people this. Put Trae Young in Dallas and Luka in Atlanta. How much better or worse do you think each team is and do you think it's by a significant margin?

My opinion? Luka > Young but I don't think the Hawks or Mavs' records would be significantly different. Luka has made a WCF, and Trae has made an ECF as well. People forget that. Frankly, the Mavs and Hawks are both middle of the pack teams. Dallas is a little better with a slightly better roster, and yes Luka is better than Young but I don't think it's by a massive margin as others. Young is bad defensively but so does Luka.

I also think there's something to be said that Luka couldn't make it work with Porzingis and others like Brunson, DFS, etc. Miraculously Kyrie is working out in Dallas but still, how far is that getting them?

You couldn't play Kyrie and Young together. I think Dallas has the better team if you take Luka and Young off of those teams. I think if you switch the two the Hawks get better and Dallas gets worse. Trae is massively overrated. I think D White is a better player than Young and I think White deserved an All Star slot. I think that the bottom of the East is much weaker than the bottom half of the West.

[Moranis]

I'd take Atlanta's roster any day of the week over the Mavs roster if you took Luka and Trae off the teams.  Not even close even with the additions of Washington and Gafford.

[liam]

I'd take Atlanta's roster any day of the week over the Mavs roster if you took Luka and Trae off the teams.  Not even close even with the additions of Washington and Gafford

The Best player after Trae and Luka is Kyrie and it isn't close. I think Kyrie is better than Trae. Who is Atlanta's second best player?

[Moranis]

I'd take Atlanta's roster any day of the week over the Mavs roster if you took Luka and Trae off the teams.  Not even close even with the additions of Washington and Gafford

The Best player after Trae and Luka is Kyrie and it isn't close. I think Kyrie is better than Trae.

and the next 5 players after that are all Hawks. And Kyrie misses a third of the games.the Hawks have a significantly better roster than the Mavs

[liam]

I'd take Atlanta's roster any day of the week over the Mavs roster if you took Luka and Trae off the teams.  Not even close even with the additions of Washington and Gafford

The Best player after Trae and Luka is Kyrie and it isn't close. I think Kyrie is better than Trae.

and the next 5 players after that are all Hawks. And Kyrie misses a third of the games.the Hawks have a significantly better roster than the Mavs

Who are they?

[Who]

I'd take Atlanta's roster any day of the week over the Mavs roster if you took Luka and Trae off the teams.  Not even close even with the additions of Washington and Gafford.

Hmmm ...

Atlanta

G: Dejounte Murray, Patty Mills, Kobe Bufkin
G: Bogdanovic, AJ Griffin
F: Seddiq Bey, DeAndre Hunter, Wes Matthews
F: Jalen Johnson
C: Clint Capela, Okongwu

Dallas

G: Kyrie Irving, Dante Exum
G: Josh Green, Jalen Hardy
F: Tim Hardaway Jr, OM Prosper
F: PJ Washington, Derrick Jones Jr
C: D Lively II, D Gafford

Thoughts

The center rotation looks fairly even.

Jalen Johnson is the best PF of the bunch. Advantage ATL. Dallas has no real SFs without Luka. Atlanta has mediocre SFs but mediocre is better bad. Advantage ATL.

Not sure what to make of the SG spot. Leaning Atlanta. I like Dallas' two young guys. Not a big Bogdanovic guy. That is probably why I am not stronger in Atlanta's favour here. Lean Atlanta. Advantage ATL.

Point guard. Kyrie or Dejounte. I like Exum as the best backup here. Kyrie is the superior individual talent. I hesitate on Murray because he has improved his 3 ball a lot this year. More well rounded player than Kyrie. Kyrie is a phenomenal scorer but so poor otherwise. I'll go Kyrie but it's close. Advantage DAL.

So Dallas better at one position. Atlanta at 3. Even in one.

[liam]

I'd take Atlanta's roster any day of the week over the Mavs roster if you took Luka and Trae off the teams.  Not even close even with the additions of Washington and Gafford.

Hmmm ...

Atlanta

G: Dejounte Murray, Patty Mills, Kobe Bufkin
G: Bogdanovic, AJ Griffin
F: Seddiq Bey, DeAndre Hunter, Wes Matthews
F: Jalen Johnson
C: Clint Capela, Okongwu

Dallas

G: Kyrie Irving, Dante Exum
G: Josh Green, Jalen Hardy
F: Tim Hardaway Jr, OM Prosper
F: PJ Washington, Derrick Jones Jr
C: D Lively II, D Gafford

Thoughts

The center rotation looks fairly even.

Jalen Johnson is the best PF of the bunch. Advantage ATL. Dallas has no real SFs without Luka. Atlanta has mediocre SFs but mediocre is better bad. Advantage ATL.

Not sure what to make of the SG spot. Leaning Atlanta. I like Dallas' two young guys. Not a big Bogdanovic guy. That is probably why I am not stronger in Atlanta's favour here. Lean Atlanta. Advantage ATL.

Point guard. Kyrie or Dejounte. I like Exum as the best backup here. Kyrie is the superior individual talent. Advantage DAL.

So Dallas better at one position. Atlanta at 3. Even in one.

If I could grab one guy off both rosters I take Josh Green.

[Who]

I'd take Atlanta's roster any day of the week over the Mavs roster if you took Luka and Trae off the teams.  Not even close even with the additions of Washington and Gafford.

Hmmm ...

Atlanta

G: Dejounte Murray, Patty Mills, Kobe Bufkin
G: Bogdanovic, AJ Griffin
F: Seddiq Bey, DeAndre Hunter, Wes Matthews
F: Jalen Johnson
C: Clint Capela, Okongwu

Dallas

G: Kyrie Irving, Dante Exum
G: Josh Green, Jalen Hardy
F: Tim Hardaway Jr, OM Prosper
F: PJ Washington, Derrick Jones Jr
C: D Lively II, D Gafford

Thoughts

The center rotation looks fairly even.

Jalen Johnson is the best PF of the bunch. Advantage ATL. Dallas has no real SFs without Luka. Atlanta has mediocre SFs but mediocre is better bad. Advantage ATL.

Not sure what to make of the SG spot. Leaning Atlanta. I like Dallas' two young guys. Not a big Bogdanovic guy. That is probably why I am not stronger in Atlanta's favour here. Lean Atlanta. Advantage ATL.

Point guard. Kyrie or Dejounte. I like Exum as the best backup here. Kyrie is the superior individual talent. Advantage DAL.

So Dallas better at one position. Atlanta at 3. Even in one.

If I could grab one guy off both rosters I take Josh Green.

Can you explain that?

[Who]

I like Josh Green. I am not sure there is much upside there though. He is a nice role player. Smart. Skilled. His lack of physical talent hurts him on defense. A below average defender who does enough to get by but not more.

Seems ideal as a bench guard and passable as a starter. Can he be more than that?

[liam]

I like Josh Green. I am not sure there is much upside there though. He is a nice role player. Smart. Skilled. His lack of physical talent hurts him on defense. A below average defender who does enough to get by but not more.

Seems ideal as a bench guard and passable as a starter. Can he be more than that?

Hard to predict how he ends up but he has some skill. 41% from 3 this year.

[Who]

If Luka and Trae switched places, ATL would be nasty.

G: Dejounte Murray, Patty Mills, Kobe Bufkin
G: Bogdanovic, AJ Griffin
F: Luka Doncic, Seddiq Bey, Wes Matthews
F: Jalen Johnson, DeAndre Hunter
C: Clint Capela, Okongwu

That team would be a title contender in the East.

Very similar to his Dallas team but with a legit defensive PF in Jalen Johnson. Similar to what Luka had with Finney Smith. That is the piece that Dallas lacks most.

Dejounte Murray gives him a big defensive PG. Not the shooter Kyrie is though. Overall much more defensive help with Dejounte & Jalen Johnson.