CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: rollie mass on December 03, 2017, 01:28:52 PM
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Winslow for all those draft choices-
Danny getting Jaylen was something he wanted going back to Jeff Green a long, strong, athletic wing player.
Jaylen has super quick twitch and I think his dribbling skills will eventually catch up to where he wants to go
He is after all only 21 and now his jumper sure looks nice.
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Hey Rollie,
As you know, I'm a fan of your posts, generally.
But I must give you the dubious award today for having the biggest disconnect between Subject Heading and content of your OP.
Totally lost on me, bro.
Cheers,
Footey
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Hey Rollie,
As you know, I'm a fan of your posts, generally.
But I must give you the dubious award today for having the biggest disconnect between Subject Heading and content of your OP.
Totally lost on me, bro.
Cheers,
Footey
I think I follow this one. Danny tried to trade 4 picks to move up to get Winslow. Thankfully that didn't happen. Can't recall but one of those picks may have been the pick we used to take Jaylen. So get lucky a trade doesn't happen and then get a better player at the same position.
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If he had made that trade ,we wouldn't have Jaylen and maybe not Rozier, Tatum and Kyrie
Danny wanted a Winslow type and it was Jaylen at number three-Remember the reaction.
Winslow as it turns out isn't that good.TOO straight line not as quick as Jaylen or athletic AND Jaylen can shoot better
I must think like Kyrie
The best non trade -giving up all those picks
Winslow vs Jaylen
The only reason it didn't happen was Jordan wanting Kaminsky-Therefore Reds phrase -Danny is lucky.
TP to TAZZ
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20 is relatively advanced in terms of basketball development. I think brown can improve his handle some but don’t see it ever being a strength. It will take a big effort for his handle to be average and likely will stay below average as far as star wings go.
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Hey Rollie,
As you know, I'm a fan of your posts, generally.
But I must give you the dubious award today for having the biggest disconnect between Subject Heading and content of your OP.
Totally lost on me, bro.
Cheers,
Footey
I think I follow this one. Danny tried to trade 4 picks to move up to get Winslow. Thankfully that didn't happen. Can't recall but one of those picks may have been the pick we used to take Jaylen. So get lucky a trade doesn't happen and then get a better player at the same position.
That Danny offered 4 first round picks for Winslow is (a) unsubstantiated, and (b) even if technically true, was never suggested that it involved any of the Nets' picks. The fact is we had so many 1st round picks stockpiled at that point (2 of which were later used to take Rozier and Hunter; the other two could have been Memphis and/or Dallas (Yabusele) and/or our own (Zizic)). I seriously doubt Danny would have risked any Net pick on Winslow. Show me a Danny quote where he said he offered one and I will shut up.
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If he had made that trade ,we wouldn't have Jaylen and maybe not Rozier, Tatum and Kyrie
Danny wanted a Winslow type and it was Jaylen at number three-Remember the reaction.
Winslow as it turns out isn't that good.TOO straight line not as quick as Jaylen or athletic AND Jaylen can shoot better
I must think like Kyrie
The best non trade -giving up all those picks
Winslow vs Jaylen
The only reason it didn't happen was Jordan wanting Kaminsky-Therefore reds phrase -Danny is lucky.
TP to TAZZ
See my response to TAZZ. Urban legend.
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20 is relatively advanced in terms of basketball development. I think brown can improve his handle some but don’t see it ever being a strength. It will take a big effort for his handle to be average and likely will stay below average as far as star wings go.
I think Jaylen is 21. Bradley has improved his handle, which was really bad, until it looks pretty decent with Detroit. Players tend to improve until 28b or so. The Great players get better every year until they breakdown physically.
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There was no mention of all first rounders by me-the point was we wound up with Jaylen not Winslow and Danny did say he got carried away.
Sorry i did give you a complimentary TP and i do agree that sometimes i take libeties with my posts.I have been oblivious to those that don't have access to information and i do take leaps
I have been following Winslow and Jaylen is scoring and shooting better and is more versatile on defense.I had just read an article on Danny's drafting and that failed move up wasn't addressed'.
The Celtics landscape would now be totally different if that trade had gone through.Just look at the change from last season-The number of different scenarios is mind boggling
'I like the team we have, so no if only's from me-only a Danny is LUCKY
Jaylen was 21 on Oct 25,2017
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Hey Rollie,
As you know, I'm a fan of your posts, generally.
But I must give you the dubious award today for having the biggest disconnect between Subject Heading and content of your OP.
Totally lost on me, bro.
Cheers,
Footey
I think I follow this one. Danny tried to trade 4 picks to move up to get Winslow. Thankfully that didn't happen. Can't recall but one of those picks may have been the pick we used to take Jaylen. So get lucky a trade doesn't happen and then get a better player at the same position.
That Danny offered 4 first round picks for Winslow is (a) unsubstantiated, and (b) even if technically true, was never suggested that it involved any of the Nets' picks. The fact is we had so many 1st round picks stockpiled at that point (2 of which were later used to take Rozier and Hunter; the other two could have been Memphis and/or Dallas (Yabusele) and/or our own (Zizic)). I seriously doubt Danny would have risked any Net pick on Winslow. Show me a Danny quote where he said he offered one and I will shut up.
Zach Lowe disagrees:
"Boston put Charlotte on the other end of a quantity-for-quality pitch," writes Lowe. "The Celtics offered four first-round picks for the chance to move up from No. 16 to No. 9: that 16th pick, No. 15 (acquired in a prearranged contingency deal with the Hawks), one unprotected future Brooklyn pick, and a future first-rounder from either the Grizzlies or Timberwolves, per sources familiar with the talks."
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/good-charlotte-the-hornets-and-the-sliding-scale-of-nba-mediocrity/
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Rollie you did wow us with this one. We were blessed not to make the Winslow trade for sure.Brown and Tatum are studs. We may be getting better picks from Memphis and the Clippers. LA Pick looks promising for us next year. Our future is bright we will have a new All Star on our team next year too.
Thanks Rollie for your post I come here to see them everyday.
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Hey Rollie,
As you know, I'm a fan of your posts, generally.
But I must give you the dubious award today for having the biggest disconnect between Subject Heading and content of your OP.
Totally lost on me, bro.
Cheers,
Footey
I think I follow this one. Danny tried to trade 4 picks to move up to get Winslow. Thankfully that didn't happen. Can't recall but one of those picks may have been the pick we used to take Jaylen. So get lucky a trade doesn't happen and then get a better player at the same position.
That Danny offered 4 first round picks for Winslow is (a) unsubstantiated, and (b) even if technically true, was never suggested that it involved any of the Nets' picks. The fact is we had so many 1st round picks stockpiled at that point (2 of which were later used to take Rozier and Hunter; the other two could have been Memphis and/or Dallas (Yabusele) and/or our own (Zizic)). I seriously doubt Danny would have risked any Net pick on Winslow. Show me a Danny quote where he said he offered one and I will shut up.
Zach Lowe disagrees:
"Boston put Charlotte on the other end of a quantity-for-quality pitch," writes Lowe. "The Celtics offered four first-round picks for the chance to move up from No. 16 to No. 9: that 16th pick, No. 15 (acquired in a prearranged contingency deal with the Hawks), one unprotected future Brooklyn pick, and a future first-rounder from either the Grizzlies or Timberwolves, per sources familiar with the talks."
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/good-charlotte-the-hornets-and-the-sliding-scale-of-nba-mediocrity/
Maybe I am forgetting, but when did they have a future first from Minny?
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What has Winslow been doing recently? Almost forgot about him completely tbh... :o
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Hey Rollie,
As you know, I'm a fan of your posts, generally.
But I must give you the dubious award today for having the biggest disconnect between Subject Heading and content of your OP.
Totally lost on me, bro.
Cheers,
Footey
I think I follow this one. Danny tried to trade 4 picks to move up to get Winslow. Thankfully that didn't happen. Can't recall but one of those picks may have been the pick we used to take Jaylen. So get lucky a trade doesn't happen and then get a better player at the same position.
That Danny offered 4 first round picks for Winslow is (a) unsubstantiated, and (b) even if technically true, was never suggested that it involved any of the Nets' picks. The fact is we had so many 1st round picks stockpiled at that point (2 of which were later used to take Rozier and Hunter; the other two could have been Memphis and/or Dallas (Yabusele) and/or our own (Zizic)). I seriously doubt Danny would have risked any Net pick on Winslow. Show me a Danny quote where he said he offered one and I will shut up.
Zach Lowe disagrees:
"Boston put Charlotte on the other end of a quantity-for-quality pitch," writes Lowe. "The Celtics offered four first-round picks for the chance to move up from No. 16 to No. 9: that 16th pick, No. 15 (acquired in a prearranged contingency deal with the Hawks), one unprotected future Brooklyn pick, and a future first-rounder from either the Grizzlies or Timberwolves, per sources familiar with the talks."
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/good-charlotte-the-hornets-and-the-sliding-scale-of-nba-mediocrity/
Danny tried to trade with several teams in the top 10 that year. Afterwards he said, he'd probably offered to much.
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Rather than pure luck, maybe it was a case of fear of being duped by Danny. Thankfully, that didn't stop Philly this off-season.
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Hey Rollie,
As you know, I'm a fan of your posts, generally.
But I must give you the dubious award today for having the biggest disconnect between Subject Heading and content of your OP.
Totally lost on me, bro.
Cheers,
Footey
I think I follow this one. Danny tried to trade 4 picks to move up to get Winslow. Thankfully that didn't happen. Can't recall but one of those picks may have been the pick we used to take Jaylen. So get lucky a trade doesn't happen and then get a better player at the same position.
That Danny offered 4 first round picks for Winslow is (a) unsubstantiated, and (b) even if technically true, was never suggested that it involved any of the Nets' picks. The fact is we had so many 1st round picks stockpiled at that point (2 of which were later used to take Rozier and Hunter; the other two could have been Memphis and/or Dallas (Yabusele) and/or our own (Zizic)). I seriously doubt Danny would have risked any Net pick on Winslow. Show me a Danny quote where he said he offered one and I will shut up.
Zach Lowe disagrees:
"Boston put Charlotte on the other end of a quantity-for-quality pitch," writes Lowe. "The Celtics offered four first-round picks for the chance to move up from No. 16 to No. 9: that 16th pick, No. 15 (acquired in a prearranged contingency deal with the Hawks), one unprotected future Brooklyn pick, and a future first-rounder from either the Grizzlies or Timberwolves, per sources familiar with the talks."
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/good-charlotte-the-hornets-and-the-sliding-scale-of-nba-mediocrity/
Danny tried to trade with several teams in the top 10 that year. Afterwards he said, he'd probably offered to much.
Turner was the prize at that 9-10-11 position.
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Hey Rollie,
As you know, I'm a fan of your posts, generally.
But I must give you the dubious award today for having the biggest disconnect between Subject Heading and content of your OP.
Totally lost on me, bro.
Cheers,
Footey
I think I follow this one. Danny tried to trade 4 picks to move up to get Winslow. Thankfully that didn't happen. Can't recall but one of those picks may have been the pick we used to take Jaylen. So get lucky a trade doesn't happen and then get a better player at the same position.
That Danny offered 4 first round picks for Winslow is (a) unsubstantiated, and (b) even if technically true, was never suggested that it involved any of the Nets' picks. The fact is we had so many 1st round picks stockpiled at that point (2 of which were later used to take Rozier and Hunter; the other two could have been Memphis and/or Dallas (Yabusele) and/or our own (Zizic)). I seriously doubt Danny would have risked any Net pick on Winslow. Show me a Danny quote where he said he offered one and I will shut up.
Zach Lowe disagrees:
"Boston put Charlotte on the other end of a quantity-for-quality pitch," writes Lowe. "The Celtics offered four first-round picks for the chance to move up from No. 16 to No. 9: that 16th pick, No. 15 (acquired in a prearranged contingency deal with the Hawks), one unprotected future Brooklyn pick, and a future first-rounder from either the Grizzlies or Timberwolves, per sources familiar with the talks."
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/good-charlotte-the-hornets-and-the-sliding-scale-of-nba-mediocrity/
Maybe I am forgetting, but when did they have a future first from Minny?
got it from Phoenix in the Brandan Wright trade. It became 2 seconds one of which was Semi
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I've always thought that we were lucky this trade never happened. It was probably the stupidest thing Danny ever tried to do.
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I've always thought that we were lucky this trade never happened. It was probably the stupidest thing Danny ever tried to do.
who knows, maybe here Winslow reaches his potential.
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I've always thought that we were lucky this trade never happened. It was probably the stupidest thing Danny ever tried to do.
who knows, maybe here Winslow reaches his potential.
Its looking more and more that Winslow's ceiling is Jae crowder...euuwh
Danny dodge a missile there if you ask me...even Rozier who Danny was giving up then is turning out to be very serviceable than Justise Winslow.
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I've always thought that we were lucky this trade never happened. It was probably the stupidest thing Danny ever tried to do.
who knows, maybe here Winslow reaches his potential.
Its looking more and more that Winslow's ceiling is Jae crowder...euuwh
Danny dodge a missile there if you ask me...even Rozier who Danny was giving up then is turning out to be very serviceable than Justise Winslow.
winslow had a major injury though. If he doesn't have that, who knows what his ceiling would have been
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I've always thought that we were lucky this trade never happened. It was probably the stupidest thing Danny ever tried to do.
who knows, maybe here Winslow reaches his potential.
Its looking more and more that Winslow's ceiling is Jae crowder...euuwh
Danny dodge a missile there if you ask me...even Rozier who Danny was giving up then is turning out to be very serviceable than Justise Winslow.
Just curious, how did you come to that conclusion? Entirely two different games overall, also Winslow has better handles, and tougher transition game...
“You can see that he brings something that’s unique, his aggressiveness off the dribble in transition as a runner,” Spoelstra said of Winslow, who dropped about 10 pounds this offseason. “He’s an energy player. Defensively, [he can guard] one through four. So his game is about speed, physicality. He lost some weight and that makes him even quicker in all those areas in the open court and in random situations.”
Anyways, I'm not entirely convinced someone like Winslow's ceiling can be determined. He's an absolutely unique player that fits the mold like Draymond. Can defend 1-4, great perimeter defender, and can crash the boards, and run in transition while being an secondary play maker.
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Hey Rollie,
As you know, I'm a fan of your posts, generally.
But I must give you the dubious award today for having the biggest disconnect between Subject Heading and content of your OP.
Totally lost on me, bro.
Cheers,
Footey
I think I follow this one. Danny tried to trade 4 picks to move up to get Winslow. Thankfully that didn't happen. Can't recall but one of those picks may have been the pick we used to take Jaylen. So get lucky a trade doesn't happen and then get a better player at the same position.
That Danny offered 4 first round picks for Winslow is (a) unsubstantiated, and (b) even if technically true, was never suggested that it involved any of the Nets' picks. The fact is we had so many 1st round picks stockpiled at that point (2 of which were later used to take Rozier and Hunter; the other two could have been Memphis and/or Dallas (Yabusele) and/or our own (Zizic)). I seriously doubt Danny would have risked any Net pick on Winslow. Show me a Danny quote where he said he offered one and I will shut up.
Zach Lowe disagrees:
"Boston put Charlotte on the other end of a quantity-for-quality pitch," writes Lowe. "The Celtics offered four first-round picks for the chance to move up from No. 16 to No. 9: that 16th pick, No. 15 (acquired in a prearranged contingency deal with the Hawks), one unprotected future Brooklyn pick, and a future first-rounder from either the Grizzlies or Timberwolves, per sources familiar with the talks."
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/good-charlotte-the-hornets-and-the-sliding-scale-of-nba-mediocrity/
I still think this was actually the offer to try to move up to 3 or 4, and because it was assumed we were after Winslow with the 3rd or 4th pick, it was also assumed we would make the same type of offer to the Hornets/Bobcats considering our 'prize' was still there in Winslow. That offer is so extreme just to move up 5-6 spots. I wonder if Porzingis was actually the one we were targeting considering we were rumored in really liking him if he came out in the 2014 draft instead of 2015.
I don't doubt we offered 15, 16, and a future BKN pick to a team in the lottery, and I don't doubt we were talking to Charlotte, but I do doubt that offer was made to Charlotte. Seems like a more appropriate offer to the Knicks with their 4th pick which we were also rumored in wanting at the time IIRC.
It wouldn't surprise me if something got lost in translation with all the teams Ainge was talking to in an attempt to consolidate and move up.
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Hey Rollie,
As you know, I'm a fan of your posts, generally.
But I must give you the dubious award today for having the biggest disconnect between Subject Heading and content of your OP.
Totally lost on me, bro.
Cheers,
Footey
I think I follow this one. Danny tried to trade 4 picks to move up to get Winslow. Thankfully that didn't happen. Can't recall but one of those picks may have been the pick we used to take Jaylen. So get lucky a trade doesn't happen and then get a better player at the same position.
That Danny offered 4 first round picks for Winslow is (a) unsubstantiated, and (b) even if technically true, was never suggested that it involved any of the Nets' picks. The fact is we had so many 1st round picks stockpiled at that point (2 of which were later used to take Rozier and Hunter; the other two could have been Memphis and/or Dallas (Yabusele) and/or our own (Zizic)). I seriously doubt Danny would have risked any Net pick on Winslow. Show me a Danny quote where he said he offered one and I will shut up.
Zach Lowe disagrees:
"Boston put Charlotte on the other end of a quantity-for-quality pitch," writes Lowe. "The Celtics offered four first-round picks for the chance to move up from No. 16 to No. 9: that 16th pick, No. 15 (acquired in a prearranged contingency deal with the Hawks), one unprotected future Brooklyn pick, and a future first-rounder from either the Grizzlies or Timberwolves, per sources familiar with the talks."
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/good-charlotte-the-hornets-and-the-sliding-scale-of-nba-mediocrity/
I still think this was actually the offer to try to move up to 3 or 4, and because it was assumed we were after Winslow with the 3rd or 4th pick, it was also assumed we would make the same type of offer to the Hornets/Bobcats considering our 'prize' was still there in Winslow. That offer is so extreme just to move up 5-6 spots. I wonder if Porzingis was actually the one we were targeting considering we were rumored in really liking him if he came out in the 2014 draft instead of 2015.
I don't doubt we offered 15, 16, and a future BKN pick to a team in the lottery, and I don't doubt we were talking to Charlotte, but I do doubt that offer was made to Charlotte. Seems like a more appropriate offer to the Knicks with their 4th pick which we were also rumored in wanting at the time IIRC.
It wouldn't surprise me if something got lost in translation with all the teams Ainge was talking to in an attempt to consolidate and move up.
That isn't what Lowe says. Lowe flat out says Danny offered that to Charlotte, not that he offered it to NY (he might have, but who knows). I absolutely believe Lowe on this one because there were plenty of other reports unconnected to Lowe's that said Boston offered Charlotte one of the unprotected BKN 1st's (most assumed it was the pick that would later become Brown).
Danny is absolutely lucky that Jordan fell in love with Kaminsky and didn't make the trade.
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All time stupid "decline" of a trade by Jordan. Ainge woke up glad that it didn't happen. He got a little bit crazy with his offers. But luck is sometimes a part of GMing.
Ainge has had a lot of good moments in his career as Celtics GM but the Brooklyn Nets 'grand larceny' trade is probably going to go down as his masterpiece. That one trade enabled the Celtics to end up with Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, and Kyrie Irving today. And one more chip yet to materialize - either the Lakers or Kings 1st round pick.
Celtics are sitting pretty. And Ainge is going down as one of the greatest GMs in the league.
Btw, if Ainge's 'brain doctor' told him that Fultz wasn't a winner, guess what, the brain doctor looks correct right about now. And aren't we glad we passed on the overrated Lonzo Ball and went with Tatum instead?
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Btw, if Ainge's 'brain doctor' told him that Fultz wasn't a winner, guess what, the brain doctor looks correct right about now. And aren't we glad we passed on the overrated Lonzo Ball and went with Tatum instead?
Isn't it a bit early in their respective careers to make these sort of proclamations?
Isn't it possible to celebrate who we got without denigrating who we didn't?
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Btw, if Ainge's 'brain doctor' told him that Fultz wasn't a winner, guess what, the brain doctor looks correct right about now. And aren't we glad we passed on the overrated Lonzo Ball and went with Tatum instead?
Isn't it a bit early in their respective careers to make these sort of proclamations?
Isn't it possible to celebrate who we got without denigrating who we didn't?
its never too early to jump to a conclusion on a player at cb. ;D
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Are you saying that Tatum doesn't look like the best rookie player taken out of the top 3 in the draft when he is averaging 14 points a game, 5.5 rebounds, and 51% from 3 point land right now? I just call it like I see it. You are welcome to wait 5 years before coming to a conclusion but don't expect other people to take that long to connect the dots.
Lonzo Ball - Dead last in FG%, 3Pt%, FT% in the NBA. Gee, he's a real worldbeater, isn't he?
Markelle Fultz - can't even raise his arm to shoot jumpshots. Eventually shut down because his agent, not his team, claimed he had an injury.
I don't see a very strong case for Fultz OR Ball.
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Btw, if Ainge's 'brain doctor' told him that Fultz wasn't a winner, guess what, the brain doctor looks correct right about now. And aren't we glad we passed on the overrated Lonzo Ball and went with Tatum instead?
Isn't it a bit early in their respective careers to make these sort of proclamations?
Isn't it possible to celebrate who we got without denigrating who we didn't?
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I said this before the draft and can still see it happening. Ball will be the best player in this draft. Except one caveat after a couple of months...That is if Tatum isn't.
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Are you saying that Tatum doesn't look like the best rookie player taken out of the top 3 in the draft ...
No, I wasn't saying that.
I just call it like I see it. You are welcome to wait 5 years before coming to a conclusion ...
These are the only two choices? Proclaim a clear winner now or wait five years?
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Btw, if Ainge's 'brain doctor' told him that Fultz wasn't a winner, guess what, the brain doctor looks correct right about now. And aren't we glad we passed on the overrated Lonzo Ball and went with Tatum instead?
Isn't it a bit early in their respective careers to make these sort of proclamations?
Isn't it possible to celebrate who we got without denigrating who we didn't?
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Are you saying that Tatum doesn't look like the best rookie player taken out of the top 3 in the draft when he is averaging 14 points a game, 5.5 rebounds, and 51% from 3 point land right now? I just call it like I see it. You are welcome to wait 5 years before coming to a conclusion but don't expect other people to take that long to connect the dots.
Lonzo Ball - Dead last in FG%, 3Pt%, FT% in the NBA. Gee, he's a real worldbeater, isn't he?
Markelle Fultz - can't even raise his arm to shoot jumpshots. Eventually shut down because his agent, not his team, claimed he had an injury.
I don't see a very strong case for Fultz OR Ball.
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Btw, if Ainge's 'brain doctor' told him that Fultz wasn't a winner, guess what, the brain doctor looks correct right about now. And aren't we glad we passed on the overrated Lonzo Ball and went with Tatum instead?
Isn't it a bit early in their respective careers to make these sort of proclamations?
Isn't it possible to celebrate who we got without denigrating who we didn't?
Ball is also 8th in the league in APG and 3rd among PG's in RPG (and that includes Simmons as a PG). Ball is 7th in the league in double doubles and 3rd in the league in triple doubles. When you only look at those stats, it tells a vastly different picture of Lonzo Ball's rookie year.
My point is, you can pick out a stat here and there and use them to fit whatever narrative it is you want them to fit.
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it will be interesting to revisit all this at the end of this and also next season. by then, i think enough evidence will finally be in to make better informed opinions on this year's draft class.
waiting for that should be an easy feat for folks here at cb. ;D